COVID-19 Talk

[mappy]

Good suggestion @C.A.P.E.

Lets move all COVID chatter here, and please TRY to keep it as politics free as you can. I know that there will be mentions of pressers, articles, statements, facts, etc. But please try and not to throw blame around, put down others for there stances, etc. 

Stay well, friends. Don't make me delete your posts.  

[showmethesnow]

18 minutes ago, C.A.P.E. said:

It is a shame that engaging in a discussion involving politics always seems to 'devolve" into trolling and name calling, but it is a sign of the times we live in. No one is changing any minds on personal world views, etc. That said, it is possible to have rational and respectful discussions/debates, as long as those involved are open minded and have a reasonable level of intelligence.

It is what it is unfortunately. I quite often used to have debates with others and actually enjoyed them. I have always felt that you needed both sides of a story to get a healthy perspective on the issues.  But I have found now-a-days that fewer and fewer are even interested in civil discourse let alone trying to get an understanding of differing views. What we have now is pretty much an echo chamber on both sides of the aisle where like minded people scream their like thoughts back and forth to each other and any differing opinions are squashed. It sort of reminds me of what you see with a group of people psyching each other just prior to a brawl/riot. And I tremble to think of where our country is heading when I see this type of behavior. As they say, ''A house divided falls' and that is exactly what I see across the board in America. Which is shocking when you consider our current crisis. You would think that at least now we could put aside our differences for a common cause. But I guess not.

[Baltimorewx]

30 minutes ago, C.A.P.E. said:

Pretty ignorant. Maybe read this, or use google to learn a little more.

https://www.statesman.com/news/20200326/fact-check-is-chinese-culture-to-blame-for-coronavirus

An excerpt:

 

I’m sorry you feel that way but it’s not ignorant at all...have you seen the videos of these markets? I won’t post one here because it’s quite vile. But go ahead and check it out. 
 

https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2020/02/18/why_do_new_disease_outbreaks_always_seem_to_start_in_china.html

[CAPE]

22 minutes ago, showmethesnow said:

It is what it is unfortunately. I quite often used to have debates with others and actually enjoyed them. I have always felt that you needed both sides of a story to get a healthy perspective on the issues.  But I have found now-a-days that fewer and fewer are even interested in civil discourse let alone trying to get an understanding of differing views. What we have now is pretty much an echo chamber on both sides of the aisle where like minded people scream their like thoughts back and forth to each other and any differing opinions are squashed. It sort of reminds me of what you see with a group of people psyching each other just prior to a brawl/riot. And I tremble to think of where our country is heading when I see this type of behavior. As they say, ''A house divided falls' and that is exactly what I see across the board in America. Which is shocking when you consider our current crisis. You would think that at least now we could put aside our differences for a common cause. But I guess not.

Without hijacking the new thread lol, I will just say this. For me it is not a Democrat vs Republican thing. Sure I lean left on many issues, but I have plenty of conservative friends and relatives, and with at least a handful of them, I do discuss politics and it is actually constructive and enjoyable. The biggest dividing element today in our politics is the behavior of the president himself, who has no ideology (which could have been a good thing).

[CAPE]

16 minutes ago, Baltimorewx said:

I’m sorry you feel that way but it’s not ignorant at all...have you seen the videos of these markets? I won’t post one here because it’s quite vile. But go ahead and check it out. 
 

https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2020/02/18/why_do_new_disease_outbreaks_always_seem_to_start_in_china.html

My response was not specifically about the wet markets. It was the generalization you made about Chinese culture.

[Baltimorewx]

9 minutes ago, C.A.P.E. said:

My response was not specifically about the wet markets. It was the generalization you made about Chinese culture.

Wet markets are apart of their way of life in many provinces over there. I stated there’s a reason many diseases originate there and sourced a reliable article supporting it. There’s nothing ignorant about that

[showmethesnow]

16 minutes ago, C.A.P.E. said:

Without hijacking the new thread lol, I will just say this. For me it is not a Democrat vs Republican thing. Sure I lean left on many issues, but I have many plenty of conservative friends and relatives, and with at least a handful of them, I do discuss politics and it is actually constructive and enjoyable. The biggest dividing element today in our politics is the behavior of the president himself, who has no ideology (which could have been a good thing).

Trump? You really do believe in throwing the elephant into the room.  I think we might be better served by focusing on the pros and cons of the corona virus  policies themselves when it comes to it rather then taking shots at the Trumps, Pelosi's, McConnell's, Schumer's or whomever else brings strong polarizing reactions. Otherwise this thread will quickly turn ugly with no meaningful discussion. But that is just my opinion.

