The 2020-2021 Ski season thread

[bwt3650]

The country needs to heal.  Too many divisive issues compounded by Social media.  

Best time of year though, for this crew.  The stoke building and watching the long range Gfs for a little hint of that window when snowmaking can start.  It’s getting real.

[PhineasC]

1 minute ago, bwt3650 said:

The country needs to heal.  Too many divisive issues compounded by Social media.  

Best time of year though, for this crew.  The stoke building and watching the long range Gfs for a little hint of that window when snowmaking can start.  It’s getting real.

As long as people stay out of the lodges as much as possible, skiing should be one of those activities that can proceed close to normally even with COVID. Everyone wants to be socially-distanced while skiing even without a pandemic going on.  

[Hitman]

2 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

That's very true. I am not trying to work at a physical office or retail location in NH, it's probably a different story for those folks. I also know I'm in a fairly off the beaten path area. We do notice a little bit more of a "heightened awareness" of COVID when we are in North Conway, for example. We have been chalking that up to the large numbers of tourists from Mass kinda bringing that vibe with them however. 

It does seem like VT has chosen to go on one end of the COVID safety spectrum, whereas some states like FL have been far at the other end. I've been into VT a few times for various things and it does seem like just anecdotally more things are shut down and restricted there than in NH. That said, I haven't seen any hostility from anyone, but as noted before I am pretty oblivious to all that and couldn't care less anyway, as long as I am following the rules.

I work at an office in nyc and we have similar protocols.  We can argue whether these rules are necessary or too stringent, but it appears that vt has been successful in keeping the virus under control.  I think ny state has done well too since the initial wave in the spring.  The recent uptick in communities that abandoned precautions like mask wearing and social distancing, I believe, is further evidence that these rules matter.

my daughter is a student at a college which has been highly successful in controlling the virus despite in person classes and dormitory living.  The school does surveillance testing.  Every student faculty member and employee is tested twice a week.  They’re doing some 6k tests everyday and the positivity rate is .01%.  I think the testing, or more particularly, the knowledge that they will be tested every 3 days, has imbued the students with a healthy respect for the mandated precautions.  They aren’t engaging in risky behavior because they know 2 days later they’re going to get tested.  And if they fail the test, it’s a 2 week quarantine at best, and if they broke the rules, the possibility of getting kicked out of school and losing their tuition.

[TauntonBlizzard2013]

16 minutes ago, tamarack said:

Maybe it's because of my job site (when not working at home) or something, but Maine - for all its protest-generating restrictions - seems very low key compared to what I'm reading about here.  We have a sign-in site on the state website for when we plan to be in our office building and must wear masks there unless we're in a socially distant cubicle (like mine) but there was no other restrictions and I traveled all over northern Maine last week with no problems.  (Our auditor from Vermont came and went freely; the other auditor is from Sault Ste. Marie, ON and "attended" the opening and closing meetings on Teams.)  Maine has had some recent outbreaks but the overall case numbers are second lowest of any state.  Vermont is lowest, and maybe they're going overboard to remain #1?

Yeah... from people I talk to, what is happening at my place of employment is on the extreme end of things. I don’t think what you have to do is to bad, I’d actually say that sounds fairly normal, without going overboard. Just try to keep track of when people will physically be in buildings, and wear a mask.

[Whineminster]

25 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

As long as people stay out of the lodges as much as possible, skiing should be one of those activities that can proceed close to normally even with COVID. Everyone wants to be socially-distanced while skiing even without a pandemic going on.  

I don't even really like going to the lodges during a normal season lol......places are always packed with snotty nose drippers, people coughing, stuff all over the table.  I always try to find a quiet spot ASAP lol. 

It's a different vibe from even here versus towards Boston.  Out here people wear masks in stores or whatever but that's about it. Was in Brookline MA this weekend and it's like everyone wears a mask 24/7.....everyone while driving, everyone outside....in the park playing with your dog.   I'm all set with being that extreme. 

