Fall Banter and General Discussion

[Whineminster]

I'm not taking the vaccine until 2 years from now.  I'm just in a low risk group and I don't want to be guinea pig.  Look what happened when they rolled out the first Polio vaccine......not good. 

[WhitinsvilleWX]

9 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

Once there is widespread availability of the vaccine (i.e. no waiting for anyone who wants it), there should be no restrictions. Hopefully that means by the time we get into warm season 2021.

You’re more optimistic then I am. I think it will be into 2022 really. 
But I’m one of “those” that do not trust the government for much of anything. 

[ORH_wxman]

5 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

I feel like giving the end of restrictions a very long tail is exactly how we end up with them never going away fully...

You should be able to get the vaccine and a little ID card that allows you to keep the mask off and go wherever you want. 

ID card requirement is gonna be tricky....hippa act stuff. That's also a bit of a despotic road you don't want to go down.

Once the vaccine has been widely available for a couple months, you just lift all restrictions. If people don't want to get it, it's on them and it is not up to society to cater to them.

[OSUmetstud]

Just now, PhineasC said:

Ok, but distrust of a rushed, govt-enforced vaccine doesn’t make anyone an idiot. You can feel free to line up to be the first to get jabbed and then don your mask and hunker down at home for another six months anyway. That’s a perfectly legit choice to make. But others will be more wary.

Lol @ rushed.

[Brian5671]

17 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

Talk to people outside your bubble? Only 46% of Americans say they would even consider getting the vaccine in the first round. Fauci and Cuomo both said restrictions would continue even with a vaccine. 

A lower percentage taking the vaxx may be ok given the 95% effective rate of the vaxx....may only need 60%....

[PhineasC]

1 minute ago, Baroclinic Zone said:

Ever get outside your bubble?

I have logged more hours on the road this summer and fall than probably anyone else on this forum, so yeah. There is a large groundswell of people who don’t want the vaccine because they think it is dangerous and won’t change the govt’s desire for control, and it isn’t just crazy white militia prepper types either. 

[SJonesWX]

How the heck would the govt mandate getting a vaccine, and how the heck would they enforce it? 
cops show up at your door with automatic weapons and a syringe?

[ORH_wxman]

Just now, WhitinsvilleWX said:

You’re more optimistic then I am. I think it will be into 2022 really. 
But I’m one of “those” that do not trust the government for much of anything. 

I agree it could take longer than people are saying. I was immediately on the pessimistic bandwagon back in spring when a lot of people were saying we'd all be stuck with a needle by autumn.

But for hypothetical purposes, whenever the vaccine is widely available to anyone who wants it, that's when basically all restrictions should be lifted. I could maybe see keeping them a bit longer for things like LTC facilities and hospitals.

[Lava Rock]

16 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

It seems like we'd need to wear masks and try to socially distance while vaccines are being distributed during at least a portion of 2021. Doesnt sound that bad to me. Neither of those things are economically problematic. 

So you're ok with restaurants and such still struggling with limited seating until middle of next year?

[PhineasC]

1 minute ago, ORH_wxman said:

ID card requirement is gonna be tricky....hippa act stuff. That's also a bit of a despotic road you don't want to go down.

Once the vaccine has been widely available for a couple months, you just lift all restrictions. If people don't want to get it, it's on them and it is not up to society to cater to them.

More despotic than telling everyone to get the experimental vaccine and then keeping them locked down anyway? Where do you put the cutoff for when you lift restrictions? I just don’t trust the govt with an open ended deadline. 

[PhineasC]

Just now, SJonesWX said:

How the heck would the govt mandate getting a vaccine, and how the heck would they enforce it? 
cops show up at your door with automatic weapons and a syringe?

Sounds like something out of China or Canada. Perhaps Australia too. 

[ORH_wxman]

2 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

Lol @ rushed.

It definitely has been rushed.

Doesn't mean it's not safe though, but this is literally breaking records for how fast they are doing this.

[DavisStraight]

10 minutes ago, HIPPYVALLEY said:

Government entities will never commit to that, they will reserve the right to reimpose whatever rules they feel necessary when deemed necessary.  Period. 
I would probably get vaccinated for the sake of those around me but I have no interest in carrying around a “Covid pass” or whatever. 

Maybe they can stamp a red C on our foreheads. 

[PhineasC]

Just now, Lava Rock said:

So you're ok with restaurants and such still struggling with limited seating until middle of next year?

Like I said last night, the tech-class office workers who have been on 100% telework for months just aren’t concerned about that. It never factors into the equation. 

[OSUmetstud]

Just now, Lava Rock said:

So you're ok with restaurants and such still struggling with limited seating until middle of next year?

I was making a general comment of being careful. wouldn't support restaurant restrictions after those who want it can get it. 

[ORH_wxman]

Just now, PhineasC said:

More despotic than telling everyone to get the experimental vaccine and then keeping them locked down anyway? Where do you put the cutoff for when you lift restrictions? I just don’t trust the govt with an open ended deadline. 

I said a couple months after being available to anyone who wants it (i.e. no wait....no supply issues)

[HIPPYVALLEY]

13 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

I feel like giving the end of restrictions a very long tail is exactly how we end up with them never going away fully...

You should be able to get the vaccine and a little ID card that allows you to keep the mask off and go wherever you want. 

Just like the Patriot Act but I’m sure there are many who feel there’s nothing wrong with that.

[PhineasC]

3 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

Lol @ rushed.

It’s been like 6 months dude. It’s a brand new technique never used before in a vaccine in humans as well. How can you say this is not rushed? Come on. 

[WhitinsvilleWX]

9 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

ID card requirement is gonna be tricky....hippa act stuff. That's also a bit of a despotic road you don't want to go down.

