Coronavirus

[Jonger]

Here's the story.

Not a big town, so this kind of thing blew up. There are more updates, but this is part of it.

https://www.livingstondaily.com/story/news/local/community/howell/2020/06/09/adam-merkel-restaurants-sues-4-former-employees-defamation/5325392002/

I think he f-vked up with the lawsuits fwiw. There's no chance of getting a dime out of these women, so that's another story.

[Stebo]

Just now, Jonger said:

We do have too many restaurants, that's a fact. I read an article about that years ago. Europe has way less establishments for each person on average. They called it a bubble that's going to pop. Those who survive this will come out way ahead of the game.

Too many restaurants and too many bars. There just doesn't need to have bar on every corner.

 

3 minutes ago, Jonger said:

They settled on $600 factoring in higher cost of living states, so this isn't going to be an issue in NYC or LA... but Michigan and other middle tier states are getting boned by employees not wanting to take a pay cut to return to work.

I mean... sh1t, I get it.... but it's irresponsible of the employee and they'll feel the pain when restrictions are lifted, the $600 ends and there is a mad dash for jobs. Think musical chairs, but with several million people being left without a chair when the music stops.

I don't think it will be that bad, there has already been a lot who have gone back to work.

[Stebo]

3 minutes ago, Jonger said:

Here's the story.

Not a big town, so this kind of thing blew up. There are more updates, but this is part of it.

https://www.livingstondaily.com/story/news/local/community/howell/2020/06/09/adam-merkel-restaurants-sues-4-former-employees-defamation/5325392002/

The employees are right, they don't need an entire staff for to go only. That is pretty dumb by the employer. They could countersue for wrongful termination and probably win.

[Castaway]

My GF is going back to work tomorrow at the hospital. She showed no symptoms. After 10 days they’re allowed to go back to work not showing any symptoms. 
 

I feel ok too. So far. 
 

Tomorrow will be about 2 weeks in total.

[RyanDe680]

Time to get intimate 

[nwohweather]

What a dumpster fire of a thread. Haha dear Lord this squabbling is wild. Just come down here guys, you can go swim in the ocean, relax with some beers and enjoy the day 

[Hoosier]

20 minutes ago, RyanDe680 said:

Time to get intimate 

 

[Guest ovweather]

38 minutes ago, RyanDe680 said:

Time to get intimate 

I don’t think they stopped.

Covid sex is 

[Hoosier]

7 day average deaths have eclipsed 1000.  That is where we were at the end of May/start of June.  

It was inevitable that the deaths were going to rise after the cases exploded, but I was hoping we'd keep the weekly average under 1000/day.  Now you just hope it doesn't climb much higher. 

[NEOH]

12 hours ago, Stebo said:

Did he collect the money first? If so then he committed fraud.

I'm a business owner as well... but on the professional services side so I don't have much experience with the PPP loans. But my understanding is that you have to maintain the  same amount of employees to receive the money, not the same employees. If someone chooses not to go back to work after being offered their job back they doomed themselves. The industries most affected are obviously lower paying such as hospitality, restaurants etc. 

I saw your comment about people being underpaid as well. That's partly true.... especially for large corporations. It costs a tremendous amount of money to operate a small to mid size business which most employees don't have visibility to. My philosophy is if you want to make more money work harder... it always pays off. 

[Santa Clause]

Florida sets another death record fourth day in a row. 

[Santa Clause]

11 hours ago, Hoosier said:

7 day average deaths have eclipsed 1000.  That is where we were at the end of May/start of June.  

It was inevitable that the deaths were going to rise after the cases exploded, but I was hoping we'd keep the weekly average under 1000/day.  Now you just hope it doesn't climb much higher. 

I’m afraid it will, unlike then we don’t have a huge decline in new case numbers, just a plateau of 60 to 70 thousand new cases a day. Florida’s case numbers will be lower for awhile with testing sites shut down from threat of Hurricane.

[Malacka11]

Going in to the doctor today after a third night of low fever and malaise. I still don't think it's very likely to be Covid, but I woke up to texts from friends asking that I get tested, so I suppose the choice is sort of out of my hands by now anyway. 

