Upstate NY Banter and General Discussion..

[TugHillMatt]

2 hours ago, DeltaT13 said:

Whats the latest?  Is her oxygen stable?  Getting better?  Scary stuff.  

 

2 hours ago, BuffaloWeather said:

This right here is why everyone should get vaccinated. Who wants to go through this? This is scary stuff. Your family is in our thoughts.

 

2 hours ago, vortmax said:

I thought they both got vax? Or just Tug? Regardless, I hope she recovers quickly. Praying.

Hey, guys! Thanks for checking in. I appreciate it. She ended up getting a breathing treatment and a prescribed inhaler. She has had a consistent low-grade fever since last Monday. Still miserable. She's trying to get up and do the hourly walk/deep breathing and then she has to sit down because she gets light-headed and dizzy.

I am so saddened for her. It looks like I got the 2nd Vax JUST in time and I think it's done it's job protecting me (even though I'm not technically "fully" vaxxed - 2 weeks- until this Friday.

I was PISSED when she told me how the doctor talked to her. My wife is such a lady of grace, so she didn't say anything...but the doctor told her "You chose this, and this is the consequence of not being vaxxed." Now, my wife is NOT one of those rebellious individuals. As you all know, we had some concerns..and she was about to do it. The doctor was horrible to her and wasn't even going to help her. Walked out the door and said, "maybe you'll get an inhaler." The nurses must have talked with her because they did end up doing the breathing treatment (the nurses were super kind.)

I DON'T CARE what choice an individual makes...you don't punish them for that choice when it's potentially a matter of life and death. Yes, there are natural consequences, but this shaming process TICKED me off. Lucky I couldn't go in there with her....

My wife said, "She was an overstressed doctor during a pandemic..and she's probably dealt with many of those rebellious people..." That's the kind of graceful my wife is. I think my wife is understanding the consequences now...it's hard to watch her going through such a rough time.

[matt8204]

2 hours ago, BuffaloWeather said:

My friend is a nurse practitioner in buffalo and everyone of his covid patients are unvaxxed.

I was nervous about getting the vaccine but even more nervous about getting Covid.  Pardon my French but this thing is a b--ch.  If it's going to get me, I want to say that I did everything in my power to prevent it.

[matt8204]

29 minutes ago, TugHillMatt said:

 

 

Hey, guys! Thanks for checking in. I appreciate it. She ended up getting a breathing treatment and a prescribed inhaler. She has had a consistent low-grade fever since last Monday. Still miserable. She's trying to get up and do the hourly walk/deep breathing and then she has to sit down because she gets light-headed and dizzy.

I am so saddened for her. It looks like I got the 2nd Vax JUST in time and I think it's done it's job protecting me (even though I'm not technically "fully" vaxxed - 2 weeks- until this Friday.

I was PISSED when she told me how the doctor talked to her. My wife is such a lady of grace, so she didn't say anything...but the doctor told her "You chose this, and this is the consequence of not being vaxxed." Now, my wife is NOT one of those rebellious individuals. As you all know, we had some concerns..and she was about to do it. The doctor was horrible to her and wasn't even going to help her. Walked out the door and said, "maybe you'll get an inhaler." The nurses must have talked with her because they did end up doing the breathing treatment (the nurses were super kind.)

I DON'T CARE what choice an individual makes...you don't punish them for that choice when it's potentially a matter of life and death. Yes, there are natural consequences, but this shaming process TICKED me off. Lucky I couldn't go in there with her....

My wife said, "She was an overstressed doctor during a pandemic..and she's probably dealt with many of those rebellious people..." That's the kind of graceful my wife is. I think my wife is understanding the consequences now...it's hard to watch her going through such a rough time.

Doesn't it go against the oath that the doctor took to say that he/she won't help her?  Sounds like a pretty horrible bedside manner to have, especially when someone is so sick.  What good is a mean-spirited lecture going to do at that point?  I'll say a prayer for your wife.  Hang in there.  

[TugHillMatt]

2 minutes ago, matt8204 said:

Doesn't it go against the oath that the doctor took to say that he/she won't help her?  Sounds like a pretty horrible bedside manner to have, especially when someone is so sick.  What good is a mean-spirited lecture going to do at that point?  I'll say a prayer for your wife.  Hang in there.  

Thanks. I thought the same thing. But it really doesn't surprise me. The Syracuse area has some of the meanest, rudest people of anywhere I've ever been/lived. Just another reason we will NOT be calling this area home for years and years.

