Upstate NY Banter and General Discussion..

[winter_rules]

6 hours ago, BuffaloWeather said:

My wifes entire law firm might close down. They're firing almost everyone. 200+ employees in 5 states. I'm so done with covid lockdowns and the destruction its causing. Open up everything.

BW, I’m mainly just a lurker on this forum, but you seem to have a good head on your shoulders and I appreciate your regular posts about weather and trips to the Adirondacks. I’m sorry to hear about your mother’s situation - there’s not much worse in the world than helplessly watching a parent fight a bad disease.  On top of that, your wife must be very frustrated about her employment.  2020 has been rough for you.  I wish the best of luck to the two most important women in your life! 
 

In relation to your wife’s employment, what are the latest statewide numbers for deaths and hospitalizations relative to positive tests?  People near Oneonta are freaking out because college kids are not practicing social distancing (what a shock...).  There are now 65 current cases in Otsego County, but zero hospitalizations.  I can’t help but wonder if the virus has mutated to cause a less serious illness?  Not one person in my social/work circle has contracted the virus in months, but I have heard, 2nd hand, of two local situations of an older person dying of other causes but the families finding COVID on the death certificate!  Both families are fighting to get that changed, but you know the statistics won’t be updated to remove a few deaths.  I’m not a conspiracy nut, but I am starting to wonder about how much of a role politics is playing in this pandemic.  That’s a very scary situation if it’s true....

[TugHillMatt]

11 hours ago, BuffaloWeather said:

My wifes entire law firm might close down. They're firing almost everyone. 200+ employees in 5 states. I'm so done with covid lockdowns and the destruction its causing. Open up everything.

I'm so sorry to hear this, BW. So many are either losing their jobs or those that are working, are working their butts off to exhaustion. 

[BuffaloWeather]

4 hours ago, winter_rules said:

BW, I’m mainly just a lurker on this forum, but you seem to have a good head on your shoulders and I appreciate your regular posts about weather and trips to the Adirondacks. I’m sorry to hear about your mother’s situation - there’s not much worse in the world than helplessly watching a parent fight a bad disease.  On top of that, your wife must be very frustrated about her employment.  2020 has been rough for you.  I wish the best of luck to the two most important women in your life! 
 

In relation to your wife’s employment, what are the latest statewide numbers for deaths and hospitalizations relative to positive tests?  People near Oneonta are freaking out because college kids are not practicing social distancing (what a shock...).  There are now 65 current cases in Otsego County, but zero hospitalizations.  I can’t help but wonder if the virus has mutated to cause a less serious illness?  Not one person in my social/work circle has contracted the virus in months, but I have heard, 2nd hand, of two local situations of an older person dying of other causes but the families finding COVID on the death certificate!  Both families are fighting to get that changed, but you know the statistics won’t be updated to remove a few deaths.  I’m not a conspiracy nut, but I am starting to wonder about how much of a role politics is playing in this pandemic.  That’s a very scary situation if it’s true....

Ty for the kind words, the key is to always keep a positive mindset! 

In regards to Covid. I honestly don’t know what is going on. My friend in California had all symptoms for 8 days. He tested negative twice. He got the antibody test a few weeks later and he had antibodies. Another person I know had all the symptoms for 2 weeks 102+ fever and tested negative twice and third test was positive. The testing sucks. There are so many unknowns. I’ve had several clients tell me stories of friends or relatives dying of cancer, heart attack, etc and it being reported as Covid. The numbers are 100% being manipulated. A client from Florida knew someone that passed and the family fought the Covid on the death certificate and won. 
 

https://nbc25news.com/news/local/cdc-94-of-covid-19-deaths-had-underlying-medical-conditions

[MJO812]

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/were-going-to-see-it-in-k-12-cuomo-urges-caution-on-nyc-school-reopening-amid-rough-start-for-colleges/2593541/

[vortmax]

22 hours ago, BuffaloWeather said:

Ty for the kind words, the key is to always keep a positive mindset! 

In regards to Covid. I honestly don’t know what is going on. My friend in California had all symptoms for 8 days. He tested negative twice. He got the antibody test a few weeks later and he had antibodies. Another person I know had all the symptoms for 2 weeks 102+ fever and tested negative twice and third test was positive. The testing sucks. There are so many unknowns. I’ve had several clients tell me stories of friends or relatives dying of cancer, heart attack, etc and it being reported as Covid. The numbers are 100% being manipulated. A client from Florida knew someone that passed and the family fought the Covid on the death certificate and won. 
 

https://nbc25news.com/news/local/cdc-94-of-covid-19-deaths-had-underlying-medical-conditions

Read this too. Can anyone find this same data for the flu? Particularly H3N2? Would be interesting to compare. In 2018 80,000 Americans died in that season.