[PhineasC]

28 minutes ago, Hitman said:

I work at an office in nyc and we have similar protocols.  We can argue whether these rules are necessary or too stringent, but it appears that vt has been successful in keeping the virus under control.  I think ny state has done well too since the initial wave in the spring.  The recent uptick in communities that abandoned precautions like mask wearing and social distancing, I believe, is further evidence that these rules matter.

my daughter is a student at a college which has been highly successful in controlling the virus despite in person classes and dormitory living.  The school does surveillance testing.  Every student faculty member and employee is tested twice a week.  They’re doing some 6k tests everyday and the positivity rate is .01%.  I think the testing, or more particularly, the knowledge that they will be tested every 3 days, has imbued the students with a healthy respect for the mandated precautions.  They aren’t engaging in risky behavior because they know 2 days later they’re going to get tested.  And if they fail the test, it’s a 2 week quarantine at best, and if they broke the rules, the possibility of getting kicked out of school and losing their tuition.

Everyone has different levels of risk they will tolerate and people handle this tradeoff between safety and convenience differently. There is no one-size-fits-all solution. 

[mreaves]

1 hour ago, PhineasC said:

That's very true. I am not trying to work at a physical office or retail location in NH, it's probably a different story for those folks. I also know I'm in a fairly off the beaten path area. We do notice a little bit more of a "heightened awareness" of COVID when we are in North Conway, for example. We have been chalking that up to the large numbers of tourists from Mass kinda bringing that vibe with them however. 

It does seem like VT has chosen to go on one end of the COVID safety spectrum, whereas some states like FL have been far at the other end. I've been into VT a few times for various things and it does seem like just anecdotally more things are shut down and restricted there than in NH. That said, I haven't seen any hostility from anyone, but as noted before I am pretty oblivious to all that and couldn't care less anyway, as long as I am following the rules.

My experience here is much closer to yours.  I semi-regularly drive to NH for Home Depot or BJ's and don't notice a whole lot of difference.  I'm not sure what is shut down or restricted more in VT than in NH.  I also know that I am incredibly lucky.  My wife and I can easily work from home and my son goes to school remotely.  Other than things like going to the fair or travelling out of state, our lives have been minimally disrupted.  Most of the activities we partake in are outdoors such as golf and hiking and have been ongoing.  We will notice more as we move into winter since my son and I like to go to college hockey and basketball games.  

[mreaves]

1 hour ago, tamarack said:

Maybe it's because of my job site (when not working at home) or something, but Maine - for all its protest-generating restrictions - seems very low key compared to what I'm reading about here.  We have a sign-in site on the state website for when we plan to be in our office building and must wear masks there unless we're in a socially distant cubicle (like mine) but there was no other restrictions and I traveled all over northern Maine last week with no problems.  (Our auditor from Vermont came and went freely; the other auditor is from Sault Ste. Marie, ON and "attended" the opening and closing meetings on Teams.)  Maine has had some recent outbreaks but the overall case numbers are second lowest of any state.  Vermont is lowest, and maybe they're going overboard to remain #1?

If I want to go into our office I have pretty similar requirements as you describe.  Schedule my office time on a shared calendar, answer a health survey and wear a mask when away from my desk.  

[Hitman]

22 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

Everyone has different levels of risk they will tolerate and people handle this tradeoff between safety and convenience differently. There is no one-size-fits-all solution. 

I get that and while I agree on an individual level, not sure I agree at the societal level.  Its becoming pretty clear, that where there is a collective relaxation of adherence to precautionary measures, viral transmission explodes.  We saw that here In the NY metro in the insular ultra orthodox communities over the jewish holidays.  I have family and friends in those communities and anyone paying attention knew it was going to happen when they gathered in large numbers in mid september.  Now NYC schools have been able to operate because viral transmission levels are relatively low with an overall test positivity rate a little over 1%.  But in those communities where they threw caution to the wind, the positivity rate jumped to 15-25% and the schools had to be shut down.  If we want to get back to pre pandemic levels of economic activity, viral transmission must be kept under control.  To keep the virus under control, collectively we have to adhere to certain minimum precautions.  I don't have any problem with any one individual choosing to be more or less cautious, but we can't collectively abandon the weapons we have in this fight.

