The 2020-2021 Ski season thread

[ORH_wxman]

9 hours ago, PhineasC said:

I bought a vehicle in NH and put NH plates on it in part to avoid any issues if they suddenly decide to tighten the rules with something like plate checks at the resorts. NH has been pretty level-headed with the COVID restrictions, IMO. Some of the restrictions in other states seem a bit random or reactionary. I am not sure what to expect from states such as NY and VT this fall in terms of restrictions. I feel like any hint of a rise in new cases will send them back hard towards full lockdown.

Probably a good move re: NH plates. I definitely expect some states to freak out again this fall when cases jump back up (and they will), and that could affect access to ski resorts. 

[STILL N OF PIKE]

7 hours ago, ORH_wxman said:

Probably a good move re: NH plates. I definitely expect some states to freak out again this fall when cases jump back up (and they will), and that could affect access to ski resorts. 

My hope is to be able to ski NH for the full season and hopefully stay up north for any large snow storms where i'm able.

As far as that goes or especially out of state skiing ..i'm not very optimistic but i just don't see lodges being open past New Years. Just let the coughing begin, the news will smell the fear and report endlessly as fear sells clicks and 1/4 the population will go back into a state of news induced paralysis . What  remains of the economy in April should be fun to see. I don't know that cases will soar, they may but the fear of any cough being covid seems baked into the cake . 

That's my base case scenario as Covid 19 response , just has too much potential to facilitate some pain that will facilitate future  change that seems to be tied into other societal, climate, economic-technotronic and Covid group think solutions.(that may not otherwise be agreed upon w out various issues being magnified and all will seem fine with public when they camp out in front of the news all day all day,  encouraging folks into what are acceptable/preferred ideas.  The Global economic forum head Klaus Schwab is just very vocal , open and optimistic about these issue being in the forefront of the public mind and it works into the media's mindset for ratings to leverage these issues  all day long perpetually, not to sound nefarious just sort of what is . He wrote a book called the great reset which is a pretty straight forward look into shaping the future in a sustainable way and covid's role. I would avoid the knee-jerk conspiratorial perspectives/  ideas ...thats not my angle..and read the actual book, i just believe this is a noteworthy possibility not a lock.  Shaping society and governance over 7 billion people can not always be straight forward, transparent and done without significant suffering. It is worth noting the World Economic Forum often has lofty goals and ideas that move much slower or not at all, it just seems public perception and attention is aligned much better now for ...progress

 

[alex]

19 hours ago, PhineasC said:

I bought a vehicle in NH and put NH plates on it in part to avoid any issues if they suddenly decide to tighten the rules with something like plate checks at the resorts. NH has been pretty level-headed with the COVID restrictions, IMO. Some of the restrictions in other states seem a bit random or reactionary. I am not sure what to expect from states such as NY and VT this fall in terms of restrictions. I feel like any hint of a rise in new cases will send them back hard towards full lockdown.

We’ve had more seasonal rentals requests this year than ever before. It’s crazy. 

[PhineasC]

Just now, alex said:

We’ve had more seasonal rentals requests this year than ever before. It’s crazy. 

I’m really glad I bought the house in Randolph outright. I think some tight restrictions on out-of-staters and daily pass people could be coming. 

[PowderBeard]

4 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

I’m really glad I bought the house in Randolph outright. I think some tight restrictions on out-of-staters and daily pass people could be coming. 

That is a sweet place to be in terms of NH skiing. Don't know if I would ever leave Wildcat or Black Mountain. Anyone know if the woods of Black Mountain are still loaded with barbed wire?

[HoarfrostHubb]

42 minutes ago, PowderBeard said:

That is a sweet place to be in terms of NH skiing. Don't know if I would ever leave Wildcat or Black Mountain. Anyone know if the woods of Black Mountain are still loaded with barbed wire?

What the heck?  

[PowderBeard]

20 minutes ago, HoarfrostHubb said:

What the heck?  

There was a large barbed wire fence ~15 years ago to the left of the summit double. Then my buddy had his pants sliced open while skiing Carter Glades probably 7-8 years ago. I know the ski area boundary is old barbed wire on skiers left side of the area. There is/were also several old electric wire fences for keeping livestock and sap lines scattered around the woods of the lower mountain.  It gives a new meaning to "hidden obstacles." 

