The 2020-2021 Ski season thread

[radarman]

11 minutes ago, snowgeek said:

My big question is what do they do about the county by county travel restrictions. If they were open today, there are so few counties outside of VT where you could “legally” travel from and ski without quarantino. How strict will they be? How about for season pass holders. I haven’t been able find this mentioned in any of the VT ski areas websites? Anyone hear anything?

I heard they'll let you in but then key your car

[powderfreak]

1 hour ago, snowgeek said:

My big question is what do they do about the county by county travel restrictions. If they were open today, there are so few counties outside of VT where you could “legally” travel from and ski without quarantino. How strict will they be? How about for season pass holders. I haven’t been able find this mentioned in any of the VT ski areas websites? Anyone hear anything?


.

There’s no way to know if someone quarantined or not.  How could anyone prove you didn’t sit locked in your house for two weeks before your weekend in VT?  Because you can do the quarantine before you visit, so there’s literally zero way to prove anything.  Obviously it’s unlikely but unprovable.  Given the massive volume of fall foliage tourists from all over the United States this past weekend, it’s a moot point.

The Vermont Ski Area Association is basically going with the assumption that people are responsible and follow the state guidance but beyond that it here’s nothing anyone will do.  A recent article in the local Stowe paper here quoted the General Manager of Smugglers Notch as saying that the only few people this summer that were asked to leave that resort, were people who openly admitted to not following the quarantine, mocked it, and signed the state’s form anyway.

The gist was basically don’t be stupid and advertise that you didn’t follow the guidance as then you sort of force the hand.

 

[snowgeek]

Makes sense. Hopefully the skiers don’t show up in hoards and ignore the rules. The old “don’t be the reason we lose our season” slogan. I’m a rule follower lol with a good dose of guilt, so I’m sticking to NY this winter. Gonna shred those slides at Whiteface!!


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[amarshall]

I'm curious how far the down sales are on IKON or Epic.   I normally get one and am not getting one.  Too many variables for closures. 

[powderfreak]

6 minutes ago, amarshall said:

I'm curious how far the down sales are on IKON or Epic.   I normally get one and am not getting one.  Too many variables for closures. 

Way up.  Epic is substantially up but they added the Peak resorts this year so hard to compare year over year.

Most ski areas are way up on passes, people are afraid that’s the only way they can ski as many of the larger operations have said they won’t do day tickets or it’ll be severely restricted day tickets.

Many people got discounts/credits on passes from last year’s early closing too, along with assurances/pass insurance this season... there was a ton of incentive to buy a pass this year for consumers and they took it.

[amarshall]

8 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Way up.  Epic is substantially up but they added the Peak resorts this year so hard to compare year over year.

Most ski areas are way up on passes, people are afraid that’s the only way they can ski as many of the larger operations have said they won’t do day tickets or it’ll be severely restricted day tickets.

Many people got discounts/credits on passes from last year’s early closing too, along with assurances/pass insurance this season... there was a ton of incentive to buy a pass this year for consumers and they took it.

huh, so the world doesn't revolve around me. 

[CoastalWx]

My friend works at a higher end ski shop in downtown Boston. he said business is through the roof. Nice to see.

[radarman]

3 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

My friend works at a higher end ski shop in downtown Boston. he said business is through the roof. Nice to see.

Ski monster?

[ORH_wxman]

17 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

My friend works at a higher end ski shop in downtown Boston. he said business is through the roof. Nice to see.

I'm pretty worried about the day skier volume for the mid-sized and smaller resorts. The big dogs owned by conglomerates will probably be fine, but if day pass sales are wayyyy down this winter, that could finish off some smaller places. I'm going to purposefully try and get to a few this winter for that reason.

[powderfreak]

10 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

I'm pretty worried about the day skier volume for the mid-sized and smaller resorts. The big dogs owned by conglomerates will probably be fine, but if day pass sales are wayyyy down this winter, that could finish off some smaller places. I'm going to purposefully try and get to a few this winter for that reason.

Honestly most of the smaller tier places are likewise worried that they won’t be able to meet the demand.  There will be a lot of overflow from the big resorts where people can’t get tickets for or are at capacity.  The industry is concerned it’s going to do flat numbers at a very reduced capacity, thus leading to total chaos as demand far out-paces COVID supply.

And even smaller mountains are going to drastically cut back on day ticket sales.  Places have stopped selling seasons passes in some cases and stopped all sales all together.  Many smaller areas jacket up their rates too, to try and combat the demand.

