Coronavirus

[Stebo]

Just now, dta1984 said:

This is partially because some people are making more money on unemployment and have money to spend.  Also people working from home are spending less on gas and travel in general. 

Most of those people either A. have spent the money on keeping their house or B. are saving it for other things. Yes there are some spending which actually is good to keep the economy going but I believe that is a distant C and a good amount of that money can be contributed to the spending less on gas/travel even things like lunch at work add up.

[Guest ovweather]

6 minutes ago, dta1984 said:

This is partially because some people are making more money on unemployment and have money to spend.  Also people working from home are spending less on gas and travel in general. 

The people getting $600 a week aren’t going to use it to do a $25,000 remodel of a kitchen or bathroom.

Working from home will be great for the economy (and the environment) in the long term, if it continues. Sure, people will spend less on gas and car expenses and that will hurt oil companies (poor babies) and some auto related businesses, but people will have more money to spend on frivolous things.

[BuffaloWeather]

1 hour ago, Jonger said:

Almost everyone out of a job since this started is being paid more than the were while working. Most, not all. At least the ones that can least afford it and have less marketable skills.

 

That's pretty sad if that's the case. Michigan MAX UI per week is $362. Not everyone gets the maximum amount. This was a temporary 4 month relief, it wasn't meant to last forever and it isn't.

Add in the $600 and you're at 962 per week * 52 and thats 50k a year. The average US salary is

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), the median wage for workers in the United States in the first quarter of 2020 was $957 per week or $49,764 per year. So your notion is simply incorrect.

50k a year isn't even that good in my poor little city of Buffalo. 

https://www.savingtoinvest.com/maximum-weekly-unemployment-benefits-by-state/

[BuffaloWeather]

My wife is unable to go back to work for awhile as foreclosures are delayed until at least Aug 19th in New York State and likely longer. Really hoping they extend the UI benefits even if they slash the $600 in half. Her law firm of 200 people with offices in New York, Long Island, and Florida are still closed. Most of these employees are making far less on UI then they were working at the firm.

[Jonger]

Just now, BuffaloWeather said:

That's pretty sad if that's the case. Michigan MAX UI per week is $362. Not everyone gets the maximum amount.

Add in the $600 and you're at 962 per week * 52 and thats 50k a year. The average US salary is

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), the median wage for workers in the United States in the first quarter of 2020 was $957 per week or $49,764 per year. So your notion is simply incorrect. 50k a year isn't even that good in my poor little city of Buffalo. 

https://www.savingtoinvest.com/maximum-weekly-unemployment-benefits-by-state/

Those impacted are disproportionally lower paid and minorities. The average income in Detroit is $29.4k.

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/detroitcitymichigan/INC110218

[Stebo]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloWeather said:

That's pretty sad if that's the case. Michigan MAX UI per week is $362. Not everyone gets the maximum amount. This was a temporary 4 month relief, it wasn't meant to last forever and it isn't.

Add in the $600 and you're at 962 per week * 52 and thats 50k a year. The average US salary is

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), the median wage for workers in the United States in the first quarter of 2020 was $957 per week or $49,764 per year. So your notion is simply incorrect.

50k a year isn't even that good in my poor little city of Buffalo. 

https://www.savingtoinvest.com/maximum-weekly-unemployment-benefits-by-state/

He is upset that some are getting more than if they were working. But doesn't believe the workers should be paid more to begin with because he views their jobs as lowly. Its circle logic to him.

[BuffaloWeather]

Just now, Jonger said:

Those impacted are disproportionally lower paid and minorities. The average income in Detroit is $29.4k.

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/detroitcitymichigan/INC110218

"Almost everyone out of a job since this started is being paid more than the were while working. Most, not all."

Incorrect.

[Stebo]

Just now, Jonger said:

Those impacted are disproportionally lower paid and minorities. The average income in Detroit is $29.4k.

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/detroitcitymichigan/INC110218

And there it is, no surprise why you picked Detroit knowing your beliefs.

[Jonger]

Just now, Stebo said:

And there it is, no surprise why you picked Detroit knowing your beliefs.

It's the largest city in Michigan.