[Skivt2]

21 hours ago, PhineasC said:

I bought a vehicle in NH and put NH plates on it in part to avoid any issues if they suddenly decide to tighten the rules with something like plate checks at the resorts. NH has been pretty level-headed with the COVID restrictions, IMO. Some of the restrictions in other states seem a bit random or reactionary. I am not sure what to expect from states such as NY and VT this fall in terms of restrictions. I feel like any hint of a rise in new cases will send them back hard towards full lockdown.

We have only slept at our place in VT one night since 4/1 when we left after living there 4+ days a week all last winter.  A cool $5,000 down the drain in rent and utilities so far.  Our official residence is in Hartford county which continues to be on the VT quarantine list.  We plan to live in VT over this winter again and really don’t have a lot of reason to be in CT.  We are going to have to switch our registration on our new truck in VT and change our address with Killington to a PO Box.  There are calls to have VT mountains turn off season passes for those with quarantine county addresses.  We bought $2400 in season passes.  I’ll be damned if we can’t use it or the $950/a month apartment that we are paying for.  Keeping us out is just F’ing unacceptable.

[HoarfrostHubb]

37 minutes ago, PowderBeard said:

There was a large barbed wire fence ~15 years ago to the left of the summit double. Then my buddy had his pants sliced open while skiing Carter Glades probably 7-8 years ago. I know the ski area boundary is old barbed wire on skiers left side of the area. There is/were also several old electric wire fences for keeping livestock and sap lines scattered around the woods of the lower mountain.  It gives a new meaning to "hidden obstacles." 

Yeah. After reading your post I did a search and read about it on another forum.  Bizarre  

[TauntonBlizzard2013]

Like many other activities these days, it will really come down to the amount of restrictions put in place that determines if it’s even worth it.

I’ve seen some grumbling about most resorts requiring masks at all times, even though it’s outdoors. Is it that big of a deal? Most people have face covering on when skiing anyway.

Ive pretty much punted on any vacation activity until their is a breakthrough that allows things to return somewhat back to normal.

[PhineasC]

16 minutes ago, HoarfrostHubb said:

Yeah. After reading your post I did a search and read about it on another forum.  Bizarre  

I have never skied Black Mountain but it definitely appears to be very "rustic." I could see there being some debris just off the trails.

[powderfreak]

24 minutes ago, Skivt2 said:

We have only slept at our place in VT one night since 4/1 when we left after living there 4+ days a week all last winter.  A cool $5,000 down the drain in rent and utilities so far.  Our official residence is in Hartford county which continues to be on the VT quarantine list.  We plan to live in VT over this winter again and really don’t have a lot of reason to be in CT.  We are going to have to switch our registration on our new truck in VT and change our address with Killington to a PO Box.  There are calls to have VT mountains turn off season passes for those with quarantine county addresses.  We bought $2400 in season passes.  I’ll be damned if we can’t use it or the $950/a month apartment that we are paying for.  Keeping us out is just F’ing unacceptable.

Honestly the only ones I've seen of that are just wishful thinking locals at some mountains who think if they can keep people away it'll be the best winter of their lives.  Just like skinners this past spring wanting full access but also not wanting anyone to travel more than 10 minutes to the hill.... skiers are selfish when it comes to powder and honestly, humans are selfish and it's really shown in this whole thing.

No ski area is going to ban people based on billing zip code.  If anything it'll be lodging right now, where you sign a form that says you followed the quarantine rules.  Everyone has been signing those all summer long in Stowe, but we all know they aren't following it because it's impossible to go two weeks without coming into contact with anyone.  I bet Killington will have a reservation system like Vail announced.  I know Alterra is beta-testing one right now and likely rolls out a similar system.  The mountains want to know who is coming and it also helps the communities from becoming overwhelmed with people.  Lodging at only 50% also helps capacity. 

The one thing I keep remembering is to take a deep breath and remember that it's just ONE winter in a global pandemic.  Chances of a vaccine and moving past this are very high by winter 2021-22.  It's obviously not ideal or normal, but people are eating food at restaurant tables in parking lots right now and kids can't go to school full time.  That's where we are.  It is what it is this winter.  I'm just trying to enjoy every turn I take and if I do a lot less skiing than a normal winter, so be it.  There will be other winters, not the end of the world.