[TugHillMatt]

20 minutes ago, TugHillMatt said:

Thanks. I thought the same thing. But it really doesn't surprise me. The Syracuse area has some of the meanest, rudest people of anywhere I've ever been/lived. Just another reason we will NOT be calling this area home for years and years.

Oh, I forgot to mention... the "PA" at my doctor's office did the same exact thing to me this summer when I told him why I was hesitant about the vaccine. The people around here are just harsh and spout whatever the crap they want out of their mouths.

[TugHillMatt]

On a side note...I've been spending some of my quarantine catching up on one of my favorite shows. I strongly recommend "The Man in the High Castle" series on Amazon Prime. It covers many different genres from Suspense to War to Romance to Dystopian Society (one of my favorites) to Sci Fi... So brilliantly and intelligently done!

[cny rider]

3 hours ago, matt8204 said:

Doesn't it go against the oath that the doctor took to say that he/she won't help her?  Sounds like a pretty horrible bedside manner to have, especially when someone is so sick.  What good is a mean-spirited lecture going to do at that point?  I'll say a prayer for your wife.  Hang in there.  

 

There's parts of the interaction that both parties could think about.

Mrs. Matt chose not to get a vaccine that is highly effective against hospitalization and death from Covid.

Now she is in the ER, and the nurses and Doctors there are literally risking their lives to take care of her, in a situation that very likely would not have happened if she had been vaccinated.

Yes, they have been vaccinated, but the vaccine isn't perfect.

Having done this for almost 2 years now, the frustration level is getting really high for some people in health care when confronted with patients who refuse to take the vaccine but expect others to continue risking their lives to provide care.

Almost everyone in health care knows colleagues who have died from this virus.

I'm not defending grumpiness or a poor bedside manner but people in health care are frustrated, exhausted and demoralized.

 

 

 

[Buckeyes_Suck]

1 hour ago, cny rider said:

 

There's parts of the interaction that both parties could think about.

Mrs. Matt chose not to get a vaccine that is highly effective against hospitalization and death from Covid.

Now she is in the ER, and the nurses and Doctors there are literally risking their lives to take care of her, in a situation that very likely would not have happened if she had been vaccinated.

Yes, they have been vaccinated, but the vaccine isn't perfect.

Having done this for almost 2 years now, the frustration level is getting really high for some people in health care when confronted with patients who refuse to take the vaccine but expect others to continue risking their lives to provide care.

Almost everyone in health care knows colleagues who have died from this virus.

I'm not defending grumpiness or a poor bedside manner but people in health care are frustrated, exhausted and demoralized.

 

 

 

I wish more doctors took this approach when talking to their morbidly obese patients instead of prescribing cholesterol and blood pressure meds. 
 

I still think vax needs to be a choice. Just the way it’s a choice to allow someone to eat themselves to death or become an alcoholic or etc. Heart disease and obesity kill more people but we can’t politicize that. 

[TugHillMatt]

3 hours ago, cny rider said:

 

There's parts of the interaction that both parties could think about.

Mrs. Matt chose not to get a vaccine that is highly effective against hospitalization and death from Covid.

Now she is in the ER, and the nurses and Doctors there are literally risking their lives to take care of her, in a situation that very likely would not have happened if she had been vaccinated.

Yes, they have been vaccinated, but the vaccine isn't perfect.

Having done this for almost 2 years now, the frustration level is getting really high for some people in health care when confronted with patients who refuse to take the vaccine but expect others to continue risking their lives to provide care.

Almost everyone in health care knows colleagues who have died from this virus.

I'm not defending grumpiness or a poor bedside manner but people in health care are frustrated, exhausted and demoralized.

 

 

 

I don't think your judgment is necessarily fair. I, and my wife, were waiting until it actually got "approved." I've explained my reasonings here. I won't beat that horse...other than I think it was a wise and intellectual decision for myself...based on what knowledge we have. As we know, approval didn't happen until late August. Mrs. Matt   had reasons of her own for waiting. Regardless, she didn't deserve to be treated the way she did. People who choose to smoke...do they get berated by ER doctors? They "chose" that for themselves as well..emphysema, lung cancer etc... (Side note - this is not referencing Covid patients put others at risk-)

 

[cny rider]

9 hours ago, Luke_Mages said:

I wish more doctors took this approach when talking to their morbidly obese patients instead of prescribing cholesterol and blood pressure meds. 
 

I still think vax needs to be a choice. Just the way it’s a choice to allow someone to eat themselves to death or become an alcoholic or etc. Heart disease and obesity kill more people but we can’t politicize that. 