[tim123]

Cdc revised actual desths from covid alone to about 9000.

[WNash]

On 8/30/2020 at 12:13 PM, BuffaloWeather said:

Ty for the kind words, the key is to always keep a positive mindset! 

In regards to Covid. I honestly don’t know what is going on. My friend in California had all symptoms for 8 days. He tested negative twice. He got the antibody test a few weeks later and he had antibodies. Another person I know had all the symptoms for 2 weeks 102+ fever and tested negative twice and third test was positive. The testing sucks. There are so many unknowns. I’ve had several clients tell me stories of friends or relatives dying of cancer, heart attack, etc and it being reported as Covid. The numbers are 100% being manipulated. A client from Florida knew someone that passed and the family fought the Covid on the death certificate and won. 
 

https://nbc25news.com/news/local/cdc-94-of-covid-19-deaths-had-underlying-medical-conditions

I’m truly sorry about the stress you and your wife are going through. I’ve been there. It’s terrible. But your argument by anecdote to assert that the death count is being inflated is wrong, both factually and morally, and undermines bonafide public health measures to control the spread of the disease.

[BuffaloWeather]

7 hours ago, WNash said:

I’m truly sorry about the stress you and your wife are going through. I’ve been there. It’s terrible. But your argument by anecdote to assert that the death count is being inflated is wrong, both factually and morally, and undermines bonafide public health measures to control the spread of the disease.

I know this is the case due to excess deaths, but that is not an excuse to label something covid that isn't. If my mom got Covid next week and died, her death certificate would be covid. It would not be stage 4 cancer, which makes no sense. I see multiple death certs on my desk each week, and have a few friends that work in hospitals that have seen this occur as well. It's not just reading a few news articles. 

[winter_rules]

1 hour ago, BuffaloWeather said:

I know this is the case due to excess deaths, but that is not an excuse to label something covid that isn't. If my mom got Covid next week and died, her death certificate would be covid. It would not be stage 4 cancer, which makes no sense. I see multiple death certs on my desk each week, and have a few friends that work in hospitals that have seen this occur as well. It's not just reading a few news articles. 

Agreed.  I trust very little of what I hear on the news or read online, including this forum, but I do trust people I know stating facts about their families.  It’s not guaranteed to be truthful every time, but it stands a better chance of being truthful than almost anywhere else.  

[WNash]

11 hours ago, BuffaloWeather said:

I know this is the case due to excess deaths, but that is not an excuse to label something covid that isn't. If my mom got Covid next week and died, her death certificate would be covid. It would not be stage 4 cancer, which makes no sense. I see multiple death certs on my desk each week, and have a few friends that work in hospitals that have seen this occur as well. It's not just reading a few news articles. 

That’s an issue with the doctors represent cause of death on death certificates in general. The rule is supposed to be that the immediate cause of death is primary, and other conditions that contributed to the death are detailed in a separate part of the death certificate — “intermediate” or “underlying” causes of death.

I know this because when my father died three years ago, what the death certificate actually said became very important. He died of multiple organ failure caused by a c diff infection when he was in the ICU with congestive heart failure caused by agent orange toxicity. The VA rated him at  100% disabled (actually higher, VA disability ratings defy math) due to service. He was ground-based FAC in Vietnam, and drank and showered in Agent Orange contamination for two different six month tours. As a consequence, his health was destroyed from multiple chronic diseases. 

When a physician at the hospital where he died initially completed his death certificate, it only referred to multiple organ failure from c diff. But without the death certificate referring to the reason he was in the ICU to begin with — ischemic heart disease — the VA wouldn’t pay a widow’s benefit to my mother, who was my father’s caregiver for years. So I contacted the physician who completed the death certificate, and he agreed that the underlying cause of death was the ischemic heart disease that put him in the ICU where he was vulnerable to the infection that killed him. As a result, my mother receives a widow’s benefit.

