October 2020 General Discussion

[beavis1729]

2 hours ago, Hoosier said:

How's this for a stat.

The high at ORD on Monday was 39. Today's high was 38.

It is the first time since 1930 that there have been 2 sub-40 degree highs in October.  It also happened on back to back days in that year (Oct 18 and 19).

Interesting, and very surprising. 

[Snowstorms]

YYZ has yet to break the freezing mark this month thanks to persistent cloud cover. Since last week we've had only 2 sunny days, one being today lol. The caveats of living in the Great Lakes region. As of yesterday, YYZ is running 0.8C above avg. These next 4 days should bring us to within normal to close out the month. 

I'm not sure if Michigan or New York are planning on getting rid of daylight savings. Here in Ontario, once it's been approved by the court, we will get rid of it but only if the surrounding states and Quebec follow through. Time change is useless.

[Hoosier]

In Indiana there are still people who are mad about the entire state switching to daylight savings time about 15 years ago.  Dead serious.

[Torchageddon]

1 hour ago, Snowstorms said:

I'm not sure if Michigan or New York are planning on getting rid of daylight savings. Here in Ontario, once it's been approved by the court, we will get rid of it but only if the surrounding states and Quebec follow through. Time change is useless.

I was disappointed to hear that surrounding states need to do the same, I pray they do.

44 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

In Indiana there are still people who are mad about the entire state switching to daylight savings time about 15 years ago.  Dead serious.

If you mean started DST 15 years ago then I'd be mad still too.

The 12z Euro at 240 hours is popping something good on the 500 mb map. If I manage to get to 68ºF with sun then I'd say that would be a good Nov day. 

[Stebo]

1 hour ago, Hoosier said:

In Indiana there are still people who are mad about the entire state switching to daylight savings time about 15 years ago.  Dead serious.

I would love to stay on DST forever.

[slow poke]

We had rain/snow mix for a few hours yesterday afternoon, nothing stuck. Looking forward to a little warm up in a week or so, still have lots of outdoor stuff to get done before the weather gets cold. 

[michsnowfreak]

After a cloudy chilly week, not a cloud in the sky today. 

[Snowstorms]

18 hours ago, Hoosier said:

In Indiana there are still people who are mad about the entire state switching to daylight savings time about 15 years ago.  Dead serious.

I would be too. DST is useless. Whether the clock moves ahead one hour or back one hour, you can't change the orbital cycle of the Earth. The days will get longer or shorter regardless of that one-hour change. 

[etudiant]

27 minutes ago, Snowstorms said:

I would be too. DST is useless. Whether the clock moves ahead one hour or back one hour, you can't change the orbital cycle of the Earth. The days will get longer or shorter regardless of that one-hour change. 

Quite true and the desire appears to be there to get rid of DST, but it seems to take forever to get any actual progress.

[beavis1729]

2 hours ago, etudiant said:

Quite true and the desire appears to be there to get rid of DST, but it seems to take forever to get any actual progress.

I actually like the time change, at least IMBY on the far eastern end of the central time zone.  Of course it would be simpler logistically to keep the same time throughout the year...but I take a certain comfort in seeing the very early sunsets in Nov/Dec (before 5 PM).  If we were on daylight savings all year, these sunsets would be after 5 PM, and it wouldn't feel like winter.  On the other hand, if we switched to standard time all year, June sunsets would only be around 7:30 PM (which wouldn't feel like the "long summer days"), instead of the current 8:30 PM.

Just my 2 cents, but of course personal preference depends on latitude, location within the time zone, etc.

[Snowstorms]

1 hour ago, beavis1729 said:

I actually like the time change, at least IMBY on the far eastern end of the central time zone.  Of course it would be simpler logistically to keep the same time throughout the year...but I take a certain comfort in seeing the very early sunsets in Nov/Dec (before 5 PM).  If we were on daylight savings all year, these sunsets would be after 5 PM, and it wouldn't feel like winter.  On the other hand, if we switched to standard time all year, June sunsets would only be around 7:30 PM (which wouldn't feel like the "long summer days"), instead of the current 8:30 PM.

Just my 2 cents, but of course personal preference depends on latitude, location within the time zone, etc.

Time is nothing but a subconscious construct of the reality around us. And that reality is based on things out of our control, i.e. Earth's orbit around the Sun or our axial tilt. We're giving ourselves a false impression of real time by adding or subtracting an hour twice a year. That hour won't change the weather you live through or impact the seasons we experience. Days will get shorter or longer whether you like it or not. We created this illusion of time to give ourselves additional "daylight" where it counts but the Earth's rotation and orbital cycle is as is. Hence, why it’s useless to continue to allude to this illusion. 

[beavis1729]

4 hours ago, Snowstorms said:

Time is nothing but a subconscious construct of the reality around us. And that reality is based on things out of our control, i.e. Earth's orbit around the Sun or our axial tilt. We're giving ourselves a false impression of real time by adding or subtracting an hour twice a year. That hour won't change the weather you live through or impact the seasons we experience. Days will get shorter or longer whether you like it or not. We created this illusion of time to give ourselves additional "daylight" where it counts but the Earth's rotation and orbital cycle is as is. Hence, why it’s useless to continue to allude to this illusion. 

