NNE Cold Season Thread 2020-2021

[Hitman]

13 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

My oldest daughter is begging to switch to a snowboard but I have blocked that so far. We are a skiing family.

My daughter flirted with snowboarding when she was maybe 11-12 but went back to skis.  

[PhineasC]

1 minute ago, dryslot said:

Good set of tires and some weight in the bed, You'll learn.

I figured, hey, I've gotten a Buick LeSabre out of 3 feet of downtown Baltimore cement by rocking and pushing. I can handle this. LOL

[PhineasC]

2 minutes ago, Hitman said:

My daughter flirted with snowboarding when she was maybe 11-12 but went back to skis.  

It's like when they go through a vegetarian phase?  

[Fozz]

17 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

Yeah, I need to get snow tires on this thing.

I'd imagine snow tires are essential especially where you live. I've driven with my regular all season tires on a few powder days in VT and NH, and I've struggled with traction a number of times especially when rates were heavy. It's not worth the stress.

[dryslot]

8 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

I figured, hey, I've gotten a Buick LeSabre out of 3 feet of downtown Baltimore cement by rocking and pushing. I can handle this. LOL

lol, I had one of those way back in the early 80's, They were a tank, I'm going to play this weekend up to the Rangeley-Jackman corridor.

[Hitman]

17 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

Yeah, I need to get snow tires on this thing.

Some years ago, jspin turned me on to all weather tires by Nokian.  Great in the snow and u can ride them year round.  I have a set of nokian at’s on my ranger pickup but I don’t need a dedicated winter tire being mostly in ny metro.

[PhineasC]

1 minute ago, Hitman said:

Some years ago, jspin turned me on to all weather tires by Nokian.  Great in the snow and u can ride them year round.  I have a set of nokian at’s on my ranger pickup but I don’t need a dedicated winter tire being mostly in ny metro.

Nice, appreciate the heads up. If @J.Spin said it, it is probably legit for NNE life.  

[dryslot]

I run a good set of all seasons year round, In winter just add some weight, Done.

[Hitman]

2 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

It's like when they go through a vegetarian phase?  

Oh no u didn’t?  Going through that very thing at the moment.   I’m all happy for her new found healthfulness, really I am, I could just do without the lectures concerning my own meat consumption.  

[LaGrangewx]

55 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

Agree with Scooter on the wind at Cannon. It is awful there...every single time I’ve been in that peak it’s brutal. The terrain is amazing but the wind definitely has a detrimental effect on coverage.  

I think that’s part of their snowfall issues too. Like look at MWN. There’s a zero percent chance they average “only” 260” of snow if we could theoretically catch all the snow that falls there. But we can’t and it blows off into the ravines. Cannon isn’t the best snow spot anyway, but likely a higher percentage of their snowfall just gets nuked off the mountain face by wind than other mountains...and that mountain face is so exposed too where the trails are. Not many sheltered spots for it to collect. 

Was wondering what makes Cannon not great for snowfall? Shadowing to the east? Looks like they could get decent Nw upslope though

[Ginx snewx]

29 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

I'm usually the guy strolling all confident across the parking lots in MD laughing at grandma penguin-walking when it's 33 degrees and raining. In Randolph, I fall down a lot. 

My casual wear in winter are Skechers, great treads for ice

[MRVexpat]

30 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

Yeah SR doesn’t average a ton but it holds the snow amazingly due to its shape and the fact that it’s already deep into CAD territory. It’s kind of like a giant horseshoe that faces northeast. 

The low elevation snow depths there are usually unmatched anywhere else at similar latitude in New England. I routinely have seen 40-50” depths at like 600-800 feet there in late winter.  

 

The Maine mountains are unbelievable good CAD spots. It seems Saddleback and Sugarloaf even moreso but I'm sure that's just because they average 70" and 50" more per year respectively, thus making it seem amplified.

I remember taking an early April midweek trip to the Loaf back in my Sugarbush days when we had rain in the forecast in VT and a slushy 6" of snowpack. My buddy and I are driving NW past Errol NH and the snowbanks start shooting up and the rain turns to snow. Of course we were aware of the forecast and were pow hunting but it was the sheer snowpack at that time of year that surprised me most. 

