NNE Cold Season Thread 2020-2021

[PhineasC]

10 minutes ago, #NoPoles said:

I can imagine PF or JSpin getting bored at Bretton Woods...well, maybe not bored because they are very good at appreciating all different experiences. BW def has long groomers and a perfect slope to entertain the majority of skiing abilities on the bell curve. But for skiers who def ski expert and beyond, I can see BW being on the tame side. I remember skiing with SkiMRG at Berkshire East. This dude drops out of helicopters in AK...he would just ski off into the woods even if it wasn't actually a trail and find some random drop or rock ledge to shoot off of. Those skiers don't find much enjoyment in long intermediate groomers

I nearly had a breakdown driving up the auto road so they can keep the helicopters, thank you very much. Not for me. 

[ORH_wxman]

31 minutes ago, #NoPoles said:

I can imagine PF or JSpin getting bored at Bretton Woods...well, maybe not bored because they are very good at appreciating all different experiences. BW def has long groomers and a perfect slope to entertain the majority of skiing abilities on the bell curve. But for skiers who def ski expert and beyond, I can see BW being on the tame side. I remember skiing with SkiMRG at Berkshire East. This dude drops out of helicopters in AK...he would just ski off into the woods even if it wasn't actually a trail and find some random drop or rock ledge to shoot off of. Those skiers don't find much enjoyment in long intermediate groomers

BW has a few decent pitches, but yeah, I’d get bored there probably if I skied it several days in a row....esp if it’s a cloudy/low ceiling day where you lose the spectacular views that mountain gives. 

But I love doing the occasional cruiser day up there. I’ll go there anytime on one of those March/April corn snow days where you get snow-blinded if you take your goggles off. I love those days. MWN looks like this bright white menace against the blue sky on those types of days. 

Cannon/Wildcat are def way gnarlier. They have some sick terrain. 

Ill eventually get over to powderfreak’s mountain. I just haven’t done Stowe yet for whatever reason over the years. By far the biggest name mountain I haven’t done in New England. I’ve done Bolton valley nearby and then Jay Peak a few times. 

[PhineasC]

12 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

BW has a few decent pitches, but yeah, I’d get bored there probably if I skied it several days in a row....esp if it’s a cloudy/low ceiling day where you lose the spectacular views that mountain gives. 

But I love doing the occasional cruiser day up there. I’ll go there anytime on one of those March/April corn snow days where you get snow-blinded if you take your goggles off. I love those days. MWN looks like this bright white menace against the blue sky on those types of days. 

Cannon/Wildcat are def way gnarlier. They have some sick terrain. 

Ill eventually get over to powderfreak’s mountain. I just haven’t done Stowe yet for whatever reason over the years. By far the biggest name mountain I haven’t done in New England. I’ve done Bolton valley nearby and then Jay Peak a few times. 

We ski five days a week most weeks, sometimes four. LOL

[ORH_wxman]

2 hours ago, PhineasC said:

We ski five days a week most weeks, sometimes four. LOL

Bored is a relative term in the context I used it. I’d rather get “bored” skiing a mountain than most other activities. I’d still be happy as a pig in shit. 

[Ginx snewx]

3 hours ago, ORH_wxman said:

Bored is a relative term in the context I used it. I’d rather get “bored” skiing a mountain than most other activities. I’d still be happy as a pig in shit. 

Totally understand what you mean. I would give anything to be able to be " bored" again. BW was always on the list of must visits during the year. Really is fun and the views, wow.

[backedgeapproaching]

Congrats Moose fart zone.

 

[alex]

For those who get "bored" of groomers (which honestly, I do too after a while), the key is to stick with the glades. A friend of mine hated BW until he did the glades, and the first day he did the glades at the end of the day he said he thought that was one of the most fun days of skiing he'd had (he's typically a Sugarbush skier). He ended up buying a house here. So, for those advanced skiers who for one reason or another find themselves at BW, I'd recommend trying the glades. Boundary Line is the gnarliest I've tried, and I've only done it a few times - there's a big cliff in the middle which I find rather unsettling, and I have to work my way around it because sure as hell I'm not jumping 10 feet into the trees below, but there are also some that I've looked at and said "no thanks". If you are on the Rosebrook Mountain side, all the double blacks are quite hard (and also I still avoid them) -  Snowmaker, Inferno, Dark Star, Over the Falls, Mr Moose, Sierra Crest. They are all VERY challenging and easily accessible, but you have to know to look for them. Most people don't realize that such terrain even exists in Bretton Woods. It's the reason why Bretton Woods has as many acres of skiing as Stowe, while having only about half the trails by length. 

