Coronavirus

[Jonger]

8 hours ago, Stebo said:

What else would you call your comment of wasting money on payroll, you are viewing the workers for a business as nothing more than line items to be eliminated. It is those same workers that then don't have money to buy the products. This country has gone far away from the Henry Ford models where you pay a good wage so the workers can buy the products they make or services provided.

No for-profit business in America hires people just to give them jobs. You hire people so your operation has needed labor and people in place to operate at maximum profit potential. Yes, profit is the driver of a capitalist system.

I wish we could return to 1950s prosperity, but that had far more to do with our lack of rebuilding necessary after the war. Global competition just wasn't there.

[luckyweather]

No for-profit business in America hires people just to give them jobs. You hire people so your operation has needed labor and people in place to operate at maximum profit potential. Yes, profit is the driver of a capitalist system.
I wish we could return to 1950s prosperity, but that had far more to do with our lack of rebuilding necessary after the war. Global competition just wasn't there.

I am in leadership for a B Corp. These are our ideals:

* That we must be the change we seek in the world.
* That all business ought to be conducted as if people and place mattered.
* That, through their products, practices, and profits, businesses should aspire to do no harm and benefit all.
* To do so requires that we act with the understanding that we are each dependent upon another and thus responsible for each other and future generations.

[Jonger]

43 minutes ago, luckyweather said:

 

I am in leadership for a B Corp. These are our ideals:

* That we must be the change we seek in the world.
* That all business ought to be conducted as if people and place mattered.
* That, through their products, practices, and profits, businesses should aspire to do no harm and benefit all.
* To do so requires that we act with the understanding that we are each dependent upon another and thus responsible for each other and future generations.

 

I had to look up what that is.

What industry are you in?

 

[nwohweather]

2 hours ago, luckyweather said:

 

I am in leadership for a B Corp. These are our ideals:

* That we must be the change we seek in the world.
* That all business ought to be conducted as if people and place mattered.
* That, through their products, practices, and profits, businesses should aspire to do no harm and benefit all.
* To do so requires that we act with the understanding that we are each dependent upon another and thus responsible for each other and future generations.

 

Thats cool but ultimately it's about building market share & if you become public making money for your shareholders. Those are respectable ideals but money has no eyes, it has no heart, it has no eyes. Sometimes the greatest change you can make is giving someone a check to earn a nice life, and that is something we tend to overlook as a society. 

I appreciate the banter on here but everyone needs to calm down. We can have an open society with the right PPE, but it requires a mask. At the same time restrictive shutdowns ala Michigan are going to cost that state many of the gains it made following the Great Recession & will accelerate the drive to do business in the Sun Belt. 

Just not enough balance in a lot of these posts, everyone needs to quit being so hard left & hard right here. 

[Stebo]

18 minutes ago, nwohweather said:

Thats cool but ultimately it's about building market share & if you become public making money for your shareholders. Those are respectable ideals but money has no eyes, it has no heart, it has no eyes. Sometimes the greatest change you can make is giving someone a check to earn a nice life, and that is something we tend to overlook as a society. 

I appreciate the banter on here but everyone needs to calm down. We can have an open society with the right PPE, but it requires a mask. At the same time restrictive shutdowns ala Michigan are going to cost that state many of the gains it made following the Great Recession & will accelerate the drive to do business in the Sun Belt. 

Just not enough balance in a lot of these posts, everyone needs to quit being so hard left & hard right here. 

I think the numbers across the country are proving that some restrictive shutdowns are necessary as the places that are highly populated but with a free for all are getting absolutely crushed right now.

[Jonger]

As the most vulnerable pass away and the rest of the population begins to build immunity, we'll probably see less and less flare ups in places that have already been hard hit. That's generally how viruses work. 

Meanwhile, we can probably start discussing the new baseline of unemployment being at less double pre-virus numbers 

[RyanDe680]

3 hours ago, luckyweather said:

 

I am in leadership for a B Corp. These are our ideals:

* That we must be the change we seek in the world.
* That all business ought to be conducted as if people and place mattered.
* That, through their products, practices, and profits, businesses should aspire to do no harm and benefit all.
* To do so requires that we act with the understanding that we are each dependent upon another and thus responsible for each other and future generations.

 

Much respect for the B Corp and the process to become one.  Which may I ask?

[RogueWaves]

On 7/16/2020 at 11:40 AM, Inverted_Trough said:

Wear a mask, Rogue.  If not, you certainly have the freedom & liberty to stay at home.

Unless you're old or in a high risk group, maybe stop buying the fear narrative.

 

[Inverted_Trough]

15 hours ago, OSUmetstud said:

there wasnt a person on earth  on  july 18th 2019 that thought we would be anywhere close to what is happening in the world today. 

