NNE Cold Season Thread 2020-2021

[jculligan]

High of 48F here yesterday - warmest day since Christmas. Starting out at 36F this morning but it looks like it's already 44F at 4000' on the Mount Washington Auto Road. Toasty couple of days ahead.

Skied the Gulf of Slides yesterday in legit spring conditions. The snowpack is definitely lean for mid March in the alpine, and there were even some ice bulges to negotiate which I can't say I've ever encountered in the GOS in March before. Two nights without a refreeze will take a bit of a toll, but then it looks like things lock up this weekend.

Euro and GFS both have some fun next week. Not much ensemble support at the moment, but at least there is something to watch for the first time in quite a while. At the very least, it looks like winter temperatures will be returning. Hopefully we can pick up some snow on top of it. 

[powderfreak]

Mild morning in the mountains.

34F down in town and stuff seems frozen again, but up higher it’s in the 40s straight to the summits.

Also getting some light rain. Strong SW upslope flow standing wave wringing out some precip in the northern mountains and east slopes.

[mreaves]

54 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Mild morning in the mountains.

34F down in town and stuff seems frozen again, but up higher it’s in the 40s straight to the summits.

Also getting some light rain. Strong SW upslope flow standing wave wringing out some precip in the northern mountains and east slopes.

 

We dipped down to 31.8° and are up to 35.7°.  The driveway is melting out so that's a good thing.

[alex]

Started in the upper 20s and with about 15-16” at the stake. Not much melted yesterday- probably because of the low dews? Today we torch!

[tamarack]

1 hour ago, jculligan said:

High of 48F here yesterday - warmest day since Christmas. Starting out at 36F this morning but it looks like it's already 44F at 4000' on the Mount Washington Auto Road. Toasty couple of days ahead.

Skied the Gulf of Slides yesterday in legit spring conditions. The snowpack is definitely lean for mid March in the alpine, and there were even some ice bulges to negotiate which I can't say I've ever encountered in the GOS in March before. Two nights without a refreeze will take a bit of a toll, but then it looks like things lock up this weekend.

Euro and GFS both have some fun next week. Not much ensemble support at the moment, but at least there is something to watch for the first time in quite a while. At the very least, it looks like winter temperatures will be returning. Hopefully we can pick up some snow on top of it. 

06z GFS had nice events at day 7 and day 9.  Of course, we know how dependable models are at d7,d9.   However, 2 days ago that model was showing zero snow for the next 16 days and I was possibly looking at my first "winter" (DJFM) month in Maine w/o measurable snowfall.
Upper 20s launch point this AM with clouds, expect to be near 50 this afternoon and begin the melt.  Last 2 days' low-mid 40s merely settled the snow a bit.

[PhineasC]

Up to 45 already. 

[backedgeapproaching]

Lost a total of 2-2.5" inches the past 2 days of snowpack.  Actually get a lot of sun in half my yard this time of year, but its totally flat and gently slopes north, so not a ton of loss even with 7 hours of sun.  South facing hills taking a beating though around here and in town locations also melting out-- almost nothing left.  Snowpack beat down comes today though with mid 40's dews and sun and warmer temps.

Kids had their Junior Ski program through school at Bromley yesterday afternoon, definitely springs like conditions with Bromley's southern exposure and lots of sun.   Pretty much everything was soft by afternoon.

I'm good with melting out my yard at this point and keeping some snow up high and then hopefully we get one or two more bigger events mid-late month.

 

[Angus]

2 hours ago, jculligan said:

Skied the Gulf of Slides yesterday in legit spring conditions. The snowpack is definitely lean for mid March in the alpine, and there were even some ice bulges to negotiate which I can't say I've ever encountered in the GOS in March before. Two nights without a refreeze will take a bit of a toll, but then it looks like things lock up this weekend.

Had to go back to remind myself of the year but I have photos from April 2016 in Tucks that look like May in terms of snowpack. One of my 'bucket list' things I'd like to do this year is ski top to bottom from summit to pinkham notch but think there will be only a limited # of days to do that...comfortably.

[alex]

Summer skiing in the woods. I love it and can’t deny that the forecast for Friday onward is a bit painful after this. 

[powderfreak]

59F and mostly sunny at MVL!  Wow, what a day.

48F at MMNV1 Picnic Tables.

Was not expecting full sunshine with these temps aloft... records going to fall.  Northern Greens and Northern Adirondacks some of the warmest around.  Lake Champlain is still so cold you can see it cooling the readings in the Champlain Valley.

 

[PhineasC]

62 here. Feels wonderful out there. 

If it isn't going to snow, just bring on spring.

[backedgeapproaching]

What a furnace....wow. 60s and sun. T-shirt weather for sure.

[wxeyeNH]

UP to 47F  Cold air always wins here

[PhineasC]

I may hit 70 at this rate. 64 and still climbing.

[powderfreak]

What a day.