For the "advanced intermediate" skier like me, the "single black" glades are awesome and as much of a challenge as I care to have. But of course, there's no snowmaking and it's very much subject to Mother Nature's whim. 

[Lava Rock]

7 minutes ago, alex said:

For those who get "bored" of groomers (which honestly, I do too after a while), the key is to stick with the glades. A friend of mine hated BW until he did the glades, and the first day he did the glades at the end of the day he said he thought that was one of the most fun days of skiing he'd had (he's typically a Sugarbush skier). He ended up buying a house here. So, for those advanced skiers who for one reason or another find themselves at BW, I'd recommend trying the glades. Boundary Line is the gnarliest I've tried, and I've only done it a few times - there's a big cliff in the middle which I find rather unsettling, and I have to work my way around it because sure as hell I'm not jumping 10 feet into the trees below, but there are also some that I've looked at and said "no thanks". If you are on the Rosebrook Mountain side, all the double blacks are quite hard (and also I still avoid them) -  Snowmaker, Inferno, Dark Star, Over the Falls, Mr Moose, Sierra Crest. They are all VERY challenging and easily accessible, but you have to know to look for them. Most people don't realize that such terrain even exists in Bretton Woods. It's the reason why Bretton Woods has as many acres of skiing as Stowe, while having only about half the trails by length. 

For the "advanced intermediate" skier like me, the "single black" glades are awesome and as much of a challenge as I care to have. But of course, there's no snowmaking and it's very much subject to Mother Nature's whim. 

Wish I knew about the glades at BW. We went 2yrs ago and after a few runs I was bored as hell.

[tamarack]

11 hours ago, dendrite said:

Looks like this met winter had the 3rd fewest amount of time below 10F in my lifetime behind the obvious 97-98 and 01-02 winters. Hadley is winning.

Not surprising.  Looking at the other end of the diurnal curve, the season's coldest afternoon here is 14.  Only 01-02 with 16 failed to have a colder max.  18 of 23 winters here have recorded at least one max <10° and 5 have had subzero highs.  Average here for winter's coldest max is 3.7°, median is 4.

[tamarack]

10 hours ago, ORH_wxman said:

BW has a few decent pitches, but yeah, I’d get bored there probably if I skied it several days in a row....esp if it’s a cloudy/low ceiling day where you lose the spectacular views that mountain gives. 

But I love doing the occasional cruiser day up there. I’ll go there anytime on one of those March/April corn snow days where you get snow-blinded if you take your goggles off. I love those days. MWN looks like this bright white menace against the blue sky on those types of days. 

Cannon/Wildcat are def way gnarlier. They have some sick terrain. 

Ill eventually get over to powderfreak’s mountain. I just haven’t done Stowe yet for whatever reason over the years. By far the biggest name mountain I haven’t done in New England. I’ve done Bolton valley nearby and then Jay Peak a few times. 

Ever get up to Big Squaw when the lift was running its full length.  The view from there must be right up there with BW though of a very different character.  Instead of the MWN massif there's all of Moosehead, Kineo cliffs, the Spencers, forest, lakes and the great white tooth of Katahdin 50 miles to the NE.  Except for Greenville, there's little sign of civilization in view.

[MRVexpat]

4 hours ago, Ginx snewx said:

Totally understand what you mean. I would give anything to be able to be " bored" again. BW was always on the list of must visits during the year. Really is fun and the views, wow.

While we're doing the BW/Cannon/Wildcat comparisons, I'd actually posit that BW has the least inspiring views of the 3. Franconia Ridge from up close and the east side of Mt. Washington are more dramatic IMO. Never spent extensive time skiing any of the three though

[MRVexpat]

1 minute ago, tamarack said:

Ever get up to Big Squaw when the lift was running its full length.  The view from there must be right up there with BW though of a very different character.  Instead of the MWN massif there's all of Moosehead, Kineo cliffs, the Spencers, forest, lakes and the great white tooth of Katahdin 50 miles to the NE.  Except for Greenville, there's little sign of civilization in view.

https://bangordailynews.com/2021/02/16/news/piscataquis/developer-will-seek-up-to-135m-to-finance-moosehead-lake-ski-resort/

Would be cool, just unsure of demand that far north. At this point just hoping that Saddleback can stick around beyond the next 5 years. 