For day in day out ski conditions though, nothing can touch VT imo. Pretty sure Jspin touched on this in the past but when you can cover up a cutter with 4" of snow, grooming that in overnight makes a world of a difference. That and the natural tree skiing in VT is far superior, if that's your thing. Lots of schwack in NH and ME. 

[Ginx snewx]

37 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

Yeah, seems like when there is a defined low nearby pumping on NE or E winds Randolph can destroy the competition. I even compete with the ski hills in that setup. Pretty sure I get more snow than Cannon, to be honest.

I have been impressed with the upslope here this week. It's has been relentless. Snowing hard as hell right now.

The locals from Gorham here tried to tell me. LOL They spoke of this house as some kind magical snow kingdom with plow piles higher than houses. I can only imagine what a 250" winter would look like.

You should bring the family to Sunday River midweek, only an hour from you. 

[PhineasC]

6 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

You should bring the family to Sunday River midweek, only an hour from you. 

Sunday River and Wildcat are both on the agenda. Still getting our bearings here. My wife and I had skied Bretton Woods in the past, and adding Cannon to the season pass was basically a freebie. We went over to Sunday River a few times in the summer to check it out. It is definitely on the list for season passes next fall.

[Ginx snewx]

Just now, PhineasC said:

Sunday River and Wildcat are both on the agenda. Still getting our bearings here. My wife and I had skied Bretton Woods in the past, and adding Cannon to the season pass was basically a freebie. We went over to Sunday River a few times in the summer to check it out. It is definitely on the list for season passes next fall.

Mt Abrams is a great place for the kids as well. Right on 26 about 10 minutes from SR

[ORH_wxman]

17 minutes ago, MRVexpat said:

The Maine mountains are unbelievable good CAD spots. It seems Saddleback and Sugarloaf even moreso but I'm sure that's just because they average 70" and 50" more per year respectively, thus making it seem amplified.

I remember taking an early April midweek trip to the Loaf back in my Sugarbush days when we had rain in the forecast in VT and a slushy 6" of snowpack. My buddy and I are driving NW past Errol NH and the snowbanks start shooting up and the rain turns to snow. Of course we were aware of the forecast and were pow hunting but it was the sheer snowpack at that time of year that surprised me most. 

For day in day out ski conditions though, nothing can touch VT imo. Pretty sure Jspin touched on this in the past but when you can cover up a cutter with 4" of snow, grooming that in overnight makes a world of a difference. That and the natural tree skiing in VT is far superior, if that's your thing. Lots of schwack in NH and ME. 

The Loaf and Saddleback also have really good elevation. Saddleback base elevation is like 2100 feet, LOL.  That’s like Kmart levels except you are up in Rangeley where nothing melts even at lake level, nevermind 2100 feet.

Sugarloaf is like 1500 and even further northeast into The boondocks.

Sunday River is actually kind of unique in how low their base elevation is. I think base of whitecap is like 850ish to 900. 

 

[Ginx snewx]

Just now, ORH_wxman said:

The Loaf and Saddleback also have really good elevation. Saddleback base elevation is like 2100 feet, LOL.  That’s like Kmart levels except you are up in Rangeley where nothing melts even at lake level, nevermind 2100 feet.

Sugarloaf is like 1500 and even further northeast into The boondocks.

Sunday River is actually kind of unique in how low their base elevation is. I think base of whitecap is like 850ish to 900. 

 

Whitecap melts out the quickest of all the 8 peaks. Has more southern exposure at the base. There is an amazing difference between Whitecap and Aurora, Jordan Bowl in snowfall as well. Has to be some upslope effect. 

[PhineasC]

Been snowing hard here all evening. I am impressed. GYX called for "scattered snow showers" which I have come to learn can mean big snows here. Like when LWX in MD issues a WWA and then has to play catch-up all day with warnings. Those are the best storms. 

[ORH_wxman]

52 minutes ago, Fozz said:

Sounds like that definitely compensates for their lack of snowfall. I've gotta make a trip there one day. The pics I've seen are breathtaking and it seems to be a very widespread favorite. Since I don't have the IKON pass, SR might even be worth the lift ticket prices after a good snowstorm.

I have found SR to really shine late in the season. Because it holds snow so well, all their steeps are slathered in snow well into March and early April. The only one that struggles a little bit is Quantum Leap because it’s one of the few steep trails that face west (it’s on the back side of north peak) and it also has no snow making on it. 

