Coronavirus

[Stebo]

3 hours ago, Hoosier said:

Masks aren't required at your airport?  My aunt recently flew out of Midway and said that masks are required there (though she is a tad flaky so I'm not sure if she's right lol) and I know Michigan has been one of the stricter states in general.

I mean they may be required but that doesn't mean people are wearing them 100%.

[Stebo]

2 hours ago, nwohweather said:

The argument isn’t that it’s bad, it’s that is it worth the cost? How do you explain total shutdowns to someone like my mom who had to fire almost everyone at her hotel in Vegas. Foreclosures are shooting up to an insane amount which is going to drive up crime as well. Is it worth going to extreme measures to prevent what is mostly elderly death.

I don’t have the answer but it’s not as cut and dry as Stebo thinks. Sorry man but meteorologists aren’t getting laid off in this and you should understand that

Yeah they are... and that shouldn't be the deciding factor of safety anyways. I am tired of hearing that we need to save the money no matter what.

[Stebo]

1 hour ago, Chicago Storm said:

Because Orangeman isn’t taking it seriously. That is the main problem.


.

It is really that simple. People see him doing nothing and follow right along ignorantly.

[nwohweather]

Yeah they are... and that shouldn't be the deciding factor of safety anyways. I am tired of hearing that we need to save the money no matter what.

It doesn’t matter what you think lol it’s an honest issue. “Good luck feeding your kids and paying that mortgage Bob, but we’ve gotta lay you off.” Hell I am in a spot now where my cost savings have to match our sales decline or else people will probably lose their jobs. Not an easy burden when we could probably just mandate masks nationally and open everything up saving millions of people’s financial livelihood. Going to be a lot of people who have to rebuild their entire life after this

[Stebo]

6 hours ago, nwohweather said:

It doesn’t matter what you think lol it’s an honest issue. “Good luck feeding your kids and paying that mortgage Bob, but we’ve gotta lay you off.” Hell I am in a spot now where my cost savings have to match our sales decline or else people will probably lose their jobs. Not an easy burden when we could probably just mandate masks nationally and open everything up saving millions of people’s financial livelihood. Going to be a lot of people who have to rebuild their entire life after this

Because of gross negligence by our federal government. Also by selfish behavior by people who either think that this is nothing or listen to the feds without doing any research.

[purduewx80]

This thread about how masks prevent droplets from escaping during speech is wonderful. It's all hard science, easy to follow and not anecdotal.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1274036544387477504.html

[Jonger]

This is going to destroy our way of live just to give people with 1 foot in the grave a bit of extra time on earth.

I'm in Mackinaw city right now, it's clear that half of these businesses are going to be completely put out of business. This is just a small view into what's going to happen if we keep going with these restrictions.

Total lockdown works in some cultures and places, but it won't work here. Almost nobody wears a mask outside once you venture away from larger cities.

Just let it rip and let's build herd immunity and move on. Some people will still wear masks and stay home, but most won't. Truthfully, I would be shocked if I didn't contract it myself already.

[RobertSul]

33 minutes ago, Jonger said:

This is going to destroy our way of live just to give people with 1 foot in the grave a bit of extra time on earth.

I'm in Mackinaw city right now, it's clear that half of these businesses are going to be completely put out of business. This is just a small view into what's going to happen if we keep going with these restrictions.

Total lockdown works in some cultures and places, but it won't work here. Almost nobody wears a mask outside once you venture away from larger cities.

Just let it rip and let's build herd immunity and move on. Some people will still wear masks and stay home, but most won't. Truthfully, I would be shocked if I didn't contract it myself already.

Florida and Texas just had to shut down bars; the biggest hospital in Texas is at ICU capacity and they’re expecting it to be unsustainable in the coming weeks, which will lead to more deaths among not-so-susceptible portions of the population who would’ve survived with treatment. 
 

If 95% of people wore masks, not only would this get stamped out to the point that hospitals won’t get overwhelmed, but businesses would increasingly attract more frivolous spending among the population. You can’t force people to go out and consume if they feel unsafe. By diminishing the chance of spread, you’re also increasing consumer confidence to spend. 