COVID deaths are handled no differently than any other death in that regard. A friend in Mississippi lost his mother to COVID recently. She had COPD and had survived cancer. The chronic condition COPD was listed as a contributor to the death by COVID. Alternative, there are clear COVID deaths that don’t refer to COVID on the death certificate. A friend of a friend, a healthy guy in his late 30s living in NYC, no underlying conditions, had COVID symptoms for two weeks in April. They didn’t test him, but he clearly had COVID (he gave to his wife and her brothers who were tested). In early June, he died of a stroke — he had never had hypertension, no high risk behavior like smoking. It’s highly likely that deaths like this are COVID sequelae not being coded as COVID in the data.

So please don’t misrepresent the standard practices involved in specifying cause of death as a conspiracy to inflate COVID numbers. It’s not true. 
 

 

[MJO812]

He is getting  sued by everyone. 

NY wedding venues sue Cuomo for same rights as restaurants amid coronavirus pandemic

https://www.fox5ny.com/news/ny-wedding-venues-sue-cuomo-for-same-rights-as-restaurants-amid-coronavirus-pandemic

[BuffaloWeather]

16 hours ago, WNash said:

That’s an issue with the doctors represent cause of death on death certificates in general. The rule is supposed to be that the immediate cause of death is primary, and other conditions that contributed to the death are detailed in a separate part of the death certificate — “intermediate” or “underlying” causes of death.

I know this because when my father died three years ago, what the death certificate actually said became very important. He died of multiple organ failure caused by a c diff infection when he was in the ICU with congestive heart failure caused by agent orange toxicity. The VA rated him at  100% disabled (actually higher, VA disability ratings defy math) due to service. He was ground-based FAC in Vietnam, and drank and showered in Agent Orange contamination for two different six month tours. As a consequence, his health was destroyed from multiple chronic diseases. 

When a physician at the hospital where he died initially completed his death certificate, it only referred to multiple organ failure from c diff. But without the death certificate referring to the reason he was in the ICU to begin with — ischemic heart disease — the VA wouldn’t pay a widow’s benefit to my mother, who was my father’s caregiver for years. So I contacted the physician who completed the death certificate, and he agreed that the underlying cause of death was the ischemic heart disease that put him in the ICU where he was vulnerable to the infection that killed him. As a result, my mother receives a widow’s benefit.

COVID deaths are handled no differently than any other death in that regard. A friend in Mississippi lost his mother to COVID recently. She had COPD and had survived cancer. The chronic condition COPD was listed as a contributor to the death by COVID. Alternative, there are clear COVID deaths that don’t refer to COVID on the death certificate. A friend of a friend, a healthy guy in his late 30s living in NYC, no underlying conditions, had COVID symptoms for two weeks in April. They didn’t test him, but he clearly had COVID (he gave to his wife and her brothers who were tested). In early June, he died of a stroke — he had never had hypertension, no high risk behavior like smoking. It’s highly likely that deaths like this are COVID sequelae not being coded as COVID in the data.

So please don’t misrepresent the standard practices involved in specifying cause of death as a conspiracy to inflate COVID numbers. It’s not true. 
 

 

We can agree to disagree. Covid deaths are definitely handled differently due to the Cares Act. 

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/investigations/questions-over-the-accuracy-of-how-the-state-tracks-covid-deaths/283-0b1b7b6c-695e-4313-92cf-a4cfd7510721

[BuffaloWeather]

No timeline in regards to the $300. This state is a joke. 

https://cbs6albany.com/news/coronavirus/nysdol-says-wait-on-300wk-unemployment-benefit-partly-due-to-number-of-claimants

[vortmax]

1 hour ago, BuffaloWeather said:

We can agree to disagree. Covid deaths are definitely handled differently due to the Cares Act. 

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/investigations/questions-over-the-accuracy-of-how-the-state-tracks-covid-deaths/283-0b1b7b6c-695e-4313-92cf-a4cfd7510721

There should be a national standard as to death classification in regards to COVID. What Colorado did, changing the way they count COVID deaths (with vs by) seems reasonable as it gives more detail to the data. However, what is the precedent? How are flu deaths counted? It seems logical to follow precedent.

[Buckeyes_Suck]

2 hours ago, BuffaloWeather said:

We can agree to disagree. Covid deaths are definitely handled differently due to the Cares Act. 

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/investigations/questions-over-the-accuracy-of-how-the-state-tracks-covid-deaths/283-0b1b7b6c-695e-4313-92cf-a4cfd7510721

I agree, I think its pretty apparent that Covid is being politicized. Its as divisive a topic as religion. 

