The 2020-2021 Ski season thread

[mcglups]

Yes.  The COVID situation is real and something we've been managing in my area, hoping our active case rate stays low as current VT guidelines have us not requiring quarantine 

8 hours ago, Skivt2 said:

Just be ready to sign a legal document that you quarantined when you go to VT.  And be prepared for people in VT to assume you did not quarantine even if you did.  I expect that if there are massive numbers of weekender skiers and cases start spiking in Vermont there will be some unpleasant confrontations between those with green plates and those with other colored plates.  People up there have been very vocal this summer about wanting people from out of state to stay away.  I’m sure they will become more vocal and act more vigilante as The virus spikes and ski tourism spikes.  We are moving to Vermont for part of November, December and January.  We plan to change our plates which is going to be a big hassle but hopefully it will allow us to be comfortable and safe from any confrontations or vandalism while we are living there.  We are fortunate to live trailside so we have our own private base lodge.  That said, it would not surprise me in the least to see the whole thing shut down.  Don’t be the reason we lose our season.

 

[PhineasC]

36 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Don't generalize it that far.  It's the same as it has been all summer, it seems like it's Facebook and the Killington area.  I've had several people mention the same Killington FB group that Jen references as being extremely toxic.

Killington is also the most visited ski resort in the entire Northeast, so maybe there is some friction there given the scale of things in that area, who knows.

I was mostly posting in jest. I personally don't find it too likely out-of-state cars are being vandalized and people are regularly being confronted, but I realize some people have a different definition of a confrontation and may be bothered by nasty looks and the like. It is also 2020 so I guess I can't rule out windows getting smashed over license plates. I just ignore all that stuff, especially if it's just some old local granny smirking at me. LOL

[mreaves]

2 hours ago, Skivt2 said:

Just because you have not heard of it does not mean it had not happened.  My Aunt and Uncles’s friend had their out of state car vandalized. These are rational adults in their 70’s who would not make something up.  I had several friends screamed at general stores.  I have been confronted as to why I was in Vermont by a guy who does maintenance in our complex. You have green plates. It’s like telling someone from a minority group that there is no such thing as racism because you have never experienced it.  I don’t think it’s really the ski area people as much as everyone else.  Let’s face it, the Burlington area is a bit more cosmopolitan than central VT.  The woodchucks are not liking seeing all the flatlanders coming up from infected areas.

Here is a relatively tame quote just yesterday:.  The existing locals vs out of stater bad vibes are there whether you want to admit it or not.  There is a ton of “territorial” “I have a right to be here and you do not”.  I only bring it up because there are folks who think it will be all fine to ignore Vermont quarantine rules because it’s not enforced by authorities.  Like PF is saying....people need to understand the situation and not have expectations that everything will be normal.  I keep bringing this up to help    people who may be reading this thread. I’m just stating a fact that people should be aware of before they visit Vermont. You guys keep negating my experience which is not helpful.  I’m not looking to argue with anyone about this. If you want to joke around and act like I’m making it up fine.  But I think folks who read this thread, who don’t spend much time in Vermont and may be planning on Vermont being a super place to visit this winter, should know the undercurrent of hostility to out of staters has gotten worse in Vermont since Covid hit.

Why do you think I’m joking or are claiming you’re making thinks up?   Read my post. All I said is that I haven’t heard any of that happening. Nothing less, nothing more. Sorry you feel this type of tension. I can only speak for myself and my experience.  
 

 

[Skivt2]

Here is a full on example of this BS.  On this thread the general opinion repeated over and over is that people with out of state plates and out of state drivers license should not be allowed to ski in Vermont this year.  There are already 85 comments.  I see the thread is being followed by representatives from Stowe and Jay.  NOT ONE person is defending the idea that people with out of state plates or Drivers licenses who work from home may be living in VT this winter for significant periods of time.  So what, I can quarantine at home no problem for 14 days then move to VT for 8 weeks but my pass will be turned off because I had it mailed to my CT address in October.  Do these people have any idea how hard it is to change your state of domicile from CT even if you are there less than 183 days a year???

I certainly think anyone with the idea they can ski in VT a few weekends here and there with an ICON pass needs to change their expectations about how well they will be received in VT this winter.  
 