Once the vaccine has been widely available for a couple months, you just lift all restrictions. If people don't want to get it, it's on them and it is not up to society to cater to them.

Hippa doesn’t really apply. That only applies to giving information to health care entities. 
I’ve already seen Ticketmaster start to roll out the idea of an app that shows if you’ve had a negative test or have the vaccine to get into concerts. 
Everyone needs to get used to the idea that we will have to show “papers”. I don’t like it much, but I think if you want to go to Fenway, Gilllette, or get on an airplane, you’ll have to show proof of a negative test or vaccine. Might not be forever, but I’m pretty sure we’ll be dealing with these intrusions for several years.

The government won’t outright mandate it for adults, but it will be done by coercion if you want to go about your life. 
I have no problem taking it. I just don’t want to be first. 
I will say that if this mRNA strategy actually works and is safe over the long haul, my god this is truly a revolution in vaccine technology. Theroreticlly, we could vaccinate for all kinds of things. mRNA is easy to make and you can make buckets of it really fast. The biggest hurdle is the storage issue. 
 

[OSUmetstud]

1 minute ago, ORH_wxman said:

It definitely has been rushed.

Doesn't mean it's not safe though, but this is literally breaking records for how fast they are doing this.

Yes. But the same protocols of studies are being followed. I think of rushed as hasty. Its not. 

[PhineasC]

Just now, HIPPYVALLEY said:

Just like the Patriot Act but I’m sure there are many who feel there’s nothing wrong with that.

It’s shocking how many here can’t envision the “state of emergency” just being extended forever due to the next bad flu or “resurgent COVID.” Or maybe they are OK with that reality. 

[Baroclinic Zone]

16 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

I'm sure after a certain amount of time has passed, they can mandate it for things like public schools (which already have vaccine requirements).....but yeah, in an absolute sense you can't actually force people to take a vaccine if they don't want to.

That's where I'm at.  I think by Summer 2021 we should have widespread availability of vaccine(s) and a substantial portion of the population who will have already received it.  We will have most likely 6 mo of people receiving the vaccine from Pfizer so we should have a good handle on efficacy any side-effects,

[ORH_wxman]

Just now, OSUmetstud said:

Yes. But the same protocols of studies are being followed. I think of rushed as hasty. Its not. 

Yeah as long as this is true 100%, then it should be fine. Though the longer term effects are not going to be known, so on some level, this won't be quite as rigorous as a conventional vaccine which may study the effects more than a few months after taking it.

We know there are some incentives to be fast, which is both a good and bad thing. I think the good outweighs the bad for sure, but acknowledging some of the potential risk isn't unwarranted.

[radarman]

3 minutes ago, WhitinsvilleWX said:

Hippa doesn’t really apply. That only applies to giving information to health care entities. 
I’ve already seen Ticketmaster start to roll out the idea of an app that shows if you’ve had a negative test or have the vaccine to get into concerts. 
Everyone needs to get used to the idea that we will have to show “papers”. I don’t like it much, but I think if you want to go to Fenway, Gilllette, or get on an airplane, you’ll have to show proof of a negative test or vaccine. Might not be forever, but I’m pretty sure we’ll be dealing with these instructions for several years.
 

Per airlines, airplanes are extremely safe.  Why would they require a vaccine?

[OSUmetstud]

2 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

Yeah as long as this is true 100%, then it should be fine. Though the longer term effects are not going to be known, so on some level, this won't be quite as rigorous as a conventional vaccine which may study the effects more than a few months after taking it.

We know there are some incentives to be fast, which is both a good and bad thing. I think the good outweighs the bad for sure, but acknowledging some of the potential risk isn't unwarranted.

It should be plain as freaking day. I will stake my reputation that chances of dying of covid are at least a magnitude or two if not higher than an adverse vaccine event. 

[PhineasC]

2 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

Yeah as long as this is true 100%, then it should be fine. Though the longer term effects are not going to be known, so on some level, this won't be quite as rigorous as a conventional vaccine which may study the effects more than a few months after taking it.

We know there are some incentives to be fast, which is both a good and bad thing. I think the good outweighs the bad for sure, but acknowledging some of the potential risk isn't unwarranted.

We can’t gloss over the fact that no mRNA vaccine has ever been approved for use in humans. This is uncharted territory. All in six months under something titled “warp speed.” Is anyone surprised people are wary? That doesn’t make them idiots. 

[PhineasC]

1 minute ago, OSUmetstud said:

It should be plain as freaking day. I will stake my reputation that chances of dying of covid are at least a magnitude or two if not higher than an adverse vaccine event. 

Let us know as soon as you receive the vaccine. 

[OSUmetstud]

Just now, PhineasC said:

Let us know as soon as you receive the vaccine. 

I will. Thanks. 

[WhitinsvilleWX]

2 minutes ago, radarman said:

Per airlines, airplanes are extremely safe.  Why would they require a vaccine?

I’m talking about travel and not having to quarantine once you get there. 
And I’m posting on a SW flight right now. Somewhere just off Cape May if I read my geography correctly.

[Lava Rock]

5 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

It’s shocking how many here can’t envision the “state of emergency” just being extended forever due to the next bad flu or “resurgent COVID.” Or maybe they are OK with that reality. 

This is what I am most concerned about. Where does one draw the line on the next outbreak. For instance, if flu cases next season seem to be ramping up more than usual, do we use these lockdowns and restrictions again, knowing that for decades we've never done this for flu? How many deaths would need to be met before restrictions were used? Who gets to decide if 50,000 or 100,000 deaths for flu would be too many and restrictions would need to be implemented. I just think covid has opened the door for future govt overreach.