COVID-19 Talk

[ErinInTheSky]

Just now, mappy said:

really? we have been trying to order out from local places couple times a week. delivery, or pick up. need to support these local places. not fast food chains, they are fine. its the ma/pa restaurants that need your business now more than ever

I'm basically taking every step I can to not introduce the virus into my household, so that's limiting deliveries and face to face contact, mail quarantine for a few days, washing/disinfecting deliveries, cleaning groceries, etc.

FWIW I do see a world where restaurants using takeout/delivery become mainstream even during a lockdown. This would be way different from "opening up for business" though.

Sounds like that's what they're already doing though. So circling back around to @SnowGolfBro - is your friend doing takeout/delivery? Sounds like that's what he needs to do.

[snowfan]

The local Italian place up the street from me already had curbside pickup before this hit and they're now just as busy as before. I ordered from there last friday and the line of cars when I picked up was 10 deep with a steady stream behind me.

[ErinInTheSky]

Just now, snowfan said:

The local Italian place up the street from me already had curbside pickup before this hit and they're now just as busy as before. I ordered from there last friday and the line of cars when I picked up was 10 deep with a steady stream behind me.

Kind of blows my mind. One of the main ways people got sick on the princess cruise was because there was a sick cook. Guess that's how we are still getting new cases even while locked down.

[snowfan]

2 minutes ago, supernovasky said:

Kind of blows my mind. One of the main ways people got sick on the princess cruise was because there was a sick cook. Guess that's how we are still getting new cases even while locked down.

I'd be shocked if transmission from cook's make up any significant portion of the new cases at this time.

[jaydreb]

14 minutes ago, supernovasky said:

God I'm too nervous to even get groceries delivered and I wash them profusely.

 

I can't even imagine ordering takeout right now. 

Your fear is perfectly relatable because we are still in the middle of the pandemic.  The numbers are still going up, etc. 

But you (and many others) may feel differently in (hopefully) a few months when there are only a handful of new cases in the entire state.  At some point your chances of catching the virus will become so low that you and others may be willing to accept a bit of risk so that you can begin to live your lives again.  And if you couple the reduced odds of catching the virus with better and better therapeutic options and you begin to see a way that we can slowly return to some form of normalcy (at least for people who are not at higher risk of severe illness). It’s not going to happen all at once, and until we have a vaccine it’s not going to be 100% like it was pre-virus, but we will get there.  

[Rhino16]

1 minute ago, snowfan said:

I'd be shocked if transmission from cook's make up any significant portion of the new cases at this time.

Yeah, I thought it was somewhat difficult to catch through food. If that changes, it wouldn’t be too great.

[ErinInTheSky]

1 minute ago, snowfan said:

I'd be shocked if transmission from cook's make up any significant portion of the new cases at this time.

People are still getting it some sort of way :shrug: Sounds like it's one possible way to get it. Curbside is probably safer, I wonder how many people/places are still doing in-store takeout. That seems like it would be a bit of a bigger risk.

Wouldn't surprise me too much though. Common handling of something that is passed from one person to another is a major vector. It's how the baggage handlers at Heathrow got infected and subsequently infected a large number of other people.

[jaydreb]

6 minutes ago, supernovasky said:

Kind of blows my mind. One of the main ways people got sick on the princess cruise was because there was a sick cook. Guess that's how we are still getting new cases even while locked down.

There may have been a sick cook who got others sick but there is no evidence that the virus is transmitted through food.  People probably got sick from contact with him/her personally.  

If you are afraid of the food, just microwave it for a minute.  

[ErinInTheSky]

Just now, Rhino16 said:

Yeah, I thought it was somewhat difficult to catch through food. If that changes, it wouldn’t be too great.

It's not the food, it's all the steps in getting the food from them to you and out of the container into your mouth. See the above re: Heathrow baggage handlers, Princess cruise lines.

 

R0 is 5-6 and it's pretty transmissible with respiratory droplets. Scenario: Cook is asymptomatic, breathes onto plastic bag, hands it off to you, you grab the food, put your hands on the steering wheel, drive home, rub your face, bam.

[ErinInTheSky]

2 minutes ago, jaydreb said:

There may have been a sick cook who got others sick but there is no evidence that the virus is transmitted through food.  People probably got sick from contact with him/her personally.  

If you are afraid of the food, just microwave it for a minute.  

It almost certainly isn't transmissible by food itseslf.

 

It's the surface transmission that will get you, and surface transmission has been confirmed with this bug.

[Eskimo Joe]

To East Coasts' point...if we committed nationally to something like this today...we could start opening things up in 3 to 4 weeks.  It would take absolute agreement from the business community to allow sick employees to work from home or be given sick leave.  