[purduewx80]

37 minutes ago, RobertSul said:

Florida and Texas just had to shut down bars; the biggest hospital in Texas is at ICU capacity and they’re expecting it to be unsustainable in the coming weeks, which will lead to more deaths among not-so-susceptible portions of the population who would’ve survived with treatment. 
 

If 95% of people wore masks, not only would this get stamped out to the point that hospitals won’t get overwhelmed, but businesses would increasingly attract more frivolous spending among the population. You can’t force people to go out and consume if they feel unsafe. By diminishing the chance of spread, you’re also increasing consumer confidence to spend. 

Unabridged capitalism and our modern “need” for immediacy will obviously not work with everything going on. There may be some happy medium between short-sighted open-everything-now and careful, long-term planning to get us through all this, but we can’t just assume a vaccine that doesn’t exist yet or herd immunity are going to work. There’s a shit ton we still don’t know about it. 
 

I’d loooove to know how many of the people in favor of letting old folks die consider themselves pro-life. 

[nwohweather]

Unabridged capitalism and our modern “need” for immediacy will obviously not work with everything going on. There may be some happy medium between short-sighted open-everything-now and careful, long-term planning to get us through all this, but we can’t just assume a vaccine that doesn’t exist yet or herd immunity are going to work. There’s a shit ton we still don’t know about it. 
 
I’d loooove to know how many of the people in favor of letting old folks die consider themselves pro-life. 

Unabridged capitalism always works. It’s why we have an economy worth $21.5 Trillion, 25% of the entire world’s economy with 5% of its population. There’s really no safety net for small businesses as you have to have outputs, and that’s what is going wrong here. I know this is a left leaning forum but I can’t deny the education I’ve gotten since earning a business degree in college, it’s staggering to see the raw efficiency in our country as opposed to Europe.

But living in wide open Charleston I’m gonna tell you by and large no one cares about this pandemic. Just tons of vacationers are flocking these states, crowding places and taking a vacation from wearing a mask. I’m interested to see if a national law would work, it’d help us out down here a lot.

[wisconsinwx]

2 hours ago, Jonger said:

This is going to destroy our way of live just to give people with 1 foot in the grave a bit of extra time on earth.

I'm in Mackinaw city right now, it's clear that half of these businesses are going to be completely put out of business. This is just a small view into what's going to happen if we keep going with these restrictions.

Total lockdown works in some cultures and places, but it won't work here. Almost nobody wears a mask outside once you venture away from larger cities.

Just let it rip and let's build herd immunity and move on. Some people will still wear masks and stay home, but most won't. Truthfully, I would be shocked if I didn't contract it myself already.

If only that was clearly the case but not everyone who dies (far from it) have one foot in the grave.  Just having a comorbidity does not constitute having a foot in the grave, especially if you’re young.

[Jonger]

1 hour ago, purduewx80 said:

Unabridged capitalism and our modern “need” for immediacy will obviously not work with everything going on. There may be some happy medium between short-sighted open-everything-now and careful, long-term planning to get us through all this, but we can’t just assume a vaccine that doesn’t exist yet or herd immunity are going to work. There’s a shit ton we still don’t know about it. 
 

I’d loooove to know how many of the people in favor of letting old folks die consider themselves pro-life. 

My grandmother died in 2007 after she developed a nasty cold.

She was 93. 

This is political in 2020 and that cold probably had a legit virus or bacterial cause.... just saying.

[RogueWaves]

On 6/26/2020 at 11:52 AM, frostfern said:

The downward trend in Michigan is over :(.  

I think it was/is expected when restrictions are loosened.

On 6/26/2020 at 1:33 PM, frostfern said:

The sad thing is some places in the world have managed to keep numbers low without hanging a threat of destitution on millions.  The barrier to management in the US is ideological.

Our state likes the destitution route tho.

On 6/26/2020 at 6:30 PM, Jonger said:

I haven't worn one in weeks. Crunched the numbers and just feel like a dolt considering the fact that it's a big nothingburger where I live.

