The 2020-2021 Ski season thread

[mreaves]

31 minutes ago, backedgeapproaching said:

I guess you are meaning lower elevations---you probably know Mt Equinox goes up to almost 4K.  They certainly average over 100" above 2K in the Taconic's of SVT.  No one lives above 1500' in the Taconic side of SVT, so hard to get any iron clad evidence of snowfall.  There are few guys I loosely know that do some back country skiing in the Taconic's west of Manchester, have no idea where exactly.

You are right that the Taconic's and Mt Equinox do pretty well on W/NW somewhat blocked uplsope flow. They can block some of that moisture from getting over to the Greens and Stratton, Bromley, etc at times and can relatively clean up while those areas get less. They don't do as well with strong E/SE obviously and they also can really torch, and have really bad retention--even the high elevations you can see melt out quickly at times say compared to much lower elevations east of the Greens.

Have always wondered why they never put in some type of ski area on Mt Equinox-- I mean you would have almost 3K of pretty steep vertical right down into the west side of Manchester.  I'm sure there were some political wrangling's going on over the decades that had a part in it.

"Davidson investigated but never carried out two other lofty mountain projects. He abandoned the notion of a ski resort on Mt. Equinox after candid consultations with Fred Pabst of the Wisconsin beer-brewing family. In the early 1930s Pabst had started his own ski area in the Taconic range, a few miles north of equinox in east Dorset, but found the snowfall there insufficient; he then met with far more success at the higher, south facing Big Bromley in Peru, in the Green Mountains. Davidson also considered a cable-driven railroad between his mountaintop and the Southern Vermont Art Center.  A funicular rail ride to the summit from the art center, the former Gertrude Devine Webster estate on an eastern flank of Equinox near Manchester, could have been a grand tourist attraction.  But its cost would have been prohibitive in relation to revenues gained during the brief warm-weather Season.  In any case, Davidson always "thought big" about his mountain."

 

http://www.equinoxmountain.com/earlytimes_davidson_phd.php

[LongBeachSurfFreak]

37 minutes ago, backedgeapproaching said:

I guess you are meaning lower elevations---you probably know Mt Equinox goes up to almost 4K.  They certainly average over 100" above 2K in the Taconic's of SVT.  No one lives above 1500' in the Taconic side of SVT, so hard to get any iron clad evidence of snowfall.  There are few guys I loosely know that do some back country skiing in the Taconic's west of Manchester, have no idea where exactly.

You are right that the Taconic's and Mt Equinox do pretty well on W/NW somewhat blocked uplsope flow. They can block some of that moisture from getting over to the Greens and Stratton, Bromley, etc at times and can relatively clean up while those areas get less. They don't do as well with strong E/SE obviously and they also can really torch, and have really bad retention--even the high elevations you can see melt out quickly at times say compared to much lower elevations east of the Greens.

Have always wondered why they never put in some type of ski area on Mt Equinox-- I mean you would have almost 3K of pretty steep vertical right down into the west side of Manchester.  I'm sure there were some political wrangling's going on over the decades that had a part in it.

I think about that all the time. Equinox has the potential for more vert then any mountain in Vermont. The terrain also appears to be very challenging (maybe too challenging) The lack of snowfall at the lower elevations part makes sense though in the days before snow making. It’s a perfect location too with a great town right there. 

[backedgeapproaching]

28 minutes ago, PowderBeard said:

It did not say where but even measuring at the base I would assume more than 98" a year at Equinox,. I doubt it is the true base of the auto road because that is several hundred feet lower than Manchester but would get an extra ~30".  If Stratton gets about 180" I would assume both of those would get over 200". 

Yea, living here I can tell you no chance in heck the base of auto road averages 98" at around 650ft-even though its close to the Taconic's.  More in the 75"ish range.  To get any real effect of the Taconic upslope you need to be a little higher and further west.  I have a friend who lives around 1350ft on the east slopes of the Taconic's  in Manchester and I can tell you the difference is STARK between that and say a little further east towards town in regards to snowfall. ( A sneaky good upslope spot is Shaftsbury NW of Bennington actually)  One strong cutter with a south wind and dews the Taconic's snowpack get's hurt really bad though, if not wiped out depending on how much is OTG.

[backedgeapproaching]

5 minutes ago, LongBeachSurfFreak said:

I think about that all the time. Equinox has the potential for more vert then any mountain in Vermont. The terrain also appears to be very challenging (maybe too challenging) The lack of snowfall at the lower elevations part makes sense though in the days before snow making. It’s a perfect location too with a great town right there. 

Yea, it almost seems too steep to have any slow cruiser trails, but I don't know enough about creating a ski resort, maybe it could be figured out logistically.  