[CAPE]

2 minutes ago, Baltimorewx said:

Wet markets are apart of their way of life in many provinces over there. I stated there’s a reason many diseases originate there and sourced a reliable article supporting it. There’s nothing ignorant about that

You stated that their way of life over there is disgusting. So you said that solely because of the wet markets? Again, you are ignorant.

 

 

 

[Baltimorewx]

5 minutes ago, C.A.P.E. said:

You stated that their way of life over there is disgusting. So you said that solely because of the wet markets? Again, you are ignorant.

 

 

 

We’re talking about a culture that slaughters dogs and cats for meat...and exotic animals and then cages and sells them, much of the time killing them live in person. What are we really talking about here? Does the entire population participate in this? Of course not. But it is a large part of the culture over there. Again, I stated a reliable source supporting  that particular way of life likely contributes to these disease outbreaks. If you didn’t like my particular wording, apologies but we’re talking semantics 

[mappy]

14 minutes ago, showmethesnow said:

Trump? You really do believe in throwing the elephant into the room.  I think we might be better served by focusing on the pros and cons of the corona virus  policies themselves when it comes to it rather then taking shots at the Trumps, Pelosi's, McConnell's, Schumer's or whomever else brings strong polarizing reactions. Otherwise this thread will quickly turn ugly with no meaningful discussion. But that is just my opinion.

i support this! showmethesnow for mod!

[understudyhero]

4 minutes ago, Baltimorewx said:

We’re talking about a culture that slaughters dogs and cats for meat...and exotic animals and then cages and sells them, much of the time killing them live in person. What are we really talking about here? Does the entire population participate in this? Of course not. But it is a large part of the culture over there. Again, I stated a reliable source supporting  that particular way of life likely contributes to these disease outbreaks. If you didn’t like my particular wording, apologies but we’re talking semantics 

Have you seen Tiger King yet? Do you think our entire country is above the behavior you are talking about? I grew up in Missouri I assure you we are not. We literally got horse in school and squirrel at the baby sitters.

[Baltimorewx]

1 minute ago, understudyhero said:

Have you seen Tiger King yet? Do you think our entire country is above the behavior you are talking about? I grew up in Missouri I assure you we are not. We literally got horse in school and squirrel at the baby sitters.

America has a problem with keeping exotic animals in captivity for profit. Hence SeaWorld. But I’ve never heard of a wide reaching range of a problem of selling exotic animals for meat at markets. Does it maybe happen it the boondocks? Ok, I’ll Concede. But not in cities and provinces where literally millions of people live and congregate 

[mappy]

1 minute ago, WxWatcher007 said:

Off to a great start I see

its close... im letting it play out

[mappy]

Just now, WxWatcher007 said:

Same thing in the NE thread. We’ll be fine.

i was in there this morning, few reported posts. you guys are funny. 

[CAPE]

36 minutes ago, showmethesnow said:

Trump? You really do believe in throwing the elephant into the room.  I think we might be better served by focusing on the pros and cons of the corona virus  policies themselves when it comes to it rather then taking shots at the Trumps, Pelosi's, McConnell's, Schumer's or whomever else brings strong polarizing reactions. Otherwise this thread will quickly turn ugly with no meaningful discussion. But that is just my opinion.

I was just expanding on what you were saying about the heightened lack of civil discourse and dueling echo chambers, which all seems worse than I can ever recall. The last part of my post was right along those lines. I wasn't taking any shots. But yes, I agree this wont bear any fruit here.

[showmethesnow]

2 minutes ago, mappy said:

i was in there this morning, few reported posts. you guys are funny. 

I am sure @WxWatcher007 was stirring the pot. 

[mappy]

9 minutes ago, showmethesnow said:

I am sure @WxWatcher007 was stirring the pot. 

ha, wasn't him. but ive been reminded why i shouldnt go there. so ill stay here

[showmethesnow]

1 minute ago, C.A.P.E. said:

I was just expanding on what you were saying about the heightened lack of civil discourse and dueling echo chambers, which all seems worse than I can ever recall. The last part of my post was right along those lines. I wasn't taking any shots. But yes, I agree this wont bear any fruit here.

I wasn't calling you out by any means. Well maybe a little. You did take a quick pot shot at Trump after all. 