[MJO812]

 

CDC Tells States to Get Ready for Nov. 1 Vaccine Distribution

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-02/cdc-tells-states-to-get-ready-for-nov-1-vaccine-distribution?utm_content=business&utm_source=facebook&cmpid=socialflow-facebook-business&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic

[OSUmetstud]

21 hours ago, BuffaloWeather said:

We can agree to disagree. Covid deaths are definitely handled differently due to the Cares Act. 

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/investigations/questions-over-the-accuracy-of-how-the-state-tracks-covid-deaths/283-0b1b7b6c-695e-4313-92cf-a4cfd7510721

Kinda incredible that people believe this is happening en masse or systematically when there's been 250K excess deaths since Feb and there's been 275K influenza, pneumonia, and COVID deaths over the same time frame. 

[OSUmetstud]

On 9/1/2020 at 9:39 PM, WNash said:

That’s an issue with the doctors represent cause of death on death certificates in general. The rule is supposed to be that the immediate cause of death is primary, and other conditions that contributed to the death are detailed in a separate part of the death certificate — “intermediate” or “underlying” causes of death.

I know this because when my father died three years ago, what the death certificate actually said became very important. He died of multiple organ failure caused by a c diff infection when he was in the ICU with congestive heart failure caused by agent orange toxicity. The VA rated him at  100% disabled (actually higher, VA disability ratings defy math) due to service. He was ground-based FAC in Vietnam, and drank and showered in Agent Orange contamination for two different six month tours. As a consequence, his health was destroyed from multiple chronic diseases. 

When a physician at the hospital where he died initially completed his death certificate, it only referred to multiple organ failure from c diff. But without the death certificate referring to the reason he was in the ICU to begin with — ischemic heart disease — the VA wouldn’t pay a widow’s benefit to my mother, who was my father’s caregiver for years. So I contacted the physician who completed the death certificate, and he agreed that the underlying cause of death was the ischemic heart disease that put him in the ICU where he was vulnerable to the infection that killed him. As a result, my mother receives a widow’s benefit.

COVID deaths are handled no differently than any other death in that regard. A friend in Mississippi lost his mother to COVID recently. She had COPD and had survived cancer. The chronic condition COPD was listed as a contributor to the death by COVID. Alternative, there are clear COVID deaths that don’t refer to COVID on the death certificate. A friend of a friend, a healthy guy in his late 30s living in NYC, no underlying conditions, had COVID symptoms for two weeks in April. They didn’t test him, but he clearly had COVID (he gave to his wife and her brothers who were tested). In early June, he died of a stroke — he had never had hypertension, no high risk behavior like smoking. It’s highly likely that deaths like this are COVID sequelae not being coded as COVID in the data.

So please don’t misrepresent the standard practices involved in specifying cause of death as a conspiracy to inflate COVID numbers. It’s not true. 
 

 

Nice post man. It's really disappointing that people on what should be a science forum stop caring about science and think some large conspiracy is afoot. 

[BuffaloWeather]

5 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

Nice post man. It's really disappointing that people on what should be a science forum stop caring about science and think some large conspiracy is afoot. 

Science is  being mixed with political motives. I mean you really think a safe vaccine is going to be ready by Nov 1st? Every medical professional I spoke to including someone with a PHD in pharm says that is virtually impossible. The CDC is pushing a vaccine by Nov 1st. You think this isn't politically motivated? The election is Nov 3rd...What a coincidence...

https://news.yahoo.com/cdc-tells-states-prepare-distribution-231945460.html

[BuffaloWeather]

29 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

Kinda incredible that people believe this is happening en masse or systematically when there's been 250K excess deaths since Feb and there's been 275K influenza, pneumonia, and COVID deaths over the same time frame. 

It might not be systematic, but it shouldn't happen at all. It's far too prevalent to list someone as a COVID death that died from several years of battling cancer...

Like I said you work in Met. I see death certs on my desk and speak to family members in which this occurred. I know more about this than you do. You cannot trust the media and even the CDC is at times being controlled by the government. 

[OSUmetstud]

Just now, BuffaloWeather said:

Science is  being mixed with political motives. I mean you really think a safe vaccine is going to be ready by Nov 1st? Every medical professional I spoke to including someone with a PHD in pharm says that is virtually impossible. The CDC is pushing a vaccine by Nov 1st. You think this isn't politically motivated? 

https://news.yahoo.com/cdc-tells-states-prepare-distribution-231945460.html

This is a completely different issue. You completely bought that that 94% of covid-with nonsense without even bothering looking at the data. 