But yea, just geographically speaking having a resort where the base is right in Manchester seems ideal on the face of it.  But yea, pre snowmaking ,snow retention would be a struggle below 1500-2000ft.

[PowderBeard]

21 minutes ago, backedgeapproaching said:

Yea, living here I can tell you no chance in heck the base of auto road averages 98" at around 650ft-even though its close to the Taconic's.  More in the 75"ish range.  To get any real effect of the Taconic upslope you need to be a little higher and further west.  I have a friend who lives around 1350ft on the east slopes of the Taconic's  in Manchester and I can tell you the difference is STARK between that and say a little further east towards town in regards to snowfall. ( A sneaky good upslope spot is Shaftsbury NW of Bennington actually)  One strong cutter with a south wind and dews the Taconic's snowpack get's hurt really bad though, if not wiped out depending on how much is OTG.

Shaftsbury for good upslope, must have been named by a skier who played the old "Greenland and Iceland" trick.

[backedgeapproaching]

40 minutes ago, mreaves said:

"Davidson investigated but never carried out two other lofty mountain projects. He abandoned the notion of a ski resort on Mt. Equinox after candid consultations with Fred Pabst of the Wisconsin beer-brewing family. In the early 1930s Pabst had started his own ski area in the Taconic range, a few miles north of equinox in east Dorset, but found the snowfall there insufficient; he then met with far more success at the higher, south facing Big Bromley in Peru, in the Green Mountains. Davidson also considered a cable-driven railroad between his mountaintop and the Southern Vermont Art Center.  A funicular rail ride to the summit from the art center, the former Gertrude Devine Webster estate on an eastern flank of Equinox near Manchester, could have been a grand tourist attraction.  But its cost would have been prohibitive in relation to revenues gained during the brief warm-weather Season.  In any case, Davidson always "thought big" about his mountain."

 

http://www.equinoxmountain.com/earlytimes_davidson_phd.php

Interesting, even in days of yore they knew the retention wasn't quite adequate

[mreaves]

2 hours ago, backedgeapproaching said:

Interesting, even in days of yore they knew the retention wasn't quite adequate

Looks like it.  I find the mention of a ski area in Dorset interesting along with the fact that Pabst packed it in and shuffled off down the road to Bromley.

[PowderBeard]

28 minutes ago, mreaves said:

Looks like it.  I find the mention of a ski area in Dorset interesting along with the fact that Pabst packed it in and shuffled off down the road to Bromley.

 

https://www.newenglandskihistory.com/cancelledskiareas/Vermont/dorsethollow.php

 

Just as interesting, Bigelow.

https://www.newenglandskihistory.com/cancelledskiareas/Maine/bigelowmtn.php

[powderfreak]

3 hours ago, mreaves said:

Looks like it.  I find the mention of a ski area in Dorset interesting along with the fact that Pabst packed it in and shuffled off down the road to Bromley.

The weird thing is Bromley faces like due south doesn’t it?  “The sun mountain” or whatever... wouldn’t think retention is all that much better on that aspect, despite holding cold air a bit longer in CAD situations.

Fascinating discussion guys.

[powderfreak]

6 hours ago, backedgeapproaching said:

Yea, it almost seems too steep to have any slow cruiser trails, but I don't know enough about creating a ski resort, maybe it could be figured out logistically.  

But yea, just geographically speaking having a resort where the base is right in Manchester seems ideal on the face of it.  But yea, pre snowmaking ,snow retention would be a struggle below 1500-2000ft.

Driving into Manchester features prominence right on par with the northern Greens for sure.  I used to be in awe as a kid when we’d go skiing on the weekends at like Bromley and Stratton.  When you get valleys at like 500-1000ft and peaks at 4000ft, that’s when it’s like, yeah that’s a hill.

[backedgeapproaching]

2 hours ago, PowderBeard said:

 

https://www.newenglandskihistory.com/cancelledskiareas/Vermont/dorsethollow.php

 

Just as interesting, Bigelow.

https://www.newenglandskihistory.com/cancelledskiareas/Maine/bigelowmtn.php

Super interesting read, honestly had no idea there was ever a plan for a resort there.  Funny how that area of Dorset Hollow is now an enclave of some of the priciest homes in SVT.--some absurd estates located there.

Got the promotion going nicely, would have been same ad if they did Mt Equinox:

Looks like some locals weren't having it in 1965. Guess it was always an exclusive enclave.

"	Anyway, rich old blood and even some young blood are complaining about the "rape" of Dorset mountain and its tranquil beauty destroyed by ski trails scarring the landscape and "those skiers" invading their privacy.

 

[GCWarrior]

Finally the deep cold starts to come in.  Looks like round the clock snowmaking at the local hill.

