Santa Clause Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 1529 deaths today on CovidTracking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 9 hours ago, Stebo said: Unemployment isn't permanent for one, and all that study proves is that the American worker is grossly underpaid. Umm.... if the businesses that led to their unemployment closed, it's baked in for years. And your other point is another topic all together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Just now, Jonger said: Umm.... if the businesses that led to their unemployment closed, it's baked in for years. And your other point is another topic all together. Then people move onto other job opportunities, people have mentioned in this thread that there are plenty of open jobs out there now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 11 hours ago, NEOH said: Many employers have contacted people asking them to come back but they decline since they are making more on unemployment than actually working. Despite high unemployment, there are a lot of job openings within certain industries. The jobs are slowly being filled with new hires, and those choosing to remain on unemployment will likely remain there as they won't have a job to go back to. We had a big local newstory about a similar situation. The guy owns several restaurants in the area.... he got PPP dollars and called everyone back to do takeout/etc... most of them claimed to be to scared to work. The real story was that they would be taking a paycut from unemployment and didn't want to work. From what I gather he fired them, which would have not affected their unemployment, but he was within his rights. So they started picketing his restaurants and trashing the guy. He couldn't get the PPP without them working, so at least one of the restaurants are closing permanently. Lazy young morons essentially didn't want to be hassled with working for this income. This area has seen a grand total of around 500 infections and 28 deaths. All deaths were in nursing homes, obese and averaged 85 years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Just now, Jonger said: We had a big local newstory about a similar situation. The guy owns several restaurants in the area.... he got PPP dollars and called everyone back to do takeout/etc... most of them claimed to be to scared to work. The real story was that they would be taking a paycut from unemployment and didn't want to work. From what I gather he fired them, which would have not affected their unemployment, but he was within his rights. So they started picketing his restaurants and trashing the guy. He couldn't get the PPP without them working, so at least one of the restaurants are closing permanently. Lazy young morons essentially didn't want to be hassled with working for this income. This area has seen a grand total of around 500 infections and 28 deaths. All deaths were in nursing homes, obese and averaged 85 years old. I find it quite ironic that you see no issue with the guy who took PPP money yet forced his workers back and then fired them when they didn't come back. You say this as a business owner as well. Also quit with this bullshit, the deaths were across the board in the state and in the metro area. Why you are freely allowed to post complete bullshit, I have no idea. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, Stebo said: I find it quite ironic that you see no issue with the guy who took PPP money yet forced his workers back and then fired them when they didn't come back. You say this as a business owner as well. Also quit with this bullshit, the deaths were across the board in the state and in the metro area. Why you are freely allowed to post complete bullshit, I have no idea. My county had 28 deaths. They were all in nursing homes with 1 exception and that death was removed from the tally. How is that bullshit? Why do you get worked up so easily? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 https://www.livingstondaily.com/story/news/local/community/livingston-county/2020/06/16/nursing-homes-account-all-but-1-livingstons-28-covid-19-deaths/3197937001/ Lies! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 PPP is only to employers who actually PAY employees. Paycheck protection program. Why is Stebo allowed to post bullshit here? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, Jonger said: My county had 28 deaths. They were all in nursing homes with 1 exception and that death was removed from the tally. How is that bullshit? Why do you get worked up so easily? Your county isn't the state and the virus wasn't just localized to your county. Just because the deaths were limited there to elderly doesn't remotely mean they were across the state. Stop acting like that stupid county remains in a vacuum. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Just now, Jonger said: PPP is only to employers who actually PAY employees. Paycheck protection program. Why is Stebo allowed to post bullshit here? Yeah he fired them instead, so he should have gotten nothing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Just now, Stebo said: Yeah he fired them instead, so he should have gotten nothing. No, he fired them when they told him they wouldn't work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Stebo is way over his head in economics. Isn't there a dust devil to videotape out west? 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Just now, Jonger said: No, he fired them when they told him they wouldn't work. Did he collect the money first? If so then he committed fraud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 minute ago, Stebo said: Did he collect the money first? If so then he committed fraud. The money is paid up front. Ask me how I know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Just now, Jonger said: The money is paid up front. Ask me how I know? If the money was paid up front then he committed fraud by firing the people. Sounds like some classy business practice up there in Howell. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 7 minutes ago, Jonger said: https://www.livingstondaily.com/story/news/local/community/livingston-county/2020/06/16/nursing-homes-account-all-but-1-livingstons-28-covid-19-deaths/3197937001/ Lies! Your county strikes me as an outlier as far as the distribution of deaths. I looked it up and the latest population estimate for Livingston county is 190,000. I would bet there aren't many counties of that size that have 95-100% of the covid deaths coming from nursing homes. I could see that being more common in very rural counties where it stays mostly contained inside of the facilities. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Just now, Hoosier said: Your county strikes me as an outlier as far as the distribution of deaths. I looked it up and the latest population estimate for Livingston county is 190,000. I would bet there aren't many counties of that size that have 95-100% of the covid deaths coming from nursing homes. I could see that being more common in very rural counties where it stays mostly contained inside of the facilities. All the counties around him except for Shiawassee have higher case rates and higher death rates. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wisconsinwx Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 16 minutes ago, Stebo said: Your county isn't the state and the virus wasn't just localized to your county. Just because the deaths were limited there to elderly doesn't remotely mean they were across the state. Stop acting like that stupid county remains in a vacuum. Wow we get to the point of calling a county that seemingly did quite well limiting the unnecessary deaths a stupid county? I’m sure his story of people choosing unemployment over working isn’t isolated either. It’s a legit thing to bring up. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 11 minutes ago, Stebo said: If the money was paid up front then he committed fraud by firing the people. Sounds like some classy business practice up there in Howell. Nope, he'll have to pay it back. You have to use 80% of the funds for payroll. He won't be able to hire an entire new crew and train them with zero notice. He is like many other business owners with this $600 fiasco -- f-cked. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Just now, wisconsinwx said: Wow we get to the point of calling a county that seemingly did quite well limiting the unnecessary deaths a stupid county? I’m sure his story of people choosing unemployment over working isn’t isolated either. It’s a legit thing to bring up. No it isn't but employers forcing people back to work like that or firing them is just a horrible business model. Those employees had every right to complain. I call his county stupid because he keeps using it as an anecdote to prove a point. He has done this for years, you know that. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 minute ago, Jonger said: Nope, he'll have to pay it back. You have to use 80% of the funds for payroll. He won't be able to hire an entire new crew and train them with zero notice. He is like many other business owners with this $600 fiasco -- f-cked. As he should pay it back. Also maybe he should offer his workers better pay to keep them on instead of firing them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 12 minutes ago, Hoosier said: Your county strikes me as an outlier as far as the distribution of deaths. I looked it up and the latest population estimate for Livingston county is 190,000. I would bet there aren't many counties of that size that have 95-100% of the covid deaths coming from nursing homes. I could see that being more common in very rural counties where it stays mostly contained inside of the facilities. It is what it is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Just now, Jonger said: It is what it is. Yeah an anecdote against the mean 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Just now, Stebo said: No it isn't but employers forcing people back to work like that or firing them is just a horrible business model. Those employees had every right to complain. I call his county stupid because he keeps using it as an anecdote to prove a point. He has done this for years, you know that. I'm going to assume his lawyers are better at legal issues than you are. If we're talking about wind blown rain, that's obviously your turf. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Just now, Jonger said: I'm going to assume his lawyers are better at legal issues than you are. If we're talking about wind blown rain, that's obviously your turf. Yeah law supports the owners over the workers, that isn't even remotely shocking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 minute ago, Stebo said: As he should pay it back. Also maybe he should offer his workers better pay to keep them on instead of firing them. If he paid lower than other establishments, nobody would work for him. I can't pay people under $15 an hour and expect good employees. I pay 17 year old part timers $15 an hour. That's how I personally handle things 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Just now, Jonger said: If he paid lower than other establishments, nobody would work for him. I can't pay people under $15 an hour and expect good employees. I pay 17 year old part timers $15 an hour. That's how I personally handle things Well that is good that you do, but maybe he could paid 16 or 17 per hour who knows. Trust me I do agree that 600/week extra was a bit too much 400 would be much more reasonable. But you even admit that pay is too low these days. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Just now, Stebo said: Well that is good that you do, but maybe he could paid 16 or 17 per hour who knows. Trust me I do agree that 600/week extra was a bit too much 400 would be much more reasonable. But you even admit that pay is too low these days. They settled on $600 factoring in higher cost of living states, so this isn't going to be an issue in NYC or LA... but Michigan and other middle tier states are getting boned by employees not wanting to take a pay cut to return to work. I mean... sh1t, I get it.... but it's irresponsible of the employee and they'll feel the pain when restrictions are lifted, the $600 ends and there is a mad dash for jobs. Think musical chairs, but with several million people being left without a chair when the music stops. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wisconsinwx Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 9 minutes ago, Stebo said: As he should pay it back. Also maybe he should offer his workers better pay to keep them on instead of firing them. I believe the firing is what allows them to collect this more advantageous unemployment ironically, so in a backwards way it is doing them a favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 We do have too many restaurants, that's a fact. I read an article about that years ago. Europe has way less establishments for each person on average. They called it a bubble that's going to pop. Those who survive this will come out way ahead of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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