[BuffaloWeather]

I need to move to Mass. I know the cost of living there is very high. But with dependents they were making $1834 a week. (95K annual)

$823 (Individual) up to $1,234 (w/dependents)

[Jonger]

 

[BuffaloWeather]

2 minutes ago, Jonger said:

 

This is true if you include fast food workers/restaurants (tip based). Tip based industries never claim their full tips so that is highly subjective. Waitresses make insane money around here with tips+wage. But UI is calculated based on claimed income. Fast food never closed, and restaurants were only closed for 1-2 months depending on what state.

[Hoosier]

Was a little scared to open this thread when I saw it was a "hot" topic.  Good to see it didn't go down the toilet with a bunch of name calling and bashing.

Anyway, carry on.  

[Jackstraw]

52 minutes ago, Stebo said:

Most of those people either A. have spent the money on keeping their house or B. are saving it for other things. Yes there are some spending which actually is good to keep the economy going but I believe that is a distant C and a good amount of that money can be contributed to the spending less on gas/travel even things like lunch at work add up.

  And OMG people may be socking it away because they don't know what's around the corner.  Paying off debt to reduce or eliminate bills in case it gets worse.   God forbid Americans cut their credit cards, increase their savings and stop borrowing money for things like snowmobiles.  When this first hit banks were getting jumpy because people were suddenly paying down credit card debt, were trying to increase their savings.  When I was a kid that was taught to me as being financially responsible.  This economy is a slave to debt.  I choose not to participate in that type of economy thank you very much.

[BuffaloWeather]

10 minutes ago, Jackstraw said:

  And OMG people may be socking it away because they don't know what's around the corner.  Paying off debt to reduce or eliminate bills in case it gets worse.   God forbid Americans cut their credit cards, increase their savings and stop borrowing money for things like snowmobiles.  When this first hit banks were getting jumpy because people were suddenly paying down credit card debt, were trying to increase their savings.  When I was a kid that was taught to me as being financially responsible.  This economy is a slave to debt.  I choose not to participate in that type of economy thank you very much.

I am the same way, but the American economy only does so well because the majority spend way beyond their means. My only debt is a 2.75% mortgage payment.

[A-L-E-K]

Money is fake you goobers 

[RyanDe680]

11 hours ago, Jonger said:

It's the largest city in Michigan.

LOL

[chances14]

10 hours ago, BuffaloWeather said:

I am the same way, but the American economy only does so well because the majority spend way beyond their means. My only debt is a 2.75% mortgage payment.

yup it's a double edged sword for me. My business has been booming ever since the PUA benefits kicked in and this is typically the slowest time of the year for me. Most of these people are probably up to their eyeballs in debt when they should actually be taking all that extra free money and using it to pay down their debts.

[madwx]

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/2768916

60% of middle aged people had cardiac inflammation after getting COVID.  20% with pericardial effusion.  Average BMI 25.  

Fun.  Fun fun fun.

[nwohweather]

13 hours ago, Stebo said:

Is there a need to have millions of options when we could have 100s of thousands? Again not every small business needs to survive, yes it is unfortunate but shit happens.

To be fair you've learned more than I could ever hope to in meteorology, but as an MBA I have to say you're missing the boat here. There is a need because the market demands it, that literally is how the system works. Businesses just don't randomly invest capital in places, they do so because there is a profitable demand for it based on forecasts. You say "shit happens" but that shit is people losing incomes, retirement packages, benefits & blight growing in our community due to a vacant building. This then depresses the local community & drives values down even more leading to a vicious cycle which is seen everyday in the Rust Belt. Worst of all those small businesses are anchored jobs that cannot be outsourced, which makes them incredibly valuable. For example lets say I have a car parts factory in Detroit, I can easily move it to Mexico, pay in labor & benefits about $25 an hour less & then just turn my Detroit factory into a distribution center where warehouse guys are paid $16 an hour. My profits will go up which allows me to underbid other suppliers and keep the contracts, while the American warehouse adds stability to my supply chain going to the OEM's. This simple example cannot be done with an electrician which pays incredibly well, but obviously I cannot move an electrician from Canton to Monterrey. 

We can argue all day what should be done, but honestly the economic impact here is similar to what New Orleans was going through on August 28th, 2005 when Hurricane Katrina was eyeing the area. It's just awful impending doom of a worse case scenario that brings nothing but dread. The economies of Illinois, Michigan & New York are not going to suffer from this, they will be destroyed. Literally what I am seeing now frightens me for the Northern states that are already disadvantaged by being union dominated. The flight to the Sun Belt has already been steady to avoid the high costs of union labor & contractors. 

