Central PA 2020 Fall - The Hope begins

[Bubbler86]

2 minutes ago, Cashtown_Coop said:

Sun is having a hard time 

Cool pic.

[Blizzard of 93]

16 minutes ago, Superstorm said:

Any thoughts on what smoke particles does to atmosphere? Is it similar to volcanic eruptions?


.

That is way above my range of weather knowledge!

@MAG5035 would probably be able to provide some more thoughts.

[Itstrainingtime]

32 minutes ago, sauss06 said:

anyone remember we had smoke from Canadian fires like 20 years ago. it was pretty impressive. 

Do I ever! I believe we had just had a strong cold front push through, and the forecast was for several days of refreshing, cool breezes and brilliant sunshine. At first I thought it was a colossal bust by all the mets until it was reported that the strong NW flow behind the front had ushered smoke from the Canadian fires right over PA. 

This is  the 2nd most impressive "smoke event" that I can recall here. 

[Cashtown_Coop]

There’s actually a smoke on the drop down to choose for the obs on wxcoder.  

[pasnownut]

51 minutes ago, Bubbler86 said:

Cool pic.

we can thank california for our global cooling.........:). 

at least they are good for something. hehe

[Bubbler86]

8 minutes ago, pasnownut said:

we can thank california for our global cooling.........:). 

at least they are good for something. hehe

This reminds me of the SNL skit called The Californians.

On our sky maybe this is what the Dino's saw at the start of the end. 

 

[canderson]

Looks like I bottomed out at 47. Glorious! 

[pasnownut]

12 minutes ago, canderson said:

Looks like I bottomed out at 47. Glorious! 

48 here.  No complaints.

[Bubbler86]

So after last evening the data suggests a smoky sky is not one that will limit radiational cooling like a cloudy sky. 

[paweather]

What a slower mover Sally is. My goodness. 

[pasnownut]

1 hour ago, Bubbler86 said:

So after last evening the data suggests a smoky sky is not one that will limit radiational cooling like a cloudy sky. 

clouds that limit traditional cooling often live at lower levels...say  5,000-15,000 ft. 

smoke from cali has to get to upper atmosphere plumes (noted at 55,000ft.) to make it here, and after 3,000 mile journey, are dispersed as they travel east.

[Bubbler86]

31 minutes ago, pasnownut said:

clouds that limit traditional cooling often live at lower levels...say  5,000-15,000 ft. 

smoke from cali has to get to upper atmosphere plumes (noted at 55,000ft.) to make it here, and after 3,000 mile journey, are dispersed as they travel east.

Yea,  but many a met will argue that ANY clouds will limit cooling even a cirro deck of clouds.   I did not investigate how "high" the smoke actually was but if it at 50,000 feet then I agree my point was meaningless but I was figuring it was at best 10-20K. 

[paweather]

I never knew this https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2020/09/15/hurricane-names-greek-alphabet/?fbclid=IwAR0mIcyay3D-E5NrVKVGPRye5sEdcggh-nb8-lOORhnsqqEw7_KcbpNoOTA

We move to the Greek Alphabet. 

 

[paweather]

24 minutes ago, pasnownut said:

clouds that limit traditional cooling often live at lower levels...say  5,000-15,000 ft. 

smoke from cali has to get to upper atmosphere plumes (noted at 55,000ft.) to make it here, and after 3,000 mile journey, are dispersed as they travel east.

Just saw this : The smoke plume, 4-5 thousand miles across, is spoiling what would otherwise be sparkling, sunny September days in DC, Maryland, and Virginia. But it's high enough that it's not affecting air quality. It looks like Cloudy here in PA. 

[Itstrainingtime]

1 hour ago, pasnownut said:

clouds that limit traditional cooling often live at lower levels...say  5,000-15,000 ft. 

smoke from cali has to get to upper atmosphere plumes (noted at 55,000ft.) to make it here, and after 3,000 mile journey, are dispersed as they travel east.

