NNE Cold Season Thread 2020-2021

[backedgeapproaching]

34 minutes ago, klw said:

light dusting here.

I was shocked this morning as I had to go down to town first thing..  The snow cover was the opposite of normal.  The lower I went in elevation the more snow had survived the Christmas melt.  I guess cold air must have been trapped lower while we got the warmth.  It was an odd surprise to see a few inches of glacier in town while even our woods were scoured clean.

 

Seems to happen from time to time. Couple years ago I drove over to Dartmouth from here and a bad cutter had just gone through the previous couple days.  Exposed areas around 2k near Bromley/Peru were bare with patches.  Got down to Chester VT (700ft -ish) and they had a 10-12" glacier. Definitely was surprising to see.

[J.Spin]

22 hours ago, wxeyeNH said:

Phin....take note of the light snow you just had after the cutter.  Alex, you and the Vermont gang just about always will end up white again, even after warm storms. 

 

22 hours ago, PhineasC said:

Yup, it’s been great here today, even if it was just the leftovers after J Spin and PF vacuumed most of it up.  

The Greens do tend to steal from that plentiful supply of Great Lakes moisture before the Whites can get their share.  With that flow off Lake Ontario, I’m still not sure why the Adirondacks don’t try to stop us?

[STILL N OF PIKE]

1 hour ago, J.Spin said:

 

The Greens do tend to steal from that plentiful supply of Great Lakes moisture before the Whites can get their share.  With that flow off Lake Ontario, I’m still not sure why the Adirondacks don’t try to stop us?

 

Do adirondacks tend to steal the snow in these set ups for folks South of Waterbury, VT (in greens )

[alex]

2 hours ago, backedgeapproaching said:

Seems to happen from time to time. Couple years ago I drove over to Dartmouth from here and a bad cutter had just gone through the previous couple days.  Exposed areas around 2k near Bromley/Peru were bare with patches.  Got down to Chester VT (700ft -ish) and they had a 10-12" glacier. Definitely was surprising to see.

That actually happens quite a bit here after a cutter. Snowpack in areas down the notch and even down in Bartlett or Conway tends to survive much better. It’s usually very little loss down there but it looks like crap from the rain, vs a big loss here but it looks much better from the few inches of follow-up upslope

[PhineasC]

Definitely did not expect to be outside grilling at the end of December. 

[MaineJayhawk]

26 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

Definitely did not expect to be outside grilling at the end of December. 

Haha .. I grill all year long.

[mreaves]

40 minutes ago, MaineJayhawk said:

Haha .. I grill all year long.

I just find my grill uses too much gas when it's cold.  I have a decent Weber only a couple of years old too.

[wxeyeNH]

5 hours ago, backedgeapproaching said:

Seems to happen from time to time. Couple years ago I drove over to Dartmouth from here and a bad cutter had just gone through the previous couple days.  Exposed areas around 2k near Bromley/Peru were bare with patches.  Got down to Chester VT (700ft -ish) and they had a 10-12" glacier. Definitely was surprising to see.

The cutter's south wind wiped my pastures clean.  Very little snow up here at 1100 feet.  If I drive down my hill to Newfound Lake level at 580 feet the ground is mostly snow covered.  Took much longer to mix out down blow and the warm moist south wind was not as strong. 

[dendrite]

A little black ice out there tonight.

32/31

[J.Spin]

3 hours ago, STILL N OF PIKE said:

Do the Adirondacks tend to steal the snow in these set ups for folks South of Waterbury, VT (in greens )

I haven’t heard of specific shadowing of Great Lakes moisture anywhere along the spine of the Greens, and I know the Southern Greens can catch some nice snowfall with the right flow (I think that snow that backedge reported on the other day might have been from the lakes?)

With respect to Adirondack-based shadowing up here in the north, the thoughts about the Northern Greens doing notably better than the Central Greens on northwest flow has always made sense.  If you look at the image below, you can see that NW winds just skirt past the Adirondacks to hit the Northern Greens, but the Central and Southern Greens would be shadowed.  For reference on the relief map, if you look at the northern part of the Green Mountains, you’ll see two big stripes of green cutting through them.  The top one is the Lamoille Valley, and the second one down is the Winooski Valley, which marks the boundary between the Northern and Central Greens.

I’ve just always been surprised that we can still catch that Lake Ontario moisture on the 255-260° wind that brings it here into the Northern Greens.  That wind has to pass right over the Adirondacks, and even the High Peaks area for the more southern parts of the Northern Greens.  It’s as if the more rounded shape of the Adirondacks range lets the moisture get around the peaks easily, but the Greens don’t let much of it pass because they form a long spine and there’s just nowhere for the air to go but up.

[bwt3650]

Man is that snow level close..went out to get beer down in Montgomery and it’s rain and 37.  Snow didn’t start back up until about 1500’.  Light snow currently.  Not sure tonight is going to be a big upslope winner. 