Edit: Like every day so far of this "illness", I'm currently totally fine. I went to bed at like 2:30 with a temperature of 100.2F, which had dropped to 99.4F by about 3:30 (I couldn't fall asleep to save my life, because most of the time I work overnights now). Right now, I have absolutely no symptoms of anything at all. So it's anyone's guess if I start feeling bad again later. 

[Guest ovweather]

Fascinating article:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/30/health/t-cells-coronavirus-study-wellness/index.html

The T-cell cross-reactivity thing could explain why so many people are asymptomatic or have only mild cases. After all, most of us have already been exposed to other coronaviruses (common cold) in our lifetimes.

[Hoosier]

Indiana recently added something nice to the dashboard.  There is a breakdown of the number of unique individuals tested as well as the total number of tests each day so you get a sense of how many multiple tests have been done. 

[Guest ovweather]

1 hour ago, BuffaloWeather said:

Could be huge news if true

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/30/health/t-cells-coronavirus-study-wellness/index.html

I had posted the same link. I think it’s big news that I’m surprised isn’t getting more attention. The theory being many people may already have immunity to Covid from T-cell cross reactivity. I’m not sure immunity is the correct term, though, since a person can still contract / spread the virus. It’s just they are either asymptomatic or have just mild symptoms. As stated in the study, most people have been exposed to other coronaviruses already in their lifetimes. Even though Covid-19 is new, it still shares similar qualities with its family of other coronaviruses, thus those bodies previously infected with these other coronaviruses are better able to defend themselves against Covid-19.

[BuffaloWeather]

Just now, ovweather said:

I had posted the same link. I think it’s big news that I’m surprised isn’t getting more attention. The theory being many people may already have immunity to Covid from T-cell cross reactivity. I’m not sure immunity is the correct term, though, since a person can still contract / spread the virus. It’s just they are either asymptomatic or have just mild symptoms. As stated in the study, most people have been exposed to other coronaviruses already in their lifetimes. Even though Covid-19 is new, it still shares similar pathogens with its family of other coronaviruses thus those bodies previously infected with these other coronaviruses, are better able to defend themselves against Covid-19.

My bad, didn't see. I deleted it. It would explain quite a bit in how places are nearly fully open in hard hit states for 2 months without an increase in cases. One could conclude that it is making its way across the country. 

[Guest ovweather]

41 minutes ago, BuffaloWeather said:

My bad, didn't see. I deleted it. It would explain quite a bit in how places are nearly fully open in hard hit states for 2 months without an increase in cases. One could conclude that it is making its way across the country. 

Plus, researchers believe that in some high-population areas that have already been hit hard, that as many as 25 times as many people (who tested positive) may have already had the virus. Lots of asymptomatic and very mild case people haven't even been tested or had an antibody test (which are said not to be highly accurate).

Obviously the virus is still very serious and thus needs to continue be taken seriously. But the reality is many of those very sick and dying have a combination of things working against them. They are either weak and elderly, smokers, diabetic, obese, or a combination of these and other factors. I have to wonder if those "perfectly healthy" individuals who fell very sick with the virus don't have a genetic disposition of some kind to coronaviruses where it affects them more severely than others? Kind of like how some people are miserable with just a common cold while others feel very little. There are just so many variables at play, so until we understand them all, the best approach is still to social distance and wear a face mask.

[Inverted_Trough]

They're finding a significant number of asymptomatic people who nonetheless have lung damage on CT scans.  So it appears the virus might be damaging the body without causing overt symptoms

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/06/23/864536258/we-still-dont-fully-understand-the-label-asymptomatic

https://www.azfamily.com/news/continuing_coverage/coronavirus_coverage/new-arizona-concern-study-shows-asymptomatic-covid-patients-could-have-long-term-lung-damage/article_64903642-bb36-11ea-b48c-efd576ab9ba1.html

[Hoosier]

The places that were hammered in winter/spring generally took a slower approach with reopening.  Forget the bars, is indoor dining even open yet in NYC?  Or if it is, what's the percent capacity?