If the last few weekends are any indication, people are so far over COVID it isn’t even funny.  These ski areas are going to get full visitation at 50% possible occupancy lol.  It’s going to be a sh*tshow.  A LOT of people are going skiing to very limited services and lift capacities.

I mean this past weekend was filled with “We are no longer allowing people in, we have reached a level of customers we are comfortable with for a global pandemic.”  Is met with “What pandemic?  That was April.  F*ck your comfort level my family wants to ride your gondola.”  Lol.

[amarshall]

My buddy who owns Sportsworks ski shop in my town said he's never sold a touring set up before this year.  He's cranking through them. The sidehill stuff will be interesting. 

[CoastalWx]

32 minutes ago, radarman said:

Ski monster?

I believe so. 

[CoastalWx]

19 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

I'm pretty worried about the day skier volume for the mid-sized and smaller resorts. The big dogs owned by conglomerates will probably be fine, but if day pass sales are wayyyy down this winter, that could finish off some smaller places. I'm going to purposefully try and get to a few this winter for that reason.

I was hoping to try and go ski this year for the first time in years..maybe even get my son to go. I definitely will not be able to go enough for the value of a pass, so day tickets it will be. 

[radarman]

4 minutes ago, amarshall said:

My buddy who owns Sportsworks ski shop in my town said he's never sold a touring set up before this year.  He's cranking through them. The sidehill stuff will be interesting. 

This would be a really great time for 2010/2011 to walk through that door.  O how we pray

[ORH_wxman]

17 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Honestly most of the smaller tier places are likewise worried that they won’t be able to meet the demand.  There will be a lot of overflow from the big resorts where people can’t get tickets for or are at capacity.  The industry is concerned it’s going to do flat numbers at a very reduced capacity, thus leading to total chaos as demand far out-paces COVID supply.

And even smaller mountains are going to drastically cut back on day ticket sales.  Places have stopped selling seasons passes in some cases and stopped all sales all together.  Many smaller areas jacket up their rates too, to try and combat the demand.

If the last few weekends are any indication, people are so far over COVID it isn’t even funny.  These ski areas are going to get full visitation at 50% possible occupancy lol.  It’s going to be a sh*tshow.  A LOT of people are going skiing to very limited services and lift capacities.

I mean this past weekend was filled with “We are no longer allowing people in, we have reached a level of customers we are comfortable with for a global pandemic.”  Is met with “What pandemic?  That was April.  F*ck your comfort level my family wants to ride your gondola.”  Lol.

 

Hopefully that's what happens in the winter. I'm a worrier....but it sounds good based on what you say.

 

My worry is that we see this surge early on, but it's a sh*t show with limits, prioitizing pass holders, etc..... and then you have some states still trying to tell people to quarantine....and then word spreads that it's not worth the trip and we see a big dropoff. Esp if the snow kind of sucks.

[powderfreak]

8 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

Hopefully that's what happens in the winter. I'm a worrier....but it sounds good based on what you say.

 

My worry is that we see this surge early on, but it's a sh*t show with limits, prioitizing pass holders, etc..... and then you have some states still trying to tell people to quarantine....and then word spreads that it's not worth the trip and we see a big dropoff. Esp if the snow kind of sucks.

Yeah for sure, I could see it changing through the season.  It was just shocking how many people seemed oblivious to COVID this weekend... wondering why only prepackaged food was available, why they can’t go inside lodges, why the lift line is so long because its live together ride together.

To your point I think people might come and realize IT IS a different experience.  They weren’t lying when they said you boot up at your car in the cold.  You aren’t taking the family and bags into the lodge, that entire base lodge now has a max occupancy of 75 people including staff with counters at the door.  You go in to piss and then go back outside.

I think you are on the right train of thought with huge initial demand, until people realize it’s truly about skiing and skiing only.  You aren’t getting a beer with your buddies in the lodge.  Your not sitting for 4 hours with your kids in a day lodge... if they aren’t into skiing that day you go home.

[PhineasC]

We were always the types who put on our boots at the car and went straight to the lifts anyway, so we aren't expecting a big change on that front. With kids, once you enter the lodge money starts getting spent. LOL

[radarman]

On really cold days when they normally tell you to go inside every few runs to avoid frostbite... will the mountain just close? 

I mean some hardcore types will gut it out, but I don't envy the customer service folks telling parents no refunds and the kids can freeze or go home.

[powderfreak]

28 minutes ago, radarman said:

On really cold days when they normally tell you to go inside every few runs to avoid frostbite... will the mountain just close? 

