PhineasC Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 12 minutes ago, supernovasky said: Stuff like this is what has me questioning Phineas' claims of "everything is fine the death rate is probably just like Swine flu" That doctor needs to take a stats class. He is comparing global IFR to a single city. There will be broad swaths of territory that have few cases that being down the death rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eskimo Joe Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 Just now, mappy said: Weren’t they for normal day to day hospital visits? Not for covid patients I thought Correct. There are some folks out there who think they can accept COVID patients and that's really not the point of them. To be clear, I wasn't insinuating anyone on this board thought they should be used for COVID patients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, Eskimo Joe said: The hospital ships are designed for trauma injuries in battle. They aren't designed intrinsically for clinical cases such a COVID et al. It's true they can be used for offloading some of the daily hospital burden on a city like LA or NYC, but utilizing these ships presents layers of logistical challenges such as ferrying patients, extra patient tracking between the civilian and military sector. Excuses. Red tape has been cut. They are not being used, just like nearly every hospital out there outside the hot zones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 1 minute ago, mappy said: Weren’t they for normal day to day hospital visits? Not for covid patients I thought OK, so everyone else in NYC is healthy all the time now? If the hospitals are supposedly stuffed to the gills with COVID patients where are all the people with heart attacks, aneurysms, and trauma? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthArlington101 Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 Excuses. Red tape has been cut. They are not being used, just like nearly every hospital out there outside the hot zones.source? I’ll keep asking you all night until you get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eskimo Joe Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 Just now, PhineasC said: Excuses. Red tape has been cut. They are not being used, just like nearly every hospital out there outside the hot zones. Okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowGolfBro Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 17 minutes ago, WxUSAF said: Florida and New Orleans?? Ecuador apparently. It has not been in the 80s in New Orleans the last few months. And Florida has 668 deaths at last count. There Are 20+ million people in Florida. And they got a ton of travelers from out of state during cold/flu/Covid season. If the heat wasn’t a factor I’d expect to see much higher numbers. It’s going to start to heat up in New Orleans and i bet that will slow the spread there too. Texas is another great example 30 million people and only 400 deaths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 12 minutes ago, Inverted_Trough said: Ayn Randers really struggle with pandemics. Overcoming a pandemic requires a communal way of thinking which is anathema to them. Plus you can only read The Fountainhead so many times while quarantined Socialized medicine paradises around the world have been hammered by this disease. This argument seems empty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mappy Posted April 17, 2020 Author Share Posted April 17, 2020 1 minute ago, PhineasC said: OK, so everyone else in NYC is healthy all the time now? If the hospitals are supposedly stuffed to the gills with COVID patients where are all the people with heart attacks, aneurysms, and trauma? Most are probably dying in their homes, at least in NYC. Metfan could come attest to that, he’s told us about it over in PR. it was my understanding that these hospital ships were intended for every day use, not surgeries or anything but general visits/injuries. How they are actually being utilized, I can’t say. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, Eskimo Joe said: Okay. And what about the temp hospital they set up? The temp hospital in Seattle closed before they saw a single patient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUmetstud Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 12 minutes ago, mappy said: Pretty sure you or I can’t make that call I mean we've had triple the deaths of swine flu... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 1 minute ago, mappy said: Most are probably dying in their homes, at least in NYC. Metfan could come attest to that, he’s told us about it over in PR. it was my understanding that these hospital ships were intended for every day use, not surgeries or anything but general visits/injuries. How they are actually being utilized, I can’t say. OK, but if they are dying in their homes they are very old, very ill, and infirm. Basically a nursing home patient. That is a totally different beast than a 30 year old dying at home. And yes, it sucks that grandma is dying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mappy Posted April 17, 2020 Author Share Posted April 17, 2020 Just now, PhineasC said: And what about the temp hospital they set up? The temp hospital in Seattle closed before they saw a single patient. Did they close because it wasn’t needed anymore since area hospitals were able to manage patients? I don’t know the story... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mappy Posted April 17, 2020 Author Share Posted April 17, 2020 Just now, PhineasC said: OK, but if they are dying in their homes they are very old, very ill, and infirm. Basically a nursing home patient. That is a totally different beast than a 30 year old dying at home. And yes, it sucks that grandma is dying... Agreed but what does that matter in your question? Many aren’t going to hospitals for normal ER visits due to fear of getting sick, and ERs aren’t accepting non-covid patients. People are dying at home due to non-covid illness. The ships are there to help those people, but can’t help if people are too afraid to even go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said: I mean we've had triple the deaths of swine flu... Globally, no. About 285,000 deaths from swine flu, and we have herd immunity to flu.