COVID-19 Talk

[PhineasC]

6 minutes ago, DCTeacherman said:

So we just give up and say you’re on your own delivery workers? Get your own PPE and hope your employer takes it seriously?

Well, there is a balance. Fedex and Amazon should be providing masks for staff. I thought they were, actually. If not, that at least needs to be addressed.

[Yeoman]

Well, there is a balance. Fedex and Amazon should be providing masks for staff. I thought they were, actually. If not, that at least needs to be addressed.

Our UPS and FedEx drivers both haven’t worn masks since day one. Most I see on the streets don’t either.. I haven’t asked why but hard to believe either company has not made them readily available.

[PhineasC]

3 minutes ago, Yeoman said:

Our UPS and FedEx drivers both haven’t worn masks since day one. Most I see on the streets don’t either.. I haven’t asked why but hard to believe either company has not made them readily available.

Same here, the big company delivery guys around here don't wear masks. Have seen more DoorDash people with masks.

I always laugh when I see someone driving in their car alone with a mask on. That's pure fear and lemming-like adherence to the rules right there.

[SomeguyfromTakomaPark]

13 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

Well, there is a balance. Fedex and Amazon should be providing masks for staff. I thought they were, actually. If not, that at least needs to be addressed.

I’d be interested to know if social distancing is possible in the sorting facilities, maybe @dailylurker can speak to this.  

[psuhoffman]

1 hour ago, PhineasC said:

But, honestly, I think one of the biggest groups that will loudly demand continued social distancing and shutdowns are the teacher's unions, not the vulnerable seniors. Teachers will not want to go back in the fall, and if they do it will be pretty ridiculous, with tiny class sizes, shifted schedules, and no recess. If a school finds a suspected case of COVID-19, the entire school will need to shutdown for two weeks. Teachers will strike unless they get PPE and students are required to wear masks. There will be news reports of kids getting suspended for hugging a friend. Over the summer, this is going to become the touchpoint of the debate over this virus. That, and daycares.

You’ve made this type of comment a few times and you’re either just trying to antagonize because you know there are several educators here or you’re misinformed. 

I was my building rep for 2 years and a union chapter committee chair for 3.  And yes during that time I came across people trying to abuse the system to their personal advantage. One person even pressured me to file a grievance because an admin wrote him an email that supposedly made him wag his finger at the screen and caused an injury in his hand and he wanted compensation. Yea that was ridiculous. But that kind of crap was and still is the minority.  But because the union has to file every complain (even though the crazy ones almost always get denied) it doesn’t stop the bad publicity from the minority of lazy or “persecution complex” paranoid loonies from making us all look bad. 

What I spend most of my efforts on were trying to lobby for ways to make our pensions and benefits system more solvent and increasing teachers time in the classroom and on actual teaching vs the numerous tasks being increasingly delegated to teachers as budget cuts cost auxiliary positions in special ed, social services, guidance, and attendance monitoring. 

Right now the MAJORITY of teachers commenting and comments from the union are supportive of opening as soon as safely possible. But there are some legitimate concerns wrt specific issues that need to be resolved. The initial guidance document I’ve seen from MSDE regarding plans for a possible fall opening says desks must be 6 feet apart.  At my school class sizes are typically 30-40 but most classrooms can only hold about 15 desks with that spacing. So that does need to be resolved somehow.  Shifts are an option. But then how do you staff both shifts?  Another issue currently under consideration is how to monitor student health and what precautions to protect vulnerable students and teachers. Unfortunately because some patents don’t have a viable option of what to do with their children on short notice many students come to school in bad health under normal situations. If that happens with covid they would place the several students and teachers in the building that have serious health conditions at risk. And I know this won’t agree with your ideology, and you are totally entitled to your views on this,  but the education system typically views each individual life (regardless of medical condition or age) as valuable, precious, and worth taking into consideration wrt policy decisions. 

So are teachers trying to prevent schools from opening, NO. Is there a very reasonable and responsible discussion ongoing about how to open in a way that protects every child and adult in the buildings as much as possible...yes.  

[PrinceFrederickWx]

Won’t get into politics but this is an important turn obviously:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-pompeo-idUSKBN22F0SC

[PhineasC]

2 minutes ago, PrinceFrederickWx said:

Won’t get into politics but this is an important turn obviously:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-pompeo-idUSKBN22F0SC

We can't trust the Chinese numbers at all. For all of the faults of this country, our numbers are going to be as accurate as possible and plenty of people would blow the whistle if there was a cover-up.

[PhineasC]

4 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

You’ve made this type of comment a few times and you’re either just trying to antagonize because you know there are several educators here or you’re misinformed. 

I was my building rep for 2 years and a union chapter committee chair for 3.  And yes during that time I came across people trying to abuse the system to their personal advantage. One person even pressured me to file a grievance because an admin wrote him an email that supposedly made him wag his finger at the screen and caused an injury in his hand and he wanted compensation. Yea that was ridiculous. But that kind of crap was and still is the minority.  But because the union has to file every complain (even though the crazy ones almost always get denied) it doesn’t stop the bad publicity from the minority of lazy or “persecution complex” paranoid loonies from making us all look bad. 