Nobody can tell you when a pandemic will happen, but the risk is always there.  People have been warning about this for a long time.  Most probably just assume those people are "alarmists" and that it'll never happen.  Maybe this will teach companies that, instead of spending trillions of dollars of their profit into buying back their shares, maybe they can hold onto some of it as cash reserves...to tide them over during "rainy days" such as our current situation.  But I doubt that will happen.  They'll keep expecting government to bail them out during black swan events.

[Inverted_Trough]

2 minutes ago, RogueWaves said:

Unless you're old or in a high risk group, maybe stop buying the fear narrative.

The point of wearing a mask is to prevent you from giving the virus to an old person or the high risk groups.

You've been reading too much Animal Farm and 1984 during quarantine.

[RogueWaves]

18 hours ago, Stebo said:

What else would you call your comment of wasting money on payroll, you are viewing the workers for a business as nothing more than line items to be eliminated. It is those same workers that then don't have money to buy the products. This country has gone far away from the Henry Ford models where you pay a good wage so the workers can buy the products they make or services provided.

Ford's "revolutionary plan" only worked out that way due to a new thing called mass-production assembly lines that produced cars cheap enough. The other thing going for him was the immense popularity and thus quantity demand for the product. The key to keeping the cars affordable was the volume. No way his plan to pay higher wages works if the volume wasn't there. I worked for Four Winns boats in Cadillac some years back, and trust me, nobody on that assembly line was paid well enough to easily afford even their lower-end sport boats, let alone the really low volume cabin cruisers or even the mid-sized cuddies.

[RogueWaves]

On 7/17/2020 at 10:28 PM, RyanDe680 said:

This thing looks a mess. https://rt.live/

I thought AZ was a massive breakout state? How can they be in the green "not rapidly spreading" category. Makes no sense.

[RogueWaves]

21 minutes ago, Inverted_Trough said:

Nobody can tell you when a pandemic will happen, but the risk is always there.  People have been warning about this for a long time.  Most probably just assume those people are "alarmists" and that it'll never happen.  Maybe this will teach companies that, instead of spending trillions of dollars of their profit into buying back their shares, maybe they can hold onto some of it as cash reserves...to tide them over during "rainy days" such as our current situation.  But I doubt that will happen.  They'll keep expecting government to bail them out during black swan events.

A very good point I've always thought about as well. Unfortunately as you say, most businesses aren't any better than the average household at saving for that rainy day scenario. It's a cultural thing that flew the coup generations ago never to return. As for personal situations, many in #puremichigan were just digging out of the hole left in their finances and nest eggs from the banking fiasco of 2008. Now this, so I wouldn't expect much headway in the goal of that rainy day fund becoming the norm anytime soon. It just won't be possible no matter how much people may wish to do it.

[RogueWaves]

4 hours ago, luckyweather said:

 

I am in leadership for a B Corp. These are our ideals:

* That we must be the change we seek in the world.
* That all business ought to be conducted as if people and place mattered.
* That, through their products, practices, and profits, businesses should aspire to do no harm and benefit all.
* To do so requires that we act with the understanding that we are each dependent upon another and thus responsible for each other and future generations.

Very nice business ideals. Sad that the larger the corp and richer the industry, the more corruption tends to happen. Wish it were otherwise.

[Hoosier]

If you look at the daily case trends in Arizona, there are signs they are beginning to stabilize if not starting to trend downward.  But they had such a spike that there will be dozens dying there each day (some days over 100) for quite a while yet.

[RogueWaves]

25 minutes ago, Inverted_Trough said:

The point of wearing a mask is to prevent you from giving the virus to an old person or the high risk groups.

You've been reading too much Animal Farm and 1984 during quarantine.

Duh. Who said I don't wear a mask? If you look far enough back in the thread made it clear I do wear a mask. But I don't wear one any longer than necessary to conduct close proximity business. That can have adverse side-effects. I wear it when appropriate and not a minute longer than necessary. The masks certainly work to stop moisture droplets/sneezes/cough projectiles that would contain the tiny virus particles. They are not an air-tight seal to the head though, so any normal exhaled air that goes out sideways could also contain the tiny virus particles. They help, but they don't guarantee a prevention of spread by an asymptomatic carrier to those around him/her. We'd all have to dress up in hazmat suits like that cartoon to truly be "safe" in the open marketplace.

[RogueWaves]

2 hours ago, nwohweather said:

Thats cool but ultimately it's about building market share & if you become public making money for your shareholders. Those are respectable ideals but money has no eyes, it has no heart, it has no eyes. Sometimes the greatest change you can make is giving someone a check to earn a nice life, and that is something we tend to overlook as a society. 

I appreciate the banter on here but everyone needs to calm down. We can have an open society with the right PPE, but it requires a mask. At the same time restrictive shutdowns ala Michigan are going to cost that state many of the gains it made following the Great Recession & will accelerate the drive to do business in the Sun Belt. 

Just not enough balance in a lot of these posts, everyone needs to quit being so hard left & hard right here. 