[mreaves]

24 minutes ago, backedgeapproaching said:

Super interesting read, honestly had no idea there was ever a plan for a resort there.  Funny how that area of Dorset Hollow is now an enclave of some of the priciest homes in SVT.--some absurd estates located there.

Got the promotion going nicely, would have been same ad if they did Mt Equinox:

Looks like some locals weren't having it in 1965. Guess it was always an exclusive enclave.

"	Anyway, rich old blood and even some young blood are complaining about the "rape" of Dorset mountain and its tranquil beauty destroyed by ski trails scarring the landscape and "those skiers" invading their privacy.

 

You know from living down there but Dorset is such old money. You can really feel it at the Field Club. I’ve always sort of though of Dorset as the old money and Manchester as the gauche, new money. Of course I live in the part of VT that is no money. 

[radarman]

Berkshire East has been hammering away and I saw cat tracks on the webcam tonignt.  Wonder if Pro Lurker has heard anything about opening?

[backedgeapproaching]

1 hour ago, powderfreak said:

The weird thing is Bromley faces like due south doesn’t it?  “The sun mountain” or whatever... wouldn’t think retention is all that much better on that aspect, despite holding cold air a bit longer in CAD situations.

Fascinating discussion guys.

Lol, yea faces pretty much due south.  Snow softens up quick once your hit FEB.  But yea, retention is certainly an issue without a deep base even though they are east of the spine just because of the Sun later on in the season. It would get more snow that the proposed Dorset sight, but looking at the rendering's the Dorset sight would face southwest, so they would get less snow and most likely similar or worse retention.

[GCWarrior]

2 minutes ago, radarman said:

Berkshire East has been hammering away and I saw cat tracks on the webcam tonignt.  Wonder if Pro Lurker has heard anything about opening?

Im a part time employee, I live only a few minutes away.  They have been hammering away.  We have some training this weekend.  They have no day tickets on sale until next Saturday so I'd assume that is opening day.  Seems good for snowmaking after this weekends warm up.  I think they would like to open with a decent amount of terrain even if it's on all manmade snow.  The storm next week won't help unless it takes a track like the 12z Euro. 

[backedgeapproaching]

3 hours ago, mreaves said:

You know from living down there but Dorset is such old money. You can really feel it at the Field Club. I’ve always sort of though of Dorset as the old money and Manchester as the gauche, new money. Of course I live in the part of VT that is no money. 

Oh for sure, Dorset feels like a preppy wealthy CT town, just picked up and dropped in SVT(with some VT charm).

Nice spot that someone probably uses 3-4 weeks a year...would have had a great view of Dorset Hollow Ski area 

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/5251_Dorset_VT_M40801-38583

 

[mreaves]

58 minutes ago, backedgeapproaching said:

Oh for sure, Dorset feels like a preppy wealthy CT town, just picked up and dropped in SVT(with some VT charm).

Nice spot that someone probably uses 3-4 weeks a year...would have had a great view of Dorset Hollow Ski area 

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/5251_Dorset_VT_M40801-38583

 

Lol. Nearly $40k per year for taxes. Nice place though. 

[PowderBeard]

IDK, have to teach the grounds crew how to properly stripe the law, install inserts/stoves into those fireplace areas, rip all that shit out of the Yankees themed bedroom-bathroom suite. A lot of work, they should probably pay me to take it off their hands. 

[backedgeapproaching]

44 minutes ago, PowderBeard said:

IDK, have to teach the grounds crew how to properly stripe the law, install inserts/stoves into those fireplace areas, rip all that shit out of the Yankees themed bedroom-bathroom suite. A lot of work, they should probably pay me to take it off their hands. 

Not to mention the row of edges blocking your view while doing laps in the pool.  At this point I think we can all agree the place just needs to be razed. 

[tamarack]

19 hours ago, PowderBeard said:

 

https://www.newenglandskihistory.com/cancelledskiareas/Vermont/dorsethollow.php

 

Just as interesting, Bigelow.

https://www.newenglandskihistory.com/cancelledskiareas/Maine/bigelowmtn.php

Since our agency has managed the Bigelow Preserve for 40+ years, I was quite interested in the article, and especially in the Olympics dreams, which were long dead by the time we moved to Maine in 1973.  I voted for the Bigelow Act in 1976, and despite the capital "P", the Act states that the Preserve is to be managed for "recreation, wildlife and timber."  Since the initial cutting late in fall of 1982, the Bureau of Parks and Lands has harvested over 160,000 cords, much of it from areas in view from those summit pics.  Bigelow holds some of the highest quality hardwood timber in New England.

