COVID-19 Talk

[PhineasC]

Just now, mappy said:

I agree. That's a clear example where your employee's husband should get tested if his wife has a confirmed case. symptoms or not. 

It's why I have been so critical of the daily case numbers all along. They are not realistic at all under this kind of setup where getting a test is so hard. You have to be very sick or work in a high-risk environment (my employee's wife works in a nursing home).

[Yeoman]

26 minutes ago, mappy said:

I think his argument is Amazon was a bad example for you to list since they've been having so many issues with PPE and the like. Now, how hard is contact tracing? Lord knows the country needs thousands of them to make calls. That'd be the first place I'd go to if I found myself without a job.

Until the hospitals stop warning about a PPE shortages, I don't think you'll find any job which requires exposure to the public to not have an issue with enough PPE. If you have the luxury of sitting back and waiting for an offer from a company that does contact tracing, more power to you. Until then, why not use facts/numbers to determine your risk? What percentage of Amazon employees have died, gotten sick, etc? Living requires taking risk unless you live in a bubble

 

20 minutes ago, H2O said:

The PPE is def an issue.  But also the hours and pressure they have on employees to hit benchmarks for processing orders and deliveries.  

In the end, a job is a job and if needed to pay bills people will do what they feel they need to do. There wasn't a need to take it the way he did by simply saying Amazon isn't a nirvana workplace.  

The shit plant isn't either and I def don't promote working for it.

At the end of the day, that's my point. Amazon was simply an example.  I don't know about you but if it came down to paying the mortgage and feeding my kids, a job at Amazon would be nirvana for me, as would the shit plant.

[mappy]

Just now, PhineasC said:

It's why I have been so critical of the daily case numbers all along. They are not realistic at all under this kind of setup where getting a test is so hard. You have to be very sick or work in a high-risk environment (my employee's wife works in a nursing home).

oh sorry, i switched around the genders in my reply. but agree -- especially if she is working in a home. I thought Hogan had said they would be testing all nursing home residents and staff members... I assumed family of staff would be among them, as they should. 

I believe that is what happened in Salisbury Friday/Saturday. Any poultry employee and possibly their family, were all tested at a drive up site without any doc referrals or appointments. 

[mappy]

1 minute ago, Yeoman said:

Until the hospitals stop warning about a PPE shortages, I don't think you'll find any job which requires exposure to the public to not have an issue with enough PPE. If you have the luxury of sitting back and waiting for an offer from a company that does contact tracing, more power to you. Until then, why not use facts/numbers to determine your risk? What percentage of Amazon employees have died, gotten sick, etc? Living requires taking risk unless you live in a bubble

I just listed it as an example. I'm not in any position to tell anyone what they should or shouldn't do in terms of a job and what risk is worth it. 

[ErinInTheSky]

Georgia is still dead. This goes to @psuhoffman's point earlier about how the policies for the most part are just one part of the equation. Even states that have reopened are basically seeing nothing in terms of people flooding to engage in economic activity. It looks like people have internalized social distancing. Which also brings to mind... why try to get employees to return to work when the demand just isn't even there?

 

 

https://www.wabe.org/atlanta-area-malls-begin-to-reopen-after-virus-restrictions-eased/

 

“It ended up just being kind of surreal where you just go and no one’s there,” he told WSB-TV.

At Lenox Square in Buckhead, which reopens Monday, the owners are requiring workers to take safety precautions, such as being symptom-free and wearing masks at the mall. Arbor Place Mall in Douglasville set up sanitizing stations as it opened its doors and kept the children’s play area and food court seating closed.

Some shoppers think the openings are too soon and too risky.

“I’m fearful of people not taking safety precautions, and (I’d) rather be safe than to shop right now,” Tanya Moor said.

[Yeoman]

Just now, ErinInTheSky said:

Georgia is still dead. This goes to @psuhoffman's point earlier about how the policies for the most part are just one part of the equation. Even states that have reopened are basically seeing nothing in terms of people flooding to engage in economic activity. It looks like people have internalized social distancing. Which also brings to mind... why try to get employees to return to work when the demand just isn't even there?

