COVID-19 Talk

[mappy]

2 minutes ago, SnowGolfBro said:

Are there many 20-45 year olds (the age of the vast majority of parents with young kids) dying from this virus?  

its small compared to older more vulnerable age groups, but this goes back to risk and every family having a different level of risk they are okay with. 

unfortunately, until either MD or VAs governors say its okay, we are all stuck at home

[ErinInTheSky]

1 minute ago, SnowGolfBro said:

No.  Kids were in school for months while Covid 19 was already in the country.  Also, aside from anecdotal stories the statistical chance of dying from the virus for a child under age 10 is effectively zero.

It's the teachers I'd be more concerned about, especially the 50yo+ teachers.

[mappy]

Just now, Leaking Gut said:

Does MD have any guidance when a family member tests positive?  If so, can someone point me to the protocols?  Doctor seems to think we all should be fine and don't need to do anything further.

IMO, you should all get tested. this was discussed earlier. this whole "unless you show symptoms" bullshit reasoning for not testing people is dumb. 

[Baltimorewx]

13 minutes ago, SnowGolfBro said:

 

No.  It’s not possible long term.  For a few weeks it was okay.  But keeping young kids from social interactions (playgrounds, general outdoor play, sports etc) will be damaging to them psychologically long term

I didn’t know you had your PHD in psychology but thanks! I’m not saying it should go on forever, or all year. Or even al month. My opinion about when all this should be relaxed wasn’t included in my post. Which by the way, I believe that gradually thru the course of this month we should begin the process of trying to open businesses again (with certain guidelines in place) and perhaps by June get some kind of sports going. That said, opening schools at this point would be useless so they can stay closed. 

[SnowGolfBro]

Just now, mappy said:

its small compared to older more vulnerable age groups, but this goes back to risk and every family having a different level of risk they are okay with. 

unfortunately, until either MD or VAs governors say its okay, we are all stuck at home

True.  I think more people will be willing to take on more risk as time goes by.  I think by mid May governors Hogan and Northam are going to have to relax restrictions.  Memorial Day could be the breaking point.  If pool season gets delayed there will be a larger public outcry

[yoda]

Just now, SnowGolfBro said:

True.  I think more people will be willing to take on more risk as time goes by.  I think by mid May governors Hogan and Northam are going to have to relax restrictions.  Memorial Day could be the breaking point.  If pool season gets delayed there will be a larger public outcry

Lol pool season outcry 

[mappy]

Just now, SnowGolfBro said:

True.  I think more people will be willing to take on more risk as time goes by.  I think by mid May governors Hogan and Northam are going to have to relax restrictions.  Memorial Day could be the breaking point.  If pool season gets delayed there will be a larger public outcry

Memorial Day weekend and pool seasons shouldn't be the reason why Hogan or Northam open the states. Youll have to do better than that for good reasons.

[SnowGolfBro]

Just now, wxtrix said:

please answer the question i asked you.

If a child contracts Coronavirus and then passes it to their parents and they die and wxtrix tells the child they killed their parent by going to the playground then that will have a negative psychological effect.  However, your example will affect relatively few children.  Whereas the current status quo is affecting millions of children.

[SnowGolfBro]

6 minutes ago, yoda said:

Lol pool season outcry 

I’m not a pool guy myself.  But downplay the pool outcry at your own risk

[nw baltimore wx]

Just now, SnowGolfBro said:

No.  Kids were in school for months while Covid 19 was already in the country.  Also, aside from anecdotal stories the statistical chance of dying from the virus for a child under age 10 is effectively zero.

The problem that I see with your argument is that kids will become carriers. Then their parents become carriers. No, many won’t die, but many will require hospitalization. And almost certainly grandparents will need hospitalization, and some would die.

Personally, I’m getting close to being on board with opening some businesses and letting people take their chances, What’s going to be different today than in 30 days?  A vaccine? Not likely. I think that quietly, politicians have accepted that we have to let the virus run through the population, but that we also have to make sure it happens slowly enough for adequate health care for those that get seriously ill. Exponential illnesses can get out of control very quickly so I don’t begrudge Hogan or any other politician for going about this with extreme conservatism.  I think letting kids play in groups though has the potential to quickly undo the good that last six weeks has done.

