Guest ovweather Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 4 hours ago, Stebo said: Bingo. Why is a mask immediately a deal breaker for some but not shirt or shoes. All these anti-mask / my freedoms are being violated people need to wake up to the fact that we are not completely free to do as we wish here in the good ole USA, as they seem to suggest. Rules and laws of society are nothing new, so why all the hoopla about having to wear a mask in a public establishment? Indiana announced a new law today that it is now illegal to be driving while holding a cell phone. Why? Because it's a safety hazard to yourself and others around you! Wearing a mask is a safety device for you and those around you during a pandemic of a new virus strain we don't know much about yet. Wear a mask for the time being and STFU about having to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 55 minutes ago, Jonger said: 88 today Need to see what happens in the coming days though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 1 hour ago, weatherbo said: Menards in MQT is asking people without masks to purchase one for .94 cents at the service counter, or leave the store. Huron Bakery in Ish had a sign that said "Wear a mask OR don't enter". Personally I hate wearing a mask. It feels unnatural to me and after a period of time, I get a weird feeling kinda like I can't take in a deep satisfying breath of air. I have pretty bad seasonal allergies so that's probably not helping. I don't foresee the masks going away anytime soon, tho. If anything I'm expecting another round of lock downs, which I think will be harder to enforce this time, since for most people outside of the metro areas, C-19 was a nothingburger. I do as well, and I'm not one of those that advocates mask as soon as you leave your house but moments in stores or in my case walking into work, I see no reason not to wear a mask. As you mention there could be more lock downs, I am hoping that people wear the masks more so that we don't get to that point and even if we do that we section off parts of the state that may spike up. Rather than the entire state, no need for massive lock downs up north if there are no cases and inherent social distancing by living so far apart. That is a good compromised middle ground. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Indiana governor announced there will be a pause on full reopening of bars and indoor dining until at least July 17. Indoor dining will remain at 75% and bars at 50% Good decision imo. You have to learn some things from other states, and at least these places are remaining open even though it's at reduced capacity. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purduewx80 Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 bUt DeAtHs aRe StIlL tRenDiNg DoWn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 It is going to get much worse especially as hospitals fill up again with the delay on deaths too those should start to rise within next week or so. Maybe not at the rate before but they will go up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purduewx80 Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 44 minutes ago, Stebo said: It is going to get much worse especially as hospitals fill up again with the delay on deaths too those should start to rise within next week or so. Maybe not at the rate before but they will go up. Already seeing that trend up in AZ and TX. FL and CA will probably follow shortly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 A quarter of today's new cases in Indiana are in Lake county, despite only having 7% of the state's population. Hopefully people are smart over the 4th of July weekend and have things outdoors to the greatest extent possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ovweather Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 I keep hearing the anti-shutdowns, anti-social distancing, and anti-mask crowd harp on the "fact" that it's all pointless because 50% of the population is eventually going to get the virus at some point until herd immunity is built, so why are we fighting the inevitable? Well, we know the answer to that and that is to keep hospitals from being overwhelmed as well as the hope of an effective vaccine in the near future. But those answers don't seem good enough for this crowd. So my solution is this: All the anti-shutdowns, anti-social distancing, and anti-mask crowd agree to be exposed to the virus right now. Since half of us are doomed to get it, why don't these people agree to be exposed to the virus right now to build herd immunity that much faster and to avoid potentially more devastation to the economy? How many of these people are brave enough and willing to put their money where their mouth is without knowing how their bodies are going to respond to the virus? My guess is very few have the guts to purposely be exposed in order to help speed herd immunity up, if herd immunity is even possible. Talk is cheap, and sadly cheap talk is one serious crisis that continues to plague this country in regards to many issues. The virus can keep being made political or we can all agree to work together and follow certain rules until a vaccine is available or the virus somehow magically disappears. Otherwise, things in this country are only going to continue to decline because of selfish, often irrational behavior. Once again, Covid is an example that nature is control, not us. We can fight it all we want, but we must play by nature's rules in regards to this virus or face the consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueWaves Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 On 6/29/2020 at 8:39 AM, Jonger