 

 

https://www.wabe.org/atlanta-area-malls-begin-to-reopen-after-virus-restrictions-eased/

 

“It ended up just being kind of surreal where you just go and no one’s there,” he told WSB-TV.

At Lenox Square in Buckhead, which reopens Monday, the owners are requiring workers to take safety precautions, such as being symptom-free and wearing masks at the mall. Arbor Place Mall in Douglasville set up sanitizing stations as it opened its doors and kept the children’s play area and food court seating closed.

Some shoppers think the openings are too soon and too risky.

“I’m fearful of people not taking safety precautions, and (I’d) rather be safe than to shop right now,” Tanya Moor said.

There are too many stipulations to make it worthwhile for most, IMO.. many businesses are just not opening because they will just lose more than if they stayed closed if they can't fill the store or restaurant. Reading beyond the glee of thinking that others share in your fear, you also see the pain these small business and their families are going through. As someone already stated, the direct impact of the shutdowns on people's livelihoods may easily rival the virus in overall impact on mortality. I hope that's not the case.

[ErinInTheSky]

1 minute ago, Yeoman said:

There are too many stipulations to make it worthwhile for most, IMO.. many businesses are just not opening because they will just lose more than if they stayed closed if they can't fill the store or restaurant. Reading beyond the glee of thinking that others share in your fear, you also see the pain these small business and their families are going through. As someone already stated, the direct impact of the shutdowns on people's livelihoods may easily rival the virus in overall impact on mortality. I hope that's not the case.

I don't know where you are getting glee from. I'm trapped in my home just like everyone else. I'm just stating the fact that there are a lot of people who think that you're going to open up and then bam, economy's fine and the virus will go away when in reality, it's likely going to happen the opposite way.

[mappy]

3 minutes ago, Yeoman said:

There are too many stipulations to make it worthwhile for most, IMO.. many businesses are just not opening because they will just lose more than if they stayed closed if they can't fill the store or restaurant. Reading beyond the glee of thinking that others share in your fear, you also see the pain these small business and their families are going through. As someone already stated, the direct impact of the shutdowns on people's livelihoods may easily rival the virus in overall impact on mortality. I hope that's not the case.

where did you get this from? 

[ErinInTheSky]

I get why businesses might have trouble getting customers... I mean I'm kind of personally hoping that my son's daycare does not open soon because I'm getting used to paying less money for it and I don't want to have to make the decision to send my baby into a pandemic. I know it doesn't affect kids as hard but the last thing I want is for him to get sick, I have no idea the long term effects of this thing, I'd hate for him to carry it, etc.

 

So I mean having trouble with something as generally normally essential as a daycare, there's no way on earth I'm going to the mall or sitting in a restaurant right now.

[psuhoffman]

1 hour ago, Always in Zugzwang said:

Yeah, we hardly have a true "lock-down" (a'la Wuhan style).  More just a suppression of activity.  Are we barred from going outside to get some nice air, go for a ride, hike, go to the supermarket, just drive around ...?  No.  Hardly a grotesque infringement on freedom here.  Not saying it doesn't suck, but unusual times and all that.  It won't stop those who are convinced it's all a government ploy to take everything from you,  or that "they" just want an excuse to make this all permanent, etc., etc.  Or that a mask is repressing their right to...I'm not sure what.  How many people who believe that were OK with the stringent security measures taken in the aftermath of September 11?  But hey, that was mostly targeting "certain people", so maybe it was OK and patriotic (that was snark).

Oh the point your making hadn’t been lost on me. I’ve taken note of the people who were vehemently on the side of law enforcement and “respect authority” when there were altercations between police and POC but who are carrying on like a 4 year old throwing a tantrum now that authority is infringing on their liberty a little bit! 

[PhineasC]

The biggest impacts on kids are the lack of social interaction and the lost school time, not to mention the fear, uncertainty, etc.

The virus is not a threat to them at all. I have heard horror stories of scared parents keeping their kids locked at home for 6 weeks straight already. That's borderline abusive. At least them go play in the neighborhood or at the park.

[PhineasC]

Just now, psuhoffman said:

Oh the point your making hadn’t been lost on me. I’ve taken note of the people who were vehemently on the side of law enforcement and “respect authority” when there were altercations between police and POC but who are carrying on like a 4 year old throwing a tantrum now that authority is infringing in their liberty a little bit! 