A few comments:
--The cited 10,540 acres represent the ecological reserve allocated in 2000, which covers the ridgeline down to 1,900' plus mile-plus width extensions to the property lines both north and south, so to include significant area in all ecological communities present.  The total area at Bigelow is a bit over 37,000 acres, which started with the purchase from Flagstaff Corp and continued through multiple land trades, usually in exchange for scattered original Public Lots.
--The Bigelow Lodge was built mainly to wine and dine prospective investors.  The never built ski area lodge would've been larger and with the biggest windows facing the mountain rather than the lake as in the current building.  It's now used mainly for training Maine Conservation Corp workers and as a warming hut in winter.
--I chuckled a bit at the plans for marinas.  Flagstaff is mainly quite shallow as it's an impoundment of the Dead River to store water for Kennebec River hydro at Bingham and Solon.  There are very shallow flats, considerable submerged old stumps and varying water levels that make the lake hazardous for high powered boats.  That plus the absence of a coldwater fishery pretty much leaves this 4th biggest of Maine lakes to small outboards and paddlecraft, a situation unique among th state's larger lakes.

[tamarack]

And I have no a idea why the pic was reproduced on my post.  

[Lava Rock]

4 hours ago, tamarack said:

Since our agency has managed the Bigelow Preserve for 40+ years, I was quite interested in the article, and especially in the Olympics dreams, which were long dead by the time we moved to Maine in 1973.  I voted for the Bigelow Act in 1976, and despite the capital "P", the Act states that the Preserve is to be managed for "recreation, wildlife and timber."  Since the initial cutting late in fall of 1982, the Bureau of Parks and Lands has harvested over 160,000 cords, much of it from areas in view from those summit pics.  Bigelow holds some of the highest quality hardwood timber in New England.

A few comments:
--The cited 10,540 acres represent the ecological reserve allocated in 2000, which covers the ridgeline down to 1,900' plus mile-plus width extensions to the property lines both north and south, so to include significant area in all ecological communities present.  The total area at Bigelow is a bit over 37,000 acres, which started with the purchase from Flagstaff Corp and continued through multiple land trades, usually in exchange for scattered original Public Lots.
--The Bigelow Lodge was built mainly to wine and dine prospective investors.  The never built ski area lodge would've been larger and with the biggest windows facing the mountain rather than the lake as in the current building.  It's now used mainly for training Maine Conservation Corp workers and as a warming hut in winter.
--I chuckled a bit at the plans for marinas.  Flagstaff is mainly quite shallow as it's an impoundment of the Dead River to store water for Kennebec River hydro at Bingham and Solon.  There are very shallow flats, considerable submerged old stumps and varying water levels that make the lake hazardous for high powered boats.  That plus the absence of a coldwater fishery pretty much leaves this 4th biggest of Maine lakes to small outboards and paddlecraft, a situation unique among th state's larger lakes.

Was snowmobiling across Flagstaff last year over to the Lodge. Always a little nervous riding down that lake.

[tamarack]

34 minutes ago, Lava Rock said:

Was snowmobiling across Flagstaff last year over to the Lodge. Always a little nervous riding down that lake.

As you should be, thanks to currents and drawdowns.  Some years back, one of the Brochu family, with decades of experience riding in the area, was lost when he went thru the ice.

[radarman]

Berkshire East just announced opening on Thurs 12/17

[Professional Lurker]

Im a part time employee, I live only a few minutes away.  They have been hammering away.  We have some training this weekend.  They have no day tickets on sale until next Saturday so I'd assume that is opening day.  Seems good for snowmaking after this weekends warm up.  I think they would like to open with a decent amount of terrain even if it's on all manmade snow.  The storm next week won't help unless it takes a track like the 12z Euro. 

What do you do there?

I ran these rental shop about 10 years ago and lately have just been parking cars on the weekends for passes. I can't do that this year due tp my 'real job' schedule but plan to work in some capacity there.

Kinda a blessing in disguise, as the lot this year will be a shit show with people gearing up at their cars. There's a science to maximizing the Berkshire east parking lot and I enjoy the challenge, but it's time to pass the torch.

Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

[CoastalWx]

VT handing out fines left and right I guess?  That’s gonna suck.

[powderfreak]

33 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

VT handing out fines left and right I guess?  That’s gonna suck.

Ha what?  First family this morning in the shop was from Peachtree, Georgia.  Yesterday people were talking about their flight from Fort Lauderdale.  I’m definitely getting the Vid at some point.  People from all over pouring in.  It’s a fight just to get them to wear masks much less follow any other guidance.  

Personally I can’t imagine doing that but to each their own.  

[mreaves]

45 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

VT handing out fines left and right I guess?  That’s gonna suck.

I haven’t heard that. 

[CoastalWx]

Just now, mreaves said:

I haven’t heard that. 

Friend of mine knows of two people that got fined.