 SR because of the mountain design can spread their crowds out really well too...so even a crowded day isn’t terrible when all the lifts are turning.

But yeah, going into the trees off Oz and Aurora peaks can be really fun when they get a nice synoptic dump. Or if you really like steep bumps, do shockwave on whitecap peak after a nice snowfall. 

[ORH_wxman]

2 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

Been snowing hard here all evening. I am impressed. GYX called for "scattered snow showers" which I have come to learn can mean big snows here. Like when LWX in MD issues a WWA and then has to play catch-up all day with warnings. Those are the best storms. 

Chris (Ocean State wx) always talks about their struggles in NH upslope region in the forecast grids. They’ll have flurries for Pittsburg NH and that dude’s cam will be S+ with 5 inches already down. LOL. 

Definitely an interesting forecasting spot on the north side of the mountains.  

[PhineasC]

2 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

Chris (Ocean State wx) always talks about their struggles in NH upslope region in the forecast grids. They’ll have flurries for Pittsburg NH and that dude’s cam will be S+ with 5 inches already down. LOL. 

Definitely an interesting forecasting spot on the north side of the mountains.  

I would hate to forecast for this location. The models are basically useless on this stuff. They provide a vague signal, but that could mean 10 inches over J. Spin's house or cloudy with flurries. Seems really hard to predict.

[mreaves]

1 minute ago, PhineasC said:

I would hate to forecast for this location. The models are basically useless on this stuff. They provide a vague signal, but that could mean 10 inches over J. Spin's house or cloudy with flurries. Seems really hard to predict.

As PF has mentioned, BTV does a really good job over here. The combination of proximity of the mountains to the bigger population centers the fact the busiest stretch of highway in the state pass through them and the amount of business that depends on mountain recreation means they can better focus on that type of forecasting. At least that is my paraphrasing of better explanation. 

[PhineasC]

9 minutes ago, mreaves said:

As PF has mentioned, BTV does a really good job over here. The combination of proximity of the mountains to the bigger population centers the fact the busiest stretch of highway in the state pass through them and the amount of business that depends on mountain recreation means they can better focus on that type of forecasting. At least that is my paraphrasing of better explanation. 

Yep, that's true. I read the BTV disco sometimes to get a feel for what the upslope here might do. I am learning the scenarios for when PF and J. Spin are getting snow and it is headed my way versus when it is not. I also read the GYX discos religiously. I have started to learn the signals for when a big dump is coming here based on what is going on in their thinking. I realize now I am in a microclimate compared to Berlin, Gorham, Conway, and even Bretton Woods and Cannon. It's a hard task to forecast for all these areas at the same time. I have a feeling there will be many storms over the years in April where I will be heavy snow while the base of Bretton Woods is heavy rain.

[bwt3650]

1 hour ago, PhineasC said:

My oldest daughter is begging to switch to a snowboard but I have blocked that so far. We are a skiing family.

My youngest daughter wanted to snowboard instead of ski.  It’s def taking longer for her to get comfortable compared to her brothers that wanted to ski.  Once kids learn a wedge, they can stop and are good to go and progressively get better.  Figuring out a toe edge on a snow board takes more time it seems.  I am a skier, who learned to board because my wife did so we could go together.  It’s much harder to learn in my opinion.  

[PhineasC]

Just now, bwt3650 said:

My youngest daughter wanted to snowboard instead of ski.  It’s def taking longer for her to get comfortable compared to her brothers that wanted to ski.  Once kids learn a wedge, they can stop and are good to go and progressively get better.  Figuring out a toe edge on a snow board takes more time it seems.  I am a skier, who learned to board because my wife did so we could go together.  It’s much harder to learn in my opinion.  

I have always heard it is harder to learn.

I am bad teacher for skiing because I never had a lesson and learned over time with my old man throwing me off the lift at the Mid-Atlantic ski places saying "have fun" on the ice.

I have no idea how I parallel turn down a steep pitch. No one ever told me how to do it. I just watched dudes while riding the lifts and pretended I was them until I figured it out.

[bwt3650]

Any of you guys not happy with conditions should take the ride to jay this year.  Getting dumped on with fifty percent less people than a normal year.  I’ll be back out there this weekend and it looks like more powder til Sunday.  The woods are incredible right now.  I had planned on checking out cannon and wildcat this year (never been) but it really doesn’t make sense to leave jay and Stowe because the conditions are so good right now.

