Buckeyes_Suck Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, BuffaloWeather said: When the republicans realize trickle down economics doesn’t work is when they will have finally got it right. Was working better than anything else in the last 70 years up until Corona. And had the economy not been at the strongest its been we would be in a much darker place. @champy why dont you respond to the people calling you a complete jackass for calling anyone who supports Trump a racist baby raping nazi? And thanks for posting a tax policy change we discussed here two days ago.Welcome to the party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWeather Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 11 minutes ago, Luke_Mages said: Was working better than anything else in the last 70 years up until Corona. And had the economy not been at the strongest its been we would be in a much darker place. @champy why dont you respond to the people calling you a complete jackass for calling anyone who supports Trump a racist baby raping nazi? And thanks for posting a tax policy change we discussed here two days ago.Welcome to the party. It was doing well, but history shows it does better under a democratic regime. Stats don't lie my friend. =) These stats also don't include the virus, but I wouldn't include it in this dataset anyways. https://www.thebalance.com/democrats-vs-republicans-which-is-better-for-the-economy-4771839 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleetussnow Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 1 hour ago, rochesterdave said: You are delusional. Did you even bother with the Mueller report? And yet your take is that Clinton is guilty? Lol Followed it carefully. I only state facts above so judge Clinton actions for yourself. However, I don’t find Clinton’s actions defensible. Nor do I find mueller or comey defendable. I’m not defending trumps actions only because I can find no actions to speak of and neither can mueller. Mueller report didn’t even result in a vote in Congress from people who want to kill him. Stop it. And Congress was wrong. Adam Schiff lied. He said he had indisputable evidence trump and Russia colluded. So did the former director of the CIA (who recanted his statements. Publicly!) Schiff said trump was an agent of Russia, and tried to destroy democracy, categorically and in the public record of the House of Representatives. Of course, this all before the mueller came out and you haven’t heard from schiff since. The reason is, he lied, produced no evidence, and now has no credibility. The press wants to kill trump and they even gave up on it. Charade over. Both Schiff and former cia Director Brennan said trump was a liar. Mueller didn’t. You say trump lied to you..fine. But let’s not be selective based on your book of business. All of us were lied to for 2 years and in this case, it wasn’t by trump. Now, maybe the people investigating trump and Clinton and everyone else were incompetent. Plausible, federal investigator Durham has been working on this for a year. At best they were incompetent. At worst, corrupt. Read the horowitz report. The FBI got scolded hard. The judges who signed the FBI FISA warrants took away those agents privileges to come to the FISA court again. Why? They lied to the judges. Durham will tell us why they lied. And the FBI hasn’t fixed their policies even today per the judges order. Looking 360 degrees is best before you call someone delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJO812 Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 Numbers in NY are holding steady or slightly dropping which is good. Bad news is that there are still a lot of positive cases and deaths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeyes_Suck Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 18 minutes ago, BuffaloWeather said: It was doing well, but history shows it does better under a democratic regime. Stats don't lie my friend. =) These stats also don't include the virus, but I wouldn't include it in this dataset anyways. https://www.thebalance.com/democrats-vs-republicans-which-is-better-for-the-economy-4771839 I think I'm too personally tied to what I've seen at my employers under both democratic and republican presidents to change my views at this time. That article does have some good data but I have a hard time taking all the data at face value when data is twisted. For example the article stated that 50% of startups worth over $1B were started by immigrants. When I fact checked the source the actual quote was "Furthermore, a 2016 study found that more than half of U.S. startups valued at $1 billion or more that have yet to go public — the so-called unicorns with potential for high growth and job creation — have at least one immigrant co-founder. (MGI, 2016)." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWeather Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 10 minutes ago, Luke_Mages said: I think I'm too personally tied to what I've seen at my employers under both democratic and republican presidents to change my views at this time. That article does have some good data but I have a hard time taking all the data at face value when data is twisted. For example the article stated that 50% of startups worth over $1B were started by immigrants. When I fact checked the source the actual quote was "Furthermore, a 2016 study found that more than half of U.S. startups valued at $1 billion or more that have yet to go public — the so-called unicorns with potential for high growth and job creation — have at least one immigrant co-founder. (MGI, 2016)." The bolded still validates the point though, they have at least one immigrant co-founder. Most businesses are founded as LLC, S corps, or partnerships. You don't see a billion dollar sole prop. So the point stands. Throughout history democratic regimes lead to a better market. It states, "Another way to look at it to consider what the president had to deal with during his term. A president will have better growth if he had no recession. That's one reason why the Democrats did slightly better. Presidents Johnson, Jimmy Carter, and Clinton didn't have recessions. The only Republican president who can say that is Trump. All other presidents had to contend with the worst recessions in U.S. history." Obama inherited one of the worst financial disaster in history and did a fantastic job recovering. Bush is to blame for the 2000s lending disaster. If you worked in finance/banking you knew what freedom to businesses did with relaxed underwriting methods in the 2000s would come back to haunt them. Banks were giving out 500k mortgages to people making 50k a year. I understand giving businesses freedom, but sometimes they take advantage of those for their own personal benefit. Personally trumps tax cuts have saved me thousands a year. If I get health insurance through my employer, I'm fine with Trump. But I went through many difficult times in my life in which I needed help and it wasn't there. I have to think about others going through those times. I'm so sick of the 1% seeing exponential growth income all the while the middle and poor class are becoming poorer and poorer with each passing year. Trump keeps passing laws to help the rich get richer. It needs to end, even if it doesn't help me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeyes_Suck Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 Just now, BuffaloWeather said: Bush is to blame for the 2000s lending disaster. If you worked in finance/banking you knew what freedom to businesses did with relaxed underwriting methods in the 2000s would come back to haunt them. Banks were giving out 500k mortgages to people making 50k a year. I always thought this started with Clinton... https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/hillary-and-bill-cause-of-housing-financial-crisis/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWeather Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, Luke_Mages said: I always thought this started with Clinton... https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/hillary-and-bill-cause-of-housing-financial-crisis/ I take that back. It wasn't Bush or Clinton it was the banks that were to blame. Lending standards have changed for the better. Underwriting is very detailed and extensive. However, a year ago I heard of online lenders giving money out to people based on credit scores and very little to no income validation. https://publicintegrity.org/inequality-poverty-opportunity/the-roots-of-the-financial-crisis-who-is-to-blame/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeyes_Suck Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 Thats crazy. Speaking of popping bubbles...anyone else think the student loan bubble pops in the next year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TugHillMatt Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 1 hour ago, champy said: Remember that "wonderful" tax law jammed through a couple of years ago? https://www.forbes.com/sites/shaharziv/2020/04/14/why-are-rich-americans-getting-17-million-stimulus-checks/#120d5a9665b4 “For those earning $1 million annually, a tax break buried in the recent coronavirus relief legislation is so generous that its total cost is more than total new funding for all hospitals in America and more than the total provided to all state and local governments,” said Doggett. “Someone wrongly seized on this health emergency to reward ultrarich beneficiaries, likely including the Trump family, with a tax loophole not available to middle class families. This net operating loss loophole is a loser that should be repealed.” Trump and his entire family (and basically the entire GOP, especially the sh*tbags in the Senate) are criminals. You Trump supporters are dumb sheep. In fact, Trump's behavior reminds me a lot of Congel when he was building Destiny USA...not to mention how he used to refuse to pay contractors after the work was done. But yes - lets blame immigrants, people on welfare, the Chinese, the deep state, Hillary and Obama. While we have crisis after crisis, the real issue is these criminals in the GOP keep sneaking in these tax windfalls for the ultra rich, weakening the government response apparatus, and hollowing out 40 years of environmental laws for our air and water. Shouldn't surprise me when all his supporters watch Fox "news" 24 hours a day Dude, it's politics. Democrats are FAR from innocent. Get off your "Dems are amazing" kick and recognize most of them are just as crooked. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TugHillMatt Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 1 hour ago, MJO812 said: Really ? The cases are way less up tbere. It all depends on whether cases rise quickly here. The only way I see that happening is AFTER we open back up again. Really, I think Upstate is at a point where exposure and "herd mentality" is our next step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleetussnow Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 11 minutes ago, Luke_Mages said: I always thought this started with Clinton... https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/hillary-and-bill-cause-of-housing-financial-crisis/ Bush said in 2000 that the mortgage market was in great peril and the GSE’s needed reform. It is the most prescient thing he ever said. I joked he should gave got the Nobel prize in economics for that. Most winners aren’t that prescient. the problems arose when then Clinton appointee to Fannie Mae Franklin Raines started subprime lending, which was outside their charter and put taxpayers at risk. GSE cop Armando Falcone went after them in 1999, but the administration did nothing. The problem spiraled and mortgage lending became a haven for fraud. Bush tried to stop it categorically. He was thwarted by Congress many times. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleetussnow Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 9 minutes ago, Luke_Mages said: Thats crazy. Speaking of popping bubbles...anyone else think the student loan bubble pops in the next year? It’s exploding already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleetussnow Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 12 minutes ago, BuffaloWeather said: I take that back. It wasn't Bush or Clinton it was the banks that were to blame. Lending standards have changed for the better. Underwriting is very detailed and extensive. However, a year ago I heard of online lenders giving money out to people based on credit scores and very little to no income validation. https://publicintegrity.org/inequality-poverty-opportunity/the-roots-of-the-financial-crisis-who-is-to-blame/ Fannie started it. See my post. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeyes_Suck Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 Just now, cleetussnow said: It’s exploding already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaT13 Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Luke_Mages said: Was working better than anything else in the last 70 years up until Corona. And had the economy not been at the strongest its been we would be in a much darker place. @champy why dont you respond to the people calling you a complete jackass for calling anyone who supports Trump a racist baby raping nazi? And thanks for posting a tax policy change we discussed here two days ago.Welcome to the party. Obama’s policies were working pretty well and then trump came along and undid it all with massive tax cuts at a time when we were finally bringing down the deficit. Tax cuts during a fairly strong economic period is just plain stupid. It was a massive mistake and will have grave consequences over the next decade. The deficit was exploding (post tax cuts) before this pandemic, I have to imagine we will see a single year deficit of nearly 2-3 trillion dollars in 2021. Certainly not surprised with one of the worst businessman in history at the helm. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWeather Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, DeltaT13 said: Obama’s policies were working pretty well and then trump came along and undid it all with massive tax cuts at a time when we were finally bringing down the deficit. Tax cuts during a fairly strong economic period is just plain stupid. It was a massive mistake and will have grave consequences over the next decade. The deficit was exploding (post tax cuts) before this pandemic, I have to imagine we will see a single year deficit of nearly 3-4 trillion dollars in 2021. Certainly not surprised with one of the worst businessman in history at the helm. I mean he just made Vince Mcmahon as an adviser in bringing back the economy. The same guy who just bankrupt the XFL. Come on now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJO812 Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 I just came back from a Deli/ catering place. There was about 20 people in there. The manager had to stop letting people in. I also noticed more traffic today than usual. I guess people are starting to not care and go outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJO812 Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 Sounds like Cuomo isn't going to open up the state anytime soon until the Federal govemrnet helps and send more tests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WNash Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 I’ve seen here that some people claim we can’t stabilize wages for the unemployed because of inflation, but a causal relationship between nominal wages and consumer prices is being proven false. We are seeing a significant decline in nominal wages, yet there is no *deflation*, which makes it pretty clear that *inflation* is caused by something other than an increase in nominal wages. I know that won’t make the “higher nominal median wage causes inflation” canard disappear, but at least we can now recognize that when someone brings it up, they’re not basing it on macroeconomics but on their political preferences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJO812 Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 Wow Cuomo just lashed out at Trump. He basically wants millions of tests in order to open back up the state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeyes_Suck Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 18 minutes ago, WNash said: I’ve seen here that some people claim we can’t stabilize wages for the unemployed because of inflation, but a causal relationship between nominal wages and consumer prices is being proven false. We are seeing a significant decline