I know you mean well, but where's the fun in the mushy middle? As long as we've been dealt this lousy hand we might as well play it for all it's worth. There's a lot of good banter here not only about the C-19 disaster, but other issues that are part of the bigger picture as well. Posts that are seen by some as antagonistic actually bring forth more discussion and sharing of knowledge. I will add this. I live next door to the Middle School and walking my pooch today noticed a "masks required" sign that had in bold font "ITS THE LAW". I thought "whoa, did we pass a law suddenly?" because the last I knew it was just the governor's most recent emergency order and not a law in the real sense of the term. I'll not mix words. I'm no fan of big gov nor government over-reach. So if the masking is not truly "the law" like wearing seatbelts (or not needing to wear a motorcycle helmet), that sign has me a bit concerned.

[nwohweather]

I think the numbers across the country are proving that some restrictive shutdowns are necessary as the places that are highly populated but with a free for all are getting absolutely crushed right now.

That’s your opinion. I do not believe the government has the ability to mandate these things as it is an overreach. Masks are cool, it’s a good public safeguard, but to declare certain businesses illegal to operate is frightening in my opinion.

Again though this is the big government vs small government argument

[purduewx80]

15 minutes ago, nwohweather said:

That’s your opinion. I do not believe the government has the ability to mandate these things as it is an overreach. Masks are cool, it’s a good public safeguard, but to declare certain businesses illegal to operate is frightening in my opinion.

Again though this is the big government vs small government argument

@Hoosier

I have to question why the mods keep allowing people to make such blatantly political posts. 

[Stebo]

1 hour ago, RogueWaves said:

Unless you're old or in a high risk group, maybe stop buying the fear narrative.

 

What is with continued nonsense. Even if you aren't, someone in your family can be, a friend, neighbor, coworker. No one exists in a vacuum.

[Stebo]

1 hour ago, Hoosier said:

If you look at the daily case trends in Arizona, there are signs they are beginning to stabilize if not starting to trend downward.  But they had such a spike that there will be dozens dying there each day (some days over 100) for quite a while yet.

They are test limited so I would be careful there, the percent of positives is still sky high.

[Stebo]

26 minutes ago, nwohweather said:

That’s your opinion. I do not believe the government has the ability to mandate these things as it is an overreach. Masks are cool, it’s a good public safeguard, but to declare certain businesses illegal to operate is frightening in my opinion.

Again though this is the big government vs small government argument

Laws and state constitutions are in the favor of their ability to do so and thank god for that regardless of your opinion.

[Stebo]

10 minutes ago, purduewx80 said:

@Hoosier

I have to question why the mods keep allowing people to make such blatantly political posts. 

Great question because I could easily devolve that statement he made into a political one because where the individual parties reside.

[nwohweather]

[mention=14]Hoosier[/mention]
I have to question why the mods keep allowing people to make such blatantly political posts. 

The liberal intolerance of other opinions is real. Haha I’m at a loss for words

[Stebo]

5 minutes ago, nwohweather said:

The liberal intolerance of other opinions is real. Haha I’m at a loss for words

More like this isn't a political forum and the place that is has banned some here so they don't get a free ride. We don't care what your opinion is in the end because it's just that, an opinion and not fact nor law.

[Malacka11]

On behalf of all liberals, I apologize for not tolerating opinions that suggest that we should let a lethal virus spread rather than let the government close certain businesses because it's "scary". What's scary to me is how many people this virus has revealed to be conspiracy theorists. 

Edit: I know that this isn't an appropriate comment for this thread, but if a single person reads this and thinks for a minute about it, then that's worth the ban for me. 

[mattb65]

1 hour ago, RogueWaves said:

I thought AZ was a massive breakout state? How can they be in the green "not rapidly spreading" category. Makes no sense.

They have turned the curve and started to see cases decline. Measures of success that their business closures, mask mandates and changed behaviors are working.

Their hospitalizations have flattened and their percent positive is starting to go down this week.

[Stebo]

8 minutes ago, mattb65 said:

They have turned the curve and started to see cases decline. Measures of success that their business closures, mask mandates and changed behaviors are working.

Their hospitalizations have flattened and their percent positive is starting to go down this week.

They are also limiting the amount of tests which is why the positive rate is still huge. I'd be careful of their numbers still.

[Hoosier]

56 minutes ago, purduewx80 said:

@Hoosier

I have to question why the mods keep allowing people to make such blatantly political posts. 

Just because something is left up doesn't mean I'm a personal fan of it.  I'd prefer every post to stick to what the virus is doing and not the other issues surrounding it, but it's sort of inevitable for it to drift.  

This thread has generally not gotten as heated or gone as far off the rails as some of the other covid threads, and hopefully that continues.  

[Powerball]

6 hours ago, nwohweather said:

That’s your opinion. I do not believe the government has the ability to mandate these things as it is an overreach. Masks are cool, it’s a good public safeguard, but to declare certain businesses illegal to operate is frightening in my opinion.

Again though this is the big government vs small government argument

Then I suggest you look up the Supreme Court case Jacobsen vs. Massachusetts (1905).