The American economy's ruthless & lightly regulated nature will allow for a rebound, make no mistake. But the cost of these restrictive lockdowns from a dollars and cents category is almost unfathomable. I've been able to on average cut contractors rates by about 20% in Michigan without any resistance because there's just a complete lack of work. Yesterday I had a landscaper offer to do one of our facilities at half off if I would consider giving him work at a few of our sites in North Carolina as he is planning on closing up in Michigan and moving to the South to avoid going under. It's crazy the difference in conversations I have concerning Chicago & Detroit over Charlotte & Atlanta. Just almost two different economies at this point.

[Stebo]

2 minutes ago, nwohweather said:

To be fair you've learned more than I could ever hope to in meteorology, but as an MBA I have to say you're missing the boat here. There is a need because the market demands it, that literally is how the system works. Businesses just don't randomly invest capital in places, they do so because there is a profitable demand for it based on forecasts. You say "shit happens" but that shit is people losing incomes, retirement packages, benefits & blight growing in our community due to a vacant building. This then depresses the local community & drives values down even more leading to a vicious cycle which is seen everyday in the Rust Belt. Worst of all those small businesses are anchored jobs that cannot be outsourced, which makes them incredibly valuable. For example lets say I have a car parts factory in Detroit, I can easily move it to Mexico, pay in labor & benefits about $25 an hour less & then just turn my Detroit factory into a distribution center where warehouse guys are paid $16 an hour. My profits will go up which allows me to underbid other suppliers and keep the contracts, while the American warehouse adds stability to my supply chain going to the OEM's. This simple example cannot be done with an electrician which pays incredibly well, but obviously I cannot move an electrician from Canton to Monterrey. 

We can argue all day what should be done, but honestly the economic impact here is similar to what New Orleans was going through on August 28th, 2005 when Hurricane Katrina was eyeing the area. It's just awful impending doom of a worse case scenario that brings nothing but dread. The economies of Illinois, Michigan & New York are not going to suffer from this, they will be destroyed. Literally what I am seeing now frightens me for the Northern states that are already disadvantaged by being union dominated. The flight to the Sun Belt has already been steady to avoid the high costs of union labor & contractors. 

The American economy's ruthless & lightly regulated nature will allow for a rebound, make no mistake. But the cost of these restrictive lockdowns from a dollars and cents category is almost unfathomable. I've been able to on average cut contractors rates by about 20% in Michigan without any resistance because there's just a complete lack of work. Yesterday I had a landscaper offer to do one of our facilities at half off if I would consider giving him work at a few of our sites in North Carolina as he is planning on closing up in Michigan and moving to the South to avoid going under. It's crazy the difference in conversations I have concerning Chicago & Detroit over Charlotte & Atlanta. Just almost two different economies at this point.

All you economists have no answers for what we should do other than opening everything up and hoping we don't kill millions. Sorry but that is about as irrational as can be, guess what when millions get sick how many people will be working or buying shit? You can bluster all you want about the economy but that doesn't matter with how many are getting sick and dying.

Also nice shot at unions in there, guess where we would be if we didn't have unions throughout history. All it is, is profit over anything with you people. Who cares how much you stomp out the little guy as long as we make the absolute most money possible.

[Stebo]

34 minutes ago, madwx said:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/2768916

60% of middle aged people had cardiac inflammation after getting COVID.  20% with pericardial effusion.  Average BMI 25.  

Fun.  Fun fun fun.

But the economy...

[Chicago Storm]

lol @ the Wisconsin quarantine order for Chicago.

Good luck with that one.


.

[Jonger]

1 hour ago, chances14 said:

yup it's a double edged sword for me. My business has been booming ever since the PUA benefits kicked in and this is typically the slowest time of the year for me. Most of these people are probably up to their eyeballs in debt when they should actually be taking all that extra free money and using it to pay down their debts.

We're selling lobster and crab like it's going out of style lately.

Not the kind of purchase that's responsible for people on a fixed budget. 

But... that's not going to stop me from selling it to them.