I mean some hardcore types will gut it out, but I don't envy the customer service folks telling parents no refunds and the kids can freeze or go home.

That’s why you want to sell season passes, lol.  Day tickets people expect something that day... season pass holders just go home without complaining.

[powderfreak]

35 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

We were always the types who put on our boots at the car and went straight to the lifts anyway, so we aren't expecting a big change on that front. With kids, once you enter the lodge money starts getting spent. LOL

In Maryland climate?  LOL. J/k, sort of.  Just wait till you are booting your family up in a parking lot at Wildcat/Bretton Woods on a winter morning next to Alex’s thermometer that just hit -25F, ha.  Or while the wind threatens to rip your car door off and your kid just went rolling through the base like a tumbleweed.  It’s going to be a big deal in the cold, windy northern mountains.  It can be really, really unpleasant to try and get ready in the lot.

[MarkO]

With my new AT boots, I've found I can drive up the mountain pretty well, so I'll be booting up in the living room   . I don't think crowds will be an issue mid-week. There are some weekdays I have the entire mountain to myself and about a couple dozen others.

That being said, you guys have got me nervous about buying my season pass. There's no incentive to buy it early (the White Mountain Super Pass), so maybe I shoudl do that now.

[PhineasC]

35 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

In Maryland climate?  LOL. J/k, sort of.  Just wait till you are booting your family up in a parking lot at Wildcat/Bretton Woods on a winter morning next to Alex’s thermometer that just hit -25F, ha.  Or while the wind threatens to rip your car door off and your kid just went rolling through the base like a tumbleweed.  It’s going to be a big deal in the cold, windy northern mountains.  It can be really, really unpleasant to try and get ready in the lot.

This was our policy even when we skied up north. At least on normal days. Yeah, the -25 days will likely be different. May just boot the kids at home and toss them in the car and drive with the windows cracked.

[powderfreak]

8 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

This was our policy even when we skied up north. At least on normal days. Yeah, the -25 days will likely be different. May just boot the kids at home and toss them in the car and drive with the windows cracked.

Yeah just dress the kids at home if it’s under 20 minutes or so.  It is another world of cold/wind in the northern mountains at least to me.  

[bwt3650]

The vt quarantine is the real wildcard for the season.  The question is do people follow it?  I think a lot of people are going with the idea that it will change by ski season and buying passes and booking stuff.  If it doesn’t, you are eliminating a giant pool of skiers, many who might be looking to take advantage of the refunds once they realize it might not be changing.  Like pf said, I think many will just day trip it anyway since there really isn’t an enforcement mechanism; and maybe Vermont knows that.  As it stands now though, I think the resorts, and all the small restaurants and businesses will be crushed if they don’t change it.  They can’t survive without those major market skiers.

[backedgeapproaching]

2 hours ago, PhineasC said:

This was our policy even when we skied up north. At least on normal days. Yeah, the -25 days will likely be different. May just boot the kids at home and toss them in the car and drive with the windows cracked.

If you are going to be up in Randolph all winter, its easy to deal with the -30F days....stay away from the mountain. Its much easier to pick and choose which days to head out when you live so close and have season passes. 

[Hitman]

24 minutes ago, bwt3650 said:

The vt quarantine is the real wildcard for the season.  The question is do people follow it?  I think a lot of people are going with the idea that it will change by ski season and buying passes and booking stuff.  If it doesn’t, you are eliminating a giant pool of skiers, many who might be looking to take advantage of the refunds once they realize it might not be changing.  Like pf said, I think many will just day trip it anyway since there really isn’t an enforcement mechanism; and maybe Vermont knows that.  As it stands now though, I think the resorts, and all the small restaurants and businesses will be crushed if they don’t change it.  They can’t survive without those major market skiers.

I don't think there are going to be a lot of day trippers regardless of the quarantine situation.  First of all, day passes will be limited and require advance purchase.  That eliminates a big segment of the day tripper population.  I doubt there will be any bus trips at all.  Can't imagine any school or organization dealing with a ski trip when they have their hands full otherwise.  and groups looking to party more than ski won't be booking trips if the lodges/bars are closed. Maybe i'm wrong (caveat-I thought this thing would be under control by now), but I think its going to be passholders skiing for the most part.

[PhineasC]

7 minutes ago, backedgeapproaching said:

If you are going to be up in Randolph all winter, its easy to deal with the -30F days....stay away from the mountain. Its much easier to pick and choose which days to head out when you live so close and have season passes. 