This thing kills 90 year old nursing home residents and not very many of them at that. 

I wore one a few times when in Detroit and close by. 

Did the same in the beginning and decided the risks were no where near the "fear porn" being sold to the general public at the time. After reports came out from Italy and other places that the numbers were being way over-blown since every death was being attributed to C-19 whether it was the primary cause or not, it was even more impossible to "buy the numbers". Having said this, I know I am in the minority here. Nonetheless, I'm not totally clueless and stupid either. I've kept my eye on "the threat" just like I did on the storms the other night. I took appropriate action when I knew the threat was legit and heading my way and would do the same for C-19. Admittedly, I live a pretty quiet lifestyle compared to some. I'm not young and single hanging out at bars or other high transmission risk scenarios. But my neighbor works at the hospital every day and I chat with him frequently. I'm still waiting to personally know somebody who knew someone who died or was even seriously sick with C-19. That's not a statement of "blindness to the situation". It's merely a stated fact. I was told there's a huge bad storm coming for me, but unlike Friday night, I can't see lightning or hear distant rumbles of thunder to confirm it's true. I don't trouble my fam to hit the basement for a d3 TOR threat. I've said it before, I think there's been way too much fear-mongering during this outbreak and it's paralyzing.

[RogueWaves]

1 hour ago, purduewx80 said:

Unabridged capitalism and our modern “need” for immediacy will obviously not work with everything going on. There may be some happy medium between short-sighted open-everything-now and careful, long-term planning to get us through all this, but we can’t just assume a vaccine that doesn’t exist yet or herd immunity are going to work. There’s a shit ton we still don’t know about it. 
 

I’d loooove to know how many of the people in favor of letting old folks die consider themselves pro-life. 

Since you baited..

How about starting with a poll of governors and their admins who decided it was "best option at the time" to force known C-19 ill patients back into LTC facilities full of otherwise uninfected elderly instead of isolating them as would be proper. 

[Jonger]

Let's see the unemployment figures once the cash runs out.

[nwohweather]

37 minutes ago, RogueWaves said:

Since you baited..
How about starting with a poll of governors and their admins who decided it was "best option at the time" to force known C-19 ill patients back into LTC facilities full of otherwise uninfected elderly instead of isolating them as would be proper. 

One thing to consider as well are the legal ramifications. Our governor here in SC and attorney general said they cannot impose any legal mask law and will not shut anything down again because of potential lawsuits.

I believe the state of Ohio is being sued by all of the daycares in the state for their laws and the belief is that the daycares will win.

You all have to realize by closing anything you are declaring people's work illegal. That sets up an interesting legal battle that could result in the states losing millions

[Guest ovweather]

48 minutes ago, nwohweather said:

One thing to consider as well are the legal ramifications. Our governor here in SC and attorney general said they cannot impose any legal mask law and will not shut anything down again because of potential lawsuits.

I believe the state of Ohio is being sued by all of the daycares in the state for their laws and the belief is that the daycares will win.

You all have to realize by closing anything you are declaring people's work illegal. That sets up an interesting legal battle that could result in the states losing millions

One thing is for sure and that is this pandemic has only created more divide in America, as if we needed a wider gap. Now that racism and discrimination have been totally resurrected, we have stepped back into the early 1960’s in regards to those issues.

I often wonder who is worse, the actual government or we the people who elect the government officials without caring a thing about their ethics other than if they are a republican or democrat. This country has serious moral and ethical problems it refuses to address logically. Instead, we hide behind are illogical political and religious ideologies / beliefs that ultimately solve nothing.

[RogueWaves]

2 hours ago, nwohweather said:

Unabridged capitalism always works. It’s why we have an economy worth $21.5 Trillion, 25% of the entire world’s economy with 5% of its population. There’s really no safety net for small businesses as you have to have outputs, and that’s what is going wrong here. I know this is a left leaning forum but I can’t deny the education I’ve gotten since earning a business degree in college, it’s staggering to see the raw efficiency in our country as opposed to Europe.

