nwohweather Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, RobertSul said: What Michigan factories were allowed to stay open? I see you're from MA, but in the Midwest almost all factories have been deemed essential. I know the company I work for has had no problems, we're even working in the NYC metro area currently. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertSul Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 Just now, nwohweather said: I see you're from MA, but in the Midwest almost all factories have been deemed essential. I know the company I work for has had no problems, we're even working in the NYC metro area currently. I moved back to Mass after living in Michigan for 15 years. But what factories in Michigan were allowed to stay open? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madwx Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 Once again this thread is just proving how polarizing online discussions become. We either get people complaining about people being out and about without masks or sharing images that make beaches look much more crowded than they are or sharing fake stories about how the new world order has brought this disease upon us to destroy our freedoms and parroting some online information from very questionable sources. Very few people here are actually discussing a productive way to handle this disease. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 Just now, madwx said: Once again this thread is just proving how polarizing online discussions become. We either get people complaining about people being out and about without masks or sharing images that make beaches look much more crowded than they are or sharing fake stories about how the new world order has brought this disease upon us to destroy our freedoms and parroting some online information from very questionable sources. Very few people here are actually discussing a productive way to handle this disease. I think we just watched our first social media driven human pathogen cycle through the population. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestMichigan Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 53 minutes ago, RobertSul said: If someone drunk driving on the roads led to three other drunk drivers on the roads, and each of those led to another 1-3 drunk drivers on the road and so on, then you’d have a point. Likewise, if COVID-19 was not contagious and was regulated to isolated incidents like in your examples, then we certainly wouldn’t have gone through all this trouble. isolated? Per NHTSA drunk driving accounts for over 10,000 deaths a year. That isn't isolated. Not COVID19 levels, but tell those families drinking alcohol is ok and that death doesn't matter. Same reasoning as the OP. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwohweather Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, RobertSul said: I moved back to Mass after living in Michigan for 15 years. But what factories in Michigan were allowed to stay open? All of them. Literally automotive voluntarily shut down, but everything else is running as is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madwx Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Jonger said: I think we just watched our first social media driven human pathogen cycle through the population. what does this even mean? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sokolow Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 2 hours ago, madwx said: This will be inherently more deadly than the flu because no one has any prior immunity from previous exposure or a vaccine like millions upon millions do every flu season, this is a fact that cannot be denied or argued. Well. There’s limited preprint data from German research that shows a low level of limited background immune cross-reactivity in ~1/3 of the population, possibly due to previous exposure to other human coronavirus. But I don’t think they know how much of that is artifact let alone whether those findings are in turn associated with meaningful immune protection 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertSul Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 Just now, WestMichigan said: isolated? Per NHTSA drunk driving accounts for over 10,000 deaths a year. That isn't isolated. Not COVID19 levels, but tell those families drinking alcohol is ok and that death doesn't matter. Same reasoning as the OP. Thank you for that statistic. So with the social distancing in place, and in only 2 months, we have 6x the amount of deaths that drunk driving causes in an entire year. Also, isolated in this case means “having minimal contact or little in common than others”. In other words: not causing a chain reaction. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 Just now, madwx said: what does this even mean? We just saw what happens when a virus is tracked from initial reports until it spread through the entire population. People freaked out and went 100 times further in an attempt to mitigate its spread compared to most viruses. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 Just now, RobertSul said: Thank you for that statistic. So with the social distancing in place, and in only 2 months, we have 6x the amount of deaths that drunk driving causes in an entire year. Also, isolated in this case means “having minimal contact or little in common than others”. In other words: not causing a chain reaction. We had a poster try to use the old, "tell that to the X number of people who lost loved ones" card. That's a fair comparison. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madwx Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Jonger said: We just saw what happens when a virus is tracked from initial reports until it spread through the entire population. People freaked out and went 100 times further in an attempt to mitigate its spread compared to most viruses. also we are much less accustomed to death now. when someone in middle age dies these days we treat it as a shock and something that should be avoided, rather than 100 years ago when it was commonplace for children and young adults to die often(from disease, starvation, war etc.) as humanity progresses we accept less death and for the most part that's a good thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertSul Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 8 minutes ago, nwohweather said: All of them. Literally automotive voluntarily shut down, but everything else is running as is. I’m having trouble finding any information online that supports this. Do you have any sources? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertSul Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, Jonger said: We had a poster try to use the old, "tell that to the X number of people who lost loved ones" card. That's a fair comparison. I’m not responsible for what other posters post. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueWaves Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 7 minutes ago, RobertSul said: I’m having trouble finding any information online that supports this. Do you have any sources? I've personally seen cars at almost every non-automotive factory in my city and neighboring municipalities. I'm a boots on the ground source. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueWaves Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 15 minutes ago, Jonger said: We just saw what happens when a virus is tracked from initial reports until it spread through the entire population. People freaked out and went 100 times further in an attempt to mitigate its spread compared to most viruses. Don't forget how this scare was propped-up with model forecasts. Some will say those crazy high numbers coulda-woulda-shoulda happened minus lock-down, to which I give you AR and any other place that didn't jump into panic mode. Those same models used to strike fear that there'd be no ice left in the Arctic. Pfft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwohweather Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 13 minutes ago, RobertSul said: I’m having trouble finding any information online that supports this. Do you have any sources? From the Detroit Free Press... The governor's order also designates "critical infrastructure workers" that will be allowed to continue working. Full details are listed here. These include workers in the following sectors: Health and public safety Child care Law enforcement and first responders Food and agriculture Energy Water and waste management such as trash pickup, plumbing services Manufactures providing essential services during the pandemic Funeral home and mortuary services Transportation and logistics Those supporting food, shelter and other social services for the needy Public works Communications, including those in media Critical manufacturing Financial services Hazardous materials Defense industrial base Workers at key supply and distribution centers Basically all companies have used the two bolded exemptions to continue to running as their reasons. It's why all my friends back home in manufacturing are still working. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertSul Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, RogueWaves said: I've personally seen cars at almost every non-automotive factory in my city and neighboring municipalities. I'm a boots on the ground source. Sounds like that’d be against the stay-at-home order, then. I don’t see any exceptions being made to factories in the literature, but of course to forcibly shut them down would be governmental overreach and to keep them open would be hypocritical. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwohweather Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, RobertSul said: Sounds like that’d be against the stay-at-home order, then. I don’t see any exceptions being made to factories in the literature, but of course to forcibly shut them down would be governmental overreach and to keep them open would be hypocritical. See I think they should have for consistency purposes. It's hard to justify one sector being shut down, when then manufacturing people are doing the same thing but in a factory. Again though the overreach by Gov. Whitmer is deplorable and she should absolutely lose re-election regardless of party. To tell people what they can and cannot buy in stores, and that they cannot go to second homes is insanity. I understand the intent, but this is America. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertSul Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, nwohweather said: From the Detroit Free Press... The governor's order also designates "critical infrastructure workers" that will be allowed to continue working. Full details are listed here. These include workers in the following sectors: Health and public safety Child care Law enforcement and first responders Food and agriculture Energy Water and waste management such as trash pickup, plumbing services Manufactures providing essential services during the pandemic Funeral home and mortuary services Transportation and logistics Those supporting food, shelter and other social services for the needy Public works Communications, including those in media Critical manufacturing Financial services Hazardous materials Defense industrial base Workers at key supply and distribution centers Basically all companies have used the two bolded exemptions to continue to running as their reasons. It's why all my friends back home in manufacturing are still working. Ah thank you for this! I’m wondering if those factories took extra precautions, or perhaps cases