[powderfreak]

54 minutes ago, PowderBeard said:

There was a large barbed wire fence ~15 years ago to the left of the summit double. Then my buddy had his pants sliced open while skiing Carter Glades probably 7-8 years ago. I know the ski area boundary is old barbed wire on skiers left side of the area. There is/were also several old electric wire fences for keeping livestock and sap lines scattered around the woods of the lower mountain.  It gives a new meaning to "hidden obstacles." 

Yikes!  Our hidden obstacles are old racing timing wire that seems to be strung along a variety of trails and I know we've tried to remove a lot of it (I once walked Liftline and the woods pulling it up) but on the sides of some trails is still that thin black cable hung in trees from like 1950 that when the snowpack gets really deep, all the sudden there's this clothesline wire chest high in the woods.

Ski areas have all sorts of junk left over but barbed wire is a whole other ballgame, ha.  Good luck against that.

[PowderBeard]

7 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

The one thing I keep remembering is to take a deep breath and remember that it's just ONE winter in a global pandemic.  Chances of a vaccine and moving past this are very high by winter 2021-22.  It's obviously not ideal or normal, but people are eating food at restaurant tables in parking lots right now and kids can't go to school full time.  That's where we are.  It is what it is this winter.  I'm just trying to enjoy every turn I take and if I do a lot less skiing than a normal winter, so be it.  There will be other winters, not the end of the world.

Any out will be a bonus day. It may never start or end at anytime.

[PowderBeard]

4 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Yikes!  Our hidden obstacles are old racing timing wire that seems to be strung along a variety of trails and I know we've tried to remove a lot of it (I once walked Liftline and the woods pulling it up) but on the sides of some trails is still that thin black cable hung in trees from like 1950 that when the snowpack gets really deep, all the sudden there's this clothesline wire chest high in the woods.

Ski areas have all sorts of junk left over but barbed wire is a whole other ballgame, ha.  Good luck against that.

You have more than that up there (e.g., that stunning old portrait of Patrick Swayze in the woods lol).

[powderfreak]

5 hours ago, STILL N OF PIKE said:

My hope is to be able to ski NH for the full season and hopefully stay up north for any large snow storms where i'm able.

As far as that goes or especially out of state skiing ..i'm not very optimistic but i just don't see lodges being open past New Years. Just let the coughing begin, the news will smell the fear and report endlessly as fear sells clicks and 1/4 the population will go back into a state of news induced paralysis .

Disagree.  I think people have COVID fatigue.  It takes a lot of energy to stay safe, ha.  But yeah, you can see what happens when a lot of people get together indoors...there are universities across the US that are just baking out COVID positives like they are weed cookies in the dorm common kitchen. 

University of Alabama has had 1,000+ positive cases in the first 10 days of classes.... they found another like 400 in the past day or two.  Was it University of North Carolina that was open for 3 days before hundreds tested positive and they went to full online learning?  The best bet right now for everything from schools to businesses and ski resorts is to do anything to mitigate that, as you're pretty much forced to shut 'er down in a big outbreak.  Wearing a mask and capping skier visits is how the ski areas are going to try to do it.

Honestly, a reservation system on busy holiday periods might make for a better experience than the free for all crowds, ha.

[Skivt2]

2 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Honestly the only ones I've seen of that are just wishful thinking locals at some mountains who think if they can keep people away it'll be the best winter of their lives.  Just like skinners this past spring wanting full access but also not wanting anyone to travel more than 10 minutes to the hill.... skiers are selfish when it comes to powder and honestly, humans are selfish and it's really shown in this whole thing.

No ski area is going to ban people based on billing zip code.  If anything it'll be lodging right now, where you sign a form that says you followed the quarantine rules.  Everyone has been signing those all summer long in Stowe, but we all know they aren't following it because it's impossible to go two weeks without coming into contact with anyone.  I bet Killington will have a reservation system like Vail announced.  I know Alterra is beta-testing one right now and likely rolls out a similar system.  The mountains want to know who is coming and it also helps the communities from becoming overwhelmed with people.  Lodging at only 50% also helps capacity. 