 

[SnowGolfBro]

11 minutes ago, supernovasky said:

I'm basically taking every step I can to not introduce the virus into my household, so that's limiting deliveries and face to face contact, mail quarantine for a few days, washing/disinfecting deliveries, cleaning groceries, etc.

FWIW I do see a world where restaurants using takeout/delivery become mainstream even during a lockdown. This would be way different from "opening up for business" though.

Sounds like that's what they're already doing though. So circling back around to @SnowGolfBro - is your friend doing takeout/delivery? Sounds like that's what he needs to do.

Well they just got a contract to feed some FEMA responders staying in a local Hotel! So he and his chef can get paid a few more weeks.  They toyed with the idea of delivery.  But the business model for most dine in/full service restaurants relies on Alcohol sales.  So the to go food option is nearly impossible for a lot of restaurants.

[ErinInTheSky]

4 minutes ago, jaydreb said:

Your fear is perfectly relatable because we are still in the middle of the pandemic.  The numbers are still going up, etc. 

But you (and many others) may feel differently in (hopefully) a few months when there are only a handful of new cases in the entire state.  At some point your chances of catching the virus will become so low that you and others may be willing to accept a bit of risk so that you can begin to live your lives again.  And if you couple the reduced odds of catching the virus with better and better therapeutic options and you begin to see a way that we can slowly return to some form of normalcy (at least for people who are not at higher risk of severe illness). It’s not going to happen all at once, and until we have a vaccine it’s not going to be 100% like it was pre-virus, but we will get there.  

Yeah I imagine I'll feel comfortable at the tail end of the decline when the chances are extremely low. Otherwise, I have no need to risk it.

[ErinInTheSky]

Just now, SnowGolfBro said:

Well they just got a contract to feed some FEMA responders staying in a local Hotel! So he and his chef can get paid a few more weeks.  They toyed with the idea of delivery.  But the business model for most dine in/full service restaurants relies on Alcohol sales.  So the to go food option is nearly impossible for a lot of restaurants.

That's awesome, super happy they got a contract with FEMA!

 

Yeah, I can imagine dine in services are going to suffer the most, even after we start returning to "normal"

[ErinInTheSky]

1 minute ago, Eskimo Joe said:

 

Singapore was freaking INCREDIBLE. Mass deployed tests and started testing like 3rd level contacts, traced everybody, published all locations contacts visited online, etc.

[jaydreb]

8 minutes ago, supernovasky said:

It almost certainly isn't transmissible by food itseslf.

 

It's the surface transmission that will get you, and surface transmission has been confirmed with this bug.

Yes, you are right that there is a risk of surface transmission but it is extremely low and can be almost totally mitigated by disposing of the packaging and washing your hands before touching your face.   

Look at these guys!  Not even gloves! If they’re OK with it, we can be too.   Personal choice of course.

 

[snowfan]

I thought all places were allowed to include alcohol in their carry out sales?

[ErinInTheSky]

8 minutes ago, jaydreb said:

Yes, you are right that there is a risk of surface transmission but it is extremely low and can be totally mitigated by disposing of the packaging and washing your hands before touching your face.   

 

For a second I thought those were the cooks LOL.

 

But surface transmission risk is not extremely low. In fact if anything I think there's good evidence that it's extremely high with how the countries that have gotten it under control have utilized extensive surface decontamination, with surface transmission being confirmed as a major risk of transmission (Debra Berks mentioned recently how they have been surprised at some of the surface transmissibility of the virus and how long it lives on surfaces), and with how easy it is for a surface transmissible agent to get through.

 

Like they give you the plastic bag with the takeout. Even if you have sanitizer in the car, you just placed it on your lap, or on the seat next to you. You sanitize, but then pick it up to bring it into your house and touch the doorknob. You go place it on the kitchen counter. 

 

Imagine the virus is like glitter lol. Eventually you have it everywhere. 

 

Hence why my practice has been: Get groceries delivered, wash them thoroughly, sanitize path from door to kitchen, bleach surfaces they sat on, washing hands multiple times through the process. 

 

What really hit home for me in needing to do all of this was reading the reports of the Heathrow baggage handlers, the cook on the Princess cruise line, and the Singapore church case where multiple people who sat in the same seat in the church at different times got sick.

[jaydreb]

5 minutes ago, supernovasky said:

For a second I thought those were the cooks LOL.