I don’t understand how several of you in VT posting here have claimed not to know this is going on.

[powderfreak]

Ok, I guess the difference is that I have not based anything about how I feel about a given situation from postings on FB.  I know that thread, commented that any civil discourse on a controversial topic is not possible on FB.

I have yet to see or hear anything in public and real life, which is where I form my opinions.  There’s no vandalism, confrontations or window smashing that I’m aware of around here.  If you go read the comments on the latest WCAX or WMUR news story and applied those comments to every day life you start thinking very differently of people.  Is it fair to approach every day life with opinions only generated by FB?

People are still sensitive to COVID and there’s no doubt chatter online in places, but again jumping from internet talk to real life is I think the disconnect.

That's why telling people “how they will be received” also has a disconnect because it’s not there in personal interactions.  If one didn’t read that and just went about their business visiting, they would not be received that way.

[bwt3650]

1 hour ago, Skivt2 said:

Here is a full on example of this BS.  On this thread the general opinion repeated over and over is that people with out of state plates and out of state drivers license should not be allowed to ski in Vermont this year.  There are already 85 comments.  I see the thread is being followed by representatives from Stowe and Jay.  NOT ONE person is defending the idea that people with out of state plates or Drivers licenses who work from home may be living in VT this winter for significant periods of time.  So what, I can quarantine at home no problem for 14 days then move to VT for 8 weeks but my pass will be turned off because I had it mailed to my CT address in October.  Do these people have any idea how hard it is to change your state of domicile from CT even if you are there less than 183 days a year???

I certainly think anyone with the idea they can ski in VT a few weekends here and there with an ICON pass needs to change their expectations about how well they will be received in VT this winter.  
 

I don’t understand how several of you in VT posting here have claimed not to know this is going on.

I understand how these fb posts would you make you feel.  These people look like entitled tools, who think its “their state” or “their mountain”, and we all know none of them would survive without out of state “tourists”.  I don’t necessarily agree with the vt guidelines (county of domicile is not an appropriate judgement of risk), not to mention the weekly changes and accuracy of data is questionable.  That said, vt has done a great job with covid and I think there is some unjustified fear.  I’m from out of state and I plan on following the guidelines, getting the test after 7 days and then spending several weeks at a time there.  And I couldn’t care less if some “local” on fb questions my out of state plates.  It sounds like you have a home there, (what mountain?) will follow the guidelines and will spend plenty of time in vt.  And there’s nothing anyone can do about it.  People need to worry about themselves.  Go enjoy your home and the season and screw anyone who doesn’t like it.  I think there will be a lot less of these confrontations than what appears online.  We are all sick of what covid has done to the country both in sickness and emotionally.  But I’m not going to let these frustration ruin what I love.  It’s going to be a different season, but I’m still going to soak up every second of being back out there...let’s all hope we get buried this year!

[TauntonBlizzard2013]

I personally could give a rats azz what people think of me. If I’m allowed to go skiing in NH you can give me all the dirty looks you want, I’m still going skiing.

my personal opinion is the ski resorts are in a lot of trouble if state to state travel is restricted again come this winter.

And if the states are serious, it’s pretty easy to make sure nobody from out of state gets on the mountain... as far as ticket purchases and stuff like that 

[bwt3650]

2 hours ago, powderfreak said:

I'm jealous and might be up there for some day tickets, ha.  I think you are right about a once in a lifetime season there.  The border closed is going to make it feel like a private ski area most days, IMO.  That's taking 50% of their normal visitors and literally stopping them.  That's no state quarantine rule or anything, that's an international border, you aren't getting through LOL.

The most snow in the East coupled with 50% less customers.  That opportunity won't come around very often.

Yeah, I think you will be able to find powder any day of the week in the glades off the freezer this year with that border closed.  Smuggs is on my list too this year due to the reduced traffic.  I was told that I can get to smuggs in about 25 mins from jay as opposed to over an hour to Stowe with the notch closed.  

Let me know if you come up.

[PhineasC]

Just now, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

I personally could give a rats azz what people think of me. If I’m allowed to go skiing in NH you can give me all the dirty looks you want, I’m still going skiing.

my personal opinion is the ski resorts are in a lot of trouble if state to state travel is restricted again come this winter.