 

1 hour ago, Bubbler86 said:

Yea,  but many a met will argue that ANY clouds will limit cooling even a cirro deck of clouds.   I did not investigate how "high" the smoke actually was but if it at 50,000 feet then I agree my point was meaningless but I was figuring it was at best 10-20K. 

From Horst:

"Nice visualization of the smoke plume crossing North America from the western fires. The smoke layer over Pennsylvania is mainly between 15,000 - 20,000 feet, so there's no impact on surface air quality." 

[Itstrainingtime]

65F at 2:00PM. Saw people in sweatshirts on the river trail at noontime. Not me of course, but still pretty awesome to see at noon in mid-September. 

[Bubbler86]

10 minutes ago, Itstrainingtime said:

 

From Horst:

"Nice visualization of the smoke plume crossing North America from the western fires. The smoke layer over Pennsylvania is mainly between 15,000 - 20,000 feet, so there's no impact on surface air quality." 

That was what I was thinking and had read.  (I saw one article say 20,000 Miles though.  Ha). Thanks for the info.  The articles I read had said NYC so did not want to post them here. 

[Bubbler86]

9 minutes ago, Itstrainingtime said:

65F at 2:00PM. Saw people in sweatshirts on the river trail at noontime. Not me of course, but still pretty awesome to see at noon in mid-September. 

It got down to 58 in the house this Am with the doors and windows.  I cannot honestly say I was overly comfortable.  A tad chilly. 

[MAG5035]

3 hours ago, Bubbler86 said:

So after last evening the data suggests a smoky sky is not one that will limit radiational cooling like a cloudy sky. 

This was my post on this last night, as CTP had a good explanation in their discussion.

15 hours ago, MAG5035 said:

Pretty interesting and informative disco from CTP tonight...A little reminder of Meteo 436 (Atmospheric Radiation) a long time ago.  Adjusting temps down some tomorrow due to the smoke remaining in the upper levels. Frost advisory up for McKean County (Bradford area) tonight. 

Quote

.NEAR TERM /THROUGH TUESDAY/...
Efficient radiational cooling associated with surface high
should result in a chilly overnight. Although a large area of
smoke has moved in over the area, this should not impact
overnight low temps. Smoke can filter out shortwave radiation
from the sun resulting in cooler days, but is not as effective
in absorbing longwave radiation (the smoke particles are too
small), so it has little impact on overnight low temps. Diurnal
mixing will diminish early this evening, bringing nearly calm
winds. A large spread between air and stream water temperatures
should result in the typical dendritic pattern of valley fog
across the Alleghenies after midnight. In addition, latest
guidance lends increasing confidence in areas of frost in the
normally cooler hollows of northwest Pa. A frost advisory is in
effect for Mckean County where the frost is expected to most
widespread, with more patchy frost anticipated elsewhere across
the northwest mountains.

Large scale subsidence and dry air associated with center of
surface high should translate to a virtually cloudless Tuesday.
However, we will continue to see smoke advected in aloft from
the wildfires out west. As such, knocked down high temps a few
degrees for Tue, with temps generally not getting out of the
upper 60s. Dewpoints will remain around 40F, possibly lower if
we can mix up to the very dry air near 5kft, but was not too
aggressive with mixing due to smoke filtering the sunshine.

 

[Bubbler86]

3 minutes ago, MAG5035 said:

This was my post on this last night, as CTP had a good explanation in their discussion.

I completely missed that, sorry.  My head is at 50,000 feet for the first hour after I get up.    I saw your posted but skimmed it.  They covered exactly what I posted about.  

[MAG5035]

KAOO was down to 40ºF last night, and a look at the local mesowest stations showed about the same (39-42ºF). One of the Penn State Ag stations in the fields SW of State College was down to 36ºF as was one near Port Matilda. Those valley areas, especially the Barrens region which is near the Penn State agricultural fields are very good radiational cooling areas so it's likely there was some scattered frost this morning even in this general area. 