Very true. Our season passes only allow us to ski on weekdays, and we are fine with that. 

I don't mind skiing on very cold days. I have skied in -teens a few times. I am always hot when skiing. But the kids will likely complain.

[ORH_wxman]

43 minutes ago, bwt3650 said:

The vt quarantine is the real wildcard for the season.  The question is do people follow it?  I think a lot of people are going with the idea that it will change by ski season and buying passes and booking stuff.  If it doesn’t, you are eliminating a giant pool of skiers, many who might be looking to take advantage of the refunds once they realize it might not be changing.  Like pf said, I think many will just day trip it anyway since there really isn’t an enforcement mechanism; and maybe Vermont knows that.  As it stands now though, I think the resorts, and all the small restaurants and businesses will be crushed if they don’t change it.  They can’t survive without those major market skiers.

There will be a bunch of local businesses crippled because of this. It's very sad. That's just going to be an economic reality of the covid protocols....a bit OT for this thread though.

I do not think there needs to be a major limit on skiing though....this just doesn't spread well outside based on a huge sample size now, so I do not see the point. Nevermind when most people are actually wearing masks anyway in cold weather. I can understand limiting lodge capacity. Maybe they are scared of too many people trying to use bathrooms or something in the lodge, but I think if you communicate clearly in advance that lodge spacing will be limited, you don't need to start withholding day passes.

[J.Spin]

11 hours ago, powderfreak said:

In Maryland climate?  LOL. J/k, sort of.  Just wait till you are booting your family up in a parking lot at Wildcat/Bretton Woods on a winter morning next to Alex’s thermometer that just hit -25F, ha.  Or while the wind threatens to rip your car door off and your kid just went rolling through the base like a tumbleweed.  It’s going to be a big deal in the cold, windy northern mountains.  It can be really, really unpleasant to try and get ready in the lot.

 

10 hours ago, PhineasC said:

This was our policy even when we skied up north. At least on normal days. Yeah, the -25 days will likely be different. May just boot the kids at home and toss them in the car and drive with the windows cracked.

 

7 hours ago, backedgeapproaching said:

If you are going to be up in Randolph all winter, its easy to deal with the -30F days....stay away from the mountain. Its much easier to pick and choose which days to head out when you live so close and have season passes. 

I’m glad backedge chimed in with that advice, because I was going to say the same thing.  I feel for folks who have to pick some specific date at this point of the season, make their reservations, lock it in, and then ski that day no matter what.  You shouldn’t have to do that if you’re literally living in ski country with a semi-flexible schedule.  Some people treat it like a badge of honor to be out there when the surfaces are ice, the wind chills are many tens of degrees F below zero, it’s pouring rain, whatever.  Let’s face it, those conditions suck (actually, days with rain can yield nice soft snow and be a lot of fun, but if it’s constantly pouring you’re still going to be getting soaked).

In any event, just avoid those days with crappy conditions and ski on the good days.  Up here in the northern mountains there are typically so many good to great days (thanks to upslope, etc.) that there’s going to be another good one around the corner.

When it comes to ice, rain, or cold being the detrimental factor to the ski experience, cold is kind of the toughest one to factor in, because you can potentially have fantastic fresh snow conditions coupled with very cold, dangerous, uncomfortable temperatures, and the two factors are at odds.  You just have to make a judgement call at that point, but err on the side of caution with the kids, especially if there’s not going to be a warm lodge to jump into at any time.  Maybe you just take a run or two to get the best of the snow, then you pack it in due to the potential for frostbite, etc.

My personal temperature break point for riding the lifts is around 10 F (that’s not including wind chill, which can make a big difference).  Below that point I will typically just switch to skinning up because you can stay warm during the ascent while you’re exercising, and you’re never sitting up there on a lift, exposed and swinging in the wind in those temperatures.  That’s really the worst part of the lift-served experience on those very cold days, having to sit still on a lift where you’re not really generating heat and at the mercy of the wind.  Gondolas really remove most of that issue, but they’re not nearly as common as regular chairlifts.

[Angus]

I'm of the opinion that Covid is going to make those small-medium size areas much busier as people seek some physical distance thinking they can escape lift lines, et cetera. As I said,= in this thread earlier when I bought my epic pass a month ago, I will ski the Okemo, Mt. Snow, Stowe areas mid-week when things in theory are less busy, Crotched at nite and Wildcat on weekends to avoid crowds. I guess one of my hopes is we have a good spring and I get lots of days in that way...do a lot of nordic at the height of winter.