OK, we gonna go there?

[ErinInTheSky]

1 minute ago, PhineasC said:

The biggest impacts on kids are the lack of social interaction and the lost school time, not to mention the fear, uncertainty, etc.

The virus is not a threat to them at all. I have heard horror stories of scared parents keeping their kids locked at home for 6 weeks straight already. That's borderline abusive. At least them go play in the neighborhood or at the park.

I've been going on hikes with mine and identifying plants and bugs and lots of Facetime. It's been a good compromise.

[mappy]

Just now, PhineasC said:

The biggest impacts on kids are the lack of social interaction and the lost school time, not to mention the fear, uncertainty, etc.

The virus is not a threat to them at all. I have heard horror stories of scared parents keeping their kids locked at home for 6 weeks straight already. That's borderline abusive. At least them go play in the neighborhood or at the park.

I agree that the lack of social interaction sucks for kids. But let me parent my kid how I see fit and you worry about yours. Just because YOU think its abuse, doesn't make it so and its not for you to decide. 

[PhineasC]

15 minutes ago, Yeoman said:

There are too many stipulations to make it worthwhile for most, IMO.. many businesses are just not opening because they will just lose more than if they stayed closed if they can't fill the store or restaurant. Reading beyond the glee of thinking that others share in your fear, you also see the pain these small business and their families are going through. As someone already stated, the direct impact of the shutdowns on people's livelihoods may easily rival the virus in overall impact on mortality. I hope that's not the case.

The point is to provide the freedom for them to operate. If the market for their business is lost, that's a different story and there is nothing any of us can do about it. 

There is definitely a subset of people who can't wait to flock to forums like this one to say "I told you so" if deaths in opened states suddenly spike. Zero doubt about it. Lockdowns have become a religious cause for some, and also a means to effect the social change they desire (universal health care, universal basic income, mass teleworking, etc.).

[H2O]

3 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

The biggest impacts on kids are the lack of social interaction and the lost school time, not to mention the fear, uncertainty, etc.

The virus is not a threat to them at all. I have heard horror stories of scared parents keeping their kids locked at home for 6 weeks straight already. That's borderline abusive. At least them go play in the neighborhood or at the park.

And I have seen parents doing all they can to make their kids comfortable with all this.  Video chats, outside activities, hanging out with family and neighbors at a safe distance.  

Sounds like you are the one more into fear porn by reading stories to push a narrative.

[Yeoman]

1 minute ago, PhineasC said:

The biggest impacts on kids are the lack of social interaction and the lost school time, not to mention the fear, uncertainty, etc.

The virus is not a threat to them at all. I have heard horror stories of scared parents keeping their kids locked at home for 6 weeks straight already. That's borderline abusive. At least them go play in the neighborhood or at the park.

Worse yet are those parents foregoing check ups and immunizations for fear of going into the doctors office when there has been zero evidence of that being an issue. That's the next shoe to drop when kids start getting infections that they could have been immunized for, leading to yet another health crisis.

[H2O]

Just now, PhineasC said:

The point is to provide the freedom for them to operate. If the market for their business is lost, that's a different story and there is nothing any of us can do about it. 

There is definitely a subset of people who can't wait to flock to forums like this one to say "I told you so" if deaths in opened states suddenly spike. Zero doubt about it. Lockdowns have become a religious cause for some, and also a means to effect the social change they desire (universal health care, universal basic income, mass teleworking, etc.).

There was a subset(you) that flocked here all weekend to post on and on about how hospitals aren't slammed so we should just take off all these oppressive restrictions and pedal to the metal.

[PhineasC]

2 minutes ago, mappy said:

I agree that the lack of social interaction sucks for kids. But let me parent my kid how I see fit and you worry about yours. Just because YOU think its abuse, doesn't make it so and its not for you to decide. 

I'm not saying you are doing anything wrong (your personal experience doesn't matter to me and please don't tell me about it), but keeping your kids locked up for 6 weeks out of fear is pretty bad, IMO. I'm sure many parents cringe at the sight of my kids playing in the park without masks on. Some may even consider calling the cops.