in nominal wages, yet there is no *deflation*, which makes it pretty clear that *inflation* is caused by something other than an increase in nominal wages. I know that won’t make the “higher nominal median wage causes inflation” canard disappear, but at least we can now recognize that when someone brings it up, they’re not basing it on macroeconomics but on their political preferences. Gas prices have fallen of the face of the earth because of reduced demand. Also right now would probably be a good time to buy a house or car as demand for those has also fallen flat. Day to day food and care commodities are still being bought at record pace due to panic so you cant use that pricing as an example. You're not the one who claimed that scarcity isn't real, were you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WNash Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 13 minutes ago, Luke_Mages said: Gas prices have fallen of the face of the earth because of reduced demand. Also right now would probably be a good time to buy a house or car as demand for those has also fallen flat. Day to day food and care commodities are still being bought at record pace due to panic so you cant use that pricing as an example. You're not the one who claimed that scarcity isn't real, were you? I usually have you on ignore, but I figured you were responding to my comment, so I am briefly unhiding your post. You are conflating the principle of supply and demand, which is *an* input — not the only input— on pricing of objects of commerce with the effect of nominal wage change on real prices. Your claim is a political one, not an economic one. EDIT: I didn’t say anything about scarcity here, but I think the choice to base an economy on conditions of scarcity is a pretty stupid model to use, even if it does allow a relatively small and powerful elite to enrich themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeyes_Suck Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 10 minutes ago, WNash said: I usually have you on ignore, but I figured you were responding to my comment, so I am briefly unhiding your post. You are conflating the principle of supply and demand, which is *an* input — not the only input— on pricing of objects of commerce with the effect of nominal wage change on real prices. Your claim is a political one, not an economic one. EDIT: I didn’t say anything about scarcity here, but I think the choice to base an economy on conditions of scarcity is a pretty stupid model to use, even if it does allow a relatively small and powerful elite to enrich themselves. False. Edit: If you cant see the tie wages has to supply and demand then there is no helping you, please keep me on ignore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleetussnow Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 1 hour ago, DeltaT13 said: Obama’s policies were working pretty well and then trump came along and undid it all with massive tax cuts at a time when we were finally bringing down the deficit. Tax cuts during a fairly strong economic period is just plain stupid. It was a massive mistake and will have grave consequences over the next decade. The deficit was exploding (post tax cuts) before this pandemic, I have to imagine we will see a single year deficit of nearly 2-3 trillion dollars in 2021. Certainly not surprised with one of the worst businessman in history at the helm. We have record tax hauls in 2 of the last 3 years. We don’t have a revenue problem. We have a spending problem. And OMG trump is as guilty as the next person! I think we can get behind that. The Starbucks CEO...that was his platform, before he bailed on running. He had my vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleetussnow Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 1 hour ago, cleetussnow said: Fannie started it. See my post. Well, everyone gets some of the blame...rating agencies, originators, banks. Fannie broke the rules...ok fine. But what followed was rampant fraud by guilty parties. Borrowers who lied about income and work committed fraud too! Fubar Wall Street incentives fueled the inferno. So investment banks and other banks own some of this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie09 Posted April 17, 2020 Author Share Posted April 17, 2020 According to the governor infection rate is down below 1.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWeather Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 The CPI index goes up and up all the while salaries are stagnant. You cannot use oil as that is tied to futures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaT13 Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, cleetussnow said: We have record tax hauls in 2 of the last 3 years. We don’t have a revenue problem. We have a spending problem. And OMG trump is as guilty as the next person! I think we can get behind that. The Starbucks CEO...that was his platform, before he bailed on running. He had my vote. This graph just bums me out though. There was a really nice Trend going into 2016. How do you take a supposed red hot economy and turn into massive losses year after year? National Deficit in Billions of Dollars (I purposely found a super simple low tech graph so there is no political caption or spin.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWeather Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 DOW back to around 24k...makes no sense. Should be sub 20k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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