[mreaves]

3 minutes ago, MRVexpat said:

https://bangordailynews.com/2021/02/16/news/piscataquis/developer-will-seek-up-to-135m-to-finance-moosehead-lake-ski-resort/

Would be cool, just unsure of demand that far north. At this point just hoping that Saddleback can stick around beyond the next 5 years. 

I've never even heard of Big Moose Mountain.  

[PhineasC]

7 minutes ago, MRVexpat said:

While we're doing the BW/Cannon/Wildcat comparisons, I'd actually posit that BW has the least inspiring views of the 3. Franconia Ridge from up close and the east side of Mt. Washington are more dramatic IMO. Never spent extensive time skiing any of the three though

I think they all have their charms. And it depends on where you stand and look. The broad swath of brilliant white against a deep blue sky with Mt. Washington on a clear day is hard to beat.

There are numerous amazing views throughout the Whites. One is right off my deck. LOL

[bwt3650]

1 hour ago, backedgeapproaching said:

Congrats Moose fart zone.

 

Snowy and blowy couple days incoming up here.  Gfs still looks the most bullish.  Would be nice to grab 8-12 and a POW day tmrw.  We all ways talk about it, but the best thing about the northern greens is these refreshes.  Knowing that better conditions after a tough cutter or thaw/freeze are usually only a couple days away is what makes it special.  

[PhineasC]

Expecting another 1-3" deal here. That seems to be the typical upslope amount outside of a special setup.

Been plenty of these after the synoptic side of things went extinct.

[mreaves]

30 minutes ago, MRVexpat said:

https://bangordailynews.com/2021/02/16/news/piscataquis/developer-will-seek-up-to-135m-to-finance-moosehead-lake-ski-resort/

Would be cool, just unsure of demand that far north. At this point just hoping that Saddleback can stick around beyond the next 5 years. 

This story made me think of the stalled, if that is what it should be called, development at the Balsams in NH.  The ski expansion looks interesting.

https://thebalsamsresort.com/balsams-ski-area-expansion-fly-over/

[PhineasC]

4 minutes ago, mreaves said:

This story made me think of the stalled, if that is what it should be called, development at the Balsams in NH.  The ski expansion looks interesting.

https://thebalsamsresort.com/balsams-ski-area-expansion-fly-over/

I assume this would be trying to capture the Canadian market, like Jay Peak? It's way up there. A haul even from Berlin which isn't exactly considered "easily accessible" by the crowds down south that drive most of the ski business up here.

[MRVexpat]

2 minutes ago, mreaves said:

This story made me think of the stalled, if that is what it should be called, development at the Balsams in NH.  The ski expansion looks interesting.

https://thebalsamsresort.com/balsams-ski-area-expansion-fly-over/

Looks like Big Moose Mountain/Moosehead Lake Ski resort is what Big Squaw is currently known as. As far as the Balsams, is Les Otten still involved with that? Dude did so much to push big time East Coast ski resort development, but did so pretty unsustainably and he's a bit of a kook from what I gather haha. If you want to read more about him and resort development in general, Ski Inc. is a super interesting book. Written by the former GM of Steamboat and Killington before that who rose up through the ranks in the New England scene. 

[tamarack]

1 hour ago, MRVexpat said:

https://bangordailynews.com/2021/02/16/news/piscataquis/developer-will-seek-up-to-135m-to-finance-moosehead-lake-ski-resort/

Would be cool, just unsure of demand that far north. At this point just hoping that Saddleback can stick around beyond the next 5 years. 

Good point - that's why the original area couldn't make it.  Rangeley is an hour closer to populous places, also handy to the Whites for border crossers and a bigger mountain with better natural snow.  Both Greenville and Rangeley are snowmobile havens but the latter has more of the organized sledder activities and is also more of a four-season tourist destination.

I've never even heard of Big Moose Mountain.  

Until about 15 years ago it was Big Squaw Mountain.  It's located just NW from Greenville near the south end of Moosehead Lake.  As noted in the link posted by MRVexpat, "squaw" is a term offensive to many tribes so the Maine legislature expunged it from the state's place names.  They even changed Squa Pan, a mountain near PQI, to Scopan because of the first 4 letters, even though that name supposedly means "where the bears den".  Haven't gotten to Snowsquall Island yet.