[Guest ovweather]

41 minutes ago, Inverted_Trough said:

They're finding a significant number of asymptomatic people who nonetheless have lung damage on CT scans.  So it appears the virus might be damaging the body without causing overt symptoms

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/06/23/864536258/we-still-dont-fully-understand-the-label-asymptomatic

https://www.azfamily.com/news/continuing_coverage/coronavirus_coverage/new-arizona-concern-study-shows-asymptomatic-covid-patients-could-have-long-term-lung-damage/article_64903642-bb36-11ea-b48c-efd576ab9ba1.html

I think this quote from the first article sums it up:

“Still, Taylor-Cousar cautions that researchers are studying the new coronavirus more intensively than they've studied other respiratory ailments. "Usually if someone is asymptomatic [with a common cold or flu virus], we would never even see them at all," she says, "and we would never think to get a CT scan on them." So there's no comparable data to say whether the lung abnormalities are specific to asymptomatic coronavirus carriers, or common among respiratory viruses.”

In other words, is lung inflammation / damage specific to asymptomatic Covid patients or a common side effect of many viruses?

[wisconsinwx]

2 hours ago, BuffaloWeather said:

My bad, didn't see. I deleted it. It would explain quite a bit in how places are nearly fully open in hard hit states for 2 months without an increase in cases. One could conclude that it is making its way across the country. 

I suppose it’s why southern states could be having a hard time.  I’d imagine colds and other Coronaviruses in general would be at least a tad more common in cold weather states (states like Arizona are probably pretty low in that regard due to warm, dry weather).

[Santa Clause]

47 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

The places that were hammered in winter/spring generally took a slower approach with reopening.  Forget the bars, is indoor dining even open yet in NYC?  Or if it is, what's the percent capacity?

Bingo. Main difference.

[BuffaloWeather]

1 hour ago, Hoosier said:

The places that were hammered in winter/spring generally took a slower approach with reopening.  Forget the bars, is indoor dining even open yet in NYC?  Or if it is, what's the percent capacity?

Everything has been opened for awhile here in New York. Indoor dining has been open with no spikes. I think it has to do with mask wearing here. It's extemely rare to see someone not use one. I went to a restaurant yesterday and it was so organized. 6 feet apart to order, everyone wearing a mask inside and outside. Even going for a walk along the water people were conscious to stay 6 feet apart walking by.

[Hoosier]

9 minutes ago, BuffaloWeather said:

Everything has been opened for awhile here in New York. Indoor dining has been open with no spikes. I think it has to do with mask wearing here. It's extemely rare to see someone not use one. I went to a restaurant yesterday and it was so organized. 6 feet apart to order, everyone wearing a mask inside and outside. Even going for a walk along the water people were conscious to stay 6 feet apart walking by.

What about New York City specifically?  I know they were not doing indoor dining as of 3 or 4 weeks ago but not sure if something changed.

Limited indoor dining seems like it can work.  The bigger problem comes when you increase the capacity toward 75-100% and of course the bars are ripe for spreading.

[Santa Clause]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/coronavirus/phil-murphy-coronavirus-new-jersey-alarm-2/2486869/%3famp

[Inverted_Trough]

1 hour ago, ovweather said:

In other words, is lung inflammation / damage specific to asymptomatic Covid patients or a common side effect of many viruses?

Not sure.  But lung damage is very uncommon in symptomatic cold and flu patients, unless it turns into a pneumonia.  

My main point was that it seems people conflate asymptomatic = benign.  I don't think that's necessarily the case.  What made HIV so scary back in the 1980s was that so many people were asymptomatic until they basically got full blown AIDS.  There are some cancers that are asymptomatic until you get to Stage 3 or Stage 4 -- that's what makes pancreatic cancer so deadly...by the time symptoms arise, you're often already at Stage 4.  To me, something that's damaging my body without causing symptoms, that's far more insidious.  I just think we have to be careful with how we interpret asymptomatic cases.  It's not clear whether all those cases are benign at this point.

