Guest ovweather Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 2 hours ago, Hoosier said: Anyway, this thread is getting too political. Get back on track. Yes, but unfortunately Covid has become very political, so it’s hard to not discuss the political side of it. After all, the country may have been much better off than we are right now if politics had not gotten involved in the first place. And as another poster said, the media deserves much blame, too, not only for its fear-mongering Covid coverage, but for intensifying racial tensions in this country by inaccurate reporting. Again, Covid definitely needs to be taken seriously, but the narrative needs to be controlled by rational and intelligent non-partisan individuals and not misinformed and political agenda driven bureaucrats and media outlets. I wonder what the founding fathers of this country would think of what their country has become in the year 2020 when it can’t handle a pandemic correctly? It’s shameful, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Clause Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 We have a raging pandemic of a dangerous virus. To say that is not political. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueWaves Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 2 hours ago, Inverted_Trough said: Anti-maskers were prevalent in 1918, too: https://crosscut.com/2020/07/mask-wars-1918-flu-pandemic It appears back in 1918 they actually enforced the rule more than they are doing today. Read several of those articles, thx. And those anti-maskers were in an era (or shortly after) when donning masks for all kinds of illnesses/outbreaks/mass deaths was quite common. It's worth noting in the main article that masking was more popular during the war as it was viewed as patriotic. It was post-war that the real push-backs started in earnest. It's also difficult to make an even comparison between then and now for other reasons as well. The slowness with which data could circulate to the general public (night and day). The number of fatalities were massive with that thus the fear was legit as most people lost loved ones, or at least knew local people who got ill and/or perished. As for enforcing more then, the "mask police" on the street corner did that, but downtown's were the marketplace then. Would be the equivalent of shopping malls today, which here anyways are barely open. But then again, brick-n-morter's been on life support due to online markets taking over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueWaves Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 2 hours ago, Inverted_Trough said: Swine flu in 2009 was far less deadlier than the traditional flu. The IFR for swine flu is 0.01 (compared to ~0.1 for the traditional flu). So it made sense to just let it burn through the population. If the swine flu had an IFR of 0.5 or 1.0 (i.e. similar to Covid) we would have seen a similar response. Swine flu also didn't have the longer term complications that Covid appears to be causing in many of those who have recovered (of course we need more time to assess the impact of these effects but its disconcerting and not talked about much) We may have that convenient data now, but was it known at the beginning of that coming into the U.S. when decisions were being made? If not, then it isn't a fair comparison in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueWaves Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 25 minutes ago, Wmsptwx said: We have a raging pandemic of a dangerous virus. To say that is not political. I would say it's "raging and dangerous" when death numbers are spiking, not just test cases catching up with the inevitable spread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueWaves Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 41 minutes ago, Stebo said: I will trust this chart over your thoughts The 2 aren't that far apart on the chart actually. If the outdoor cookout is presuming distancing then yeah, it edges out the indoors eatery. I've been to one pool party and it was with immediate fam mostly so the distancing was a bit lax. I just came from eating-in at the local B&N coffee shop and felt totally safe. Tables were limited and spread about 10 or 12 feet apart. Masks were worn whenever you were not at your table eating and drinking. It's self-serve so no waitstaff running around and it wasn't that busy but most tables were in use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueWaves Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 3 hours ago, Jonger said: Should probably just make masks mandatory for 6 months while opening everything immediately. End the $600 per week and then let's see what kind of economy we have left. As much as this has helped your biz, it's a disaster for thousands and cutting-off assistance cold turkey is not the way to go. Opening as you outline is right, but those that don't have a job to return to will be destitute if left on their own with zero aid. The over-generous fed pandemic UIA is already set to expire and I don't think the Dem's will manage to get it extended. A more realistic amount/formula is in the works as a compromise between the D's 3T proposal and the R's 1T proposal. Stay tuned.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 8 minutes ago, RogueWaves said: As much as this has helped your biz, it's a disaster for thousands and cutting-off assistance cold turkey is not the way to go. Opening as you outline is right, but those that don't have a job to return to will be destitute if left on their own with zero aid. The over-generous fed pandemic UIA is already set to expire and I don't think the Dem's will manage to get it extended. A more realistic amount/formula is in the works as a compromise between the D's 3T proposal and the R's 1T proposal. Stay tuned.. They should still get regular unemployment if they did lose their jobs. It's a shame, since I doubt we saved any lives. We might have prolonged a few, but as we're seeing from hot spot states.... it kills the vulnerable and then runs out of steam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 Just now, Jonger said: They should still get regular unemployment if they did lose their jobs. It's a shame, since I doubt we saved any lives. We might have prolonged a few, but as we're seeing from hot spot states.... it kills the vulnerable and then runs out of steam. You try living on 360 a week while having a mortgage/rent and utilities. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, Stebo said: You try living on 360 a week while having a mortgage/rent and utilities. Never said it's a good time. I'd also have let this rip from the start, we could have quarantined the old and morbidly obese. Now, people's lives are ruined to save fatty mcmuffin. https://hub.jhu.edu/2020/06/01/david-kass-obesity-covid-19/ 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwohweather Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 I will trust this chart over your thoughts Hahaha I’ve done all of the Moderate-High and half of the High Risk ones. Funny moment actually when I landed at Detroit, this woman absolutely jumped when I sneezed. Haha the jumpiness in some is wild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 44 minutes ago, Jonger said: Never said it's a good time. I'd also have let this rip from the start, we could have quarantined the old and morbidly obese. Now, people's lives are ruined to save fatty mcmuffin. https://hub.jhu.edu/2020/06/01/david-kass-obesity-covid-19/ It may work if we can definitively know that people cannot be reinfected, the quarantined people never set foot outside of their houses and never come in contact with a non quarantined individual. Other than that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueWaves Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 57 minutes ago, Stebo said: You try living on 360 a week while having a mortgage/rent and utilities. Yeah, and I wasn't slamming Jonger for his biz making out good. But the state UIA maximum (which hasn't changed in literally decades) is a joke as far as living on it for anyone that makes a decent wage/salary. Forget it unless you are single with super cheap rent, can live on starvation-level calories, and don't own/maintain a car. It's gap insurance, I get it, but you better have that nest egg to chew on or you'll be hurtin for certain, and quickly. Other better scenario is ofc if you're married and have a spouse who is still getting their normal income. That's much easier all the way around. I am amazed that the state's court system is gearing up to deal with an estimated 80K+ "renter evictions" as we head into August when the governor is allowing the pandemic protection to expire. Who are these people? It doesn't make sense as anyone who had a job and qualified for UIA should've been getting the extra $2400/mo which easily pays 99% of people's rent around MI with plenty left-over in most cases. I know it's been mentioned that people have been living "high on the hog" if the pandemic $$ was actually more than they made working, but still, you pay the rent first, right?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueWaves Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 41 minutes ago, nwohweather said: Hahaha I’ve done all of the Moderate-High and half of the High Risk ones. Funny moment actually when I landed at Detroit, this woman absolutely jumped when I sneezed. Haha the jumpiness in some is wild In Michigan? I don't think you even have the option to do those here. Mine would've stopped at getting a haircut aside from the mentioned visit to the bookstore's coffee shop area, and an unfortunately timed death in the immediate family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueWaves Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Jonger said: Never said it's a good time. I'd also have let this rip from the start, we could have quarantined the old and morbidly obese. Now, people's lives are ruined to save fatty mcmuffin. https://hub.jhu.edu/2020/06/01/david-kass-obesity-covid-19/ Yet, our state's leadership chose the non-traditional path of folding tent and closing shop. Who doesn't understand that this economic crunch will role up to the government payrolls in due time as private sector businesses are who/what actually funds all those services/dept's. It's like "ready, fire, aim!"...as you shoot your own foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwohweather Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 In Michigan? I don't think you even have the option to do those here. Mine would've stopped at getting a haircut aside from the mentioned visit to the bookstore's coffee shop area, and an unfortunately timed death in the immediate family.Nah I live in Charleston, SC now. But church, bars & went to the race at Bristol last week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Jonger said: Never said it's a good time. I'd also have let this rip from the start, we could have quarantined the old and morbidly obese. Now, people's lives are ruined to save fatty mcmuffin. https://hub.jhu.edu/2020/06/01/david-kass-obesity-covid-19/ This isn't just impacting fat or old people. What the **** is wrong with you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted_Trough Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 2 hours ago, RogueWaves said: We may have that convenient data now, but was it known at the beginning of that coming into the U.S. when decisions were being made? If not, then it isn't a fair comparison in my book. There was some concern at the very beginning that it could be similar to the Spanish Flu (since that was also a H1N1 variant), but after a couple months it was readily apparent that it was a relatively mild -- albeit extremely infectious - flu. The flu is an upper respiratory virus, so it doesn't affect your oxygen levels (unless it devolves into a bacterial pneumonia). Covid appears to attack the lower respiratory system, causing shortness of breath and low oxygen levels in a significant portion of people, and because of that it has a much higher hospitalization rate. (I think the hospitalization rate is ~15% for anyone older than 65, and it's even ~5% for people in their 30s/40s...which is crazy.) It's the high hospitalization rate (compared to the flu) that causes the medical community to freak out. The strain on the medical system from Covid is orders of magnitude greater than the swine flu. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerball Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 Welp, can't go to the Bahamas now... Bahamas closes borders to U.S. tourists after COVID-19 cases spike; others still welcome We (the United States) have become the world's ghetto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Clause Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 1 minute ago, Powerball said: Welp, can't go to the Bahamas now... Bahamas closes borders to U.S. tourists after COVID-19 cases spike; others still welcome We (the United States) have become the world's ghetto. Who can blame any country, we have exploding growth of virus. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ovweather Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 Hall of Fame golf legend Jack Nicklaus said today his wife and him both had Covid at the beginning of its onset in the US. His wife had no symptoms and Jack had a sore throat and cough. Both are 80 years old, recovered fine, and now test positive for the antibodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wisconsinwx Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 29 minutes ago, ovweather said: Hall of Fame golf legend Jack Nicklaus said today his wife and him both had Covid at the beginning of its onset in the US. His wife had no symptoms and Jack had a sore throat and cough. Both are 80 years old, recovered fine, and now test positive for the antibodies. Interesting, I was watching his tournament today and must have been away at the time because I did not catch that. Did he say what month he thought it was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanDe680 Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 59 minutes ago, wisconsinwx said: Interesting, I was watching his tournament today and must have been away at the time because I did not catch that. Did he say what month he thought it was? Both in March. His wife was asymptomatic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanDe680 Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 6 hours ago, Jonger said: Never said it's a good time. I'd also have let this rip from the start, we could have quarantined the old and morbidly obese. Now, people's lives are ruined to save fatty mcmuffin. https://hub.jhu.edu/2020/06/01/david-kass-obesity-covid-19/ You don’t even know what obese is then. I’m 40, a 44 chest with a 33 waist and I’m 5’7”, 195. Guess what, I’m considered obese. I don’t have a belly, I just workout more. Your rants are a disgrace to society and everyone else on here. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wisconsinwx Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 1 hour ago, RyanDe680 said: You don’t even know what obese is then. I’m 40, a 44 chest with a 33 waist and I’m 5’7”, 195. Guess what, I’m considered obese. I don’t have a belly, I just workout more. Your rants are a disgrace to society and everyone else on here. He wouldn’t be talking about someone who is considered obese due to huge muscles adding weight. To use a golf example Bryson DeChambeau sounds like a similar comparison to your body type bulk wise, but he wouldn’t be at a high risk most likely because he’s young and he is a heavier weight due to working out and protein shakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 7 hours ago, RyanDe680 said: You don’t even know what obese is then. I’m 40, a 44 chest with a 33 waist and I’m 5’7”, 195. Guess what, I’m considered obese. I don’t have a belly, I just workout more. Your rants are a disgrace to society and everyone else on here. Ok.... well, I'm clearly not talking about you. Chill out bro, it was a comment based on medical community data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattb65 Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 3 hours ago, Jonger said: Ok.... well, I'm clearly not talking about you. Chill out bro, it was a comment based on medical community data. 42.4% of American adults are obese. Nearly 50% of men aged 40-59 are obese. You wouldn't have much of an economy with your ridiculous and unconstitutional, not to mention impossible plan. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db360.htm#:~:text=The age-adjusted prevalence of obesity among U.S. adults was,adults aged 60 and over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 54 minutes ago, mattb65 said: 42.4% of American adults are obese. Nearly 50% of men aged 40-59 are obese. You wouldn't have much of an economy with your ridiculous and unconstitutional, not to mention impossible plan. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db360.htm#:~:text=The age-adjusted prevalence of obesity among U.S. adults was,adults aged 60 and over. But forcing everyone out of a job is constitutional. Sounds like a major problem if true. Edit. Selectivity forcing people out of a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 37 minutes ago, Jonger said: But forcing everyone out of a job is constitutional. Sounds like a major problem if true. Edit. Selectivity forcing people out of a job. Everyone stopped working? Weird I must have missed the memo when I worked the entire time along with 75% of all other workers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted_Trough Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 The states are within their rights to shut down businesses within their state jurisdiction. The constitutionality of the federal government doing so is an open question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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