But your point is pretty much on target. We have some very polarizing figures on both sides of the aisle that are focal points for the wide almost insurmountable chasm we now see between the two different ideologies. But I would probably argue that these figures aren't so much the cause of the issues more so then they are a product of this deep ideological divide. Take out the underlining issues (the divide) and we wouldn't have these polarizing figures as there would be no need for them. In other words, they are nothing more then a product of our times. Just my thoughts.

 

[H2O]

3 minutes ago, WxWatcher007 said:

Some days I read the board and just want to quit altogether. But then I’m reminded that (for the most part) there’s more good than bad here. 

Until I start posting and then its all downhill

[H2O]

1 minute ago, WxWatcher007 said:

I long for the days where our forum wars are over snow  

They could fill the potomac in and I'd still get a enough of a river breeze to keep my temps 32.00000000000001 while mappyland and Bob Chill get PUMMELED!!!!!!!11!!11111!!!!!!

[mappy]

its fine, its over and done with. posts removed. apologies given. lets all move along.

[CAPE]

2 minutes ago, showmethesnow said:

I wasn't calling you out by any means. Well maybe a little. You did take a quick pot shot at Trump after all. 

But your point is pretty much on target. We have some very polarizing figures on both sides of the aisle that are focal points for the wide almost insurmountable chasm we now see between the two different ideologies. But I would probably argue that these figures aren't so much the cause of the issues more so then they are a product of this deep ideological divide. Take out the underlining issues (the divide) and we wouldn't have these polarizing figures as there would be no need for them. In other words, they are nothing more then a product of our times. Just my thoughts.

 

Actually I was attempting to make what I thought was an objective, if not obvious, observation about how starkly divided people are on Trump himself, aside from ideological beliefs/policy issues. This has intensified the lack of discourse, the echo chambers, the trolling/name calling. Trump is Trump. He is who he has always been.

 

 

 

[clueless]

1 hour ago, Baltimorewx said:

We’re talking about a culture that slaughters dogs and cats for meat...and exotic animals and then cages and sells them, much of the time killing them live in person. What are we really talking about here? Does the entire population participate in this? Of course not. But it is a large part of the culture over there. Again, I stated a reliable source supporting  that particular way of life likely contributes to these disease outbreaks. If you didn’t like my particular wording, apologies but we’re talking semantics 

I’ve seen a few of these markets. I’m not sure what to say except that this is not something that will end soon without huge pushback from the public.  Maybe the Chinese will be able to control it for a bit.  But they will be up and running again when the pandemic subsides. It will take an enormous education effort over a generation to eradicate them. 

[Baltimorewx]

Group of dudes playing football at the park today but less than 10 so not much to be done about it lol

[showmethesnow]

1 hour ago, supernovasky said:

I mean I know 6 months sounds like a long time but we're kind of heading that direction regardless. By the way, the 40% false negative/positive thing was NOT the WHO test, it was one shitty test that China was using. See here: https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/biden-trump-wrong-about-who-coronavirus-tests/

 

“The test has been validated in three external laboratories, adapted by WHO and manufactured in line with international quality standards,” a WHO spokesperson said. “It has shown consistently good performance in laboratory and clinical use, and neither a significant number of false-positive nor false-negative results have been reported.”

The White House and the vice president’s office did not respond to our requests for comment or clarification. But Birx told the New York Times that the test she alluded to with a 47 to 50% false positive rate was not the WHO test, but rather a diagnostic used in China."

6 months? Not really expecting that myself. Think a more realistic time frame is more like another 4-6 weeks from this point in time, maybe upwards 8 weeks max before we can really start relaxing things. But that is just my opinion for whatever that's worth..

As far as the testing I will have to try to go back and look into the details. Been some time since I researched this so details aren't as clear as they were before. This was pretty much a jumbled period of time with multiple tests, multiple failure rates, multiple abilities on be able to getting the product out in the numbers needed, multiple testing requirements etc..., etc..., etc... But really, this is all pretty much water under the bridge at this point. Something to go back to after the fact and research the failures we saw. Systemic failures across the board put in place over the last 15-20 years.

 

But I will throw one thing your way as far as the WHO test.

This is an excerpt from Mikka Luster, PhD Medicine and Healthcare, European University Cyprus.

 

First, the WHO test is a lab based test. One that requires special labs. It works well in China, where it’s OK to force people to work 48 hours en bloc and where every city has one of those labs. It doesn’t work so well in most of Europe and the US, where we have one or two of those labs to 20 to 80 million people.