But living in wide open Charleston I’m gonna tell you by and large no one cares about this pandemic. Just tons of vacationers are flocking these states, crowding places and taking a vacation from wearing a mask. I’m interested to see if a national law would work, it’d help us out down here a lot.

Thank you for putting up those numbers. I'm still waiting for the utopian example of socialism on the global scene. And I don't mean some low-density N. European country playing socialism while their lifestyle would shout otherwise.

Ofc you know it's also peak tourist season up here and when I was north a week ago there were tons of out of state plates. Not quite as convenient for the New Englanders to head this way but you'd be surprised how many Maryland plates you see here in the "3rd Coast" state.

[RogueWaves]

On 6/26/2020 at 5:52 PM, Hoosier said:

I guess I don't understand why the mask thing has become a big deal.  People act like it's some massive infringement.  Yes, it's inconvenient and uncomfortable especially when worn for a long time, but I look at it as a temporary measure to try to get us through this period of time.  I'll change my tune if the mask rules become a permanent thing, but for now, just going to deal with it.   

Part of me said "hey, some occupations routinely require PPE, so this isn't much different than if I were in one of those". Had my state's governor re-assured us this was for a defined period of weeks to "flatten the curve" and allow our free-market society to continue to function versus shutting it down, I would have been much less adverse to it. Instead, the approach of dictatorship was a huge red flag for someone who does not believe that "big government" (let alone global government) has my best interest at heart nor any concern for my human rights as an individual. Trust 'em with an inch and they'll likely be back to take your mile as well.

We've had two pandemics ('57 and '68) that were 600% more deadly and society was not shut down for either.

[cyclone77]

We've been wearing masks 8+hrs a day at work the last 2 1/2 months, so throwing on a mask to run into a store quick is no biggie to me.  Hopefully someday we won't need to wear them, but that looks to be a long way off.

[RogueWaves]

19 hours ago, HillsdaleMIWeather said:

This. I work in a grocery store five days a week and we just opened up the bottle room, their "individual freedom" doesn't give me or any of us a choice. 

Look, I'm not responding because I wish to trivialize yours or anyone's concerns of catching C-19 or any unpleasant sickness spread in society. People likely wouldn't understand fears I have. I will say tho, that in all these months of shopping I've not had one single cashier or other store worker even give me a look of disdain for not wearing a mask. There's a woman at my local supermarket who is like "the boss lady" with a lot of years working there and seniority. She is there constantly morning noon and night I see her working. I asked her if she was tired of the whole masking deal. She told me she was so over it and would not be wearing one if management wasn't dictating such. She's no youngster either. Guessing 50's to maybe even 60 so leaning higher risk end of the spectrum.

[RogueWaves]

7 minutes ago, cyclone77 said:

We've been wearing masks 8+hrs a day at work the last 2 1/2 months, so throwing on a mask to run into a store quick is no biggie to me.  Hopefully someday we won't need to wear them, but that looks to be a long way off.

I like the fact that people are using hand sanitizer, washing more often, and keeping shopping carts, card swipe machines, etc disinfected. These are common sense public place hygiene practices that quite frankly our culture has been sorely lax with for years. This should've been SOP for decades, especially for any establishment related to food prep and service. I'm pretty disgusted if I approach an entry door to an eatery (fast food or otherwise) and notice tons of hand smears all over the glass and the handle looks like it's never been cleaned in it's existence. Talk about a germ/bacteria/virus transmitter in full effect!

As for current pandemic "threat" and donning a mask. I'm ok with the idea if you have to be in close confines with a stranger for any length of time not just passing them. Such as sitting in a chair to get my hair cut. When eating and drinking you can't keep it on anyways, so bars and eateries best avenue is just spacing tables apart. Since I'm not a fan of over-crowded rowdy pubs I guess that's actually the ideal side-effect for me personally. 

 

[Stebo]

All this bleating about the economy is pointless. The argument is about wearing a mask, if you want to bring the economy up and why stuff is remaining closed, it is because people refuse to wear masks causing us not to relax the curve. It is really simple, wear a damn mask.