 

But surface transmission risk is not extremely low. In fact if anything I think there's good evidence that it's extremely high with how the countries that have gotten it under control have utilized extensive surface decontamination, with surface transmission being confirmed as a major risk of transmission (Debra Berks mentioned recently how they have been surprised at some of the surface transmissibility of the virus and how long it lives on surfaces), and with how easy it is for a surface transmissible agent to get through.

 

Like they give you the plastic bag with the takeout. Even if you have sanitizer in the car, you just placed it on your lap, or on the seat next to you. You sanitize, but then pick it up to bring it into your house and touch the doorknob. You go place it on the kitchen counter. 

 

Imagine the virus is like glitter lol. Eventually you have it everywhere. 

 

Hence why my practice has been: Get groceries delivered, wash them thoroughly, sanitize path from door to kitchen, bleach surfaces they sat on, washing hands multiple times through the process. 

 

What really hit home for me in needing to do all of this was reading the reports of the Heathrow baggage handlers, the cook on the Princess cruise line, and the Singapore church case where multiple people who sat in the same seat in the church at different times got sick.

Surface transmission is real but I haven’t seen anything suggesting that the risk of getting the virus from a take out bag is “extremely high.”   Is it possible?  Yes. That’s why you wash your hands and take other precautions.

NOTE: I don’t really practice what I preach.  I have allowed pizza delivery exactly once and even then had a full military operation to make sure there was no contamination.  But I think I am just letting fear overcome logic.   

[NorthArlington101]

7 minutes ago, supernovasky said:

For a second I thought those were the cooks LOL.

 

But surface transmission risk is not extremely low. In fact if anything I think there's good evidence that it's extremely high with how the countries that have gotten it under control have utilized extensive surface decontamination, with surface transmission being confirmed as a major risk of transmission (Debra Berks mentioned recently how they have been surprised at some of the surface transmissibility of the virus and how long it lives on surfaces), and with how easy it is for a surface transmissible agent to get through.

 

Like they give you the plastic bag with the takeout. Even if you have sanitizer in the car, you just placed it on your lap, or on the seat next to you. You sanitize, but then pick it up to bring it into your house and touch the doorknob. You go place it on the kitchen counter. 

 

Imagine the virus is like glitter lol. Eventually you have it everywhere. 

 

Hence why my practice has been: Get groceries delivered, wash them thoroughly, sanitize path from door to kitchen, bleach surfaces they sat on, washing hands multiple times through the process. 

 

What really hit home for me in needing to do all of this was reading the reports of the Heathrow baggage handlers, the cook on the Princess cruise line, and the Singapore church case where multiple people who sat in the same seat in the church at different times got sick.

Yeah, I've found it wild how much people are relying on delivery and takeout. I understand that it is essential that support be given to restaurants and I'm far from anti-restaurant, but any unnecessary contact is a risk that I'm not willing to take. While the virus material decreases significantly over time on these surfaces, the scientific consensus is that:

"the COVID-19 virus can survive up to three days on plastic and stainless steel. It was detected on copper up to four hours, on cardboard up to 24 hours and it can also linger in tiny particles in the air for up to three hours."

Hence, I'm avoiding anything that exposes me unnecessarily. I'll help my family wipe down the groceries, but getting a takeout dinner is an unnecessary risk. I love my local joints, but I'm not willing to risk it.

I realize that handwashing and not touching your face resolve all these issues, but that requires everyone in the family to be diligent. And then there is the problem of the counters you place the food on, the car (as @supernovasky mentioned), etc.

[ErinInTheSky]

In case people need sources for surface transmission (all academic):

 

https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/modes-of-transmission-of-virus-causing-covid-19-implications-for-ipc-precaution-recommendations

https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMc2004973

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6914e1.htm (has the Singapore church case)

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e3.htm?s_cid=mm6912e3_w (princess cruise)

 

(there are dozens at this point)

[ErinInTheSky]

1 minute ago, jaydreb said:

Surface transmission is real but I haven’t seen anything suggesting that the risk of getting the virus from a take out bag is “extremely high.”   Is it possible?  Yes. That’s why you wash your hands and take other precautions.

NOTE: I don’t really practice what I preach.  I have allowed pizza delivery exactly once and even then had a full military operation to make sure there was no contamination.  But I think I am just letting fear overcome logic.   

I laughed pretty hard at that last point haha. I mean it's understandable, we're all nervous as hell over this damn bug. I want it to just go away.

[ErinInTheSky]

1 minute ago, NorthArlington101 said:

Yeah, I've found it wild how much people are relying on delivery and takeout. I understand that it is essential that support be given to restaurant and I'm far from anti-restaurant, but any unnecessary contact is a risk that I'm not willing to take. While the virus material decreases significantly over time on these surfaces, the scientific consensus is that:

"the COVID-19 virus can survive up to three days on plastic and stainless steel. It was detected on copper up to four hours, on cardboard up to 24 hours and it can also linger in tiny particles in the air for up to three hours."