[tamarack]

1 hour ago, mreaves said:

If I want to go into our office I have pretty similar requirements as you describe.  Schedule my office time on a shared calendar, answer a health survey and wear a mask when away from my desk.  

Have not yet had to answer a health survey for my job - closest was a survey of attitudes concerning working from home or at the office, as the former has increased more than 10-fold due to the pandemic.  So far, my agency (Bureau of Parks and Lands) has had no positive tests.  Since that includes many who routinely work face to face with the public (mostly Parks employees, like those collecting entry fees at the gate) it's somewhat surprising.

[J.Spin]

50 minutes ago, mreaves said:

Other than things like going to the fair or travelling out of state, our lives have been minimally disrupted.  Most of the activities we partake in are outdoors such as golf and hiking and have been ongoing.

I actually hadn’t thought about it until you pointed it out, but that may be one of the cultural factors in why Vermont has had success in keeping viral spread somewhat low.  Yes, we know that having low population density can help, but it’s clearly not the only factor in low positivity as Dr. Fauci pointed out when he had that virtual visit to one of Governor Scott’s press conferences.  It’s been building for a while, but you’ll certainly see the pandemic ennui being discussed in the national news.  People are sick of dealing with the pandemic and just want to live their lives again, so it can be hard to stick to the public health measures like masking and social distancing.  If you live in a big city and your typical pastimes are going to parties, clubbing, dining out, shopping, attending large sporting events, theatre, or whatever, then the current levels of social distancing are probably quite a hassle.  When your typical pastimes are hunting, fishing, biking, hiking, kayaking, skiing, etc., the distancing restrictions don’t really have a huge effect.  Sure, I’d love for the pandemic to be over, but outside of modifying aspects of work, my everyday life has been pretty much the same.  I can go on daily MTB rides, hike, kayak, ski, or whatever.  The most notable issue with respect to outdoor activities around here was that brief period where resorts didn’t even want people ski touring, but I think we’ve advanced far enough in our knowledge of the virus and pandemic that they’re not going to go to that extreme again.  We know a lot of people live here in Vermont for the outdoor lifestyle and activities, things that can easily accommodate social distancing.  It just makes sense that the less your everyday life is impacted by the current regulations, the less of an issue there’s going to be with regard to pandemic fatigue, and the easier it is to stick to the public health guidelines.

[powderfreak]

1 hour ago, mreaves said:

My experience here is much closer to yours.  I semi-regularly drive to NH for Home Depot or BJ's and don't notice a whole lot of difference.  I'm not sure what is shut down or restricted more in VT than in NH.  I also know that I am incredibly lucky.  My wife and I can easily work from home and my son goes to school remotely.  Other than things like going to the fair or travelling out of state, our lives have been minimally disrupted.  Most of the activities we partake in are outdoors such as golf and hiking and have been ongoing.  We will notice more as we move into winter since my son and I like to go to college hockey and basketball games.  

Yeah there’s nothing I can’t do... everything is open.  Movie theater and bowling alley and all, but I’m not big on that stuff anyway.  Don’t know one thing closed around here.

But I do think folks are still quite sensitive to the public health guidelines, maybe more than other parts of the U.S.

[Skivt2]

1 hour ago, mreaves said:

If I want to go into our office I have pretty similar requirements as you describe.  Schedule my office time on a shared calendar, answer a health survey and wear a mask when away from my desk.  

I would have to do the same.  I work for a Fortune 500 company.  30k employees working from home.  Have to get permission to go to our office building ie questionnaire and manager permission etc.

[mreaves]

1 hour ago, mreaves said:

My experience here is much closer to yours.  I semi-regularly drive to NH for Home Depot or BJ's and don't notice a whole lot of difference.  I'm not sure what is shut down or restricted more in VT than in NH.  I also know that I am incredibly lucky.  My wife and I can easily work from home and my son goes to school remotely.  Other than things like going to the fair or travelling out of state, our lives have been minimally disrupted.  Most of the activities we partake in are outdoors such as golf and hiking and have been ongoing.  We will notice more as we move into winter since my son and I like to go to college hockey and basketball games.  