And if the states are serious, it’s pretty easy to make sure nobody from out of state gets on the mountain... as far as ticket purchases and stuff like that 

I plan to give you tons of dirty looks in NH this winter. Brace yourself. My disapproving gaze will shame you at every turn. I may even go on the closed Randolph Facebook chat group and say mean things about you.

[bwt3650]

Just now, PhineasC said:

I plan to give you tons of dirty looks in NH this winter. Brace yourself. My disapproving gaze will shame you at every turn. I may even go on the closed Randolph Facebook chat group and say mean things about you.

Sounds like jersey even pre-covid.  

[Baroclinic Zone]

If anyone has some money to toss down, this would be a pretty damn good spot for you snow weenies.  Looks like the top of the hill is around 1,900'.

https://sundayriverliving.com/merrill-hill/

[tamarack]

12 hours ago, bwt3650 said:

Sounds like jersey even pre-covid.  

As a NJ expat I can understand that comment, but it depends on where in the state.   We have family in SNJ farm country, well back from the shore, and there's little if any "Jersey attitude" there.  Also as a NJ expat I realize I'll always be a "flatlander" despite having moved to Maine in January 1973 and worked in the Maine woods for 44 years.  I've had almost no pushback, but I've also never carried on like I was a native. 

[bwt3650]

Rumors true..jay on the Indy pass.  Great move by them!!

[bwt3650]

8 hours ago, tamarack said:

As a NJ expat I can understand that comment, but it depends on where in the state.   We have family in SNJ farm country, well back from the shore, and there's little if any "Jersey attitude" there.  Also as a NJ expat I realize I'll always be a "flatlander" despite having moved to Maine in January 1973 and worked in the Maine woods for 44 years.  I've had almost no pushback, but I've also never carried on like I was a native. 

I joke about it but such a true statement.  NJ really does have some parts that completely defy the stereotype once you are away from the parkway/turnpike corridor.  Still, retirement will land us north full time for a variety of reasons.  For now, I’m just happy to be an outsider welcomed part time during the year.  I’ll keep my sports affiliations to myself, though.

[Skivt2]

I do see it on FB pages beyond Killington based ones as well.  And folks I know have been screamed at in general store parking lots and told to “Go home”.  One friend just got married and moved in with her VT husband but still has a MA plate.  She got screamed at 3 miles from her house.  Another friend was living in Vermont all last year with her VT resident boyfriend with a North Carolina plate and also had a person walk right up to her and scream at her to go home.  She was within 5 miles of their home.  it’s really a shame this is happening.  Hopefully confrontations like this do not become physical.

Honestly, for what it is worth, you guys are different than the average internet group.  For all the teasing that goes on here it’s a pretty good natured empathetic group with a lot of constructive discussion and information. I do appreciate that.  

I guess I do fall in the category that sees what is on FB and thinks the country is a shit show.  I’ve always sort of felt people smile in your face but say what they really think when they are online. I hope I’m wrong and you guys are right that the incidents I am aware of and the posts are just a small group of jerks and are not a representative sample.

Hopefully there will actually be a ski season.  All these tools complaining loudly on FB about out of staters coming this winter without quarantining are going to get the ski areas shut down.  They are making a lot of noise and making it seem like a terrible problem even if it is not.  Politicians respond to that sort of pressure because they worry about perception.  

[HoarfrostHubb]

My feeling is that 95% of all people are decent, hard working folks that like to have some fun.  There are loud mouths on either end of all spectrums, political, sports, etc who make a ton of noise and are attention seekers. I don't really see how VT areas especially will be able to have a "good" season with the travel restrictions, but they might be needed.  I did join that group just to read. I won't post or respond in there.  It mostly seems fine, but I can see why you would feel the way you do. 

[powderfreak]

I just like stoke, weather and ski/mtn photos.

Its such a shame the way the travel quarantine has evolved.  I haven’t seen my family in a while and we can’t travel to any red counties without taking two weeks off from work.  That definitely plays into it, it goes both ways for visitors and Vermonters.  We likewise can’t travel out, as part of the COVID regs is employers need to screen their employees...so my wife and I need to answer questions every day before work about if we’ve traveled to a spot necessitating quarantine.  If you lie, it could cost you your job.