Talking to your obese patients, and prescribing cholesterol and hypertension meds are not mutually exclusive actions.

The big difference being of course that none of my smoker lung cancer patients have something transmissible that can kill me or my family members.

If people get vaccinated they are much less likely to need to come expose health care providers to a deadly virus.

The exodus of workers out of health care has just begun.

 

 

[Buckeyes_Suck]

2 hours ago, cny rider said:

The big difference being of course that none of my smoker lung cancer patients have something transmissible that can kill me or my family members.

This is making my point. If you don't want get Covid/seriously ill then you get vaccinated. Just the same that if you don't want lung cancer then you don't smoke. Or if you don't want to be morbidly obese then you cycle.

I'm not an anti vaxxer,  just pro liberty and choice. (I'm vaxed and had covid)

2 hours ago, cny rider said:

The exodus of workers out of health care has just begun.

NYS is helping that right along, almost 2k workers being fired because of not being vaxed in the middle of a pandemic. If anything its the feeling of being unappreciated that is driving this, not the fear of being exposed to covid. Most probably have been. My wife hasn't lost any of her team members because of covid but she will lose some if the religious exemption doesn't become permanent.

[TugHillMatt]

2 hours ago, cny rider said:

Talking to your obese patients, and prescribing cholesterol and hypertension meds are not mutually exclusive actions.

The big difference being of course that none of my smoker lung cancer patients have something transmissible that can kill me or my family members.

If people get vaccinated they are much less likely to need to come expose health care providers to a deadly virus.

The exodus of workers out of health care has just begun.

 

 

Are you a doctor, or are you just writing from the perspective of what a doctor might be thinking?

[BuffaloWeather]

There is a lot of self induced issues that medical professionals have to deal with. People choose to do drugs, alcohol, eat badly, sedimentary lifestyle, do stupid things and go to the hospital and expect to get help. I don't see this as any different and a medical professional should not treat your wife this way. Its their job to take care of you, they get good money to do so. 

[cny rider]

58 minutes ago, BuffaloWeather said:

There is a lot of self induced issues that medical professionals have to deal with. People choose to do drugs, alcohol, eat badly, sedimentary lifestyle, do stupid things and go to the hospital and expect to get help. I don't see this as any different and a medical professional should not treat your wife this way. Its their job to take care of you, they get good money to do so. 

We are not mindless automatons.

There is a huge difference between the unvaccinated Covid patient and all those others:  The person who chose not to get Covid vaccine, then got Covid and came to the hospital is putting my life and many others at risk with their decision.

If I decide that driving on the left side of the road is better for me, should I be able go out in my car this afternoon and do that? Do the negative consequences for everyone else matter?

Should I ever be able to see my elderly parents for Thanksgiving again without worrying about bringing Covid to their house after taking care of the unvaccinated?

Society's needs have to come into play, and be balanced with the individual.

Is it OK for someone skip a $30 Covid vaccination and then get Regeneron antibodies for thousands of dollars at taxpayer expense?

Is it OK for the unvaccinated to make it more likely that children get shut out of school by ongoing surges in infections?  How about the effect it has on the economy?

What obligation do we all have to those with blood cancers, and organ transplants, who can't mount an effective immune response to the vaccine and remain at high risk?

We protect them when we get vaccinated and wear masks in high risk situations.

All things to think about.

 

 

[Buckeyes_Suck]

33 minutes ago, cny rider said:

We are not mindless automatons.

There is a huge difference between the unvaccinated Covid patient and all those others:  The person who chose not to get Covid vaccine, then got Covid and came to the hospital is putting my life and many others at risk with their decision.

If I decide that driving on the left side of the road is better for me, should I be able go out in my car this afternoon and do that? Do the negative consequences for everyone else matter?

Should I ever be able to see my elderly parents for Thanksgiving again without worrying about bringing Covid to their house after taking care of the unvaccinated?

Society's needs have to come into play, and be balanced with the individual.

Is it OK for someone skip a $30 Covid vaccination and then get Regeneron antibodies for thousands of dollars at taxpayer expense?

Is it OK for the unvaccinated to make it more likely that children get shut out of school by ongoing surges in infections?  How about the effect it has on the economy?

What obligation do we all have to those with blood cancers, and organ transplants, who can't mount an effective immune response to the vaccine and remain at high risk?

We protect them when we get vaccinated and wear masks in high risk situations.

All things to think about.

 

 

I don't completely disagree with your points but would argue that police and fire put there lives in far more danger for less compensation. 