One change, right now I am virtually attending a national training that I would have been in Albuquerque for if not for the pandemic. 

[Whineminster]

14 minutes ago, mreaves said:

One change, right now I am virtually attending a national training that I would have been in Albuquerque for if not for the pandemic. 

yup that's been the biggest bummer for many.  I should have been in New Mexico and Germany this summer......canceled! 

[PowderBeard]

Interesting to hear some rumblings of Killington using RFID to track the counties where folks are coming from. Friend went mountain biking at Killington a couple weeks ago and they mentioned it. Second time I have heard this. Be curious if this practice keeps up for winter and if they are actually turning people away. 

[bwt3650]

11 minutes ago, PowderBeard said:

Interesting to hear some rumblings of Killington using RFID to track the counties where folks are coming from. Friend went mountain biking at Killington a couple weeks ago and they mentioned it. Second time I have heard this. Be curious if this practice keeps up for winter and if they are actually turning people away. 

But how would they be able to turn people away that are from a red county, but who actually did the quarantine, or who have moved to vt. for several weeks at a time, which I think may be a reality with so many working from home?  I assume they would use the address where passes were mailed or registered to?  I think they are really pushing the boundary legally if they start that.  

[PhineasC]

9 minutes ago, bwt3650 said:

But how would they be able to turn people away that are from a red county, but who actually did the quarantine, or who have moved to vt. for several weeks at a time, which I think may be a reality with so many working from home?  I assume they would use the address where passes were mailed or registered to?  I think they are really pushing the boundary legally if they start that.  

I feel like businesses will have wide latitude to take whatever precautions they want to in the name of "safety" and "public health." Judges will say it's more important to "stay safe" than ski... just the reality of where society is with this virus right now.

[PowderBeard]

14 minutes ago, bwt3650 said:

But how would they be able to turn people away that are from a red county, but who actually did the quarantine, or who have moved to vt. for several weeks at a time, which I think may be a reality with so many working from home?  I assume they would use the address where passes were mailed or registered to?  I think they are really pushing the boundary legally if they start that.  

Yea I really don't have a clue. Someone on a forum mentioned it a few weeks ago and I thought it was BS. Mike S mentioned on the K-Zone forums they could and were not but clearly they are getting the info somehow. Maybe trying something before ski season? 

 

Side note, since they are going straight to T2B skiing, I wonder about their opening plan. Maybe get Snowdon lifts and Superstar Quad areas blown in and forget the Ridge? I would take that plan over the Ridge to Great Northern any year. 

[SJonesWX]

I am a fairly infrequent skier, but based on all the above discussion, I’ll be staying out of VT this year. I don’t go there very often anyway, so it’s no loss for them. but the restrictions are just getting silly. NH is wide open, and has been very busy all summer. the traffic heading up I93 on fridays has been just as busy as any other year.

[bwt3650]

37 minutes ago, PowderBeard said:

Yea I really don't have a clue. Someone on a forum mentioned it a few weeks ago and I thought it was BS. Mike S mentioned on the K-Zone forums they could and were not but clearly they are getting the info somehow. Maybe trying something before ski season? 

 

Side note, since they are going straight to T2B skiing, I wonder about their opening plan. Maybe get Snowdon lifts and Superstar Quad areas blown in and forget the Ridge? I would take that plan over the Ridge to Great Northern any year. 

I think just locking them by straight up county would be easy for them, but I don’t see how they handle the quarantine aspect of it.  And to just flat out lock out counties I think presents a legal argument...Vermont currently is not preventing interstate travel, they are just setting guidelines on how to do it...just my opinion, but I certainly believe you that it was/is being discussed.

 

I would agree get Snowdon first then you have the six pack and triple going at the same time to help with lift lines due to the restrictions..maybe they work on skye peak or bear earlier than usual to spread people out to that base area?  I’m not that familiar with their usual opening besides the ridge then snowdon.