The one thing is that it's just ONE winter in a global pandemic.  Chances of a vaccine and moving past this are very high by winter 2021-22.  It's obviously not ideal or normal, but people are eating food at restaurant tables in parking lots right now and kids can't go to school full time.  That's where we are.  It is what it is this winter.  I'm just trying to enjoy every turn I take and if I do a lot less skiing than a normal winter, so be it.  There will be other winters, not the end of the world.

Even if the winter is not normal we expect to be able to live in our place full time there and we plan to ski if the mountain is open.  But my husband currently needs to be in CT all day one day a week for his RN clinicals. Since Vermonters are allowed to travel without quarantining for essential travel is that our loophole?  Become a Vermonter and then that one day a week essential travel is not an issue?  Cape Cod is chock full of Vermont plates and has been for the past 3-4 weeks.  So the whining about out of staters in Vermont by so many Vermonters is super hypocritical.  We have been on the Cape all summer which is not a quarantine county.  I was tempted to contact VT and ask the following:  if our zip code is in a quarantine county but we have been living in a non-quarantine county for 6 weeks can we come to VT without quarantining?  Or.....if our legal zip code is in a quarantine county, but we live in Vermont from October 1st to January 20th (7 days a week), but one of us needs to go to CT to a quarantine county for work 1 day a week for essential travel does that one person needs to quarantine 100% of the time? Do we fall under the Vermont resident rule because we are living there or does our official zip code drive how the rules apply to us even if we are not living there. OMG What a cluster.  These rules just don’t make sense for everyone.  Not everyone lives a traditional lifestyle.  Grrrrr

 

 

 

 

[radarman]

I'd like to see the science behind a mask requirement on the hill.

[bch2014]

The mask requirement on hill.. Is it a surgical/cloth mask that goes around your ears or can I wear a fleece mask like I’d normally wear?

Seems heavy handed given the outdoor environment.

[powderfreak]

Just now, Skivt2 said:

Even if the winter is not normal we expect to be able to live in our place full time there and we plan to ski if the mountain is open.  But my husband currently needs to be in CT all day one day a week for his RN clinicals. Since Vermonters are allowed to travel without quarantining for essential travel is that our loophole?  Become a Vermonter and then that one day a week essential travel is not an issue?  Cape Cod is chock full of Vermont plates and has been for the past 3-4 weeks.  So the whining about out of staters in Vermont by so many Vermonters is super hypocritical.  We have been on the Cape all summer which is not a quarantine county.  I was tempted to contact VT and ask the following:  if our zip code is in a quarantine county but we have been living in a non-quarantine county for 6 weeks can we come to VT without quarantining?  Or.....if our legal zip code is in a quarantine county, but we live in Vermont from October 1st to January 20th (7 days a week), but one of us needs to go to CT to a quarantine county for work 1 day a week for essential travel does that one person needs to quarantine 100% of the time? Do we fall under the Vermont resident rule because we are living there or does our official zip code drive how the rules apply to us even if we are not living there. OMG What a cluster.  These rules just don’t make sense for everyone.  Not everyone lives a traditional lifestyle.  Grrrrr

Literally no one seems to be following that stuff that I can see.  There's no penalties it seems either.  So I wouldn't waste a ton of energy worrying about it for now.

And I still haven't seen anyone genuinely whining about out of staters, except some vocal minority of nut-bags online that want to keep everything for themselves.  If you remove the stuff you read online, you'd never even know it. 

I know you're in a tough spot but it's clunky in a lot of places that I can't imagine people are following.  I would think your husband traveling for clinicals is similar to traveling for a job and would be exempt.  Is it true that RI residents need to quarantine to visit MA?  Who's doing that?  It's all just political posturing by the states to try to cover their asses if things go south..."Look, see, we tried to restrict access."

Just enjoy the turns this winter and remember it's a privileged life we live to be able to do these leisure recreation activities, at least that's going to be my motto.  Like PowderBeard.

[PhineasC]

10 minutes ago, radarman said:

I'd like to see the science behind a mask requirement on the hill.

It's like the beaches. There was never any rational explanation for the concern over beaches, but, for whatever reason, people focused in on them as a major nexus of COVID spread. It never made much sense.

