Fall/Winter 2020/21 Banter Thread

[Spartman]

8 hours ago, beavis1729 said:

Appreciate your comments...I just figure that all snow lovers would get frustrated by our climo...and people could at least agree on that, with so much anger and discord in the world right now.  You and others seem to deal with our climo more maturely than I do.  I have a met degree, so I understand climo and the science behind meteorology...but what always drove me to pursue that path was a love of winter.  So, of course much of what I say on this forum doesn't make logical sense.  I'm in denial about winters here...and just can't get past it.

I'm not trolling.  What I'm trying to accomplish is to have others share in my frustration...and maybe even to share in nostalgia to talk about the great patterns of the past, and what we should be looking for to make it happen again.  That's why the NE forum is fun.  Even with some challenging personalities, there is robust discussion and remembrance of historical storms...and it's filled with hope and weenies.  That's a good thing...an escape from the modern world.

It's difficult enough being on an island in the world as a snow lover...and then to be on an island even on a snow-loving forum like this is even stranger.  When first joining this forum 10 years ago, I figured most people would be like me...but that's not what happened.

Snow & arctic cold lovers don't fit into the modern world, especially the suburban/urban Chicago metro area. This current winter, especially with Covid, is the icing on the cake.  The lack of snowfall is bad enough...but there just hasn't been any cold all winter.  Where did it go?  It just doesn't feel right.  Even if you use climo as the benchmark...ORD's normal low is around 15, and imby it's probably around 13.  We've had two days all season with a low temp colder than this.

Doesn't everyone on here not just understand the frustration...but feel it too?

Sounds like Covid cancelled Winter this year. 

[Hoosier]

7 minutes ago, mimillman said:

Minneapolis only averages 9” more per year of snow than Chicago. Lake Zurich probably cuts that in half. In most winters, the difference between Minneapolis and Chicago is negligible. This is just a particularly bad streak, and Minneapolis will get theirs soon enough.

I wonder how snowcover retention compares.  But yeah, no way that beavis would feel satisfied with Minneapolis winters.  An improvement, sure, but not the answer.

[mimillman]

8 hours ago, beavis1729 said:

Appreciate your comments...I just figure that all snow lovers would get frustrated by our climo...and people could at least agree on that, with so much anger and discord in the world right now.  You and others seem to deal with our climo more maturely than I do.  I have a met degree, so I understand climo and the science behind meteorology...but what always drove me to pursue that path was a love of winter.  So, of course much of what I say on this forum doesn't make logical sense.  I'm in denial about winters here...and just can't get past it.

I'm not trolling.  What I'm trying to accomplish is to have others share in my frustration...and maybe even to share in nostalgia to talk about the great patterns of the past, and what we should be looking for to make it happen again.  That's why the NE forum is fun.  Even with some challenging personalities, there is robust discussion and remembrance of historical storms...and it's filled with hope and weenies.  That's a good thing...an escape from the modern world.

It's difficult enough being on an island in the world as a snow lover...and then to be on an island even on a snow-loving forum like this is even stranger.  When first joining this forum 10 years ago, I figured most people would be like me...but that's not what happened.

Snow & arctic cold lovers don't fit into the modern world, especially the suburban/urban Chicago metro area. This current winter, especially with Covid, is the icing on the cake.  The lack of snowfall is bad enough...but there just hasn't been any cold all winter.  Where did it go?  It just doesn't feel right.  Even if you use climo as the benchmark...ORD's normal low is around 15, and imby it's probably around 13.  We've had two days all season with a low temp colder than this.

Doesn't everyone on here not just understand the frustration...but feel it too?

Take a look at northern hemisphere temperature anomalies. The cold is in north central Russia. It happens

.

[hardypalmguy]

I cancelled winter. Palm tree time.


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[hardypalmguy]

I cancelled winter. Palm tree time.


.

[Hoosier]

Did a quick check of snowfall stats.  Chicago has had 46 winters with less than 30" of snow, while Minneapolis has had 25.  The snowfall records go back to the same year for both cities, so over the period of record it's about 1 in 3 for Chicago and 1 in 5.5 for Minneapolis.

[mimillman]

12 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

Did a quick check of snowfall stats.  Chicago has had 46 winters with less than 30" of snow, while Minneapolis has had 25.  The snowfall records go back to the same year for both cities, so over the period of record it's about 1 in 3 for Chicago and 1 in 5.5 for Minneapolis.

That’s probably where the 9” difference comes from then. In normal or above normal snowfall years for both cities, the difference will be negligible. Chicago just has negative skew.

Curious to hear what median snowfall is?