[bwt3650]

1 minute ago, PhineasC said:

I have always heard it is harder to learn.

I am bad teacher for skiing because I never had a lesson and learned over time with my old man throwing me off the lift at the Mid-Atlantic ski places saying "have fun" on the ice.

I have no idea how I parallel turn down a steep pitch. No one ever told me how to do it. I just watched dudes while riding the lifts and pretended I was them until I figured it out.

Yeah, it’s fun learning as a kid in the mid Atlantic and Poconos on hills that average 30” a year and freeze/thaw every weekend.  It’s all man made ice pellets.  But I loved it until I started skiing New England and became a snow snob.  

[bwt3650]

47 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

Chris (Ocean State wx) always talks about their struggles in NH upslope region in the forecast grids. They’ll have flurries for Pittsburg NH and that dude’s cam will be S+ with 5 inches already down. LOL. 

Definitely an interesting forecasting spot on the north side of the mountains.  

Probably a lot of instinct and experience to forecast the whites and greens.  I bet it’s an advantage if you grow up in that area and can get a feel for how the mountain behaves under certain conditions.

[PhineasC]

4 hours ago, J.Spin said:

Yeah, skiing ice, especially steep ice, isn’t just “unfun” or irritating (although you can find people who would argue this), it’s also quite dangerous.  See Ginx’s comment for an example, and I’ve actually had to save friends from similar “slide for life” encounters in the past.  Sure, skis have metal edges, but even experienced mountaineers are smart enough to know not to go on steeply pitched ice without crampons and an axe.  Yes, many expert skiers see skiing ice as a “badge of honor” sort of thing, and that’s to each their own of course, but I ski for fun/recreation/exercise etc., so if it’s not fun, I’m not going to force myself to do it.  The analogy I always use for skiing hard snow/ice is like going swimming on a cold, windy day, with water temperatures in the 50s F.  Sure, you can do it, but what’s the point?

 

For typical, high-traffic, lift-served terrain around here, I find there’s generally an inverse correlation between steepness and snow quality – so much more pressure is applied on steep turns that it just beats down and or scrapes away the snow that much quicker.  Obviously, when conditions are really good, or you’re in low traffic or backcountry terrain, you can get both steep terrain and high quality snow if you want, but for typical lift-served terrain, it’s often a compromise between the two.  Everyone has their own personal preference when it comes to these opposing forces, but given my preference, I’ll typically sacrifice some pitch for better quality snow.

 

After thinking about your experience at Cannon today, it got me thinking about the nearby NH ski areas around you (see map below), and if I had to rank them in terms of typical snow quality based on both personal experience and what I read, I think I’d go as follows, going from lowest to highest:

 

1) Cannon

 

2) Wildcat

 

3) Bretton Woods

 

4) Balsams

 

So, yeah, I think that on average, Cannon is probably going to have the roughest snow quality of the areas near you.  It’s unfortunate, but I think Balsams isn’t even running their one main lift anymore as the resort is in limbo regarding plans for a bigger resort, but from everything I’ve read (high snowfall, low skier traffic, etc.) I think they would offer some really nice snow surfaces.  There’s also Black Mountain as possibly the next closest in proximity to you on that map?  I’ve seen the mountain, but haven’t skied there, and I don’t see enough reports to get a sense for their snow quality.  They are a bit lower in elevation, so that may affect their snowfall/snow quality to some degree, but folks who know that area can probably fill us in.

 

Black Mountain is one I want to check out. It seems to have a reputation here as a "locals only" kind of mountain. Very few amenities and not much maintenance. That's no problem for us, as long as the snow is solid and the runs are nice. We are not really lodge lizards, especially this year. That stuff is not important to us.

[Fozz]

48 minutes ago, bwt3650 said:

Any of you guys not happy with conditions should take the ride to jay this year.  Getting dumped on with fifty percent less people than a normal year.  I’ll be back out there this weekend and it looks like more powder til Sunday.  The woods are incredible right now.  I had planned on checking out cannon and wildcat this year (never been) but it really doesn’t make sense to leave jay and Stowe because the conditions are so good right now.

Wildcat has excellent views of Mt Washington on a sunny day, some of the best in all of New England, so for that reason alone I think it’s worth a trip some day. But for now it makes sense to stick to the Greens especially if they’re getting consistently buried.