Coronavirus

[nwohweather]

Of course (unfortunately) it’s hard to argue with what you’re saying, based on how our country is currently structured ..but my view all along is that the pandemic is exposing the toxic “every man for themselves” culture in the US, where people are pitted against each other for the sake of “the economy”, against the greater good. 
 
Sure, it leads to a greater GDP and a lot of wealth...but people and small community/local businesses shouldn’t need to make the difficult decision to risk getting sick for the sake of the economy. 
 
We must have something good come out of this pandemic, for the cohesiveness of our society and so people look out for each other and look out for the greater good. For example, paid sick leave, better value health care, paid paternal and maternal leave, etc. We must stop fighting ruthlessly against each other, and stop the idea that we must out do someone else in order to better ourselves.  The American individualist ideal is tiresome and, combined with the toxicity of technology and social media, has led us to where we are today. 

Unfortunately companies don’t work like this. We pulled our entire business services (ex. things like accounts payable) from Canada due to their high regulations and what not to relocate some into Mississippi and most into the country of Colombia. Now I completely understand raising tax rates on the wealthy as they’re mostly anchored to a nation, but regulations are tough because companies are smart and can work around them.

Multinational companies run things anymore, not countries, so while I’d agree that some of those safety nets would be nice, large companies will simply go where the labor is cheaper and capable, net more money, and beat up the competition that isn’t doing so.

[hardypalmguy]

Unfortunately companies don’t work like this. We pulled our entire business services (ex. things like accounts payable) from Canada due to their high regulations and what not to relocate some into Mississippi and most into the country of Colombia. Now I completely understand raising tax rates on the wealthy as they’re mostly anchored to a nation, but regulations are tough because companies are smart and can work around them.

Multinational companies run things anymore, not countries, so while I’d agree that some of those safety nets would be nice, large companies will simply go where the labor is cheaper and capable, net more money, and beat up the competition that isn’t doing so.

So what do we do so we aren’t left with two classes. Very poor peasants and a few rich elite?


.

[King James]

So what do we do so we aren’t left with two classes. Very poor peasants and a few rich elite?


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Become as self sufficient as possible. Stop participating in the consumption

[hardypalmguy]

Become as self sufficient as possible. Stop participating in the consumption

Kind of hard when even if you own your home with no mortgage you have fixed utilities and taxes that will never go away. I think property taxes are one of the taxes that need to go away. Once you own it — it’s yours forever or until you sell it.


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[King James]

Kind of hard when even if you own your home with no mortgage you have fixed utilities and taxes that will never go away. I think property taxes are one of the taxes that need to go away. Once you own it — it’s yours forever or until you sell it.


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Preaching to the choir on that one my man

[Hoosier]

Daily hospitalizations went up in the week of May 17-23 after trending down prior to that.  Not a good sign, and it could mean that deaths sort of plateau if not rise sometime in June especially if we get another week or two of this.

[RyanDe680]

The only reason that the national numbers have plateaued is because New York is in decline while the rest of the country seems to be stable to increasing. 
 

well. Excluding South Carolina of course. 

[Jonger]

On 5/23/2020 at 1:22 PM, Hoosier said:

My uncle's friend died from the virus.  55 years old and according to my uncle, no underlying health conditions.

Unfortunately it wouldn't surprise me if we get to the point where most of us know or know of someone who got seriously ill or died from it.

My entire county of 190,000 people has only seen 390 confirmed cased, with 26 deaths -- mostly elderly hospice patients or from nursing homes. 

I'm feeling pretty confident heading out without a mask or giving a damn one way or another. 

Our county admin is trying to reclassify our risk level with the governor due to the stats I posted above. They currently have us lumped in with metro Detroit.

[Hoosier]

Beaches in Indiana were packed this weekend.  And I called the bolded like 2 months ago, lol

 

PORTER COUNTY, Ind. (WLS) -- Thousands of people packed the Indiana beaches Sunday and the park rangers at the Indiana Dunes National Park is expecting more of the same Monday.