Friends who work at UVM or professors at Johnson and Lyndon State colleges also report the same thing.  They will face serious disciplinary action if found to travel to red counties and not follow the guidelines.  Employers are following the VOSHA and state COVID guidelines by asking daily questions prior to work.

But it’s certainly both ways (inbound and outbound), and honestly when you are reminded about the quarantines every SINGLE day before work, it’s always top of mind.  Before going to work I stop at a health screening checkpoint mandated by the state and someone literally asks me out loud every day if I’ve traveled to a location requiring quarantine.  My wife gets the same thing at her hotel/spa too.

Its almost like a brainwash for people in the state to hear that question every single day. 

[TauntonBlizzard2013]

27 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

I just like stoke, weather and ski/mtn photos.

Its such a shame the way the travel quarantine has evolved.  I haven’t seen my family in a while and we can’t travel to any red counties without taking two weeks off from work.  That definitely plays into it, it goes both ways for visitors and Vermonters.  We likewise can’t travel out, as part of the COVID regs is employers need to screen their employees...so my wife and I need to answer questions every day before work about if we’ve traveled to a spot necessitating quarantine.  If you lie, it could cost you your job.

Friends who work at UVM or professors at Johnson and Lyndon State colleges also report the same thing.  They will face serious disciplinary action if found to travel to red counties and not follow the guidelines.  Employers are following the VOSHA and state COVID guidelines by asking daily questions prior to work.

But it’s certainly both ways (inbound and outbound), and honestly when you are reminded about the quarantines every SINGLE day before work, it’s always top of mind.  Before going to work I stop at a health screening checkpoint mandated by the state and someone literally asks me out loud every day if I’ve traveled to a location requiring quarantine.  My wife gets the same thing at her hotel/spa too.

Its almost like a brainwash for people in the state to hear that question every single day. 

I have to answer a questionnaire everyday before going to work. In addition to being tested once per week.

Im in the same boat... if we travel to any place deemed a “high risk” area... we are to quarantine  or isolate for 2 weeks. And this is using your own sick/vacation/personal time or whatever. We could lose our jobs if we violate.

Essentially, they are basically telling you not to travel, without actually coming out and saying it.

[powderfreak]

3 minutes ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

I have to answer a questionnaire everyday before going to work. In addition to being tested once per week.

Im in the same boat... if we travel to any place deemed a “high risk” area... we are to quarantine  or isolate for 2 weeks. And this is using your own sick/vacation/personal time or whatever. We could lose our jobs if we violate.

Essentially, they are basically telling you not to travel, without actually coming out and saying it.

Yeah it’s a tough spot to be in.  A friend (not a ski area employee) had to go to a funeral in a hot spot... he had to take two weeks off before he was allowed back to work!  Luckily he was salary and could do some work from home.  Hourly employees would be screwed in that case.

But yeah, the losing your job if you violate is a pretty terrifying position to be in, so no travel for now.

 

[Skivt2]

A well known musician in the Ludlow area just went on some kid of cross country vacation driving and is now back in Ludlow complaining loudly on his private FB page about all the out of staters Disregarding quarantine.

The thing is, if you work from home like millions do right now it’s fairly easy.  We headed up to VT a few weeks ago to check in our place and get some warm clothes since all our warm clothes were there.  I had not left our property in two weeks so had quarantined.  Sadly I did nothing special.  I just don’t have much reason to leave the house these days.  My husband went with me and just stayed in the condo and studied so he quarantined in VT.  We were there three days. I went to the post office and up to the mountain to get my 100 day hat for skiing over 70 days last year. We did not go to a gas station or buy food etc.  We completely were in compliance.  If my husband broke quarantine he would get kicked out of his program which took 3 yeas to get into.  But we are allowed to go to VT and when we get back to CT he can go his stuff no problem because you don’t have to quarantine in CT after visiting VT.  We did not break any rules.  

 

[PhineasC]

It’s kinda crazy, my experience so far in NH has been completely different from you guys in VT. It’s like COVID doesn’t even exist here. Just need to wear a mask occasionally and briefly in certain spots. 