Hence, I'm avoiding anything that exposes me unnecessarily. I'll help my family wipe down the groceries, but getting a takeout dinner is an unnecessary risk. I love my local joints, but I'm not willing to risk it.

This is actually the guideline I've been using to determine how to handle items given to me in the pandemic.

 

- Mail goes into a quarantine container for 2 days (24 hours should be safe but I just make sure)

- Plastic, if nothing is perishible inside, it gets quarantined for 3 days and washed.

- If it's perishible like groceries, that's when I have my military operation, walk it to the kitchen, and do my washing, bleaching of surfaces I walked over and where the groceries sat, heck even putting the used grocery bags in the trash can, I spray bleach into the trash can that way when I grab the bag, the smell that you usually smell that has trash in it could have virus particles. I have my strategy for grocery deliveries down.

- Clothing, cloth, etc gets quarantined for like 3 days and then washed on high temp. Make sure to spray down your dirty laundry basket in between.

[jaydreb]

4 minutes ago, NorthArlington101 said:

Yeah, I've found it wild how much people are relying on delivery and takeout. I understand that it is essential that support be given to restaurants and I'm far from anti-restaurant, but any unnecessary contact is a risk that I'm not willing to take. While the virus material decreases significantly over time on these surfaces, the scientific consensus is that:

"the COVID-19 virus can survive up to three days on plastic and stainless steel. It was detected on copper up to four hours, on cardboard up to 24 hours and it can also linger in tiny particles in the air for up to three hours."

Hence, I'm avoiding anything that exposes me unnecessarily. I'll help my family wipe down the groceries, but getting a takeout dinner is an unnecessary risk. I love my local joints, but I'm not willing to risk it.

I realize that handwashing and not touching your face resolve all these issues, but that requires everyone in the family to be diligent. And then there is the problem of the counters you place the food on, the car (as @supernovasky mentioned), etc.

Yes, every time you bring something in or have something delivered you are increasing your risk somewhat.  You’re also taking arguably a greater risk by going out to the grocery store.   Obviously the more you bring food in, the greater your risk.  But (personally), in an effort to acheive some degree of normalcy, I don’t think that getting the occasional delivery or take out (let’s say a few times a month) is taking on a huge amount of risk, especially if precautions are taken.  But everyone’s risk tolerance is different.  

 

[jaydreb]

6 minutes ago, supernovasky said:

This is actually the guideline I've been using to determine how to handle items given to me in the pandemic.

 

- Mail goes into a quarantine container for 2 days (24 hours should be safe but I just make sure)

- Plastic, if nothing is perishible inside, it gets quarantined for 3 days and washed.

- If it's perishible like groceries, that's when I have my military operation, walk it to the kitchen, and do my washing, bleaching of surfaces I walked over and where the groceries sat, heck even putting the used grocery bags in the trash can, I spray bleach into the trash can that way when I grab the bag, the smell that you usually smell that has trash in it could have virus particles. I have my strategy for grocery deliveries down.

- Clothing, cloth, etc gets quarantined for like 3 days and then washed on high temp. Make sure to spray down your dirty laundry basket in between.

Wow.  Just curious, do you have underlying health conditions or are you immunocompromised such that you are at high risk for serious illness?

[ErinInTheSky]

Just now, jaydreb said:

Wow.  Just curious, do you have underlying health conditions or are you immunocompromised such that you are at high risk for serious illness?

High blood pressure seems to be a risk factor.

[ErinInTheSky]

Just now, jaydreb said:

Wow.  Just curious, do you have underlying health conditions or are you immunocompromised such that you are at high risk for serious illness?

That being said nothing other than HBP. I just refuse to catch this damn virus.

[jaydreb]

17 minutes ago, supernovasky said:

That being said nothing other than HBP. I just refuse to catch this damn virus.

Understood.  I’m definitely not judging.  I probably do 50% of what you have on your list.  I am going crazy with the handwashing though.  Probably doesn’t matter because my kids spend all day on the couch chewing their nails and picking their noses. 

[mappy]

Hogan has accepted the Board of Elections recommendations to have a mail-in ballot primary in June

 

[Jebman]

 

We ARE gonna die.

You're gonna die.

I'm gonna die.

We're all gonna die.

Just not today.

 

We are gonna kick Coronavirus's azz. Its gonna take us awhile, but we ARE gonna win! We will prevail, and this too shall pass.