"Yesterday was insane," beachgoer Chris Tsampis said. "I have not seen it like that unless it was on the 4th of July honestly."

Tsampis said he and his brother left the Porter Beach because it was just too crowded.
 

"We came on motorcycles and it was backed up four to five miles so we ended up just leaving and going to Michigan City for a bite to eat," he said. "Most of them were Illinois license plates. Makes sense. From Chicago probably."

John Pierre Anderson, a supervisory ranger of the Indiana Dunes National Park said his team expected the rush, but managing those large crowds during a pandemic was overwhelming.

"Oh my. Definitely thousands of people. Our big concern was that they just were not social distancing at all," Anderson said.

Anderson and his team do their best to remind people of the social distancing guidelines while on the beach that stretches 15 miles across the dunes state and national parks.

Rangers say dozens of cars were parked illegally because the spots were all full.

 

"It was crazy," Anderson said. "A lot of people out here. Parking lots filled by 9 a.m.

https://abc7chicago.com/illinois-coronavirus-indiana-wisconsin-beaches/6210385/

[Guest ovweather]

2 hours ago, Hoosier said:

Beaches in Indiana were packed this weekend.  And I called the bolded like 2 months ago, lol

 

PORTER COUNTY, Ind. (WLS) -- Thousands of people packed the Indiana beaches Sunday and the park rangers at the Indiana Dunes National Park is expecting more of the same Monday.

"Yesterday was insane," beachgoer Chris Tsampis said. "I have not seen it like that unless it was on the 4th of July honestly."

Tsampis said he and his brother left the Porter Beach because it was just too crowded.
 

"We came on motorcycles and it was backed up four to five miles so we ended up just leaving and going to Michigan City for a bite to eat," he said. "Most of them were Illinois license plates. Makes sense. From Chicago probably."

John Pierre Anderson, a supervisory ranger of the Indiana Dunes National Park said his team expected the rush, but managing those large crowds during a pandemic was overwhelming.

"Oh my. Definitely thousands of people. Our big concern was that they just were not social distancing at all," Anderson said.

Anderson and his team do their best to remind people of the social distancing guidelines while on the beach that stretches 15 miles across the dunes state and national parks.

Rangers say dozens of cars were parked illegally because the spots were all full.

 

"It was crazy," Anderson said. "A lot of people out here. Parking lots filled by 9 a.m.

https://abc7chicago.com/illinois-coronavirus-indiana-wisconsin-beaches/6210385/

Going to be interesting how the next 4 weeks go nationwide now that most areas are opening back up (and obviously some people are giving the middle finger to wearing a mask / practicing social distancing). Hopefully, a rapid increase in new cases doesn’t come and we can start to breath easier (for now). Let’s also not forget, still so much about the virus we don’t know as it’s still so new. Now is not the time to be saying “fu*k it, I’ll take my chances because I’m bored being stuck at home.”

[nwohweather]

13 hours ago, ovweather said:

Going to be interesting how the next 4 weeks go nationwide now that most areas are opening back up (and obviously some people are giving the middle finger to wearing a mask / practicing social distancing). Hopefully, a rapid increase in new cases doesn’t come and we can start to breath easier (for now). Let’s also not forget, still so much about the virus we don’t know as it’s still so new. Now is not the time to be saying “fu*k it, I’ll take my chances because I’m bored being stuck at home.”

Hopefully we do see an increase in cases as that means more people are getting tests. I was reading something by Nate Silver where it seems as though now we have an abundance of tests but people are not caring to do them. I mean heck if folks are politicizing and protesting against mask wearing, I can't feel as though they would be all that willing to subject to a test. If anything with all of these crazy rules I cannot see why it isn't required that all people must get a test once a month. It's concerning we seem more hellbent on keeping things closed than actually doing things to address issues (mandating a mask in all stores, mandating a test once a month)

[Stebo]

40 minutes ago, nwohweather said:

Hopefully we do see an increase in cases as that means more people are getting tests. I was reading something by Nate Silver where it seems as though now we have an abundance of tests but people are not caring to do them. I mean heck if folks are politicizing and protesting against mask wearing, I can't feel as though they would be all that willing to subject to a test. If anything with all of these crazy rules I cannot see why it isn't required that all people must get a test once a month. It's concerning we seem more hellbent on keeping things closed than actually doing things to address issues (mandating a mask in all stores, mandating a test once a month)

It is the people who don't want to wear a mask and don't want to take a test causing the delays in opening. They are careless egotistical assholes.