[Angus]

IMO, with gulf of slides, tuckerman and Huntington Ravine in the forefront; the views from Wildcat can't be beat. Best view at Cannon is Vista Way which I guess in many ways is my favorite trail there too. Both Wildcat and Cannon's views are rugged.

BW expansive views are what I'd describe as majestic!

I am less familiar with the glade skiing on the upper half of Cannon but what I've sampled I haven't really liked, I find it suffers from steep, tight lines with lots of low branches...so you are skiing, ducking and avoiding roots and rocks because folks basically have "slip, slided" their way thru previously.

Great thing about BW's glades are they are all cleaned up, there aren't any stumps, roots and other stuff sticking out...they can generally be skied with a minimum of natural snow. The canopy is high and trees are generously spaced.

I kind of remember and don't know the specifics but there use to be a MWV pass available to residents that gave them access to all 5 areas, don't know if it even existed but the nice thing about Wildcat, BW, Cranmore, Black and Attitash, they are all very different areas with different charms. I was talking to a Epic skier who lives in Bartlett this weekend on the chairlift and he was saying the lines have been so insane at Attitash and Wildcat that they have been skiing at Black this season and love it.

[J.Spin]

40 minutes ago, bwt3650 said:

Snowy and blowy couple days incoming up here.  Gfs still looks the most bullish.  Would be nice to grab 8-12 and a POW day tmrw.  We all ways talk about it, but the best thing about the northern greens is these refreshes.  Knowing that better conditions after a tough cutter or thaw/freeze are usually only a couple days away is what makes it special.  

This is a perfect example of where those higher annual snowfall numbers come from for the resorts of the Northern Greens.  I’ve mentioned in before about how many a casual skier assumes it’s some sort of ski resort marketing BS.  “Yeah, right, resort X reports 100” of extra snowfall compared to any of the resorts to the north, south, east, or west of them. – they’re so full of sh!t”  The reality of the situation is that when these smaller events happen over the course of 6 to 8 months during a winter season, they simply add up.  Obviously the folks in this thread are aware of the snowfall because they see the forecasts and reports from around here in real time, but it won’t stop the typical Monday morning quarterbacks from throwing up the B.S. flags because Jay Peak is somehow reporting a another 300” season when nobody else appears to be close to that number.  It’s March now, so many skiers farther south have already checked out and will be oblivious to the fact that it’s still snowing.

[J.Spin]

2 hours ago, backedgeapproaching said:

Congrats Moose fart zone.

The BTV NWS felt the impact was enough to put up some Winter Weather Advisories up in parts of the Adirondacks and western slopes of the Northern Greens:

Area Forecast Discussion

National Weather Service Burlington VT

932 AM EST Thu Mar 4 2021

.NEAR TERM /THROUGH FRIDAY/...Overall, total snow accumulations between 7 PM tonight and 7 PM Friday will be 3 to 6 inches across the aforementioned locations, with 6 to 8 inches possible at elevations above 1000 ft. For such reasons, a Winter Weather Advisory is in effect. Due to the fluffy nature of the snow, blowing snow will also be a concern during this time.

We’ll see how it plays out, but the map’s got that general 6-8” shading along the spine, and a touch of 8-12” shading up near Jay Peak.  The point forecast at our site in the valley is in the 3-6” range, which looks right in line with the event total snowfall map.

[bwt3650]

1 hour ago, J.Spin said:

This is a perfect example of where those higher annual snowfall numbers come from for the resorts of the Northern Greens.  I’ve mentioned in before about how many a casual skier assumes it’s some sort of ski resort marketing BS.  “Yeah, right, resort X reports 100” of extra snowfall compared to any of the resorts to the north, south, east, or west of them. – they’re so full of sh!t”  The reality of the situation is that when these smaller events happen over the course of 6 to 8 months during a winter season, they simply add up.  Obviously the folks in this thread are aware of the snowfall because they see the forecasts and reports from around here in real time, but it won’t stop the typical Monday morning quarterbacks from throwing up the B.S. flags because Jay Peak is somehow reporting a another 300” season when nobody else appears to be close to that number.  It’s March now, so many skiers farther south have already checked out and will be oblivious to the fact that it’s still snowing.