[NorthArlington101]

Memorial Day weekend and pool seasons shouldn't be the reason why Hogan or Northam open the states. Youll have to do better than that for good reasons.

If anyone thinks they are going to a pool that isn’t in their own backyard or HOA this summer, I’ve got a bridge to sell them. Maybe that’s too pessimistic, but we’ll see.

[mappy]

Just now, NorthArlington101 said:

If anyone thinks they are going to a pool that isn’t in their own backyard or HOA this summer, I’ve got a bridge to sell them. Maybe that’s too pessimistic, but we’ll see.

I am inclined to agree. i think even if states slowly start to reopen, you won't see the usual community pools operating normally, if at all this summer.

this goes for concerts, movie theaters, malls, restaurants, etc. its going to be a good long while before ANYTHING is operating business as usual. Regardless of when states give the all clear

I fully expect the 20 year anniversary Disturbed tour Ive got tickets too in July will not be going on as scheduled. And its okay... it is what it is. 

[SnowGolfBro]

2 minutes ago, nw baltimore wx said:

The problem that I see with your argument is that kids will become carriers. Then their parents become carriers. No, many won’t die, but many will require hospitalization. And almost certainly grandparents will need hospitalization, and some would die.

Personally, I’m getting close to being on board with opening some businesses and letting people take their chances, What’s going to be different today than in 30 days?  A vaccine? Not likely. I think that quietly, politicians have accepted that we have to let the virus run through the population, but that we also have to make sure it happens slowly enough for adequate health care for those that get seriously ill. Exponential illnesses can get out of control very quickly so I don’t begrudge Hogan or any other politician for going about this with extreme conservatism.  I think letting kids play in groups though has the potential to quickly undo the good that last six weeks has done.

Okay so when would it be appropriate to allow kids to play in groups/on playgrounds?  Tomorrow? Next week? Next month? Next year?  

[baldereagle]

1 hour ago, mappy said:

phin's arguments would go a lot further if he posted with less emotion and didn't act like an asshole all the time. 

              Rural passerby here ( which on this forum apparently, I have learned, in my case equates to ignorant redneck),  browsing through this thread and seeing that political trolling/emotion is on the upswing, as frustration rises. It's a political forum, that's for sure, albeit a whole lot more civil than the actual political forum. There's alot of value in this thread, and that is why I read it. Last week, though, I learned here that golfers think social distancing is a joke and put people at risk by their inconsiderate flagrant violations. This week I see increasing evidence that moderation of this sensitive topic is also frustrating, and leads toward authoritative judging and labelling people. I, for example, in response to occasionally voicing my opinion, have been  periodically labelled  a knuckledragging Neanderthal who adds nothing of value. Perhaps that is true regarding some of the things I've posted. I can be an antagonistic troll. Then I read some of the more valued posters' observations, personal insults and judgmentality  and... well, I have difficulty finding much value in a lot of that either.  Makes me glad to be a backward country bumpkin who is so uninformed in the eyes of others about the "unprecedented" covid-19 event. Wish I could always make intelligent statements that add value, but in this type setup opinion and philosophy are bound to create some conflict in the discussion. It's a microcosm of today's American landscape. I've read these threads for years and I don't see the referenced poster "acting like an asshole all the time." I can't think of any time when I ever saw anyone referred to in this way in any weather-related conversation.  But in this thread disagreement (and lack of proper credentials from the forum mavens will get you lit up. I see this happen with Phin, simply because he posts opinions that may not play well in the forum readership on this topic. Or Showme, who took a powder after getting hammered.  Carry on, the discussion is still good, even the arguing, as long as it stays away from the scorched-earth aura of the political forum. I can't imagine anyone thinks this thread isn't political. Oh damn,  I didn't add a thing of value (again).  Everyone be well, things will come around if we just go back to living soon without the government regulating almost every aspect of life, killing the economy and not allowing large segments of our workforce to be working. That is unprecedented, a serious viral outbreak is not.