[tamarack]

Sun finally emerged here, temp approaching 50.  Amount of cloud from here on will determine how far into the 50s we get.

[backedgeapproaching]

Full sun spots at 12.5" at noon at 64F. Will see how much is left at 7am tomorrow.  Shady spots are 16-17" -ish.

 

[jculligan]

Up to 63F here. Warmest day since November 12th.

[NW_of_GYX]

Made a last minute decision to take the day off and head into the alpine. Booted up Right gully and ascended the snowfields and then descended via snowfields and sluice. Wind was blowing near 50 consistently once we topped out of the bowl but it was above 40 degrees as we approached 6000’. Summit may have set a record temp today. Skiing was good but skipped the corn cycle and went right to mash potatoes. Like another poster said, there is very little snow in the alpine. Lower headwall is almost out. Looks like a week or so of snow preservation but hoping for a few late season elevation events. 

[SJonesWX]

2 hours ago, jculligan said:

Up to 63F here. Warmest day since November 12th.

warmest day since xmas here lol

[J.Spin]

2 minutes ago, NW_of_GYX said:

Skiing was good but skipped the corn cycle and went right to mash potatoes.

I suspect it’s more likely that this being the first day with warmth of this magnitude, the snow just hasn’t actually cycled to corn snow yet.  If you’re starting with actual powder snow (vs. something heavily consolidated), it takes some rounds of freeze thaw to get to legitimate corn snow status.  When the powder first warms, it just goes to mush, and then it really can take a number of cycles of freeze thaw to get to form large enough crystals to get to a respectable ski surface.  Manmade or heavily skier/machine-packed snow can actually get there pretty quickly because much of the consolidation has been done.

When I lived out in Montana I learned that it was typical among many backcountry skiers in the Northern Rockies to essentially stop skiing for April and much of May because of this issue.  Spring is one of their snowier periods, and for the higher elevation spots that continue to get snow, there’s not usually enough time and/or the right temperatures between snowfalls to actually get beyond the mush.  Once later May and June come around, the weather pattern will finally support the formation of good snow, and they start skiing again.

[powderfreak]

8 minutes ago, J.Spin said:

I suspect it’s more likely that this being the first day with warmth of this magnitude, the snow just hasn’t actually cycled to corn snow yet.  If you’re starting with actual powder snow (vs. something heavily consolidated), it takes some rounds of freeze thaw to get to legitimate corn snow status.  When the powder first warms, it just goes to mush, and then it really can take a number of cycles of freeze thaw to get to form large enough crystals to get to a respectable ski surface.  Manmade or heavily skier/machine-packed snow can actually get there pretty quickly because much of the consolidation has been done.

When I lived out in Montana I learned that it was typical among many backcountry skiers in the Northern Rockies to essentially stop skiing for April and much of May because of this issue.  Spring is one of their snowier periods, and for the higher elevation spots that continue to get snow, there’s not usually enough time and/or the right temperatures between snowfalls to actually get beyond the mush.  Once later May and June come around, the weather pattern will finally support the formation of good snow, and they start skiing again.

Yeah this is spot on.  The snow needs to get rained on or melt, refreeze, and then warm up again to get the corn cycle.  Can't go from cold snowpack to hot like we just did because the snow gets super sticky and slow (as is happening today on a lot of the natural snow terrain).  Those powder dendrites that were forming the layer of powder on top, just got wet and when those flakes get wet those big arms of the crystals act like a suction cup on your ski bases.  Need to change the crystal into granular first, then warm it up.

The past two days have had the best skiing on the man-made snow trails that are groomed and heavily skied as they have lost most of their powder qualities through the daily grinding.  That stuff is the closest to granular snow and has skied so much better than the natural snow trails.  The difference at Stowe between like Nosedive/Hayride vs. Starr and Goat is obvious when you ski them.  From mid-mtn on down, the snow on Starr and Goat want to rip you out of your skis it's so slow and sticky...even with a fresh wax.  We were joking it felt like your boot liners would just come right out of the shell with your feet attached.

The man-made snow runs and heavily groomed are by far the best right now.  After this though, we should refreeze and if we do not get any more snowfall the corn will be ripe the next time it warms up.  But as soon as it snows, it resets itself and needs to go through the transformation again.

[PhineasC]

Not sure about Stowe, but BW definitely needs more snow to have any sort of extended season in the trees. Many bare spots already and thin everywhere. I think the steady temps and lack of rain in February really masked the fact that there hasn’t been basically any synoptic snow of note at the mountain since the first couple days of Feb. The lack of base is showing now. Corn snow cycle can’t do much with muddy ground. 

[powderfreak]

5 hours ago, powderfreak said:

What a day.

 

14 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

Not sure about Stowe, but BW definitely needs more snow to have any sort of extended season in the trees. Many bare spots already and thin everywhere. I think the steady temps and lack of rain in February really masked the fact that there hasn’t been basically any synoptic snow of note at the mountain since the first couple days of Feb. The lack of base is showing now. Corn snow cycle can’t do much with muddy ground. 