[jculligan]

Picked up 0.4" of new snow today. Would be negligible with an existing snowpack, but since we were previously bare it's nice to see a whitened ground again. Looks like another opportunity (locally) Thursday morning, then of course we wait to see what the weekend will bring.

[backedgeapproaching]

1 hour ago, J.Spin said:

I haven’t heard of specific shadowing of Great Lakes moisture anywhere along the spine of the Greens, and I know the Southern Greens can catch some nice snowfall with the right flow (I think that snow that backedge reported on the other day might have been from the lakes?)

 

With respect to Adirondack-based shadowing up here in the north, the thoughts about the Northern Greens doing notably better than the Central Greens on northwest flow has always made sense.  If you look at the image below, you can see that NW winds just skirt past the Adirondacks to hit the Northern Greens, but the Central and Southern Greens would be shadowed.  For reference on the relief map, if you look at the northern part of the Green Mountains, you’ll see two big stripes of green cutting through them.  The top one is the Lamoille Valley, and the second one down is the Winooski Valley, which marks the boundary between the Northern and Central Greens.

 

I’ve just always been surprised that we can still catch that Lake Ontario moisture on the 255-260° wind that brings it here into the Northern Greens.  That wind has to pass right over the Adirondacks, and even the High Peaks area for the more southern parts of the Northern Greens.  It’s as if the more rounded shape of the Adirondacks range lets the moisture get around the peaks easily, but the Greens don’t let much of it pass because they form a long spine and there’s just nowhere for the air to go but up.

 

Nice write up JSpin.  The NW upslope has always made sense like you point out because of that long fetch of flat terrain in Southern Canada  Talk about just perfect geological luck, only a nice fat Ontario size lake in southern Canada would make lol worthy in terms of snowfall. 

But I also don't get the Lake Ontario connection and how it can produce so well.  It has to pass that long stretch of higher terrain in the ADKs. Maybe its just the rounded nature like you said or the CPV is wide enough there to downslope of the ADKs and then upslope back over the Northern Green's?  Certainly interesting.

We get Ontario scraps down here also for sure.  Again, nothing like up there-- Inch or two here and there, occasionally little more than that.

[powderfreak]

30 minutes ago, bwt3650 said:

Man is that snow level close..went out to get beer down in Montgomery and it’s rain and 37.  Snow didn’t start back up until about 1500’.  Light snow currently.  Not sure tonight is going to be a big upslope winner. 

Yeah we have light rain in town but light snow is falling up the road.  Great snowball snow tonight as the fluff has compacted to 2-3” of wet snow now...my dog loves chasing snow balls.  Good replacement for a tennis ball.

[LaGrangewx]

1 hour ago, J.Spin said:

I haven’t heard of specific shadowing of Great Lakes moisture anywhere along the spine of the Greens, and I know the Southern Greens can catch some nice snowfall with the right flow (I think that snow that backedge reported on the other day might have been from the lakes?)

 

With respect to Adirondack-based shadowing up here in the north, the thoughts about the Northern Greens doing notably better than the Central Greens on northwest flow has always made sense.  If you look at the image below, you can see that NW winds just skirt past the Adirondacks to hit the Northern Greens, but the Central and Southern Greens would be shadowed.  For reference on the relief map, if you look at the northern part of the Green Mountains, you’ll see two big stripes of green cutting through them.  The top one is the Lamoille Valley, and the second one down is the Winooski Valley, which marks the boundary between the Northern and Central Greens.

 

I’ve just always been surprised that we can still catch that Lake Ontario moisture on the 255-260° wind that brings it here into the Northern Greens.  That wind has to pass right over the Adirondacks, and even the High Peaks area for the more southern parts of the Northern Greens.  It’s as if the more rounded shape of the Adirondacks range lets the moisture get around the peaks easily, but the Greens don’t let much of it pass because they form a long spine and there’s just nowhere for the air to go but up.

 

I know Whiteface can do extremely well with certain lake effect connections. Gore on the other hand almost never gets In on it as it seems to have trouble getting past the mountains west of Indian lake. I think the high peaks region actually gets a lot of lake effect and snow in general it’s just not documented well. So I don’t think the greens necessarily steal the adk snow rather than its impressive that they still cash in while the Adk’s are getting some as well.  Also from that map it’s so evident how the northern greens have incredible topography for NW upslope. It must be like every nor’easter Has to be treated as a 2 part storm up there 

[dendrite]

The Tug Hill rings out a lot of moisture before it hits the southern Dacks. There's probably not much left when it reaches the southern Greens. Those 250° northern Lake Ontario plumes can skirt around the Tug. Maybe there's a tiny bit of additional moisture flux feeding into it off of Champlain before it reaches the northern Greens too?

I'll have to watch the low/mid level high res RH more during these upslope/LES events that reach VT.

[backedgeapproaching]

13 minutes ago, dendrite said:

The Tug Hill rings out a lot of moisture before it hits the southern Dacks. There's probably not much left when it reaches the southern Greens. Those 250° northern Lake Ontario plumes can skirt around the Tug. Maybe there's a tiny bit of additional moisture flux feeding into it off of Champlain before it reaches the northern Greens too?