[Santa Clause]

23 minutes ago, Stebo said:

All you economists have no answers for what we should do other than opening everything up and hoping we don't kill millions. Sorry but that is about as irrational as can be, guess what when millions get sick how many people will be working or buying shit? You can bluster all you want about the economy but that doesn't matter with how many are getting sick and dying.

Also nice shot at unions in there, guess where we would be if we didn't have unions throughout history. All it is, is profit over anything with you people. Who cares how much you stomp out the little guy as long as we make the absolute most money possible.

This is exactly it, it’s going to take a hit anyways with everyone getting sick and seeing people they know pass away.

[Jonger]

30 minutes ago, nwohweather said:

To be fair you've learned more than I could ever hope to in meteorology, but as an MBA I have to say you're missing the boat here. There is a need because the market demands it, that literally is how the system works. Businesses just don't randomly invest capital in places, they do so because there is a profitable demand for it based on forecasts. You say "shit happens" but that shit is people losing incomes, retirement packages, benefits & blight growing in our community due to a vacant building. This then depresses the local community & drives values down even more leading to a vicious cycle which is seen everyday in the Rust Belt. Worst of all those small businesses are anchored jobs that cannot be outsourced, which makes them incredibly valuable. For example lets say I have a car parts factory in Detroit, I can easily move it to Mexico, pay in labor & benefits about $25 an hour less & then just turn my Detroit factory into a distribution center where warehouse guys are paid $16 an hour. My profits will go up which allows me to underbid other suppliers and keep the contracts, while the American warehouse adds stability to my supply chain going to the OEM's. This simple example cannot be done with an electrician which pays incredibly well, but obviously I cannot move an electrician from Canton to Monterrey. 

We can argue all day what should be done, but honestly the economic impact here is similar to what New Orleans was going through on August 28th, 2005 when Hurricane Katrina was eyeing the area. It's just awful impending doom of a worse case scenario that brings nothing but dread. The economies of Illinois, Michigan & New York are not going to suffer from this, they will be destroyed. Literally what I am seeing now frightens me for the Northern states that are already disadvantaged by being union dominated. The flight to the Sun Belt has already been steady to avoid the high costs of union labor & contractors. 

The American economy's ruthless & lightly regulated nature will allow for a rebound, make no mistake. But the cost of these restrictive lockdowns from a dollars and cents category is almost unfathomable. I've been able to on average cut contractors rates by about 20% in Michigan without any resistance because there's just a complete lack of work. Yesterday I had a landscaper offer to do one of our facilities at half off if I would consider giving him work at a few of our sites in North Carolina as he is planning on closing up in Michigan and moving to the South to avoid going under. It's crazy the difference in conversations I have concerning Chicago & Detroit over Charlotte & Atlanta. Just almost two different economies at this point.

 

What can I help you with today? Mortgage, a box of cereal, how about a super low price on your future casket?

[Jonger]

Just now, Wmsptwx said:

This is exactly it, it’s going to take a hit anyways with everyone getting sick and seeing people they know pass away.

I have never met anyone who has met anyone with COVID.

We would have to play a version of 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon to find the link.

[Santa Clause]

3 minutes ago, Jonger said:

I have never met anyone who has met anyone with COVID.

We would have to play a version of 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon to find the link.

I’ve known several and had guy from our trout fishing cabin pass away from it. Guess it’s all about your own experiences.

[nwohweather]

44 minutes ago, Stebo said:

All you economists have no answers for what we should do other than opening everything up and hoping we don't kill millions. Sorry but that is about as irrational as can be, guess what when millions get sick how many people will be working or buying shit? You can bluster all you want about the economy but that doesn't matter with how many are getting sick and dying.

Also nice shot at unions in there, guess where we would be if we didn't have unions throughout history. All it is, is profit over anything with you people. Who cares how much you stomp out the little guy as long as we make the absolute most money possible.

I don't make policy decisions, I just explain the economic ramifications of what is happening. Lol other people can make those decisions accordingly. 

You have to realize money has no eyes, has no heart, has no soul. You're right though, it is profit over anything. You're taking this personally, and business isn't about emotion, it's about being good. I don't really care about what unions did previously, I care how I can beat their high labor costs & hard protections of employees. Luckily for our company, customers and shareholders I almost always win

[Jonger]

7 hours ago, A-L-E-K said:

Money is fake you goobers 

Let's see how fake it is when I try to pay my mortgage with monopoly money.