said: I don't think the main debate is over masks. It's whether this virus is worth destroying lives over considering the risk to the population. I'm fine with the masks, this is about forcing businesses to close and limit their business in unsustainable ways. We have some states with nearly 25% unemployment right now. On 6/29/2020 at 9:59 PM, RobertSul said: People need to wear masks if that’s going to be the case. It’s such a simple thing that prevents spread AND helps the economy. It’s win-win for society. There shouldn’t be a cultural battle about this. On 7/1/2020 at 3:19 PM, ovweather said: All these anti-mask / my freedoms are being violated people need to wake up to the fact that we are not completely free to do as we wish here in the good ole USA, as they seem to suggest. Rules and laws of society are nothing new, so why all the hoopla about having to wear a mask in a public establishment? Indiana announced a new law today that it is now illegal to be driving while holding a cell phone. Why? Because it's a safety hazard to yourself and others around you! Wearing a mask is a safety device for you and those around you during a pandemic of a new virus strain we don't know much about yet. Wear a mask for the time being and STFU about having to do so. There's been a lot of good disco/posts in here this week. We've got Peeps on both ends of the "to mask or not to mask" spectrum, and a few like myself gravitating a little more towards a compromised middle-of-the-road sensible approach. I think the "wear a damn mask" crowd generally cites the stopping of exhaled water droplets (potentially containing attached C-19 virus compounds) as their #1 reasoning. And to be fair, it's a reasonable if not good argument as a way to help slow a spreading virus of anything (common flu included). There are, however, some general fallacies regarding various types of masks that really need to be looked at closer. These functional details are not often spoken of in any common reporting outlet I follow (online news, gov web sites, etc.). Maybe they're out there and I've just been missing them. Bottom line, per the following from someone's comment (on a y-tube vid), if masks are used improperly they can actually have their own illness inducing side-effects. We should all be aware of the limitations and recommended "best practices". Especially if we find them mandatory going into the autumn months. The knowledge of these mask design specifics leaves me personally right where I had landed prior = minimal duration mask wearing when indoors/unavoidable extended close proximity. Here's some OSHA data on various mask types/designs from a subject matter expert (who admittedly is not so keen on masks as being helpful to the cause): Quote Take this angle about masks, believe science, as they say. Mr. Kalani out with a little OSHA 101 for all those mask aficionados!! For all you mask wearers (especially those of you who think wearing it outside is NOT stupid). I know I’m about to burst your “google doctor degree” bubble, but here goes nothing. So Masks? I am OSHA 10&30 certified. I know some of you are too. I don’t really know why OSHA hasn’t come forward and stopped the nonsense BUT I want to cover 3 things • N95 masks and masks with exhale ports • surgical masks • filter or cloth masks. Okay, so upon further inspection, OSHA says some masks are okay and not okay in certain situations. If you’re working with fumes and aerosol chemicals and you give your employees the wrong masks and they get sick, you can be sued. • N95 masks: are designed for CONTAMINATED environments. That means when you exhale through N95 the design is that you are exhaling into contamination. The exhale from N95 masks are vented to breath straight out without filtration. They don’t filter the air on the way out. They don’t need to. Conclusion: if you’re in Target and the guy with Covid has a N95 mask, his covid breath is unfiltered being exhaled into Target (because it was designed for already contaminated environments, it’s not filtering your air on the way out). • Surgical Mask: these masks were designed and approved for STERILE environments. The amount of particles and contaminants in the outside and indoor environments where people are using and CLOGGING these masks very, VERY quickly. The moisture from your breath combined with the clogged mask will render it “useless”. IF you come in contact with Covid and your mask traps it, YOU become a walking virus dispenser. Everytime you put your mask on you are breathing the germs from EVERYWHERE you went. They should be changed or thrown out every “20-30 minutes in a non sterile environment.” • Cloth masks: I can’t even believe I’m having to explain this, but here it goes. Today, three people pointed to their masks as they walked by me entering Lowe’s. They said “ya gotta wear your mask BRO” I said very clearly “those masks don’t work bro, in fact they MAKE you sicker” they “pshh’d” me. By now hopefully you all know CLOTH masks do not filter anything. You mean the American flag one my aunt made? Yes. The one with sunflowers that looks so cute? Yes. The bandanna, the cut up t-shirt, the scarf ALL of them offer NO FILTERING whatsoever. As you exhale, you are ridding your lungs of contaminants and carbon dioxide. Cloth masks trap this carbon dioxide the best. It actually risks your health, rather than protect it. The moisture caught in these masks can become mildew ridden over night. Dry coughing, enhanced allergies, sore throat are all symptoms of a micro-mold in your mask. -Ultimate Answer: *N95 blows the virus into the air from a contaminated person. *The surgical mask is not designed for the outside world and will not filter the virus upon