Definitely not feeling any worry about melting out anytime soon.  Stowe has arguably the best snow preservation being on Mansfield’s east slope where it only gets direct solar in the morning.  The big tell at Stowe is if that north wall of the Notch (steep and facing south) still has 100% cover that the ski terrain on Mansfield isn’t even close to thinking about low tide.  In my photo from earlier that’s the wall on the furthest right side of the photo at the edge of the shot.

That north wall will melt out to 3,000ft in the spring sun before even 1500ft where the FourRunner Quad and Gondola are.  We can often ski glades to the base area still while staring across at a snow free hillside.  Even March 2012, 5 days of 70s with lows in the 50s didn’t end it.  

[powderfreak]

Down at 750ft in the village we never had a big pack (kept maxing out around 18-20") but still holding onto 10-12" on average.  It is getting towards mid-March down here in the valley so without refreshes, it usually does start decreasing/fighting a losing battle this time of year.  Up at 1,500ft and above along the spine there a few miles west will hold 18-20"+.

The one thing I noticed this evening on the dog walk was how variable the temperature was.  If the wind went calm, it felt chilly and cooled off very fast...like the snow/ice was giving off a refrigerated feeling.  When the wind would blow though, it was hot.  Any breeze led to temperatures that did not jive with the winter scene. 

It was in the upper 50s when this photo was taken, though it seems like it would look similar if it was 20F.  What's left of the snowpack down here is going to freeze solid come the weekend and should last another 10 days at least given the current models.

[alex]

3 hours ago, PhineasC said:

Not sure about Stowe, but BW definitely needs more snow to have any sort of extended season in the trees. Many bare spots already and thin everywhere. I think the steady temps and lack of rain in February really masked the fact that there hasn’t been basically any synoptic snow of note at the mountain since the first couple days of Feb. The lack of base is showing now. Corn snow cycle can’t do much with muddy ground. 

You should have seen last year this time lol... but then we had fully covered ski trails till May. It’s not that unusual to have big thaws that will wreck the glades - and they really weren’t that bad today. In face I kinda loved the confistins.  Keep in mind that because of tree spacing and high skier traffic glades will always get bare spots after a long period without snow even if there is no melting. Everyone tends to carve in the same spots. There’s just no grooming to redistribute the snow around. And obviously no snowmaking base. 
 

Tonight is downright tropical. Not sure if you’ve been here in the summer but it’s often colder than this by this hour! We should lose a lot of pack in the next 12 hours. 
 

[PhineasC]

19 minutes ago, alex said:

You should have seen last year this time lol... but then we had fully covered ski trails till May. It’s not that unusual to have big thaws that will wreck the glades - and they really weren’t that bad today. In face I kinda loved the confistins.  Keep in mind that because of tree spacing and high skier traffic glades will always get bare spots after a long period without snow even if there is no melting. Everyone tends to carve in the same spots. There’s just no grooming to redistribute the snow around. And obviously no snowmaking base. 
 

Tonight is downright tropical. Not sure if you’ve been here in the summer but it’s often colder than this by this hour! We should lose a lot of pack in the next 12 hours. 
 

57 here right now. LOL

[jculligan]

After a high of 65F today, we quickly dipped to 47F shortly after sunset but we have since jumped back to 58F on a pretty gusty south to southwest wind. Full on torch at this elevation right now. 

[#NoPoles]

Wow is it warm and humid. Alot of melting going to happen.

 

[tamarack]

12 hours ago, powderfreak said:

Down at 750ft in the village we never had a big pack (kept maxing out around 18-20") but still holding onto 10-12" on average.  It is getting towards mid-March down here in the valley so without refreshes, it usually does start decreasing/fighting a losing battle this time of year.  Up at 1,500ft and above along the spine there a few miles west will hold 18-20"+.

 

The one thing I noticed this evening on the dog walk was how variable the temperature was.  If the wind went calm, it felt chilly and cooled off very fast...like the snow/ice was giving off a refrigerated feeling.  When the wind would blow though, it was hot.  Any breeze led to temperatures that did not jive with the winter scene. 

It was in the upper 50s when this photo was taken, though it seems like it would look similar if it was 20F.  What's left of the snowpack down here is going to freeze solid come the weekend and should last another 10 days at least given the current models.

 

That was a frequent phenomenon during the first warm and sunny days after the equinox when I was in the woods.  The breeze would bring a blob of air from open hardwoods and it would be nice and warm, then the next blob would come from under the black growth and be very noticeably cooler.  Late morning thru mid afternoon would have that back and forth, sometimes only seconds apart.

Temp was upper 30s at 10 last evening and upper 40s at 5:30 this morning.  Down 3-4° since then with some strong gusts.  High of 54 yesterday tied 12/25 for mildest since 12/1.