Yes, of course it doesn't change anything from a technical standpoint...but it's more psychological than anything.  And that matters to some people. 

Not saying you need to share the same point of view...but for me, it's very important to have an "early" sunset in winter.  If it got dark at 5:20 instead of 4:20 in mid-December, then of course it has no impact on the weather. or total daylight...but it would bother me a lot.  It just "feels" more like deep dark Currier and Ives winter with an earlier sunset...because that's what I grew up with.  Yes, time is just a construct...but many people have emotional connections to things like this, because they form memories. I would be very upset if our sunset was after 5:00 in mid-December.   

Total daylight is about 9 hours 6 minutes on the winter solstice here (7:13 AM - 4:19 PM CST).  If we had daylight savings all year, it would be 8:13 AM - 5:19 PM...yuck.

[madwx]

1 hour ago, beavis1729 said:

Yes, of course it doesn't change anything from a technical standpoint...but it's more psychological than anything.  And that matters to some people. 

Not saying you need to share the same point of view...but for me, it's very important to have an "early" sunset in winter.  If it got dark at 5:20 instead of 4:20 in mid-December, then of course it has no impact on the weather. or total daylight...but it would bother me a lot.  It just "feels" more like deep dark Currier and Ives winter with an earlier sunset...because that's what I grew up with.  Yes, time is just a construct...but many people have emotional connections to things like this, because they form memories. I would be very upset if our sunset was after 5:00 in mid-December.   

Total daylight is about 9 hours 6 minutes on the winter solstice here (7:13 AM - 4:19 PM CST).  If we had daylight savings all year, it would be 8:13 AM - 5:19 PM...yuck.

Counterpoint would be those 415 AM sunrises during the summer without DST. 

[beavis1729]

33 minutes ago, madwx said:

Counterpoint would be those 415 AM sunrises during the summer without DST. 

Right, I agree...which is why I think the current system of DST during spring and summer works well. It makes our June sunrise around 5:15 AM which, while still too early in my opinion, is at least tolerable. 

[sbnwx85]

On 10/28/2020 at 4:01 PM, Hoosier said:

In Indiana there are still people who are mad about the entire state switching to daylight savings time about 15 years ago.  Dead serious.

Count me as one of those people. Back in my day you set the time once and you were done! I liked being on Central Time in the summer and Eastern Time in the winter. 

Okay, I'm not really mad...but still slightly annoyed. I've since come to embrace my 9:30 sunsets in the summer. 

[SchaumburgStormer]

15 hours ago, beavis1729 said:

Yes, of course it doesn't change anything from a technical standpoint...but it's more psychological than anything.  And that matters to some people. 

Not saying you need to share the same point of view...but for me, it's very important to have an "early" sunset in winter.  If it got dark at 5:20 instead of 4:20 in mid-December, then of course it has no impact on the weather. or total daylight...but it would bother me a lot.  It just "feels" more like deep dark Currier and Ives winter with an earlier sunset...because that's what I grew up with.  Yes, time is just a construct...but many people have emotional connections to things like this, because they form memories. I would be very upset if our sunset was after 5:00 in mid-December.   

Total daylight is about 9 hours 6 minutes on the winter solstice here (7:13 AM - 4:19 PM CST).  If we had daylight savings all year, it would be 8:13 AM - 5:19 PM...yuck.

Being a lifelong Illinois resident, I remember being so confused the first time I traveled to the southern Caribbean during the summer and the sun set at 5:30pm. I had no concept that latitude/daylight savings time pushed our sunset back so far during the summer months. 

[OrdIowPitMsp]

I always felt growing up in Chicagoland we got shafted being on the eastern edge of a time zone because in the summer we’d have these early sunrises and “relatively” early sunsets. Works out better being further west in Iowa or Minnesota. 

[beavis1729]

Coldest temp of the season IMBY this morning, 27.

ORD hit 31, tying for the coldest of the season so far.

[Winter Man]

1 hour ago, OrdIowPitMsp said:

I always felt growing up in Chicagoland we got shafted being on the eastern edge of a time zone because in the summer we’d have these early sunrises and “relatively” early sunsets. Works out better being further west in Iowa or Minnesota. 

Yeah, I can't understand why anyone from Illinois would want DST. It would be terrible in the summer.

[Snownado]

17 hours ago, beavis1729 said:

Yes, of course it doesn't change anything from a technical standpoint...but it's more psychological than anything.  And that matters to some people. 

Not saying you need to share the same point of view...but for me, it's very important to have an "early" sunset in winter.  If it got dark at 5:20 instead of 4:20 in mid-December, then of course it has no impact on the weather. or total daylight...but it would bother me a lot.  It just "feels" more like deep dark Currier and Ives winter with an earlier sunset...because that's what I grew up with.  Yes, time is just a construct...but many people have emotional connections to things like this, because they form memories. I would be very upset if our sunset was after 5:00 in mid-December.   

Total daylight is about 9 hours 6 minutes on the winter solstice here (7:13 AM - 4:19 PM CST).  If we had daylight savings all year, it would be 8:13 AM - 5:19 PM...yuck.