[RyanDe680]

34 minutes ago, Stebo said:

It is the people who don't want to wear a mask and don't want to take a test causing the delays in opening. They are careless egotistical assholes.

 +1  

 

[CoachLB]

You 80’s kids should’ve eaten more dirt. Maybe you wouldn’t be so scared. 

[Guest ovweather]

2 hours ago, nwohweather said:

Hopefully we do see an increase in cases as that means more people are getting tests. I was reading something by Nate Silver where it seems as though now we have an abundance of tests but people are not caring to do them. I mean heck if folks are politicizing and protesting against mask wearing, I can't feel as though they would be all that willing to subject to a test. If anything with all of these crazy rules I cannot see why it isn't required that all people must get a test once a month. It's concerning we seem more hellbent on keeping things closed than actually doing things to address issues (mandating a mask in all stores, mandating a test once a month)

I agree. If wearing a mask is such a crime against the constitution as it's taking away one's freedom and liberty (as these people seem to suggest), then this thing is never going away. Indeed, these are the same people who will refuse a test and a vaccine because it is violating their freedoms. I swear, I think some of these people would rather die from the virus then be forced into complying with short-term rules. These people need to quit the whole self-entitlement bs. They're not special, nor immune to the consequences of ignoring rules.

[King James]

I agree. If wearing a mask is such a crime against the constitution as it's taking away one's freedom and liberty (as these people seem to suggest), then this thing is never going away. Indeed, these are the same people who will refuse a test and a vaccine because it is violating their freedoms. I swear, I think some of these people would rather die from the virus then be forced into complying with short-term rules. These people need to quit the whole self-entitlement bs. They're not special, nor immune to the consequences of ignoring rules.

It appears a good majority of us have simply continued on with life. We are not special.

Find love in your heart my man. We are all free to roam this earth as we choose. Different view points and all

[wisconsinwx]

23 minutes ago, ovweather said:

I agree. If wearing a mask is such a crime against the constitution as it's taking away one's freedom and liberty (as these people seem to suggest), then this thing is never going away. Indeed, these are the same people who will refuse a test and a vaccine because it is violating their freedoms. I swear, I think some of these people would rather die from the virus then be forced into complying with short-term rules. These people need to quit the whole self-entitlement bs. They're not special, nor immune to the consequences of ignoring rules.

A lot of them are the older generation, who figure they'd rather live a free rest of their life than have a year or two of strict policies when they may not have that many years longer to enjoy their lives.  I understand both the high caution sentiment and the cavalier sentiment, the truth is we should be looking somewhere in between.  People should not be uptight about no masks and moderate crowds outdoors, it's indoors where people should be really concerned (especially in heavy breathing/talking environments).

[Guest ovweather]

1 hour ago, King James said:

It appears a good majority of us have simply continued on with life. We are not special.

Find love in your heart my man. We are all free to roam this earth as we choose. Different view points and all

People can continue on with life just fine wearing a mask in public places, if need be, especially when it’s done out of common courtesy for fellow man. Even with the strict lockdowns, most people were still free. I know I was, even in my state were the governor was hung in effigy by the 3 percenters who felt slighted because of restrictions. So what, people couldn’t hit a bar, go to a movie, or travel for a few months. The horror. I really wasn’t too upset I was “inconvenienced” for a few months. Sh*t happens, life goes on. We learn from it. It’s just in today’s world some people throw hissy fits when they feel cheated in someway. We live in a country that already has many rules and laws in place to keep order and obedience. What’s a few more, like wearing a mask and getting tested, in the short-term to combat a virus we are still learning about?