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, mappy said: Did they close because it wasn’t needed anymore since area hospitals were able to manage patients? I don’t know the story... I think so. The outbreaks out west seem to be under control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mappy Posted April 17, 2020 Author Share Posted April 17, 2020 Just now, PhineasC said: I think so. The outbreaks out west seem to be under control. So then what’s the issue? A temp hospital was set up that ended up not being needed. That’s a good thing imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psuhoffman Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 16 minutes ago, PhineasC said: There is zero herd immunity to COVID. We may be compressing a really bad flu season into 2-3 months. That's my argument. I am not saying this is the flu. It can't be because we have herd immunity to the flu and vaccines. With no immunity letting this go would result in way more infections than a flu season. Even if the mortality was similar it would be an unacceptable result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, mappy said: Agreed but what does that matter in your question? Many aren’t going to hospitals for normal ER visits due to fear of getting sick, and ERs aren’t accepting non-covid patients. People are dying at home due to non-covid illness. The ships are there to help those people, but can’t help if people are too afraid to even go. If you are having a heart attack, you will go to the hospital. COVID fear should be a distant memory at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthArlington101 Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, PhineasC said: And what about the temp hospital they set up? The temp hospital in Seattle closed before they saw a single patient. Because I've been coming at you with citations, I will say that this is true! Though, again, the hospital was for non-COVID-19 patients. "Set up about a week ago by hundreds of U.S. Army soldiers, the 250-bed field hospital was intended to handle any overflow of non-COVID-19 patients while area medical centers dealt with the pandemic." I'd bet a significant amount of money that typical injuries and accidents have markedly decreased during lock-downs, of which Washington State has been in longer than anywhere in the United States. I think your premise -- the hospital system in the Seattle area hasn't been overwhelmed -- is correct. https://www.adn.com/nation-world/2020/04/09/seattles-army-built-field-hospital-is-coming-down-without-treating-a-single-patient/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 Just now, mappy said: So then what’s the issue? A temp hospital was set up that ended up not being needed. That’s a good thing imo Agreed. Not arguing it. I am arguing that the narrative of hospitals across the land being stuffed and people dying in the streets from lack of ventilators was overblown. Bigger impact now is hospitals are laying off staff and closing due to lack of patients... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psuhoffman Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 19 minutes ago, HighStakes said: Well said. I have to bite my tongue not to get involved in the conversation. I just cant believe what I'm reading and how some people have absolutely no empathy and compassion for others. There's just no way to keep politics out of this and that's why I've refrained from responding to some of these absurd posts. I stayed out if this for a long time. I decided to throw down for a bit. But I’m about ready to tap out again. Some of the arguments have veered off the path of intellectual integrity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mappy Posted April 17, 2020 Author Share Posted April 17, 2020 Just now, PhineasC said: If you are having a heart attack, you will go to the hospital. COVID fear should be a distant memory at that point. I agree, but panic is a real thing that greatly impacts ones decision to make otherwise logical decisions. It wouldn’t surprise me to see large numbers of people dying at home across the country, of non-covid reasons when all is said and done and data can be correct parsed out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, psuhoffman said: With no immunity letting this go would result in way more infections than a flu season. Even if the mortality was similar it would be an unacceptable result. Disagree strongly, but I totally see your viewpoint. There is no easy answer to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 Just now, psuhoffman said: I stayed out if this for a long time. I decided to throw down for a bit. But I’m about ready to tap out again. Some of the arguments have veered off the path of intellectual integrity. My logic and math are fine. Your issue is that I am not valuing the life of an 80 year old with COPD and heart failure highly enough. That's your right, even if I don't agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mappy Posted April 17, 2020 Author Share Posted April 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, PhineasC said: Agreed. Not arguing it. I am arguing that the narrative of hospitals across the land being stuffed and people dying in the streets from lack of ventilators was overblown. Bigger impact now is hospitals are laying off staff and closing due to lack of patients... I haven’t seen an argument that it’s that way across the land. Hotspot cities, sure, but not nationally. Sounds a bit hyperbolic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 1 minute ago, mappy said: I agree, but panic is a real thing that greatly impacts ones decision to make otherwise logical decisions. It wouldn’t surprise me to see large numbers of people dying at home across the country, of non-covid reasons when all is said and done and data can be correct parsed out I could see that too. and that's a shame. Unwarranted fear of COVID is dangerous too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 Just now, mappy said: I haven’t seen an argument that it’s that way across the land. Hotspot cities, sure, but not nationally. Sounds a bit hyperbolic The rationale for every single shutdown nationally was to avoid overwhelming hospitals. Flatten the curve is 100% about that. There is a shifting narrative now to say it was about readying ourselves for the fall wave, but that is revisionist BS. My memory isn't that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowGolfBro Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 We listened to a lot of dire predictions from experts. We reacted as a nation to slow the spread. But everyone has their limits. If u live in a state or locality that has had little or no impact you did your part for the last month or so. It’s only rational for people in NC for example to say enough is enough. Does that mean that NYC should feel the same way? Of course not. I live in a county that has about 600 cases and no deaths to date. Surely some of those people will sadly pass away. I’ve worked remotely, kept my family sheltered for the better part of a month. We did are part. The kids are ready to play with friends. I’m ready to go back to the office. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mappy Posted April 17, 2020 Author Share Posted April 17, 2020 Just now, PhineasC said: I could see that too. and that's a shame. Unwarranted fear of COVID is dangerous too... It is a shame. I know I don’t want to get this virus, or my kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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