What I spend most of my efforts on were trying to lobby for ways to make our pensions and benefits system more solvent and increasing teachers time in the classroom and on actual teaching vs the numerous tasks being increasingly delegated to teachers as budget cuts cost auxiliary positions in special ed, social services, guidance, and attendance monitoring. 

Right now the MAJORITY of teachers commenting and comments from the union are supportive of opening as soon as safely possible. But there are some legitimate concerns wrt specific issues that need to be resolved. The initial guidance document I’ve seen from MSDE regarding plans for a possible fall opening says desks must be 6 feet apart.  At my school class sizes are typically 30-40 but most classrooms can only hold about 15 desks with that spacing. So that does need to be resolved somehow.  Shifts are an option. But then how do you staff both shifts?  Another issue currently under consideration is how to monitor student health and what precautions to protect vulnerable students and teachers. Unfortunately because some patents don’t have a viable option of what to do with their children on short notice many students come to school in bad health under normal situations. If that happens with covid they would place the several students and teachers in the building that have serious health conditions at risk. And I know this won’t agree with your ideology, and you are totally entitled to your views on this,  but the education system typically views each individual life (regardless of medical condition or age) as valuable, precious, and worth taking into consideration wrt policy decisions. 

So are teachers trying to prevent schools from opening, NO. Is there a very reasonable and responsible discussion ongoing about how to open in a way that protects every child and adult in the buildings as much as possible...yes.  

You wrote a lot of words here but basically just agreed with what I posted. Schools can't open without mitigations in place such as smaller class sizes, shifts, mandatory PPE, no recess, etc.  and the union is driving that debate. That's exactly what I said... I never said it was bad or wrong. Just that it will happen and even when schools reopen it will be radically different than before.

[psuhoffman]

2 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

You wrote a lot of words here but basically just agreed with what I posted. Schools can't open without mitigations in place such as smaller class sizes, shifts, mandatory PPE, no recess, etc.  and the union is driving that debate. That's exactly what I said... I never said it was bad or wrong. Just that it will happen and even when schools reopen it will be radically different than before.

Except those recommendations were all made by MSDE at the state level without any input or pressure from us. We are collaborating with our local district in how to meet those standsrds building to building but you give us way too much power in this equation. 

[PhineasC]

1 minute ago, psuhoffman said:

Except those recommendations were all made by MSDE at the state level without any input or pressure from us. We are collaborating with our local district in how to meet those standsrds building to building but you give us way too much power in this equation. 

It seems very likely to me that teachers will strike if certain conditions are not met and the school boards take that into consideration. Agreed?

[PhineasC]

I truly think some Americans either forgot or never realized little Susie can already get a bad flu at school, bring it home, and send grandma into the ICU with deadly pneumonia. I really am seeing some people who think that risk never really existed before and it is a new deadly threat we need to address aggressively... we are so stupid.

[psuhoffman]

7 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

It seems very likely to me that teachers will strike if certain conditions are not met and the school boards take that into consideration. Agreed?

We can’t strike. It’s illegal in Maryland.  We would face severe retaliatory measures and our union would lose certification. The most we can do is threaten to “work to contract” which is some pressure since the district relies on many of us doing things above and beyond our actual required duties to function. But it’s far less power than you think we have. Parent advocacy is by far the leading pressure and influence on policy in MD. 

I don’t fault you for not knowing the intricacies of MD educational collective bargaining procedures. I don’t know squat about labor policies in many other fields. But you shouldn’t just assume and spread a narrative without that knowledge. 

[psuhoffman]

3 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

I truly think some Americans either forgot or never realized little Susie can already get a bad flu at school, bring it home, and send grandma into the ICU with deadly pneumonia. I really am seeing some people who think that risk never really existed before and it is a new deadly threat we need to address aggressively... we are so stupid.

And there is the “this is just like the flu” argument again. 

[PhineasC]

1 minute ago, psuhoffman said:

We can’t strike. It’s illegal in Maryland.  We would face severe retaliatory measures and our union would lose certification. The most we can do is threaten to “work to contract” which is some pressure since the district relies on many of us doing things above and beyond our actual required duties to function. But it’s far less power than you think we have. Parent advocacy is by far the leading pressure and influence on policy in MD. 

I don’t fault you for not knowing the intricacies of MD educational collective bargaining procedures. I don’t know squat about labor policies in many other fields. But you should just assume and spread a narrative without that knowledge. 

There are more states in the union than MD, hard to believe I know!

[psuhoffman]

1 minute ago, PhineasC said:

There are more states in the union than MD, hard to believe I know!

Where do you live again?  If you know...

[40westwx]

2 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

I truly think some Americans either forgot or never realized little Susie can already get a bad flu at school, bring it home, and send grandma into the ICU with deadly pneumonia. I really am seeing some people who think that risk never really existed before and it is a new deadly threat we need to address aggressively... we are so stupid.