[King James]

People can continue on with life just fine wearing a mask in public places, if need be, especially when it’s done out of common courtesy for fellow man. Even with the strict lockdowns, most people were still free. I know I was, even in my state were the governor was hung in effigy by the 3 percenters who felt slighted because of restrictions. So what, people couldn’t hit a bar, go to a movie, or travel for a few months. The horror. I really wasn’t too upset I was “inconvenienced” for a few months. Sh*t happens, life goes on. We learn from it. It’s just in today’s world some people throw hissy fits when they feel cheated in someway. We live in a country that already has many rules and laws in place to keep order and obedience. What’s a few more, like wearing a mask and getting tested, in the short-term to combat a virus we are still learning about?

Can’t get on board with that. But that’s okay. We are free to go our own ways. Be tolerant

[weatherbo]

There have been 104 confirmed cases in the entire UP.  MOST of the 10 deaths(13 total up-wide) in Marquette county have been at a nursing home, as well as a good deal of the confirmed cases in general. I will wear a mask where required, but other than that I am living my life and enjoying my freedoms.  If that makes me a careless egotistical asshole, good.

[Guest ovweather]

1 hour ago, King James said:

Can’t get on board with that. But that’s okay. We are free to go our own ways. Be tolerant

Tolerant, yes. But common sense also has to play a role. The past few months, as tough as its been for many, has been common sense at play. But sadly it has been made political. We are dealing with a new virus we're still not sure how many people it can infect and kill. Playing it safe is common sense. It's like going to your basement when a tornado warning is issued for your county. Your odds are pretty small that the tornado will hit your house, but what if it did and you refused to go to your basement? That lack of common sense could have cost you and your family their lives.

Yes, we have many great freedoms here in the US, freedoms we don't want to lose. But how is following the rules and wearing a face mask any different than following the rules and, for example, wearing clothes in public? How many people are protesting because they aren't free to walk around naked in public? None? Why? Because it's an established rule of society. So for anyone complaining about having to wear a face mask or get a test or a vaccine, this isn't your freedoms being taken away, this is simply how a civilized and empathetic society functions (or should).

[Stebo]

2 hours ago, weatherbo said:

There have been 104 confirmed cases in the entire UP.  MOST of the 10 deaths(13 total up-wide) in Marquette county have been at a nursing home, as well as a good deal of the confirmed cases in general. I will wear a mask where required, but other than that I am living my life and enjoying my freedoms.  If that makes me a careless egotistical asshole, good.

That wasn't directed at you man, and furthermore you know the UP is completely different than say Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland. Hell you can go 50 miles and pass 10 cars up there. Also no one said not to enjoy life or your freedoms either. Hell I only wear my mask in required places as well, otherwise I practice smart and safe social distancing in public as everyone should at this point.

[weatherbo]

1 minute ago, Stebo said:

That wasn't directed at you man, and furthermore you know the UP is completely different than say Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland. Hell you can go 50 miles and pass 10 cars up there.

Yes there are hot spots in the country.   The majority of MI counties tho, are just like here in the UP. The cases in MI are mostly in a "tri-county" area.  You have to understand the frustration the majority of Michiganders feel who's lives have been not only disrupted (to say the least), but in some cases, changed forever... for a virus that didn't really affect the community they live in. There's two sides to every argument, and tbh, I'm a little tired of only one side being considered.  Somehow, if I want to live my life, I'm then selfish and don't care about humanity. **** that.  And **** your narrow mind.

[Stebo]

3 minutes ago, weatherbo said:

Yes there are hot spots in the country.   The majority of MI counties tho, are just like here in the UP. The cases in MI are mostly in a "tri-county" area.  You have to understand the frustration the majority of Michiganders feel who's lives have been not only disrupted (to say the least), but in some cases, changed forever... for a virus that didn't really affect the community they live in. There's two sides to every argument, and tbh, I'm a little tired of only one side being considered.  Somehow, if I want to live my life, I'm then selfish and don't care about humanity. **** that.  And **** your narrow mind.