[Leaking Gut]

1 minute ago, mappy said:

IMO, you should all get tested. this was discussed earlier. this whole "unless you show symptoms" bullshit reasoning for not testing people is dumb. 

do we each call our doctor and explain the situation?  It was pretty hard to get this family member tested and hes over 80, doctor said no point in doing it as there is no treatment.

[mappy]

2 minutes ago, Leaking Gut said:

do we each call our doctor and explain the situation?  It was pretty hard to get this family member tested and hes over 80, doctor said no point in doing it as there is no treatment.

sounds like you need a new doctor.

[mappy]

5 minutes ago, baldereagle said:

              Rural passerby here ( which on this forum apparently, I have learned, in my case equates to ignorant redneck),  browsing through this thread and seeing that political trolling/emotion is on the upswing, as frustration rises. It's a political forum, that's for sure, albeit a whole lot more civil than the actual political forum. There's alot of value in this thread, and that is why I read it. Last week, though, I learned here that golfers think social distancing is a joke and put people at risk by their inconsiderate flagrant violations. This week I see increasing evidence that moderation of this sensitive topic is also frustrating, and leads toward authoritative judging and labelling people. I, for example, in response to occasionally voicing my opinion, have been  periodically labelled  a knuckledragging Neanderthal who adds nothing of value. Perhaps that is true regarding some of the things I've posted. I can be an antagonistic troll. Then I read some of the more valued posters' observations, personal insults and judgmentality  and... well, I have difficulty finding much value in a lot of that either.  Makes me glad to be a backward country bumpkin who is so uninformed in the eyes of others about the "unprecedented" covid-19 event. Wish I could always make intelligent statements that add value, but in this type setup opinion and philosophy are bound to create some conflict in the discussion. It's a microcosm of today's American landscape. I've read these threads for years and I don't see the referenced poster "acting like an asshole all the time." I can't think of any time when I ever saw anyone referred to in this way in any weather-related conversation.  But in this thread disagreement (and lack of proper credentials from the forum mavens will get you lit up. I see this happen with Phin, simply because he posts opinions that may not play well in the forum readership on this topic. Or Showme, who took a powder after getting hammered.  Carry on, the discussion is still good, even the arguing, as long as it stays away from the scorched-earth aura of the political forum. I can't imagine anyone thinks this thread isn't political. Oh damn,  I didn't add a thing of value (again).  Everyone be well, things will come around if we just go back to living soon without the government regulating almost every aspect of life, killing the economy and not allowing large segments of our workforce to be working. That is unprecedented, a serious viral outbreak is not.

thanks for your thoughts. stay well.

[ErinInTheSky]

 

 

wow.

[nw baltimore wx]

15 minutes ago, SnowGolfBro said:

Okay so when would it be appropriate to allow kids to play in groups/on playgrounds?  Tomorrow? Next week? Next month? Next year?  

I honestly don’t know, but not now in my opinion. I’m not even sure what businesses should begin opening which is why I asked you and Phin for your thoughts.  The kids discussion is particularly difficult because there is a high risk that they have the virus and no one knows it.  A friend of mine is an actuary and they have had meetings centered around the notion that the goal of the stay at home orders is so that only 5 - 10% of the population gets exposed at a time. I just don’t see how that gets done, but letting kids play together could potentially expose a much larger percentage.

[mappy]

1 minute ago, wxtrix said:

there are treatments for some of the complications. you need to call another doctor ASAP.

if my doctor told me there was no point in having a family member tested and/or cared for Id be finding a new doctor pronto.

[SnowGolfBro]

4 minutes ago, nw baltimore wx said:

I honestly don’t know, but not now in my opinion. I’m not even sure what businesses should begin opening which is why I asked you and Phin for your thoughts.  The kids discussion is particularly difficult because there is a high risk that they have the virus and no one knows it.  A friend of mine is an actuary and they have had meetings centered around the notion that the goal of the stay at home orders is so that only 5 - 10% of the population gets exposed at a time. I just don’t see how you do that. But letting kids play together could potentially expose a much larger percentage.