[powderfreak]

3 hours ago, Skivt2 said:

A well known musician in the Ludlow area just went on some kid of cross country vacation driving and is now back in Ludlow complaining loudly on his private FB page about all the out of staters Disregarding quarantine.

The thing is, if you work from home like millions do right now it’s fairly easy.  We headed up to VT a few weeks ago to check in our place and get some warm clothes since all our warm clothes were there.  I had not left our property in two weeks so had quarantined.  Sadly I did nothing special.  I just don’t have much reason to leave the house these days.  My husband went with me and just stayed in the condo and studied so he quarantined in VT.  We were there three days. I went to the post office and up to the mountain to get my 100 day hat for skiing over 70 days last year. We did not go to a gas station or buy food etc.  We completely were in compliance.  If my husband broke quarantine he would get kicked out of his program which took 3 yeas to get into.  But we are allowed to go to VT and when we get back to CT he can go his stuff no problem because you don’t have to quarantine in CT after visiting VT.  We did not break any rules.  

 

Was something wrong?  I know this is extremely stressful for you, but if you are doing you then just live your life.  I get what you see online, but don’t let it ruin your day... just like taking comments personally regarding politics online.   I still haven’t seen anything in real life or heard from any tourists and I come in contact with A LOT of them.  Thousands and thousands the last few weekends.  They seemed to be smiling and laughing and having fun.

Don’t let the internet ruin it for you, people are having fun it seems.

[powderfreak]

10 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

It’s kinda crazy, my experience so far in NH has been completely different from you guys in VT. It’s like COVID doesn’t even exist here. Just need to wear a mask occasionally and briefly in certain spots. 

No vaccine and the state guidance.  Do you know if NH workers do the same checkpoint and screening like here and Mass (like TauntonBlizz said)?  I think working at a physical location and not working from home you get exposed to it a lot more.  If Mass does this too with workers, then it’s not as weird as I thought lol.

I truly think if you were up here at a second home like you are in a rural area you wouldn’t know it either.  Go into the NEK, COVID gone, lol.

[PhineasC]

3 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

No vaccine and the state guidance.  Do you know if NH workers do the same checkpoint and screening like here and Mass (like TauntonBlizz said)?  I think working at a physical location and not working from home you get exposed to it a lot more.  If Mass does this too with workers, then it’s not as weird as I thought lol.

I truly think if you were up here at a second home like you are in a rural area you wouldn’t know it either.  Go into the NEK, COVID gone, lol.

That's very true. I am not trying to work at a physical office or retail location in NH, it's probably a different story for those folks. I also know I'm in a fairly off the beaten path area. We do notice a little bit more of a "heightened awareness" of COVID when we are in North Conway, for example. We have been chalking that up to the large numbers of tourists from Mass kinda bringing that vibe with them however. 

It does seem like VT has chosen to go on one end of the COVID safety spectrum, whereas some states like FL have been far at the other end. I've been into VT a few times for various things and it does seem like just anecdotally more things are shut down and restricted there than in NH. That said, I haven't seen any hostility from anyone, but as noted before I am pretty oblivious to all that and couldn't care less anyway, as long as I am following the rules.

[bwt3650]

7 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

No vaccine and the state guidance.  Do you know if NH workers do the same checkpoint and screening like here and Mass (like TauntonBlizz said)?  I think working at a physical location and not working from home you get exposed to it a lot more.  If Mass does this too with workers, then it’s not as weird as I thought lol.

I truly think if you were up here at a second home like you are in a rural area you wouldn’t know it either.  Go into the NEK, COVID gone, lol.

When you look at the numbers, it almost doesn’t exist up there.  Most states see daily cases in the hundreds and when I listen to some of the vt. Governors press briefings, the press will be interrogating him on one or two cases (which might not even be symptomatic).  I’m really torn on this stuff.  When your numbers are that good, it’s hard to argue about the guidelines (though population and density are the main driver) but did anyone ever think there would be a time when one American was told they can’t step foot inside another American state for months at a time, for no reason other than simply where they live?  That’s a tough one.

Here, there are constant reminders of covid.  Temp checks for lots of businesses...I even have to fill out a form every morning between 730 and 8 before I put my kids on the bus.  