[RogueWaves]

6 hours ago, Jonger said:

This is going to destroy our way of live just to give people with 1 foot in the grave a bit of extra time on earth.

I'm in Mackinaw city right now, it's clear that half of these businesses are going to be completely put out of business. This is just a small view into what's going to happen if we keep going with these restrictions.

Total lockdown works in some cultures and places, but it won't work here. Almost nobody wears a mask outside once you venture away from larger cities.

Just let it rip and let's build herd immunity and move on. Some people will still wear masks and stay home, but most won't. Truthfully, I would be shocked if I didn't contract it myself already.

Folks much better educated and trained in human immunology than self have gone on record stating that our immune system actually weakens and our resistance drops as we isolate from exposure to societal "stuff". The isolation thing is a stall tactic at best, but eventually if it finds you, your immunity strength will be key. I've personally had a compromised immune system back in the 90's and suffered a great illness so I've been cognizant of that in my daily lifestyle wrt changing my habits to an extreme.

I'd love to think I could pin my hopes on some vaccine too, but with the history of those doing as much harm as good (in some cases much more harm than good - see 1976 flu vaccine horrors for example), there's no guarantee that would be a viable option to herd immunity either. As usual tho, we want big pharma to produce another magic bullet. Why don't we consider alternative approaches like building people's natural defense to ward off the viral intruder? Wouldn't it be great if there were highly educated people eagerly preparing such an option?  

2 hours ago, Jonger said:

Let's see the unemployment figures once the cash runs out.

If you're out of work, you're out of work and have probably filed for benefits so you'd be in the 21% unemployed attm. Unless you are referring to private contractor types that are self-employed and thus not really part of the whole UIA system in the first place. 

[Stebo]

[RogueWaves]

7 minutes ago, Stebo said:

All this bleating about the economy is pointless. The argument is about wearing a mask, if you want to bring the economy up and why stuff is remaining closed, it is because people refuse to wear masks causing us not to relax the curve. It is really simple, wear a damn mask.

Whether you're personally in a position to accept it or not, there are many points to be made about the economic impact of C-19. Many here have been doing just that and what gives you the right to bully them not to continue to do so? Economically depressed lives matter! To some, that may be their only reality of this entire historical episode. But they can't comment? Now they have to forfeit that freedom of opinion as well? Perhaps you should hand over your next two paychecks to someone who's been put out of work by this to better understand the perspective.

[Hoosier]

I agree in not putting all the hope in a vaccine.  I mean, I think there will be one or multiple, but we have no idea how effective it will be.  It would be nice to get one that is wildly successful but it would be wise to keep expectations in check.

Look at what has been learned in the past several months.  Not rushing to intubate people even if their oxygen levels are shockingly low, a couple preexisting drugs that reduce hospital stay/mortality to some extent, etc.  Even among the people who have comorbidities/are older, they are in a better position to survive than they were several months ago.  And in a few more months, perhaps they will be even more likely to survive than they would be right now, before any potential vaccine.     

[Guest ovweather]

I like how being politely asked to wear a mask is (to some) somehow having their human rights stepped all over. Sheesh, wearing a mask isn’t that big of a deal, people. Doctors and surgeons in hospitals wear them all day long and have been for decades. You don’t complain about having to wear clothes and shoes in public, so why a freaking mask during a new virus pandemic we are still learning about? All this “my human rights are being violated” garbage is just despicable verbiage.

[Stebo]

56 minutes ago, RogueWaves said:

Whether you're personally in a position to accept it or not, there are many points to be made about the economic impact of C-19. Many here have been doing just that and what gives you the right to bully them not to continue to do so? Economically depressed lives matter! To some, that may be their only reality of this entire historical episode. But they can't comment? Now they have to forfeit that freedom of opinion as well? Perhaps you should hand over your next two paychecks to someone who's been put out of work by this to better understand the perspective.

When they are speaking out about not wearing masks they are talking out of both sides of their mouths. "Oh the economy but I will do nothing to help slow the spread"

[Jonger]

This has little to do with the masks for me. This about limiting business activity and injecting fear into society for something very few need to fear.