The FDA, as did Germany, Spain, Switzerland, Sweden, Norway, and many other countries, decided that it would not be implementable to have this test run. It’s still not OK to force people to work 48 hour shifts or to work them to death (https://news.joins.com/article/2... and http://www.donga.com/news/articl... are two examples of this). The two I just linked come from South Korea, a country usually mentioned as the great place that managed to test so many people. That’s a price the US (or Germany, etc.) won’t pay. Two lab workers have died, not from COVID but from overworking in those labs. The test requires a dedicated lab tech for six minutes per sample and five more at the end. That’s 11 minutes, plus 12 minutes of physician/nurse time to sample it. This does not scale.

The full transcript can be found here. https://www.quora.com/Why-are-other-countries-able-to-do-Coronavirus-COVID-19-virus-tests-numbering-in-the-hundreds-of-thousands-while-the-U-S-can-only-do-a-few-thousand?share=1

[CAPE]

So anyone wearing a mask when going out to get groceries now?

I am heading out shortly. I have a legit respirator for spraying bad shiit. Maybe I will wear it. Should get some interesting looks.

[mappy]

1 minute ago, C.A.P.E. said:

So anyone wearing a mask when going out to get groceries now?

I am heading out shortly. I have a legit respirator for spraying bad shiit. Maybe I will wear it. Should get some interesting looks.

no. but i do take some wipes with me to use on the cart handle and picking up products. i have tried to only grab what i need, not looking at product details and the like, then putting it back. disinfecting wipes on EVERYTHING we get and bring home. 

[CAPE]

4 minutes ago, mappy said:

no. but i do take some wipes with me to use on the cart handle and picking up products. i have tried to only grab what i need, not looking at product details and the like, then putting it back. disinfecting wipes on EVERYTHING we get and bring home. 

Yeah I am definitely taking the wipes along.

[ErinInTheSky]

14 minutes ago, showmethesnow said:

6 months? Not really expecting that myself. Think a more realistic time frame is more like another 4-6 weeks from this point in time, maybe upwards 8 weeks max before we can really start relaxing things. But that is just my opinion for whatever that's worth..

As far as the testing I will have to try to go back and look into the details. Been some time since I researched this so details aren't as clear as they were before. This was pretty much a jumbled period of time with multiple tests, multiple failure rates, multiple abilities on be able to getting the product out in the numbers needed, multiple testing requirements etc..., etc..., etc... But really, this is all pretty much water under the bridge at this point. Something to go back to after the fact and research the failures we saw. Systemic failures across the board put in place over the last 15-20 years.

 

But I will throw one thing your way as far as the WHO test.

This is an excerpt from Mikka Luster, PhD Medicine and Healthcare, European University Cyprus.

 

First, the WHO test is a lab based test. One that requires special labs. It works well in China, where it’s OK to force people to work 48 hours en bloc and where every city has one of those labs. It doesn’t work so well in most of Europe and the US, where we have one or two of those labs to 20 to 80 million people.

The FDA, as did Germany, Spain, Switzerland, Sweden, Norway, and many other countries, decided that it would not be implementable to have this test run. It’s still not OK to force people to work 48 hour shifts or to work them to death (https://news.joins.com/article/2... and http://www.donga.com/news/articl... are two examples of this). The two I just linked come from South Korea, a country usually mentioned as the great place that managed to test so many people. That’s a price the US (or Germany, etc.) won’t pay. Two lab workers have died, not from COVID but from overworking in those labs. The test requires a dedicated lab tech for six minutes per sample and five more at the end. That’s 11 minutes, plus 12 minutes of physician/nurse time to sample it. This does not scale.

The full transcript can be found here. https://www.quora.com/Why-are-other-countries-able-to-do-Coronavirus-COVID-19-virus-tests-numbering-in-the-hundreds-of-thousands-while-the-U-S-can-only-do-a-few-thousand?share=1

Given that there are a lot of fake/false news on the tests out there right now, I'm trying to focus on verifiable sites. It's pretty clear that the WHO test (not the chinese one) worked in several countries, and by not adopting mass early testing and instead opting for a bunk test that, face it, allowed an American company to profit instead of a european one, we failed miserably. 

 

A Harvard team is working on this issue right now, showing how many deaths would have been prevented by mass early testing.

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/490534-harvard-expert-we-clearly-would-have-had-a-very-different-situation

 

When all is said and done, the United States failures will lead to us having the most deaths and cases per capita out of any developed nation. Mark my words. We're already well on our way.

 

[mappy]

4 minutes ago, C.A.P.E. said:

Yeah I am definitely taking the wipes along.

i have to run out later today. we are running dangerously low on milk and creamer. too much coffee these days lol and i never realized how much milk my kid actually drank hahahaha