The FDA licenses vaccines, not the CDC. 

I don't have a problem with the CDC telling states to get ready for large-scale vaccine distribution, as long as the final approval by the FDA goes through the proper channels and is science-based. 

[BuffaloWeather]

2 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

This is a completely different issue. You completely bought that that 94% of covid-with nonsense without even bothering looking at the data. 

The FDA licenses vaccines, not the CDC. 

I don't have a problem with the CDC telling states to get ready for large-scale vaccine distribution, as long as the final approval by the FDA goes through the proper channels and is science-based. 

You'll be getting the vaccine in early Nov than? You really trust it by then? 

[OSUmetstud]

1 minute ago, BuffaloWeather said:

It might not be systematic, but it shouldn't happen at all. It's far too prevalent to list someone as a COVID death that died from several years of battling cancer...

Like I said you work in Met. I see death certs on my desk and speak to family members in which this occurred. I know more about this than you do. You cannot trust the media and even the CDC is at times being controlled by the government. 

Eh, you couldn't possibly know if COVID contributed to death sooner in the end. That's something that you've decided to make political since death certificates list multiple causes.

You're basing your opinions on some anecdotes and jumping to conspiracy. 

The system isn't obviously perfect, but if it were doing a poor job overall, the excess deaths wouldn't as high as they are...

[OSUmetstud]

Just now, BuffaloWeather said:

You'll be getting the vaccine in early Nov than? You reallytrust it by then? 

as long as the final approval by the FDA goes through the proper channels and is science-based. 

wtf does this mean to you? 

The data will be released to the public. So independent scientists and people like you and I can look at the data and can make a decision. 

Like I said as long as the decision is clearly based on science, like there's strong evidence of efficacy and safety then yes, I will take it. 

 

[BuffaloWeather]

2 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

Eh, you couldn't possibly know if COVID contributed to death sooner in the end. That's something that you've decided to make political since death certificates list multiple causes.

You're basing your opinions on some anecdotes and jumping to conspiracy. 

The system isn't obviously perfect, but if it were doing a poor job overall, the excess deaths wouldn't as high as they are...

The Flu can contribute to death sooner, but it's never listed on a death cert. 

[OSUmetstud]

Just now, BuffaloWeather said:

The Flu can contribute to death sooner, but it's never listed on a death cert. 

Bullshit. 

[OSUmetstud]

Why doesn’t CDC base its seasonal flu mortality estimates only on death certificates that specifically list influenza?

Seasonal influenza may lead to death from other causes, such as pneumonia, congestive heart failure, or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. It has been recognized for many years that influenza is underreported on death certificates. There may be several reasons for underreporting, including that patients aren’t always tested for seasonal influenza virus infection, particularly older adults who are at greatest risk of seasonal influenza complications and death. Even if a patient is tested for influenza, influenza virus infection may not be identified because the influenza virus is only detectable for a limited number of days  after infection and many people don’t seek medical care in this interval. Additionally, some deaths – particularly among those 65 years and older – are associated with secondary complications of influenza (including bacterial pneumonias). For these and other reasons, modeling strategies are commonly used to estimate flu-associated deaths. Only counting deaths where influenza was recorded on a death certificate would be a gross underestimation of influenza’s true impact.

[BuffaloWeather]

18 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

Bullshit. 

I've never seen it. I've seen lots of Covid though. 

[OSUmetstud]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloWeather said:

I've never seen it. I've seen lots of Covid though. 

Yeah, that's because it's uncommon (not never) to be listed and influenza tests aren't done all the time, which why the CDC uses data and modeling to estimate the flu burden yearly. Do you review all US death certificates?

We're testing for COVID a great deal because we're in the middle of pandemic. 

[BuffaloWeather]

I don't see how you think it isn't politically driven though. Vaccine by Nov 1st (election Nov 3) I mean look at Pelosi with no mask in the salon. Covid is most certainly a bad illness. 2-4 times worse then the yearly flu. However, states are keeping businesses closed and not allowing them to operate freely and PPP has dried up. The repercussions of this are going to be far worse than the illness itself. If they want to keep things locked down, they have to give businesses and the people money to stay locked down. Cuomo is destroying this state worse then he already has.