[PhineasC]

1 minute ago, bwt3650 said:

When you look at the numbers, it almost doesn’t exist up there.  Most states see daily cases in the hundreds and when I listen to some of the vt. Governors press briefings, the press will be interrogating him on one or two cases (which might not even be symptomatic).  I’m really torn on this stuff.  When your numbers are that good, it’s hard to argue about the guidelines (though population and density are the main driver) but did anyone ever think there would be a time when one American was told they can’t step foot inside another American state for months at a time, for no reason other than simply where they live?  That’s a tough one.

Here, there are constant reminders of covid.  Temp checks for lots of businesses...I even have to fill out a form every morning between 730 and 8 before I put my kids on the bus.  

I am pretty certain we will look back in a few years once the political aspects of this have cooled off and the general consensus will be COVID wasn't worth destroying our economy and financial health over. Just my two cents.

[bwt3650]

9 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

That's very true. I am not trying to work at a physical office or retail location in NH, it's probably a different story for those folks. I also know I'm in a fairly off the beaten path area. We do notice a little bit more of a "heightened awareness" of COVID when we are in North Conway, for example. We have been chalking that up to the large numbers of tourists from Mass kinda bringing that vibe with them however. 

It does seem like VT has chosen to go on one end of the COVID safety spectrum, whereas some states like FL have been far at the other end. I've been into VT a few times for various things and it does seem like just anecdotally more things are shut down and restricted there than in NH. That said, I haven't seen any hostility from anyone, but as noted before I am pretty oblivious to all that and couldn't care less anyway, as long as I am following the rules.

That’s the way to be...oblivious and don’t care as long as you are following the rules.  Like I said, my area goes from red to green and back; I’ll follow the rules and enjoy the f out if this winter, rather than stressing over what other people think.  

[powderfreak]

15 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

That's very true. I am not trying to work at a physical office or retail location in NH, it's probably a different story for those folks. I also know I'm in a fairly off the beaten path area. We do notice a little bit more of a "heightened awareness" of COVID when we are in North Conway, for example. We have been chalking that up to the large numbers of tourists from Mass kinda bringing that vibe with them however. 

It does seem like VT has chosen to go on one end of the COVID safety spectrum, whereas some states like FL have been far at the other end. I've been into VT a few times for various things and it does seem like just anecdotally more things are shut down and restricted there than in NH. That said, I haven't seen any hostility from anyone, but as noted before I am pretty oblivious to all that and couldn't care less anyway, as long as I am following the rules.

Yup, definitely more liberal state plays into it here despite the Republican gov.  He’d be a socialist in Florida, ha.

But I am sure if I didn’t go to work I wouldn’t hear about COVID except online.  You just wear a mask indoors and do your business.  

[powderfreak]

8 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

I am pretty certain we will look back in a few years once the political aspects of this have cooled off and the general consensus will be COVID wasn't worth destroying our economy and financial health over. Just my two cents.

Hard to say IMO.  I go more with people over profits type mentality but that’s Vermont bleeding into me lol.  Then again if you tell people we might get another $1200 stimulus, the answer is usually “Why?”  Plenty of jobs available, can’t fill them.  I think the small businesses need help but I don’t see or know of anyone out of work due to COVID anymore.

I think we might have struck the right balance inadvertently.

[tamarack]

10 hours ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

I have to answer a questionnaire everyday before going to work. In addition to being tested once per week.

Im in the same boat... if we travel to any place deemed a “high risk” area... we are to quarantine  or isolate for 2 weeks. And this is using your own sick/vacation/personal time or whatever. We could lose our jobs if we violate.

Essentially, they are basically telling you not to travel, without actually coming out and saying it.

Maybe it's because of my job site (when not working at home) or something, but Maine - for all its protest-generating restrictions - seems very low key compared to what I'm reading about here.  We have a sign-in site on the state website for when we plan to be in our office building and must wear masks there unless we're in a socially distant cubicle (like mine) but there was no other restrictions and I traveled all over northern Maine last week with no problems.  (Our auditor from Vermont came and went freely; the other auditor is from Sault Ste. Marie, ON and "attended" the opening and closing meetings on Teams.)  Maine has had some recent outbreaks but the overall case numbers are second lowest of any state.  Vermont is lowest, and maybe they're going overboard to remain #1?