Yeah I am the narrow minded one for caring about everyone else when you admit to being selfish. Also last I checked the UP opened back up so go enjoy yourself and have a beer at a bar or dinner at a restaurant, something I can't do.

[weatherbo]

2 minutes ago, Stebo said:

Yeah I am the narrow minded one for caring about everyone else when you admit to being selfish. Also last I checked the UP opened back up so go enjoy yourself and have a beer at a bar or dinner at a restaurant, something I can't do.

Don't play the victim now, you've been pro-lockdown from the beginning, and I do understand that to a degree considering where you live, but don't hold us all to your standards and then cast judgement.

 

[Stebo]

2 minutes ago, weatherbo said:

Don't play the victim now, you've been pro-lockdown from the beginning, and I do understand that to a degree considering where you live, but don't hold us all to your standards and then cast judgement.

 

Yes I am pro-lockdown because I trust the doctors making the call and because I work in an airport terminal and don't want thousands of sick people here. I will cast whatever judgement I want though if people are going to be purposely obtuse.

[wisconsinwx]

1 hour ago, ovweather said:

Tolerant, yes. But common sense also has to play a role. The past few months, as tough as its been for many, has been common sense at play. But sadly it has been made political. We are dealing with a new virus we're still not sure how many people it can infect and kill. Playing it safe is common sense. It's like going to your basement when a tornado warning is issued for your county. Your odds are pretty small that the tornado will hit your house, but what if it did and you refused to go to your basement? That lack of common sense could have cost you and your family their lives.

Yes, we have many great freedoms here in the US, freedoms we don't want to lose. But how is following the rules and wearing a face mask any different than following the rules and, for example, wearing clothes in public? How many people are protesting because they aren't free to walk around naked in public? None? Why? Because it's an established rule of society. So for anyone complaining about having to wear a face mask or get a test or a vaccine, this isn't your freedoms being taken away, this is simply how a civilized and empathetic society functions (or should).

Common sense includes not much evidence of spread outdoors (and when sun is involved, an even lower chance).  That isn't to say it's foolproof, but I'd call that part of common sense, knowing when a mask is necessary (a crowded grocery store) vs when it should be voluntary and not a big deal to not have a mask (on your daily walk in a low crowd situation).

[Stebo]

Just now, wisconsinwx said:

Common sense includes not much evidence of spread outdoors (and when sun is involved, an even lower chance).  That isn't to say it's foolproof, but I'd call that part of common sense, knowing when a mask is necessary (a crowded grocery store) vs when it should be voluntary and not a big deal to not have a mask (on your daily walk in a low crowd situation).

Exactly. I don't expect people to wear a mask any time they walk out their house. That is illogical, but there are places where it is required in high traffic areas. It is not that hard to do.

[Stebo]

3 minutes ago, weatherbo said:

And no, the majority of restaurants did not open back up at the current guidelines.  A few desperate bars here in the snowbelts did, thankfully. The uptick here in spousal and child abuse/police calls has been notable, and that's not hyperbole.

Yes I well aware of the problems of a stay at home order. It just shows how ****ed up society truly is.

[Guest ovweather]

21 minutes ago, wisconsinwx said:

Common sense includes not much evidence of spread outdoors (and when sun is involved, an even lower chance).  That isn't to say it's foolproof, but I'd call that part of common sense, knowing when a mask is necessary (a crowded grocery store) vs when it should be voluntary and not a big deal to not have a mask (on your daily walk in a low crowd situation).

I agree. I don’t wear a mask at all times. But I have no problem wearing one if required or a rule of a business or community. I don’t feel like my freedoms are being stepped on in anyway by having to wear a mask. It’s not that big of a deal to wear one and I also think it shows common courtesy, especially to the older folks in places like grocery stores.