inhaling through it. It’s filtration works on the exhale, (Like a vacuum bag, it only works one way) but likely stops after 20 minutes, rendering it useless outside of a STERILE ENVIRONMENT (correct Becky, they don’t work in a bar, not even a little bit). *Cloth masks are WORSE than none. It’s equivalent to using a chain link fence to stop mosquitos. The CDC wants us to keep wearing masks. The masks don’t work. They’re being used to provide false comfort and push forward a specific agenda. For the love of God, research each mask’s designed use and purpose, I bet you will find NONE are used in the way of “viral defense.” Just like EVERY Flu season kids, wash your hands. Sanitize your hands. Don’t touch stuff. Sanitize your phone. Don’t touch people. And keep your distance. Why? Because your breath stinks, your deodorant is failing, your shoes are old and stink, that shirts not clean, & I like my space. Trust me I can hear you from here. Lots of reasons to keep your distance and work on body hygiene. But trust me, the masks do not work. *Occupational Safety & Hazard Association sited. The top American organization for safety. They regulate and educate asbestos workers, surgical rooms, you name it. I know, facts suck. They throw a wrench into the perfectly (seeming) packaged pill you are willingly swallowing. Facts make you have to form your OWN OPINION, instead of regurgitating someone else’s, and I know how uncomfortable that makes a lot of you. If your mask gives you security, by all means wear it. Just know it is a false sense of security and you shouldn’t shame anyone into partaking in such “conspiracies.” If select politicians stopped enforcing it, no one would continue this nonsense. Don’t drink the kool-aid and breathe a little better now that you know that much more about the good ol’ Facemask!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 I look at mask wearing as effectivity, no mask is 0% obviously, where as normal masks run you at least 70% to as much as 90%. I will take my chances with 70%-90%. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 10 minutes ago, RogueWaves said: There's been a lot of good disco/posts in here this week. We've got Peeps on both ends of the "to mask or not to mask" spectrum, and a few like myself gravitating a little more towards a compromised middle-of-the-road sensible approach. I think the "wear a damn mask" crowd generally cites the stopping of exhaled water droplets (potentially containing attached C-19 virus compounds) as their #1 reasoning. And to be fair, it's a reasonable if not good argument as a way to help slow a spreading virus of anything (common flu included). There are, however, some general fallacies regarding various types of masks that really need to be looked at closer. These functional details are not often spoken of in any common reporting outlet I follow (online news, gov web sites, etc.). Maybe they're out there and I've just been missing them. Bottom line, per the following from someone's comment (on a y-tube vid), if masks are used improperly they can actually have their own illness inducing side-effects. We should all be aware of the limitations and recommended "best practices". Especially if we find them mandatory going into the autumn months. The knowledge of these mask design specifics leaves me personally right where I had landed prior = minimal duration mask wearing when indoors/unavoidable extended close proximity. Here's some OSHA data on various mask types/designs from a subject matter expert (who admittedly is not so keen on masks as being helpful to the cause): I will respectfully disagree with someone who has an obvious bias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 10 minutes ago, RogueWaves said: There's been a lot of good disco/posts in here this week. We've got Peeps on both ends of the "to mask or not to mask" spectrum, and a few like myself gravitating a little more towards a compromised middle-of-the-road sensible approach. I think the "wear a damn mask" crowd generally cites the stopping of exhaled water droplets (potentially containing attached C-19 virus compounds) as their #1 reasoning. And to be fair, it's a reasonable if not good argument as a way to help slow a spreading virus of anything (common flu included). There are, however, some general fallacies regarding various types of masks that really need to be looked at closer. These functional details are not often spoken of in any common reporting outlet I follow (online news, gov web sites, etc.). Maybe they're out there and I've just been missing them. Bottom line, per the following from someone's comment (on a y-tube vid), if masks are used improperly they can actually have their own illness inducing side-effects. We should all be aware of the limitations and recommended "best practices". Especially if we find them mandatory going into the autumn months. The knowledge of these mask design specifics leaves me personally right where I had landed prior = minimal duration mask wearing when indoors/unavoidable extended close proximity. Here's some OSHA data on various mask types/designs from a subject matter expert (who admittedly is not so keen on masks as being helpful to the cause): Can you post the link to this? I want to find out more about this guy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueWaves Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 21 hours ago, Hoosier said: Indiana governor announced there will be a pause on full reopening of bars and indoor dining until at least July 17. Indoor dining will remain at 75% and bars at 50% Good decision imo. You have to learn some things from other states, and at least these places are remaining open even