[PhineasC]

3 minutes ago, H2O said:

And I have seen parents doing all they can to make their kids comfortable with all this.  Video chats, outside activities, hanging out with family and neighbors at a safe distance.  

Sounds like you are the one more into fear porn by reading stories to push a narrative.

If you are letting your kids play outside, then we are on the same page.

[Yeoman]

Just now, PhineasC said:

The point is to provide the freedom for them to operate. If the market for their business is lost, that's a different story and there is nothing any of us can do about it. 

If the market is lost because no one wants their goods, or because they can't let more than 10 people in at a time? 

[H2O]

2 minutes ago, Yeoman said:

Worse yet are those parents foregoing check ups and immunizations for fear of going into the doctors office when there has been zero evidence of that being an issue. That's the next shoe to drop when kids start getting infections that they could have been immunized for, leading to yet another health crisis.

I've got two kids that will be due for their annual check ups in the next month.  We will call their pediatrician and follow their recommendations for the wellness check.  If parents are being too stupid to do similar things then not much we can do.  But parents not immunizing their kids has been going on long before this crisis.  There isn't an easy solution to bad parenting.

[PhineasC]

Just now, Yeoman said:

If the market is lost because no one wants their goods, or because they can't let more than 10 people in at a time? 

I agree, that's what I meant by freedom to operate. Take off the training wheels.

But a restaurant being open in GA might lead to more nursing home deaths, I guess.

[mappy]

3 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

I'm not saying you are doing anything wrong (your personal experience doesn't matter to me and please don't tell me about it), but keeping your kids locked up for 6 weeks out of fear is pretty bad, IMO. I'm sure many parents cringe at the sight of my kids playing in the park without masks on. Some may even consider calling the cops.

dont assume you know what parents are or are not doing, then say you dont want to hear about personal experiences. i have my own thoughts on your parenting style. but you do whatever works for your situation and your family. 

[Yeoman]

Just now, H2O said:

I've got two kids that will be due for their annual check ups in the next month.  We will call their pediatrician and follow their recommendations for the wellness check.  If parents are being too stupid to do similar things then not much we can do.  But parents not immunizing their kids has been going on long before this crisis.  There isn't an easy solution to bad parenting.

Very true.. this is also going to be an issue on a much larger scale when there is a vaccine approved for this.. it wouldn't surprise me if a large portion of the population willingly refuses to get it.

[mappy]

Just now, Yeoman said:

Very true.. this is also going to be an issue on a much larger scale when there is a vaccine approved for this.. it wouldn't surprise me if a large portion of the population willingly refuses to get it.

hahaha my kid keeps asking if a vaccine is made yet. she is looking forward to it (she also likes the dentist, she's weird). 

[PhineasC]

Just now, mappy said:

dont assume you know what parents are or are not doing, then say you dont want to hear about personal experiences. i have my own thoughts on your parenting style. but you do whatever works for your situation and your family. 

You seem to have taken my generic post personally. That's on you, not me. I am allowed to have the opinion that not allowing your kids outside for 6 weeks over fear of COVID-19 is pretty bad. I feel like most sane parents would agree. 

[SnowGolfBro]

7 minutes ago, mappy said:

I agree that the lack of social interaction sucks for kids. But let me parent my kid how I see fit and you worry about yours. Just because YOU think its abuse, doesn't make it so and its not for you to decide. 

Finally, common ground! Stop telling parents how to parent their kids.  I will start taking my kids to the playgrounds and send them back to school and play dates with their friends....oh wait the state has decided we can’t do that.  

[PhineasC]

1 minute ago, Yeoman said:

Very true.. this is also going to be an issue on a much larger scale when there is a vaccine approved for this.. it wouldn't surprise me if a large portion of the population willingly refuses to get it.

People will be afraid of a rushed vaccine that we were told scientists "raced" to create and produce. But enough folks will line up for it that we will quickly see if it is effective and/or dangerous.

[H2O]

1 minute ago, Yeoman said:

Very true.. this is also going to be an issue on a much larger scale when there is a vaccine approved for this.. it wouldn't surprise me if a large portion of the population willingly refuses to get it.

I can only assume that those who won't get a vaccine are already ones that dont and get their info from dubious news sources that fill their heads with other fear mongering type stuff.