I think all outdoor activities should be allowed.  I’d start there.  Playgrounds, outdoor dining, pools, golf courses, outdoor sports (like basketball, soccer, etc).  I would do that tomorrow in VA.  Then I’d phase in retail stores over the next week or two.  Then by Menorial Day i would recommend opening sit down restaurants and bars.

[SnowGolfBro]

Just now, wxtrix said:

this is a stupid answer.

 

And your an authoritarian fear monger who is rude and obnoxious.  But I’m still glad you are free to be the way you are.  

[nw baltimore wx]

2 minutes ago, SnowGolfBro said:

I think all outdoor activities should be allowed.  I’d start there.  Playgrounds, outdoor dining, pools, golf courses, outdoor sports (like basketball, soccer, etc).  I would do that tomorrow in VA.  Then I’d phase in retail stores over the next week or two.  Then by Menorial Day i would recommend opening sit down restaurants and bars.

I’m not trying to be asshat, but which, if any, of the following are true:

You don’t understand how your idea could lead to a flood of new cases

You don’t believe the virus is that big a deal so even if there is a flood of new cases, it won’t be a problem for our health system

Its every man for himself so if there’s a flood of cases and hospitals get overwhelmed, survival of the fittest

There won’t be a flood of new cases

Something else?
 

 And again, there’s no tone in my post, just wondering your thoughts. Phin, too, if/when he sees this.

[ErinInTheSky]

These people are insane.

[SnowGolfBro]

6 minutes ago, nw baltimore wx said:

I’m not trying to be asshat, but which, if any, of the following are true:

You don’t understand how your idea could lead to a flood of new cases

You don’t believe the virus is that big a deal so even if there is a flood of new cases, it won’t be a problem for our health system

Its every man for himself so if there’s a flood of cases and hospitals get overwhelmed, survival of the fittest

There won’t be a flood of new cases

Something else?
 

 And again, there’s no tone in my post, just wondering your thoughts. Phin, too, if/when he sees this.

I’ve seen the economic devastation and the emotional devastation of the virus and weighed that against the cases and deaths and heartache caused to those affected by the virus.  I believe the unprecedented whole society quarantine was the wrong approach.  Nursing homes and the elderly at high risk should be advised to self quarantine indefinitely.  Most hospitals are losing money and reducing staff hours or laying off staff.  The main concern in Mid March was that the hospital system would be overwhelmed.  If there are are any counties/cities with overwhelmed health systems that should be taken into account in their reopening decision.  I also believe the virus will spread much slower during the summer months and follow a more traditional cold/flu season pattern.  Your questions are reasonable and i appreciate a good, friendly discussion.

[SnowGolfBro]

7 minutes ago, wxtrix said:

and what about the virus?

We deal with it.  Like we deal with all other viruses.  We wash our hands, we search for therapeutics, cures and vaccines.  We make decisions personally about our safety.  If you determine that leaving your home for anything but necessities is what is best for you and your family more power to you.  If you own a restaurant and want to open to customers more power to you.  Flattening the curve was a noble experiment that had never been tried before.  But at some point people have to be free again.  And i believe the time is now.

[nw baltimore wx]

I want to continue the discussion but need to head out for some work. Will pick up later

[yoda]

VA to start slowly reopening May 15

https://www.wusa9.com/mobile/article/news/health/coronavirus/virginia-on-track-to-begin-reopening-may-15-unless-something-drastically-changes-northam-says/65-44e341bd-f8c8-49b0-b988-4700f2a493cb

[psuhoffman]

4 hours ago, PhineasC said:

This sounds like an argument to just stop the charade and open back up. 

I said about 50 pages ago that this whole argument is kinda moot and semantics because the “opening” wasn’t going to radically different from what we have now due to a combo of lax regulations, non compliance, and an opening that still is likely to include some social distancing measures. But you probably didn’t notice because you were busy typing your next post trying to get everyone else to live in constant fear of the government like you.  

[Eskimo Joe]

1 hour ago, Leaking Gut said:

Does MD have any guidance when a family member tests positive?  If so, can someone point me to the protocols?  Doctor seems to think we all should be fine and don't need to do anything further.

I am going to PM you some info.