I'll have to watch the low/mid level high res RH more during these upslope/LES events that reach VT.

If you look at that map, the Mohawk Valley west of ALB actually can do pretty well on Lake effect streamers--it's pretty wide open to the lake(no peaks in the way)and moisture squeezes through the valley when the wind direction is correct with enough moisture. I've noticed it on radar over the past 5-6 years where a skinny band develops there.

[alex]

A bonus round of snow falling

[J.Spin]

1 hour ago, powderfreak said:

Yeah we have light rain in town but light snow is falling up the road.  Great snowball snow tonight as the fluff has compacted to 2-3” of wet snow now...my dog loves chasing snow balls.  Good replacement for a tennis ball.

Similar to what you’re seeing, it’s just a touch too warm down here at 500’ for the snow to accumulate much, but we actually did get a round of accumulation a little while back when the precipitation was more intense and graupel came down.  Temperatures are supposed to drop off substantially tonight, so within the next couple of hours even the valleys should be able to accumulate whatever snow falls after that point.

[#NoPoles]

I kinda feel responsible for the crap winter last year, and this year...I spent the previous years reading Alex's posts and being amazed by his pics. I make the move up here, and BLAM, instantaneous regression!

[bwt3650]

Starting to snow moderately again..looks like a decent band, better down towards Mansfield.  Maybe a quick inch or two tonight. 

[J.Spin]

Event totals: 0.7” Snow/0.02” L.E.

 

Accumulations are starting to pick up again with the dropping temperatures this evening, so we’ll see what the overnight brings.

 

Details from the 12:00 A.M. Waterbury observations:

New Snow: 0.2 inches

New Liquid: Trace

Temperature: 34.7 F

Sky: Light Snow (1 to 3 mm flakes)

Snow at the stake: 1.0 inches

[powderfreak]

A few tenths overnight in town but 3” on the upper mountain in the snow belt.  About 1.5” at 1500ft.  Snow cam looks like it happened fast.

 

[alex]

Woke up to a random 2” of unexpected snow!

[Hitman]

An inch plus overnight.  19f.

[J.Spin]

Event totals: 1.2” Snow/0.05” L.E.

 

We’re partly cloudy at this point, so it looks like the above totals are the final numbers for this system.  It looks like the next system is anticipated to come into the area tomorrow afternoon/evening.

 

Details from the 6:00 A.M. Waterbury observations:

New Snow: 0.5 inches

New Liquid: 0.03 inches

Snow/Water Ratio: 16.7

Snow Density: 6.0% H2O

Temperature: 20.3 F

Sky: Partly Cloudy

Snow at the stake: 1.5 inches

[J.Spin]

9 hours ago, #NoPoles said:

I kinda feel responsible for the crap winter last year, and this year...I spent the previous years reading Alex's posts and being amazed by his pics. I make the move up here, and BLAM, instantaneous regression!

That sentiment really doesn’t match the data for last season though – both my site and Alex’s site recorded 140-150” of snowfall, and Phin’s site was over 200”!  I think SDD were below average in general, but it’s really hard to call it a crap season with those numbers.

We’re currently ahead of average snowfall for this season right now at our site.  I’m sure SDD are again below average, but it’s still hard to define it as a crap winter…  especially with 4 to 5 months of winter still to go around here.

[Ginx snewx]

Beautiful Sunday River web cam

[alex]

6 minutes ago, J.Spin said:

That sentiment really doesn’t match the data for last season though – both my site and Alex’s site recorded 140-150” of snowfall, and Phin’s site was over 200”!  I think SDD were below average in general, but it’s really hard to call it a crap season with those numbers.

We’re currently ahead of average snowfall for this season right now at our site.  I’m sure SDD are again below average, but it’s still hard to define it as a crap winter…  especially with 4 to 5 months of winter still to go around here.

My perception of last season was that it was a lot of cutters, but unlike this last cutter, they still mostly resulted in a net gain - similar to how the "thing" coming up this weekend is currently forecasted. So while it wasn't a nice straight mostly snow series of storms, and not a ton of upslope, we did get a decent amount of synoptic even if it was punctuated by rain. Of course, it seemed like a downer compared to the previous season, when glades were open by Thanksgiving and stayed open till closing day

[J.Spin]

11 hours ago, dendrite said:

Maybe there's a tiny bit of additional moisture flux feeding into it off of Champlain before it reaches the northern Greens too?

The general thought is that while those fetches are clearly too short across Lake Champlain to fire off pure LES, we’ve always figured that having an additional body of water there certainly can’t hurt.  There’s no doubt that having that additional moisture present (whenever the lake isn’t frozen) is only going to make a positive contribution by at least helping keep the air heading into the mountains as saturated as possible.  It’s a great point to bring up though, because on the map you can see that winds from both those trajectories have to pass over Champlain before hitting the Northern Greens.