[PowderBeard]

42 minutes ago, bwt3650 said:

I think just locking them by straight up county would be easy for them, but I don’t see how they handle the quarantine aspect of it.  And to just flat out lock out counties I think presents a legal argument...Vermont currently is not preventing interstate travel, they are just setting guidelines on how to do it...just my opinion, but I certainly believe you that it was/is being discussed.

 

I would agree get Snowdon first then you have the six pack and triple going at the same time to help with lift lines due to the restrictions..maybe they work on skye peak or bear earlier than usual to spread people out to that base area?  I’m not that familiar with their usual opening besides the ridge then snowdon.

Yes and I also wonder about the legal troubles for ski areas since they have the info available (e.g., RFID, driver's licenses, pass mailing locations, credit card zip codes). If there is an outbreak that is traced to their mountain from those "red" individuals I could see an easy lawsuit there (profits > lives!). I'm not sure if there is a legal problem with refusing based on county due to the travel restrictions (I'm sure someone will try to make a discrimination case from it). It reminds me of how NH gun stores will refuse to sell ammo to Mass and CT residents because they have that info available to them via driver's licenses and credit card zip code/billing info. 

In terms of opening Bear is a great idea to spread things out. I imagine they are in no rush to open K1 given the confined space and decreased area capacity. Maybe Snowdon to Canyon and Ridge area via Kilink and East Fall.  Then Skye Peak to Bear via Skyeburst/Gateway/Stash. Finally work on Rams/Snowshed (unless lodging is pre-packed for the late December holiday week). 

 

[powderfreak]

2 hours ago, SJonesWX said:

I am a fairly infrequent skier, but based on all the above discussion, I’ll be staying out of VT this year. I don’t go there very often anyway, so it’s no loss for them. but the restrictions are just getting silly. NH is wide open, and has been very busy all summer. the traffic heading up I93 on fridays has been just as busy as any other year.

I posted some shots a few nights ago in the banter thread I think.  It’s been just as busy in Stowe as any other fall foliage season.  Huge traffic jams, long waits for everything, etc.  Just packed.  IMO the quarantine guidelines seem to be just that... guidelines (with no enforcement) not laws.

Its like the State said “The speed limit guideline on the highway is 65mph, but no there will be no enforcement, no troopers, no radar guns.”  Everyone would drive however they please.

Just this morning was chatting with a car rally that stayed overnight here and they were from all over the country.  Lamborghinis, Ferrari’s, Bentley, Rolls Royce, Porsche’s, etc...impressive cars.  They were over in North Conway I think and next stop is Lake Placid.

There was probably $2 million in the parking lot in vehicles.

[Skivt2]

9 hours ago, PowderBeard said:

Yes and I also wonder about the legal troubles for ski areas since they have the info available (e.g., RFID, driver's licenses, pass mailing locations, credit card zip codes). If there is an outbreak that is traced to their mountain from those "red" individuals I could see an easy lawsuit there (profits > lives!). I'm not sure if there is a legal problem with refusing based on county due to the travel restrictions (I'm sure someone will try to make a discrimination case from it). It reminds me of how NH gun stores will refuse to sell ammo to Mass and CT residents because they have that info available to them via driver's licenses and credit card zip code/billing info. 

In terms of opening Bear is a great idea to spread things out. I imagine they are in no rush to open K1 given the confined space and decreased area capacity. Maybe Snowdon to Canyon and Ridge area via Kilink and East Fall.  Then Skye Peak to Bear via Skyeburst/Gateway/Stash. Finally work on Rams/Snowshed (unless lodging is pre-packed for the late December holiday week). 

 

I’m paying $11,000 a year for an apartment in VT that I am moving to just before thanksgiving after quarantining and I am planning to stay there until at least January 26th. By November I will have paid 8 months for nothing but the privilege of moving there for two months since I have only been there 3 nights since 4/1.  I need to get some of my stuff.  Yes I quarantined...don’t even go there.  So help me god, if they lock my pass, I will sue them for discrimination. 