[dmc76]

8 hours ago, beavis1729 said:

Appreciate your comments...I just figure that all snow lovers would get frustrated by our climo...and people could at least agree on that, with so much anger and discord in the world right now.  You and others seem to deal with our climo more maturely than I do.  I have a met degree, so I understand climo and the science behind meteorology...but what always drove me to pursue that path was a love of winter.  So, of course much of what I say on this forum doesn't make logical sense.  I'm in denial about winters here...and just can't get past it.

I'm not trolling.  What I'm trying to accomplish is to have others share in my frustration...and maybe even to share in nostalgia to talk about the great patterns of the past, and what we should be looking for to make it happen again.  That's why the NE forum is fun.  Even with some challenging personalities, there is robust discussion and remembrance of historical storms...and it's filled with hope and weenies.  That's a good thing...an escape from the modern world.

It's difficult enough being on an island in the world as a snow lover...and then to be on an island even on a snow-loving forum like this is even stranger.  When first joining this forum 10 years ago, I figured most people would be like me...but that's not what happened.

Snow & arctic cold lovers don't fit into the modern world, especially the suburban/urban Chicago metro area. This current winter, especially with Covid, is the icing on the cake.  The lack of snowfall is bad enough...but there just hasn't been any cold all winter.  Where did it go?  It just doesn't feel right.  Even if you use climo as the benchmark...ORD's normal low is around 15, and imby it's probably around 13.  We've had two days all season with a low temp colder than this.

Doesn't everyone on here not just understand the frustration...but feel it too?

Prolonged Winter is not a guarantee south of the 45th parallel, especially along the I-80 corridor pts south. You  haven’t seen nothing yet when I was growing up in the 80s and 90s those were some shit winters. Pretty close to this train wreck we are experiencing now and Unfortunately looking at that past. This could be like this for many seasons to come. So there’s a simple solution to all this. Pack up your bags move to Marquette Michigan even in a lesser winter they still manage to get somewhere around100 inches a year. You live only one time. Make it happen! 

[Hoosier]

32 minutes ago, mimillman said:

That’s probably where the 9” difference comes from then. In normal or above normal snowfall years for both cities, the difference will be negligible. Chicago just has negative skew.

Curious to hear what median snowfall is?

Since 1884-85...

Median snowfall for Chicago is 34.1".  Median snowfall for Minneapolis is 44.0".

[beavis1729]

1 hour ago, Hoosier said:

I wonder how snowcover retention compares.  But yeah, no way that beavis would feel satisfied with Minneapolis winters.  An improvement, sure, but not the answer.

 

1 hour ago, mimillman said:

Minneapolis only averages 9” more per year of snow than Chicago. Lake Zurich probably cuts that in half. In most winters, the difference between Minneapolis and Chicago is negligible. This is just a particularly bad streak, and Minneapolis will get theirs soon enough.

Huge difference in retention between MSP and Chicago. One example - MSP has a 70% chance of a white Christmas, Chicago around 45%. Retention difference is even greater in Jan-Feb.

I think the DJF average temp difference is about 6-7F, so more margin for error on thaws. Even greater difference outside of the MSP heat island. 

[beavis1729]

55 minutes ago, hardypalmguy said:

I cancelled winter. Palm tree time.


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Hi Cromartie. 

[Hoosier]

6 minutes ago, beavis1729 said:

 

Huge difference in retention between MSP and Chicago. One example - MSP has a 70% chance of a white Christmas, Chicago around 45%. Retention difference is even greater in Jan-Feb.

Minneapolis had 9 days with highs 40+ in DJF 2019-20.  Could you handle that?

I mean, Chicago had 35 days of highs 40+ though.  

[mimillman]

25 minutes ago, beavis1729 said:

 

Huge difference in retention between MSP and Chicago. One example - MSP has a 70% chance of a white Christmas, Chicago around 45%. Retention difference is even greater in Jan-Feb.

I think the DJF average temp difference is about 6-7F, so more margin for error on thaws. Even greater difference outside of the MSP heat island. 

In most winters, I doubt you would notice a big difference. Plus, if you move to Minneapolis, then you’ll want to move to Duluth. If you move to Duluth, then you’ll want to move to Marquette. If you move to Marquette, then you’ll want to move to Watertown. Just skip it all and move to Hokkaido. Now there’s a metropolitan area with some real snow: Sapporo, 191 inches per year with a population of 2 million

[hlcater]

6 minutes ago, mimillman said:

In most winters, I doubt you would notice a big difference. Plus, if you move to Minneapolis, then you’ll want to move to Duluth. If you move to Duluth, then you’ll want to move to Marquette. If you move to Marquette, then you’ll want to move to Watertown. Just skip it all and move to Hokkaido. Now there’s a metropolitan area with some real snow: Sapporo, 191 inches per year with a population of 2 million

Sapporo is weak sauce for Hokkaido standards too. Portions of the island exceed 500"/yr.