[MAG5035]

7 hours ago, Superstorm said:

Any thoughts on what smoke particles does to atmosphere? Is it similar to volcanic eruptions?
 

That's a good question. My best take on that would be it's kind of a yes and no type thing. Yes the smoke particles limit the sun's radiation and that of course has an affect on surface temperatures, which we're seeing the effects of today. I don't know if i've ever seen wildfire smoke so widespread over the US. Part of it is a product of the pattern, most of the US is in a stagnant regime with broad 500mb ridging across the CONUS. Thus the smoke is just rounding the broad high pressure and not getting cleared out by any systems. The setup is also stuffing Hurricane Sally and making that a likely major flooding situation in that part of the Southeast when it finally makes landfall.

Where it is not similar is duration/scope as well as makeup of the ash. I would imagine one is thinking of the long term global cool down as a result of a really major volcanic eruption scenario. When a big time volcanic eruption occurs, that will drive the volcanic ash all the way into the stratosphere. The wildfire smoke is riding the jet stream at about the height of a cirrus deck in our parts. High up but still in the troposphere. Weather will eventually clear the wildfire smoke particles (or volcanic particles) out of the troposphere. Dispersing volcanic sulphates takes a much longer time in the stratosphere. Also, being that volcanic ash is actually pulverized rock/minerals/glass.. it is likely a good bit more efficient at reflecting the sun than wood ash is.

[canderson]

There are an exorbitant amount of people out with sweatshirts on.  

[Bubbler86]

1 minute ago, canderson said:

There are an exorbitant amount of people out with sweatshirts on.  

You know Winter/Cold weather is almost like everything else in our society today.  When it gets within in a month or two of it people want to start celebrating it.   The Wal-Mart in Waynesboro is already fully stocked with your Christmas needs.

[canderson]

5 minutes ago, Bubbler86 said:

You know Winter/Cold weather is almost like everything else in our society today.  When it gets within in a month or two of it people want to start celebrating it.   The Wal-Mart in Waynesboro is already fully stocked with your Christmas needs.

Friends don’t let friends spend a penny at WM. 

[Bubbler86]

3 minutes ago, canderson said:

Friends don’t let friends spend a penny at WM. 

When you have a pet that is sick and will only eat Temptations cat treats you go where they have them.  But I get your drift and stay out of there as much as possible.  The funny thing is that the WM's here in PA are a delight compared to the ones in Central Florida.  Most Florida WM"s are a wasteland.  The People of Walmart web site won't even accept most pics from Florida because they are so bad.

[canderson]

I think we made it, guys ...

 

SATURDAY Sunny, with a high near 66.

 

SATURDAY NIGHT Mostly clear, with a low around 45.

 

SUNDAY Sunny, with a high near 67.

[Blizzard of 93]

2 hours ago, canderson said:

I think we made it, guys ...

 

SATURDAY Sunny, with a high near 66.

 

SATURDAY NIGHT Mostly clear, with a low around 45.

 

SUNDAY Sunny, with a high near 67.

Yes!!! Bring it!

[Kitchener poster]

Smoke is bad in northern PA. Was going to go to Cherry Springs State Park tonight to star gaze. Cancelled it because of smoke pollution. 

[Voyager]

2 hours ago, Bubbler86 said:

When you have a pet that is sick and will only eat Temptations cat treats you go where they have them.  But I get your drift and stay out of there as much as possible.  The funny thing is that the WM's here in PA are a delight compared to the ones in Central Florida.  Most Florida WM"s are a wasteland.  The People of Walmart web site won't even accept most pics from Florida because they are so bad.

Speaking of sick pets, we woke up to our "Tiger" looking like this. It may be a simple ear infection but could also have been a mild stroke. She goes to the vet on Thursday. The hits just keep coming this year...