It's a slippery slope to demand that everyone do something for the "greater good", especially when were talking about something with a 99.8% survival rate.

[vortmax]

 

47 minutes ago, cny rider said:

There is a huge difference between the unvaccinated Covid patient and all those others:  The person who chose not to get Covid vaccine, then got Covid and came to the hospital is putting my life and many others at risk with their decision.

2nd hand smoke kills 35,000/yr in the US alone, and has been killing and hurting innocent people for centuries. The World Health Organization estimates that the 1 billion individuals who smoke worldwide contribute to the 880,000 secondhand smoke (SHS)–related deaths among individuals who do not smoke each year. There certainly ARE similarities.

Edit: Just found this on the WHO website: 

Tobacco kills up to half of its users.
Tobacco kills more than 8 million people each year. More than 7 million of those deaths are the result of direct tobacco use while around 1.2 million are the result of non-smokers being exposed to second-hand smoke.

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/tobacco

Let's not be so quick to judge.

[cny rider]

37 minutes ago, Luke_Mages said:

I don't completely disagree with your points but would argue that police and fire put there lives in far more danger for less compensation. 

It's a slippery slope to demand that everyone do something for the "greater good", especially when were talking about something with a 99.8% survival rate.

The survival rate does not nearly capture the impact of this virus on our society.

I am not demanding people do anything, but suggesting they should face the consequences of their decisions.

Start with higher insurance premiums, to cover their higher Covid related costs.

Continue to require evidence of vaccine or immunity to go to a concert or a Bills game, or to get on an airplane.

Stop interfering with private business decisions. Allow employers to mandate vaccination or face job loss, without vaccination.

 

 

[TugHillMatt]

I just went and got tested...results are negative. So, thinking my immune system and the vaccine did their job. I guess there's still time for me develop it. I've been trying to research and haven't found the right resources: Does the vaccine reduce viral load in that you could still have the virus but not display as "positive?" is there a way of predicting whether I am still at risk or not? Or is that mostly what an antibody test might help with?

[cny rider]

37 minutes ago, vortmax said:

 

2nd hand smoke kills 35,000/yr in the US alone, and has been killing and hurting innocent people for centuries. The World Health Organization estimates that the 1 billion individuals who smoke worldwide contribute to the 880,000 secondhand smoke (SHS)–related deaths among individuals who do not smoke each year. There certainly ARE similarities.

Edit: Just found this on the WHO website: 

Tobacco kills up to half of its users.
Tobacco kills more than 8 million people each year. More than 7 million of those deaths are the result of direct tobacco use while around 1.2 million are the result of non-smokers being exposed to second-hand smoke.

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/tobacco

Let's not be so quick to judge.

That's an interesting point....but what does it have to do with judging?

What do you propose we do about that?

 

[cny rider]

Just now, TugHillMatt said:

I just went and got tested...results are negative. So, thinking my immune system and the vaccine did their job. I guess there's still time for me develop it. I've been trying to research and haven't found the right resources: Does the vaccine reduce viral load in that you could still have the virus but not display as "positive?" is there a way of predicting whether I am still at risk or not? Or is that mostly what an antibody test might help with?

If you have it, even post vaccine you should test positive.

The tests are highly sensitive, and even reduced viral load will yield a positive.

[TugHillMatt]

1 minute ago, cny rider said:

If you have it, even post vaccine you should test positive.

The tests are highly sensitive, and even reduced viral load will yield a positive.

It just confuses how I couldn't possibly have gotten it from my wife considering we shared the same space for days before she showed symptoms. So, could I have had it last week, and my immune system took care of it..yielding the negative result?

[vortmax]

1 hour ago, cny rider said:

That's an interesting point....but what does it have to do with judging?

What do you propose we do about that?

 

The judging is in this comment: "There is a huge difference between the unvaccinated Covid patient and all those others:  The person who chose not to get Covid vaccine, then got Covid and came to the hospital is putting my life and many others at risk with their decision." ---> It's not much different than the person who 'chooses' to smoke and contribute to an even more deadly SHS global issue that takes, according to WHO, 1.2M lives/year.

I'm not certain how to combat SHS globally, but in the meantime we can't be treating unvaxxed people differently than smokers - like Tug's wife was. It's just wrong and unjustified.

[DeltaT13]

32 minutes ago, TugHillMatt said:

It just confuses how I couldn't possibly have gotten it from my wife considering we shared the same space for days before she showed symptoms. So, could I have had it last week, and my immune system took care of it..yielding the negative result?