though it's at reduced capacity. I get that bar and restaurateurs are eager to get back into full capacity and balancing their budget sheets after suffering extensively, but I think keeping the 50% MAX capacity indoors is wise. If they have an option to increase outside dining with proper distancing during summer, good for them. Allow them that option. Spoke with a gent who built his own 9-hole golf course to run after retiring from civilian work. He told me he's down $13K in revenue this spring. Not sure what that means in percentage for his season, but he's a Mom and Pop type of operation and by the tone of his remark, it's significant. Crappy cold April/May sure didn't help his cause any either ofc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, Hoosier said: Can you post the link to this? I want to find out more about this guy. I could drop a meme in here but it is a bit too political lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 If this doesn't scare people I don't know what will. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueWaves Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, Hoosier said: Can you post the link to this? I want to find out more about this guy. So, as said, this is was a comment posted on a you-tube video. People rarely use their real names. The Mr. Kalani identified in the opening section could've been his real name or the poster had simply obtained it elsewhere; wasn't clear. I work in industry where PPE is frequently used during manufacturing processes and governed by OSHA regulations. Nothing written in that strikes me as suspect or wacko. It states the intended uses for certain mask types and their known limitations for any other purpose. Just making some more information available to take into consideration, that's all. This link is about some scientific studies about the efficacy of masks and respirators in preventing spread of viruses such as C-19. Hope that helps. https://technocracy.news/censored-a-review-of-science-relevant-to-covid-19-social-policy-and-why-face-masks-dont-work/ 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertSul Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 11 minutes ago, RogueWaves said: So, as said, this is was a comment posted on a you-tube video. People rarely use their real names. The Mr. Kalani identified in the opening section could've been his real name or the poster had simply obtained it elsewhere; wasn't clear. I work in industry where PPE is frequently used during manufacturing processes and governed by OSHA regulations. Nothing written in that strikes me as suspect or wacko. It states the intended uses for certain mask types and their known limitations for any other purpose. Just making some more information available to take into consideration, that's all. This link is about some scientific studies about the efficacy of masks and respirators in preventing spread of viruses such as C-19. Hope that helps. https://technocracy.news/censored-a-review-of-science-relevant-to-covid-19-social-policy-and-why-face-masks-dont-work/ Technocracy.news promotes the theory that vaccines cause autism. Hard pass. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 13 minutes ago, RogueWaves said: So, as said, this is was a comment posted on a you-tube video. People rarely use their real names. The Mr. Kalani identified in the opening section could've been his real name or the poster had simply obtained it elsewhere; wasn't clear. I work in industry where PPE is frequently used during manufacturing processes and governed by OSHA regulations. Nothing written in that strikes me as suspect or wacko. It states the intended uses for certain mask types and their known limitations for any other purpose. Just making some more information available to take into consideration, that's all. This link is about some scientific studies about the efficacy of masks and respirators in preventing spread of viruses such as C-19. Hope that helps. https://technocracy.news/censored-a-review-of-science-relevant-to-covid-19-social-policy-and-why-face-masks-dont-work/ I totally believe that some types of face coverings are better than others, and you have to know how to use them so you don't inadvertently infect yourself. It's harder to sell me on the idea that no type of face covering is ever effective. If that's the case, then there's no reason for hospital workers to ever wear masks. The info at your link looks a little long. Read part of it and may come back to it later. I will say that the guy complaining at the outset about censorship is not a good look, but that's beside the point. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 As testing becomes quicker and easier, you're obviously going to see more cases. I would strictly look at positive test rates and deaths. Is there really any usable data from simply looking at cases? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueWaves Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 34 minutes ago, Hoosier said: I totally believe that some types of face coverings are better than others, and you have to know how to use them so you don't inadvertently infect yourself. It's harder to sell me on the idea that no type of face covering is ever effective. If that's the case, then there's no reason for hospital workers to ever wear masks. The info at your link looks a little long. Read part of it and may come back to it later. I will say that the guy complaining at the outset about censorship is not a good look, but that's beside the point. While the author of the "OSHA 101" write-up could be taken as anti-mask, I think he/they were more so just giving Peeps a heads-up that many folks masking are not in touch with the proper use of them, nor the various ways they are (or are not) truly effective. Even prior to C-19 my local hospital's walk-in clinic asked anyone coming inside sick/coughing/contagious to grab one of those medical type masks and wear it while there to get checked out. It's a small closed in lobby, not well ventilated so that's always made sense to me. Certainly use them in similar situations but dispose of/wash them depending on their type in appropriate manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueWaves Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 24 minutes ago, Jonger said: As testing becomes quicker and easier, you're obviously going to see more cases. I would strictly look at positive test rates and deaths. Is there really any usable data from simply looking at cases? Agree, total "positives" means little since we've been aware since day 1 many carriers weren't sick, or sick enough, to warrant a test. Personally, I've always focused on the fatalities (against a typical flu season and other historical outbreaks) more than cases. Obviously, the more that test (+) and don't succumb or even fall seriously ill, the lower that over all death rate gets. Thru selective/limited testing the numbers looked horrible scary ofc. It will be very interesting to see where this ends up when all is said and done (if someone ever publishes an update of this): 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueWaves Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 53 minutes ago, RobertSul said: Technocracy.news promotes the theory that vaccines cause autism. Hard pass. Sooo, in your mind, since they got that wrong they get everything wrong?? "Even a broken clock is right twice a day." One of our fave sayings around here, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueWaves Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Stebo said: If this doesn't scare people I don't know what will. My older sister and hubby were expected in state for a sibling's (delayed by 'rona) funeral/burial. She's 70+ with recent other health battles so to me they are right in their concerns. No need to tempt fate when that's your situation. Sucks, and they'll be missed by the rest of us, but fully understood too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertSul Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 1 hour ago, RogueWaves said: Sooo, in your mind, since they got that wrong they get everything wrong?? "Even a broken clock is right twice a day." One of our fave sayings around here, lol. I mean, you’re right that I shouldn’t base an entire website on a few pieces of faulty news (another look shows they don’t believe that CO2 is a greenhouse gas), but also the fact that surgeons always wear masks at the operating table lends credence to their effectiveness. There’ve also been many anecdotes of entire floors of hospital staff wearing masks and having a very low infection rate compared with staff on separate floors who didn’t wear masks and had a high infection rate. Also, Japan hasn’t been hit as hard despite how urbanized/densely populated/advanced aged of a country they are - which has been attributable to them being a very mask-friendly society. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purduewx80 Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 2 hours ago, Stebo said: If this doesn't scare people I don't know what will. We already learned in the NE that reacting to sharp rises in cases means any mask or shutdown measures are too little, too late. Now is the part where pre symptomatic or asymptomatic people are infecting their friends and families. The longer we keep making these mistakes, the longer it will take to get back to business “as usual”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 2 hours ago, RobertSul said: I mean, you’re right that I shouldn’t base an entire website on a few pieces of faulty news (another look shows they don’t believe that CO2 is a greenhouse gas), but also the fact that surgeons always wear masks at the operating table lends credence to their effectiveness. There’ve also been many anecdotes of entire floors of hospital staff wearing masks and having a very low infection rate compared with staff on separate floors who didn’t wear masks and had a high infection rate. Also, Japan hasn’t been hit as hard despite how urbanized/densely populated/advanced aged of a country they are - which has been attributable to them being a very mask-friendly society. Japanese have low prevalence of heart disease, diabetes and obesity in general. As someone in the science field, do you really think that's apples to apples? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 10 minutes ago, Jonger said: Japanese have low prevalence of heart disease, diabetes and obesity in general. As someone in the science field, do you really think that's apples to apples? Good health obviously helps but they have much higher population density than most of this country outside of a handful of ZIP codes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Stebo said: Good health obviously helps but they have much higher population density than most of this country outside of a handful of ZIP codes. The mask culture plus amazing health compared to our population..... add those up and that's more than likely 95% of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Jonger said: The mask culture plus amazing health compared to our population..... add those up and that's more than likely 95% of it. Maybe for mortality rate, but catch rate this is still contagious the same way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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