 

 

 

Everyone here I think knows better than to doubt the numbers, but if you are from the mid-Atlantic or not familiar with the area, I would say this is a decent pack at1850’ for March.  Hopefully, we can add another foot or so for a great March weekend of skiing. 

[PhineasC]

skiMRG was the guy who kinda had a political meltdown a couple years back and started his own board, right? Or am I thinking of someone else. @ORH_wxman would remember. 

[ORH_wxman]

2 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

skiMRG was the guy who kinda had a political meltdown a couple years back and started his own board, right? Or am I thinking of someone else. @ORH_wxman would remember. 

Yes. He’s the crazy good skier sometimes people reference (name is pete) on here when discussing past ski GTGs. He sometimes goes up to alaska and jumps out of helicopters to ski. 

 

[bwt3650]

I know very little about this stuff, but from what I’m learning, these 850 temps and froude numbers with a slightly blocked flow look great for some high ratio upslope powder here.

[dryslot]

16 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

skiMRG was the guy who kinda had a political meltdown a couple years back and started his own board, right? Or am I thinking of someone else. @ORH_wxman would remember. 

He's alive and well..............

[J.Spin]

On 3/3/2021 at 7:48 AM, powderfreak said:

Should be some deeper dust on crust but even if the base is firm, 4-6” is still fun.  Still snowing pretty good!

With those snow ratios, and the temperature cycling that the existing snow had seen, I knew it was going to be pretty much a “dust on crust” setup out there as you indicated – but with a half foot of snow, at least it’s more of a “Northern Greens” sort of dust on crust experience.

I had just a bit of time to stop in at Bolton for some turns on my way in to Burlington yesterday, so I visited Timberline to see how the conditions were faring.  My plan was to hit some low-angle stuff on my fat skis, and that was indeed about the only terrain that offered up bottomless turns.  Anything above that angle and you were hitting the subsurface – and that subsurface snow on anything that hadn’t been groomed is indeed loud.  Moderate angle turns were still decent with that new snow to push back on, but the low-angle powder was the best.  I had some nice turns on the mellow inclines of Villager and Spur in the fresh snow.  Groomed terrain was also pretty nice where they’d been able to till up the old stuff and get some new snow into it, although that depended on the time they’d groomed.  Some spots were groomed before the new snow fell, so it was powder on top of that.  The resort was being cautious and hadn’t even open the ungroomed terrain yesterday, and that was probably wise, since the powder made it dangerous in some cases by simply hiding the moonscape below.

I think they had reported about a half foot of new snow in the morning report, but I was generally finding 6-8” in my depth checks in the 1,500’ – 2,500’ elevation range.  I see they’re reporting 9” in the past 48 hours in this morning’s report.

My boys headed up for some turns in the afternoon, and my younger son said it was pretty hilarious in that “It was like skiing powder, but still skiing on the base.”  We were talking last night at dinner about how what they skied was literally the antithesis of “bottomless powder”.  I guess one could call that “bottomful powder” in that line of terminology.  “Dust on crust” also gets that point across, although I typically don’t think of 6-8” of snow when I think of dust.

In any event, it was a good aesthetic refresher for the pack both down at the house and up on the hill, and hopefully we’ll have a bit more to add in the next couple of days.  A couple images from yesterday:

[powderfreak]

1 hour ago, J.Spin said:

My boys headed up for some turns in the afternoon, and my younger son said it was pretty hilarious in that “It was like skiing powder, but still skiing on the base.”  We were talking last night at dinner about how what they skied was literally the antithesis of “bottomless powder”.  I guess one could call that “bottomful powder” in that line of terminology.  “Dust on crust” also gets that point across, although I typically don’t think of 6-8” of snow when I think of dust.

Yeah we were calling it "Deeper dust on crust" or the main joke of the day was "It looks so great, and then you go to make a turn and it's the loudest turn you've ever made."  And from what I saw, it looked like Bolton was the epicenter of this little event.  6-9" wouldn't surprise me.  I think they were in the best radar for most of that one.

I don't know if you follow the Pinnacle Ski Shop guys who do these unofficial Stowe snow report videos on instagram but they are usually great.  The one guy here, known as Birdman by locals, is hilarious.  He described the surface well, ha.  

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CL9Wz49hp5q/