[mimillman]

Just now, hlcater said:

Sapporo is weak sauce for Hokkaido standards too. Portions of the island exceed 500"/yr.

Snowiest place in the world. Sh*t gets real there.

A weenie can dream...

[hlcater]

10 minutes ago, mimillman said:

Snowiest place in the world. Sh*t gets real there.

A weenie can dream...

I bet they're not worried about flake size or an 850mb warm nose, particularly considering where their air aloft comes from.

[dmc76]

1 hour ago, mimillman said:

In most winters, I doubt you would notice a big difference. Plus, if you move to Minneapolis, then you’ll want to move to Duluth. If you move to Duluth, then you’ll want to move to Marquette. If you move to Marquette, then you’ll want to move to Watertown. Just skip it all and move to Hokkaido. Now there’s a metropolitan area with some real snow: Sapporo, 191 inches per year with a population of 2 million

The perfect realistic major city area to live for snowfall and prolonged winter is Montreal or Ottawa Canada. Quebec City is another place but I think it’s a metropolitan of 700,000 people at the most. That is even better place. 

[dmc76]

58 minutes ago, hlcater said:

Sapporo is weak sauce for Hokkaido standards too. Portions of the island exceed 500"/yr.

Weenie cam 

[hardypalmguy]

Hi Cromartie. 

You miss cromartie?


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[luckyweather]

Sapporo is weak sauce for Hokkaido standards too. Portions of the island exceed 500"/yr.

always been a dream to go to Hokkaido and ski the famous japow

[mimillman]

34 minutes ago, dmc76 said:

The perfect realistic major city area to live for snowfall and prolonged winter is Montreal or Ottawa Canada. Quebec City is another place but I think it’s a metropolitan of 700,000 people at the most. That is even better place. 

Why is Sapporo unrealistic?

[dmc76]

14 minutes ago, mimillman said:

Why is Sapporo unrealistic?

It’s very far away. I just figure it’s easier to relocate in North America versus Japan 

Sapporo would be my pick. Better sustained winters if I had to move to Japan

[A-L-E-K]

agree with the japan takes, obv the best fantasy location for snow lovers who enjoy people and things as well as snow

[A-L-E-K]

Thinking of becoming a palm tree guy now, where do I start?

[OrdIowPitMsp]

Minneapolis average annual snowfall is 54" so I'm not sure where this 9" greater then Chicago is coming from, unless we are talking about median. 

Here is annual snowfall over the past 10 seasons. Yes we've had some big time clunkers but the retention is a much greater here then in the Chicagoland area. Also worth noting Minneapolis averages about 8" less of liquid equivalent precipitation so our climate is drier by comparison. 

 

2019-2020													51.5
2018-2019													77.1
2017-2018													78.3
2016-2017													32.0
2015-2016													36.7
2014-2015													32.4
2013-2014													69.8
2012-2013													67.7
2011-2012													22.3
2010-2011													86.6

 

AVERAGE NUMBER OF DAYS     
* WITH SNOW "ON GROUND"
*     ---------------       
*     DAYS    INCHES       
*      100 ...  1           
*       79 ...  3           
*       54 ...  6          
*       34 ...  9           
*       24 ... 12     

[OrdIowPitMsp]

[OrdIowPitMsp]

I'd still rather live up in Two Harbors with @Brian D or in one of the snow belts, but coming from the Chicagoland area, MSP was a massive improvement in prolonged winter conditions.

[Chicago Storm]

Thinking of becoming a palm tree guy now, where do I start?

sabal minor.


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[mimillman]

16 minutes ago, OrdIowPitMsp said:

Minneapolis average annual snowfall is 54" so I'm not sure where this 9" greater then Chicago is coming from, unless we are talking about median. 

Here is annual snowfall over the past 10 seasons. Yes we've had some big time clunkers but the retention is a much greater here then in the Chicagoland area. Also worth noting Minneapolis averages about 8" less of liquid equivalent precipitation so our climate is drier by comparison. 

 

2019-2020													51.5
2018-2019													77.1
2017-2018													78.3
2016-2017													32.0
2015-2016													36.7
2014-2015													32.4
2013-2014													69.8
2012-2013													67.7
2011-2012													22.3
2010-2011													86.6

 

AVERAGE NUMBER OF DAYS     
* WITH SNOW "ON GROUND"
*     ---------------       
*     DAYS    INCHES       
*      100 ...  1           
*       79 ...  3           
*       54 ...  6          
*       34 ...  9           
*       24 ... 12     

Where’d you get 54”? Maybe its a data window thing.

Let me google that for you...

[madwx]

Honestly you just need to move up to Madison, we've had snow cover since December 12, average 51" of snow per year.  Just enough torches to keep things interesting.