Covid is a fickle virus. I have heard similar stories many times now. It’s likely your body, immune system, blood type, etc simply handled the virus before it could get a stronghold. This should give you reasonable confidence going forward that Covid isn’t a concern for you.  Congrats! 

[wolfie09]

Did you guys see the new study from the university of Michigan? That 1 beef hotdog or bacon, sausage, processed food takes an estimated 36 minutes off your life..I read an article that quoted the WHO, which compared it to smoking a pack of cigarettes..I love Nathan's beef hot dogs too lol Surprised Joey Chestnut is still kicking..

 

while a beef hot dog on a bun resulted in some 36 minutes lost “largely due to the detrimental effect of processed meat..

[Buckeyes_Suck]

45 minutes ago, cny rider said:

The survival rate does not nearly capture the impact of this virus on our society.

Agree, but I think the bigger impact than health and death is the fear mongering and looming economic disaster we're creating. Look what's happening to inflation, the automotive markets, the housing markets. Its the 2000's but on a global scale.

45 minutes ago, cny rider said:

Start with higher insurance premiums, to cover their higher Covid related costs.

Continue to require evidence of vaccine or immunity to go to a concert or a Bills game, or to get on an airplane.

Stop interfering with private business decisions. Allow employers to mandate vaccination or face job loss, without vaccination.

Completely agree with all of this, as long as its not the government mandating. On the first point the I've long been an advocate of this. The problem is that most people have employer paid healthcare so it makes it difficult to charge the individual more. 

[Buckeyes_Suck]

2 minutes ago, wolfie09 said:

Did you guys see the new study from the university of Michigan? That 1 beef hotdog or bacon, sausage, processed food takes an estimated 36 minutes off your life..I read an article that quoted the WHO, which compared it to smoking a pack of cigarettes..I love Nathan's beef hot dogs too lol Surprised Joey Chestnut is still kicking..

 

while a beef hot dog on a bun resulted in some 36 minutes lost “largely due to the detrimental effect of processed meat..

That's complete crap. Probably paid for by big sugar to draw attention away from the fact that are the largest cause of obesity and diabetes in this country. Look at how the lobbyied in the 70s to keep Stevia out of the country.

[TugHillMatt]

13 minutes ago, DeltaT13 said:

Covid is a fickle virus. I have heard similar stories many times now. It’s likely your body, immune system, blood type, etc simply handled the virus before it could get a stronghold. This should give you reasonable confidence going forward that Covid isn’t a concern for you.  Congrats! 

Thanks for this encouraging news and info. I have O negative blood, which I gathered does a good job at fighting and prohibiting this virus.

[cny rider]

53 minutes ago, TugHillMatt said:

It just confuses how I couldn't possibly have gotten it from my wife considering we shared the same space for days before she showed symptoms. So, could I have had it last week, and my immune system took care of it..yielding the negative result?

It's not just the virus, the host has a large part to do with it.

Some people have Covid and even when asymptomatic shed massive quantities of virus, thereby infecting others around them.

Others shed very little virus.

Your wife is probably in the latter category.

[TugHillMatt]

1 minute ago, cny rider said:

It's not just the virus, the host has a large part to do with it.

Some people have Covid and even when asymptomatic shed massive quantities of virus, thereby infecting others around them.

Others shed very little virus.

Your wife is probably in the latter category.

Oh, yes. That is why this is such a crazy, confusing virus...so inconsistent.

I'm so glad this is one thing my wife does not seem to be sharing with me...  

[cny rider]

41 minutes ago, vortmax said:

The judging is in this comment: "There is a huge difference between the unvaccinated Covid patient and all those others:  The person who chose not to get Covid vaccine, then got Covid and came to the hospital is putting my life and many others at risk with their decision." ---> It's not much different than the even more deadly SHS global issue that takes, according to WHO, 1.2M lives/year.

I'm not certain how to combat SHS globally, but in the meantime we can't be treating unvaxxed people differently than smokers - like Tug's wife was. It's just wrong and unjustified.

Honest question:  Have you ever walked into a room knowing that there was something in the room that could kill you, or the members of your family if you brought it home?

Like if you got overheated in your mask/shield/gown/gloves etc. and had a momentary lapse of judgement and wiped the sweat that was dripping down into your eyes?  Or didn't have a perfectly tight seal on your mask that you had worn for multiple days because there weren't any others, even though it was meant to be used for one day and discarded?

It was a new experience for me, for sure, around Christmas of last year.

It can make you look at things in a new light.