[Skivt2]

Should be interesting in the next couple days as there is a rumor of a cluster due to a big house party at Killington with locals and part-time residents. Hearing 6  are positive, others have symptoms and contact tracing has begun.  No one needs this for a variety of reasons but it’s sure to fan the flames.

[powderfreak]

Just now, bch2014 said:

The mask requirement on hill.. Is it a surgical/cloth mask that goes around your ears or can I wear a fleece mask like I’d normally wear?

Seems heavy handed given the outdoor environment.

Fleece or buff or neck gaiter or whatever is my understanding.  I wear one anyway, too.  Stowe's electronic signboard calls it a "face covering" not a mask.   Something you can pull up over your face.  I don't think there's any science to it except it helps to have a policy like that with no gray areas and most people wear them anyway.  That way you don't have to try to delineate where a mask is needed and where it's not.

To be honest, these are for-profit companies that aren't happy about restricting capacity (costing them money) but they need the season to happen.  They know they'll lose money this year but it's about business continuity.  The entire local economy also relies on the various ski resorts operating.  They also know that if there are COVID outbreaks and things aren't going well, they want to be able to appease local governments by saying "See, we require a mask or face covering and are doing our part to help both the economy and public health." 

[radarman]

11 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

It's like the beaches. There was never any rational explanation for the concern over beaches, but, for whatever reason, people focused in on them as a major nexus of COVID spread. It never made much sense.

I'd say the beaches are about 50/50 masks during schlep down but I've not experienced dirty looks because I think deep down folks know it's dumb. 

To be fair packed beaches occurred much earlier on with more uncertainty.  These days we have a whole summer sample size of minimal outdoor transmission to draw on.  If there's a mask requirement on the hill it's purely for the optics.

[radarman]

Hell the science says that porous, stretchy fabrics (common to gaiters) actually increase transmission.  And most actual ski masks literally have holes.

I also disagree that most wear them.  Maybe on the coldest days but not on the majority of days.  Imagine skinning with a mask?  LOL

 

[HoarfrostHubb]

Just read a depressing article about Wachusett.  All options on the table including limiting season pass sales, online sign ups for four different ski sessions per day, all outdoor dining etc. 

[HIPPYVALLEY]

Just now, HoarfrostHubb said:

Just read a depressing article about Wachusett.  All options on the table including limiting season pass sales, online sign ups for four different ski sessions per day, all outdoor dining etc. 

Ski resorts are going to be screwed if they start f'n around with season passes.  Limiting sales is one thing but if you start changing the rules mid-season you are opening yourself up to lawsuits no matter how many disclaimers you have in the contract. 

So far no word from Berkshire East and their subsidiaries about any Covid restrictions.  Makes me nervous because I only have 2 more days to buy the pass at a discount.

[powderfreak]

I just want this.  November 2018, early season snow and reducing the number of stick season days.

Followed by a day like this later in the winter.  Guess we go for quality over quantity this winter.

[radarman]

On the whole though I agree with PFs and PBs sentiment.  It'll be a full calendar year plus of having to roll with the punches, just gotta deal with what comes and appreciate whatever opportunities you have to be out in the snow.   We're all in on uphill, lift served we're treating as bonus.

 

[STILL N OF PIKE]

13 minutes ago, HIPPYVALLEY said:

Ski resorts are going to be screwed if they start f'n around with season passes.  Limiting sales is one thing but if you start changing the rules mid-season you are opening yourself up to lawsuits no matter how many disclaimers you have in the contract. 

So far no word from Berkshire East and their subsidiaries about any Covid restrictions.  Makes me nervous because I only have 2 more days to buy the pass at a discount.

I would say everything is on the table . There are zero certainties this winter. 

As a resort , which ones does it make financial sense for to shut down lodges, hotels / condos and leave the lifts spinning..are their any? I could see that coming when people are sneezing in every long line indoors this winter .

 The ones like Cannon and Wildcat probably see the most money as a percentage of total operations from their season pass holders as they don’t have much else going on besides selling beers and burgers . Thou if they aren’t owned by the big wigs they may not Have the $$ Cushion to handle a down year . Powder freak , any thoughts .