Well of course the risk always existed.. but we never viewed it as a risk. I recommend watching the Pandemic documentary on Netflix.  It was made before COVID-19 and it goes in depth in to the efforts made by public health officials every year to monitor flu outbreaks.  It was very eye opening.  They actually have consortiums of hospitals that get on Conference Calls every morning to report status...

I really think if people knew that hundreds of thousands of people die every year of the flu..something like this might have happened already. Especially since our society is entering in to a period of altruism.

[Inverted_Trough]

Granny should get a flu shot.

[PhineasC]

Just now, 40westwx said:

Well of course the risk always existed.. but we never viewed it as a risk. I recommend watching the Pandemic documentary on Netflix.  It was made before COVID-19 and it goes in depth in to the efforts made by public health officials every year to monitor flu outbreaks.  It was very eye opening.  They actually have consortiums of hospitals that get on Conference Calls every morning to report status...

I really think if people knew that hundreds of thousands of people die every year of the flu..something like this might have happened already. Especially since our society is entering in to a period of altruism.

Humans are really bad with numbers, statistics, and determining cost versus benefit. Ask 1,000 random young people if we should try to save as many elderly lives as possible no matter the cost, and they will say yes. Tell them it will cost 10 trillion dollars and cause 40% of them to lose their jobs, the results would change.

[psuhoffman]

1 minute ago, PhineasC said:

No, just a comment on the crowd of lemmings that thinks we need to somehow reduce COVID spread to zero and then we will all be OK.

This virus is definitely not like the flu because it doesn't kill young people AT ALL.

There is a HUGE range between total eradication and treat it like the flu...which basically means virtually no mitigation measures. You continue to try to force a false binary choice of extreme policy positions. I reject that narrative. 

And with that I’m out for today. Maybe I’ll engage more tomorrow but your advocacy today was pretty lame and I’m bored with it. Maybe tomorrow you will bring your A game. 

[RDM]

40 minutes ago, forkyfork said:

this is such a white person post

In 20 plus years here and on Eastern before we've all seen a lot of things.  There's some thin lines on certain topics that are subjective in content and context, such as what is construed as politics or not, with a focused effort on avoiding the same.  The one thing that's never been a problem before nor tolerated is racist comments.  You've crossed a very clear line here now twice with the mere innuendo.  Does not matter if you are a red tag or some other perceived elevated title in the hierarchy, your comments, whoever you are, have no place here.    

[PhineasC]

Just now, psuhoffman said:

There is a HUGE range between total eradication and treat it like the flu...which basically means virtually no mitigation measures. You continue to try to force a false binary choice of extreme policy positions. I reject that narrative. 

And with that I’m out for today. Maybe I’ll engage more tomorrow but your advocacy today was pretty lame and I’m bored with it. Maybe tomorrow you will bring your A game. 

OK, have fun lurking in the thread and quietly raging the rest of the afternoon. LOL

[PhineasC]

Just now, RDM said:

In 20 plus years here and on Eastern before we've all seen a lot of things.  There's some thin lines on certain topics that are subjective in content and context, such as what is construed as politics or not, with a focused effort on avoiding the same.  The one thing that's never been a problem before nor tolerated is racist comments.  You've crossed a very clear line here now twice with the mere innuendo.  Does not matter if you are a red tag or some other perceived elevated title in the hierarchy, your comments, whoever you are, have no place here.    

Report it and see what happens. LOL

[yoda]

10 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

No, just a comment on the crowd of lemmings that thinks we need to somehow reduce COVID spread to zero and then we will all be OK.

This virus is definitely not like the flu because it doesn't kill young people AT ALL.

LOL - laughing at the false statement here

[Inverted_Trough]

1 minute ago, yoda said:

LOL - laughing at the false statement here

He's the king of hyperbole.  It's entertaining.

[rclab]

2 hours ago, forkyfork said:

wahhh i'm stuck at home with people i don't love

There there, Forkyfork. Think of how the people your stuck with are feeling  As. Matter of fact you may get revenge  just by staying there  with them. Either way you all win or lose depending, of course, on your perspective. As always ....

[PhineasC]

14 minutes ago, yoda said:

LOL - laughing at the false statement here

In the huge span of this global disease, kids don't die from COVID-19 AT ALL. Yes, there are reports of a tiny, tiny handful of deaths in kids with a positive COVID test. I know you are a super pedantic and specific person and to you this means "kids die from this virus too!" Most others here know exactly what I meant.

[aldie 22]

Some are rooting for 100,000 elderly people to die so their 401k can rebound. It's about priorities folks get on board 

[PhineasC]

14 minutes ago, Inverted_Trough said:

He's the king of hyperbole.  It's entertaining.

Hyperbole is stating here matter of factly that Vietnam has had zero deaths and China nearly eradicated the virus.

[PhineasC]

Just now, leesburg 04 said:

Some are rooting for 100,000 elderly people to die so their 401k can rebound. It's about priorities folks get on board 

Come on, this goes way beyond that. You work in a sector that is not as affected by the shutdowns (and may be doing better because of them). Most are not so lucky.

[Inverted_Trough]

5 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

Hyperbole is stating here matter of factly that Vietnam has had zero deaths and China nearly eradicated the virus.

I go by data.  You go by feelings.