[TauntonBlizzard2013]

3 minutes ago, Skivt2 said:

I’m paying $11,000 a year for an apartment in VT that I am moving to just before thanksgiving after quarantining and I am planning to stay there until at least January 26th.  So help me god, if they lock my pass, I will sue them for discrimination. 

Good luck, they are more than likely going to have the backing of local and state officials if they do that. 
 

It may not be right, but pretty much anything is flying these days. If they can force businesses to stay closed for weeks and months they can and may decide who’s skiing and who’s not.

[Skivt2]

46 minutes ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

Good luck, they are more than likely going to have the backing of local and state officials if they do that. 
 

It may not be right, but pretty much anything is flying these days. If they can force businesses to stay closed for weeks and months they can and may decide who’s skiing and who’s not.

Sure.  I have an appointment at VT DMV as I’m considering changing my license and my car registration.  I have a year long apartment lease and a renters policy.  I have enough to prove residency should I chose to do that. If I move to VT on 11/25 what is the deal?  My pass is still locked because I lived in CT when they mailed the pass.  Seriously. Like I actually could just become a VT resident. Then what?  And then what would CT do?  Any idea how hard CT will fight to prevent you from changing your domicile because they want your income tax?  If I make the move and it’s an issue VT and CT can fight it out in court.  This whole thing is f’d up.

[alex]

9 hours ago, powderfreak said:

I posted some shots a few nights ago in the banter thread I think.  It’s been just as busy in Stowe as any other fall foliage season.  Huge traffic jams, long waits for everything, etc.  Just packed.  IMO the quarantine guidelines seem to be just that... guidelines (with no enforcement) not laws.

Its like the State said “The speed limit guideline on the highway is 65mph, but no there will be no enforcement, no troopers, no radar guns.”  Everyone would drive however they please.

Just this morning was chatting with a car rally that stayed overnight here and they were from all over the country.  Lamborghinis, Ferrari’s, Bentley, Rolls Royce, Porsche’s, etc...impressive cars.  They were over in North Conway I think and next stop is Lake Placid.

There was probably $2 million in the parking lot in vehicles.

I think if there is anything that this summer experience can teach us is that visitors haven’t really lead to a significant outbreak anywhere in NH and certainly not in the North Country. We’ve been sold out every weekend since July. There’s been an invasion of visitors and it’s still happening, but the cases have been pretty stable and the slight resurgence mostly tied to schools and colleges and a few events

[bwt3650]

1 hour ago, Skivt2 said:

Sure.  I have an appointment at VT DMV as I’m considering changing my license and my car registration.  I have a year long apartment lease and a renters policy.  I have enough to prove residency should I chose to do that. If I move to VT on 11/25 what is the deal?  My pass is still locked because I lived in CT when they mailed the pass.  Seriously. Like I actually could just become a VT resident. Then what?  And then what would CT do?  Any idea how hard CT will fight to prevent you from changing your domicile because they want your income tax?  If I make the move and it’s an issue VT and CT can fight it out in court.  This whole thing is f’d up.

I really think you will be fine.  There is a reason they are preaching education as opposed to enforcement.  No one wants to deal with all the legal issues nor figure out a way to enforce the quarantine.  They just want people to do what you are doing and follow the guidelines...which by the way I don’t agree with, but will follow.  Day trippers driving up, booting up in their car, spending a morning on the mountain, then driving back are not going to lead to an outbreak.

[powderfreak]

49 minutes ago, alex said:

I think if there is anything that this summer experience can teach us is that visitors haven’t really lead to a significant outbreak anywhere in NH and certainly not in the North Country. We’ve been sold out every weekend since July. There’s been an invasion of visitors and it’s still happening, but the cases have been pretty stable and the slight resurgence mostly tied to schools and colleges and a few events

Yup I actually have been making that same point a lot lately whenever it comes up.

 

[Skivt2]

Cape Cod worked it out and stayed green on VT’s quarantine through out summer tourist season with no travel restrictions.  I think Vermont should be able to figure this out.  Seriously.