[Guest ovweather]

2 hours ago, Inverted_Trough said:

Not sure.  But lung damage is very uncommon in symptomatic cold and flu patients, unless it turns into a pneumonia.  

My main point was that it seems people conflate asymptomatic = benign.  I don't think that's necessarily the case.  What made HIV so scary back in the 1980s was that so many people were asymptomatic until they basically got full blown AIDS.  There are some cancers that are asymptomatic until you get to Stage 3 or Stage 4 -- that's what makes pancreatic cancer so deadly...by the time symptoms arise, you're often already at Stage 4.  To me, something that's damaging my body without causing symptoms, that's far more insidious.  I just think we have to be careful with how we interpret asymptomatic cases.  It's not clear whether all those cases are benign at this point.

Also, how can doctors be sure a patient is asymptomatic or just not being completely honest about how they're feeling, maybe out of fear or denial? I know, a bit of irrational thinking, but being asymptomatic is only reliable for research if a person is being completely honest and not trying to hide symptoms out of fear.

It's also important to distinguish between lung inflammation and lung damage. I had a nasty case of bacterial pneumonia in both my lungs 16 years ago. The pneumonia led to pleurisy in both lungs. No doubt I had serious lung inflammation, but 4.5 months after the illness I was back to running long distances with no lung deterioration. In fact, other than some slight scarring from the pleurisy that caused very mild discomfort in my right lung for up to a few years, my lung (and heart) function was normal. When I think of lung damage, I think of smokers and those breathing in toxic amounts of chemicals or air pollutants regularly. We simply have no way of determining right now if Covid patients are suffering long term lung damage or if it's just short term inflammation. And if any damage is occurring along side preexisting lung issues from smoking to pollutants, etc. It will take years to research and understand any long term damage.

The bottom line again is playing it safe until we understand far better what Covid is doing, or if what we are seeing in asymptomatic people is common with other coronaviruses but just never researched as extensively as Covid-19 is being (as the articles you posted state).

[BuffaloWeather]

4 hours ago, Hoosier said:

What about New York City specifically?  I know they were not doing indoor dining as of 3 or 4 weeks ago but not sure if something changed.

Limited indoor dining seems like it can work.  The bigger problem comes when you increase the capacity toward 75-100% and of course the bars are ripe for spreading.

I believe NY is at 50% capacity as of 2 weeks ago. I'm not sure if we will see the full effects for a little bit of that. Gyms, movie theatres, concerts, and sporting events are still not happening. Everything else is going and bars and restaurants are packed outside. The real test is when the temperatures start cooling down in 1-2 months. I think we have a tough time here in winter if kids go back to school especially.

[Stebo]

19 minutes ago, ovweather said:

Also, how can doctors be sure a patient is asymptomatic or just not being completely honest about how they're feeling, maybe out of fear or denial? I know, a bit of irrational thinking, but being asymptomatic is only reliable for research if a person is being completely honest and not trying to hide symptoms out of fear.

It's also important to distinguish between lung inflammation and lung damage. I had a nasty case of bacterial pneumonia in both my lungs 16 years ago. The pneumonia led to pleurisy in both lungs. No doubt I had serious lung inflammation, but 4.5 months after the illness I was back to running long distances with no lung deterioration. In fact, other than some slight scarring from the pleurisy that caused very mild discomfort in my right lung for up to a few years, my lung (and heart) function was normal. When I think of lung damage, I think of smokers and those breathing in toxic amounts of chemicals or air pollutants regularly. We simply have no way of determining right now if Covid patients are suffering long term lung damage or if it's just short term inflammation. And if any damage is occurring along side preexisting lung issues from smoking to pollutants, etc. It will take years to research and understand any long term damage.

The bottom line again is playing it safe until we understand far better what Covid is doing, or if what we are seeing in asymptomatic people is common with other coronaviruses but just never researched as extensively as Covid-19 is being (as the articles you posted state).

I mean what symptoms can't be found through a simple examination for covid? Other than nausea most things can be visually seen or taken measurement.