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Spring/Summer 2020 Medium & Long Range Discussion


Geoboy645
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RC with a mention

Next Tuesday and Wednesday, attention turns to the possibility of
the remnants of a western or central Gulf coast landfalling
tropical system affecting the area. It appears Tuesday could be
warm/very warm and humid until any impacts. Much too far out for
any specifics with the possible system itself, which could range
from: tropical moisture getting involved for a heavy
rain/flooding threat from showers and t-storms to extratropical
phasing with an incoming long-wave trough for an unseasonably deep
surface low that could add a strong wind component into the mix.
Earlier cold front passage on Wednesday would bring an end to
precip. threat quicker than depicted in official NDFD grids.

Castro
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1 hour ago, Hoosier said:

Excellent point.  A few of the past big wind makers from remnant systems were in September or October.  Still have a lot of leaves on the trees then but being in June the leaves aren't even getting close to the point of dropping.  

Many model runs to go, but that Euro run would be a considerable impact event. 

And don't forget, cicadas will be caking the trees adding additional mass/surface area. :lmao:

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3 hours ago, Hoosier said:

We don't see it very often with remnant systems in this part of the country but depending on how it evolves/phases, there could be a legit damaging wind threat with this thing.

Ensembles certainly support the heavy rain threat. That Euro verbatim would also be a higher end tornado threat Tuesday evening ahead of the stronger SSW winds early Wed.

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To put in perspective how freaky the 12z Euro would be, just look at this map of low pressure records for the month of June.  Some of these records around the Lakes would be demolished.

 

JuneRecordLowSLPs.thumb.gif.3df0e5c9e1ac8bd4d131270ba4085a70.gif

 

The 3 Gulf coast systems that come to mind that had a big wind impact around the Lakes/OV are the 1900 Galveston hurricane, the 1941 hurricane and Ike from 2008.  A couple others that backed in from the east coast and hammered the eastern sub would be Hazel and Sandy.  All of these were September or October systems. 

Several years ago I did extensive research on tropical remnant systems around the region and I cannot recall anything like what the Euro is advertising during a summer month.  Maybe that would suggest leaning toward a tamer outcome at this distance.   

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59 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

To put in perspective how freaky the 12z Euro would be, just look at this map of low pressure records for the month of June.  Some of these records around the Lakes would be demolished.

 

JuneRecordLowSLPs.thumb.gif.3df0e5c9e1ac8bd4d131270ba4085a70.gif

 

The 3 Gulf coast systems that come to mind that had a big wind impact around the Lakes/OV are the 1900 Galveston hurricane, the 1941 hurricane and Ike from 2008.  A couple others that backed in from the east coast and hammered the eastern sub would be Hazel and Sandy.  All of these were September or October systems. 

Several years ago I did extensive research on tropical remnant systems around the region and I cannot recall anything like what the Euro is advertising during a summer month.  Maybe that would suggest leaning toward a tamer outcome at this distance.   

Hugo I believe also produced high winds in the region especially eastern lakes. None of the examples fit this time of year. Only thing that remotely comes to mind is Arlene in 2005. That did bring quite a bit of rain to the region but not winds.

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19 hours ago, frostfern said:

ECMWF has a good thunderstorm pattern for the western lakes next week now.  EML with big CAPE looks pretty likely.  It's just a matter of when/where favorable shear/forcing occurs.

The Euro is now showing a very boring pattern as an upper low cuts off and parks over the eastern lakes.  Today/tomorrow may be the only rain for the next ten days.

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4 hours ago, hawkeye_wx said:

The Euro is now showing a very boring pattern as an upper low cuts off and parks over the eastern lakes.  Today/tomorrow may be the only rain for the next ten days.

I spoke too soon.  One run looked more progressive, then it went back to the cutoff solution.  :axe:

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I was hoping I was wrong. But the story of many parts of Ontario and SW Quebec will be drought. 

Isolated spots got a T-storm last week that just ran off of most surfaces. It is dry here. I can’t imagine what the current realities are in Ottawa and Montreal. 

There seems to be a fair chance of precipitation tomorrow or Thursday. After that...nothing. 

Summer hasn’t officially started yet. 

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5 hours ago, hawkeye_wx said:

The Euro is now showing a very boring pattern as an upper low cuts off and parks over the eastern lakes.  Today/tomorrow may be the only rain for the next ten days.

As a plant pathologist who knows that there is an intimate relationship with fungal disease and weather - this summer is shaping to be a punt. 

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19 minutes ago, Kitchener poster said:

As a plant pathologist who knows that there is an intimate relationship with fungal disease and weather - this summer is shaping to be a punt. 

It seems like summers have been trending dryer in the Great Lakes which sucks if you like thunderstorms and don't like droughts.  

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19 minutes ago, frostfern said:

It seems like summers have been trending dryer in the Great Lakes which sucks if you like thunderstorms and don't like droughts.  

image.png.f3f6048cfcff02457db95ac248d2a051.png

 

That's definitely not the case in the western lakes.  Summers have been markedly wetter.  Even in the eastern lakes precip trends seems fairly flat.  

 

MSN summer rainfall trends above for reference

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57 minutes ago, Kitchener poster said:

I was hoping I was wrong. But the story of many parts of Ontario and SW Quebec will be drought. 

Isolated spots got a T-storm last week that just ran off of most surfaces. It is dry here. I can’t imagine what the current realities are in Ottawa and Montreal. 

There seems to be a fair chance of precipitation tomorrow or Thursday. After that...nothing. 

Summer hasn’t officially started yet. 

For Farmers, this current pattern isn't great. After a cold and dry spring, a dry summer would be terrible.

But for anyone who enjoys the great outdoors including camping and BBQing or likes to spend time at their cottage, then its amazing! But because of Covid-19, people can't really do much so in many ways, this summer sucks. 

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1 hour ago, madwx said:

image.png.f3f6048cfcff02457db95ac248d2a051.png

 

That's definitely not the case in the western lakes.  Summers have been markedly wetter.  Even in the eastern lakes precip trends seems fairly flat.  

 

MSN summer rainfall trends above for reference

Wisconsin has certainly been getting wetter.  Big change once you get east of Lake Michigan.  Maybe I should qualify and say the lake shadow effect has been getting worse.  I'd like to see a graph of Michigan for July and August.  MSN is already wetter by climatology.

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models keying in on the potential for a seasonably robust shortwave to rotate through the area saturday into sunday. As to be expected with a feature like this, models are highly variable from run to run but seems like an opportunity for some severe weather for someone. Biggest concern overall for me right now is the extent of destabilization that occurs given that cloud cover/junky convection look assured given lack of an EML. GFS overall has been the most "impressive" member of guidance which has had a stronger surface low and therefore a more organized low level response and backing of winds. Not a super impressive setup by any means even on the GFS, but when it's 2020, you grasp at straws.

500wh.conus.png

 

500wh.conus.png

sfctd_b.us_mw.png

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