That's very close to the times for Indy on the Winter Solstice (802-522). The sunrise today is around 810 !

[Snowstorms]

1 hour ago, Snownado said:

That's very close to the times for Indy on the Winter Solstice (802-522). The sunrise today is around 810 !

Our Winter Solstice is (750-442). Total daylight on our shortest day is 8 hours and 55 minutes. Now if you consider our possible sunshine percentage, the Sun only comes out 28%, 30% and 37% in DJF, respectively. Worst climo. If March was the last time change, then in the winter the Sun would rise close to 9am but ultimately set at 5:40pm. Which is good especially for all those Vitamin D deficient people haha. 

Time change is purely psychological and hence imo, it's useless because it serves no other purpose. 

[Snownado]

48 minutes ago, Snowstorms said:

Our Winter Solstice is (750-442). Total daylight on our shortest day is 8 hours and 55 minutes. Now if you consider our possible sunshine percentage, the Sun only comes out 28%, 30% and 37% in DJF, respectively. Worst climo. If March was the last time change, then in the winter the Sun would rise close to 9am but ultimately set at 5:40pm. Which is good especially for all those Vitamin D deficient people haha. 

Time change is purely psychological and hence imo, it's useless because it serves no other purpose. 

I bet you have endless cloudy days in the winter. What's the longest you've gone without seeing the sun ?

[WestMichigan]

14 minutes ago, Snownado said:

I bet you have endless cloudy days in the winter. What's the longest you've gone without seeing the sun ?

Not sure about Toronto, but Grand Rapids has seen a record 16 consecutive days with several 15's right behind it.  The Great Lakes are good for creating clouds.

[Snownado]

Just now, WestMichigan said:

Not sure about Toronto, but Grand Rapids has seen a record 16 consecutive days with several 15's right behind it.  The Great Lakes are good for creating clouds.

Heck even down in KY and TN they get a lot of cloudy weather in the winter. Surely the Great Lakes don't impact weather that far south ?

[Snowstorms]

28 minutes ago, Snownado said:

I bet you have endless cloudy days in the winter. What's the longest you've gone without seeing the sun ?

In the winter we can go a week without the Sun easily. Then it'll come out for a day and not come out again for another week. The longest I can remember was in Jan 2017 and Feb 2008 where we went 2 weeks without the Sun. Heck even in the last 2 weeks, we've only had 3 or 4 sunny days. If you ever plan to come up this way, don't come in the winter lol. 

[Snownado]

42 minutes ago, Snowstorms said:

In the winter we can go a week without the Sun easily. Then it'll come out for a day and not come out again for another week. The longest I can remember was in Jan 2017 and Feb 2008 where we went 2 weeks without the Sun. Heck even in the last 2 weeks, we've only had 3 or 4 sunny days. If you ever plan to come up this way, don't come in the winter lol. 

On the flip side i bet summers are beautiful there.

[Spartman]

3 hours ago, Snowstorms said:

In the winter we can go a week without the Sun easily. Then it'll come out for a day and not come out again for another week. The longest I can remember was in Jan 2017 and Feb 2008 where we went 2 weeks without the Sun. Heck even in the last 2 weeks, we've only had 3 or 4 sunny days. If you ever plan to come up this way, don't come in the winter lol. 

What about the stretch that many of us experienced this past January into the beginning of February this year or a record-long stretch that happened in late December 1991 through much of the first third of January 1992? About the latter period, Dayton was without any sun from December 28, 1991 to January 7, 1992 while Chicago was without any sun from December 29, 1991 to January 9, 1992, not to mention that the Twin Cities also was without any sun from December 26, 1991 to January 8, 1992. Overcast streaks occuring for at least 120 hours (5 days) are persistent low overcast events (PLOEs). They normally occur slightly more often than once every two years.

[Snowstorms]

32 minutes ago, Spartman said:

What about the stretch that many of us experienced this past January into the beginning of February this year or a record-long stretch that happened in late December 1991 through much of the first third of January 1992? About the latter period, Dayton was without any sun from December 28, 1991 to January 7, 1992 while Chicago was without any sun from December 29, 1991 to January 9, 1992, not to mention that the Twin Cities also was without any sun from December 26, 1991 to January 8, 1992. Overcast streaks occuring for at least 120 hours (5 days) are persistent low overcast events (PLOEs). They normally occur slightly more often than once every two years.

I was born in 1994 so 1991-92 is before my time.   That's a long stretch and certainly a depressing way to ring in the new year. The February 2008 stretch is by far one of the longest I vividly remember. See below. 15 straight days of cloud and precipitation. The only time we saw some clear skies in this stretch was late in the evening or at night. If the 16th wasn't sunny it would've lasted 19 days lol. On the plus side most of it was snow during that stretch and over 25" of it. 

https://bit.ly/3mI05qH 

 

[michsnowfreak]

Long stretches of overcast are pretty typical in the Great Lakes. Justvlast winter we went from Jan 21 til Feb 1 with no sun.

[michsnowfreak]

gorgeous crisp Halloween. Peak last about 2 weeks this year, unusually long, but leaves are falling fast. Low at DTW 29F