haven’t been as widespread in the western part of the state? Whatever the case, those all look essential except for the financial services? I’m not sure what would happen if the essential ones ended up shutting down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertSul Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 23 minutes ago, nwohweather said: See I think they should have for consistency purposes. It's hard to justify one sector being shut down, when then manufacturing people are doing the same thing but in a factory. Again though the overreach by Gov. Whitmer is deplorable and she should absolutely lose re-election regardless of party. To tell people what they can and cannot buy in stores, and that they cannot go to second homes is insanity. I understand the intent, but this is America. Under ordinary circumstances you’re absolutely right, but these are extraordinary circumstances. Also, Michigan had 2,000 cases a day for a while, yesterday they were down to under 200, so something’s working. People who have 2nd homes could potentially bring the disease to a place where it didn’t previously occur. It’s like spreading a new disease to an Amazon tribe that has no contact with the outside world - they don’t have vaccines or immunity to various diseases, just like people with COVID don’t have access to vaccines and there’s limited immunity, though antibody testing is giving us a better idea as to who would be. In other words: If I’m infected and go to my 2nd home in a town that doesn’t have any cases, wait in line at a convenience store for food that I forgot to bring, and spread it to the people there, suddenly I’m responsible for new cases spreading in that town. What other protections would the citizens of that town have? How would you hold me accountable for spreading disease and death there? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestMichigan Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 30 minutes ago, RobertSul said: Under ordinary circumstances you’re absolutely right, but these are extraordinary circumstances. Also, Michigan had 2,000 cases a day for a while, yesterday they were down to under 200, so something’s working. There was a problem with yesterday's numbers so that is too low. It is * on the michigan.gov website. They had a problem with their computer program collecting and aggregating the data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestMichigan Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Jonger said: We had a poster try to use the old, "tell that to the X number of people who lost loved ones" card. That's a fair comparison. Which is why I referred to the OP in my post. @RobertSul either missed that or disregarded it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertSul Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 13 minutes ago, WestMichigan said: Which is why I referred to the OP in my post. @RobertSul either missed that or disregarded it. Sorry I guess I don’t understand what your conversation with another poster has to do with me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Jonger said: Did you suddenly become 80+ years old with underlying medical conditions? Most people don't even show symptoms when infected. My grandmother could have been taken out by a light breeze when she was in her final year of her life. Had COVID-19 been around, she most likely would have been a victim. She died anyhow. No but I have living grandparents in their 80s and parents in their late 50s. I don't want either of them dying from this, I actually care about more than myself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 1 hour ago, nwohweather said: I see you're from MA, but in the Midwest almost all factories have been deemed essential. I know the company I work for has had no problems, we're even working in the NYC metro area currently. No they weren't. Whoever gave you this information is wrong, and that 'company' you know was probably breaking the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Jonger said: We had a poster try to use the old, "tell that to the X number of people who lost loved ones" card. That's a fair comparison. If you were referring to my posts, it was a correction of someone saying that we have had 0.02% deaths. It is turning the real number into a baseless statistic to marginalize the impact of the real number. It is very obvious you think this is no big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertSul Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 Just now, Stebo said: If you were referring to my posts, it was a correction of someone saying that we have had 0.02% deaths. It is turning the real number into a baseless statistic to marginalize the impact of the real number. It is very obvious you think this is no big deal. I don’t think he thinks it’s not a big deal, it seems his belief is that the disease doesn’t justify the government’s reaction. I disagree with that belief, but that’s what the 1st amendment is for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 1 minute ago, RobertSul said: I don’t think he thinks it’s not a big deal, it seems his belief is that the disease doesn’t justify the government’s reaction. I disagree with that belief, but that’s what the 1st amendment is for. Here is the problem with his belief, we have 70k people dead with the government's reaction with no end in sight. How many would we have dead if we weren't doing all these preventative measures, I would argue 3x 4x 5x dead or even worse with hospitals inundated. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 Furthermore public opinion of how the government, specifically the state government is very favorable on how they have handled this so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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