Coronavirus

[TimB]

7 minutes ago, schoeppeya said:

Why don’t you argue against what I’m saying instead of what you think I’m saying. Overweight people are one of the primary reasons (the foremost reason, actually) this pandemic was so impactful in the first place. 

Unvaccinated people are the foremost reason it’s going to continue. So it’s the same argument.

[TimB]

2 minutes ago, schoeppeya said:

You're wrong here and overgeneralizing a demographic that you disagree with politically. 

“Vaccines work and everyone (with very few exceptions) should get them” isn’t a political view, it’s a scientific one.

[schoeppeya]

1 hour ago, TimB84 said:

Unvaccinated people are the foremost reason it’s going to continue. So it’s the same argument.

It’s not continuing. The pandemics over. 

[schoeppeya]

16 minutes ago, TimB84 said:

“Vaccines work and everyone (with very few exceptions) should get them” isn’t a political view, it’s a scientific one.

"carrying excess bodyfat is unhealthy and a tax on the healthcare system and everyone  who is overweight (with no exceptions) should lose weight isn't a political view, its a scientific one"

[Malacka11]

The pandemic is not over, and it is seriously screwed up to insinuate that someone in here wants it to continue. As long as there are thousands of people with the disease, technically, there is still a pandemic. 

And yes, agreed, the obesity epidemic is also a scientific view. I don't think anyone else said otherwise, so I don't know why you're touting this as some sort of big aha-gotchu moment.

[Scorpion]

I’m not getting some experimental vaccine for a mild flu.

[Jonger]

6 minutes ago, Scorpion said:

I’m not getting some experimental vaccine for a mild flu.

That's essentially all it is.

Anyhow....vaccines are legit ways to irradiate human pathogens, but this is pretty much as dangerous as any seasonal flu.

[TimB]

32 minutes ago, schoeppeya said:

It’s not continuing. Despite your wishes otherwise, the pandemics over. 

I certainly don’t wish otherwise. You used to argue in good faith, what changed?

[schoeppeya]

21 minutes ago, Malacka11 said:

The pandemic is not over, and it is seriously screwed up to insinuate that someone in here wants it to continue. As long as there are thousands of people with the disease, technically, there is still a pandemic. 

And yes, agreed, the obesity epidemic is also a scientific view. I don't think anyone else said otherwise, so I don't know why you're touting this as some sort of big aha-gotchu moment.

If thats the only qualification you can add the the long list of hundreds of other pandemics ongoing in the country. 

There is undeniably a certain type of person who has enjoyed the side effects and shifts in cultural dynamics the pandemic has caused. 

There is also an undeniable sentiment every time it gets brought up thats its silly to expect people to get in shape. 

[madwx]

34 minutes ago, schoeppeya said:

It’s not continuing. Despite your wishes otherwise, the pandemics over. 

This guy is right, time to shut this thread down.  There's been nothing of value posted in the last three pages

[OSUmetstud]

2 hours ago, schoeppeya said:

You’re talking about something that would have made the pandemic orders of magnitude less consequential- the pandemic cost us hundreds of thousands of lives it didn’t need to, and we won’t really know the economic implications of the policies we’ve executed for the next few years and even decades. And in the end, the vaccine might as well be a band aid for a lot of people in our country. And they will continue to slap more and more band aids on until there’s one that doesn’t work and being fat will still kill them in the end. 

So full of shit. 

 

[OSUmetstud]

The biggest risk of covid is by far age not being overweight. Being overweight is much more important if you're under 50...but given that covid deaths are far higher in the old...it doesn't have a large effect on the total mortality of the disease.

Vaccines are literally the ****ing solution to a once in a 100-year pandemic. It's not band aid. 

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm

[schoeppeya]

12 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

So full of shit. 

 

Cool. 

Being overweight increases your chances of mortality for literally every leading cause of death. None of which the Covid vaccine is protectionary for. So yes, it is a bandaid in the sense that it will prevent Covid from killing you, but it will not prevent you from dying from the primary covid co mordbidity.

So full of shit.

 

[Hoosier]

30 minutes ago, Jonger said:

That's essentially all it is.

Anyhow....vaccines are legit ways to irradiate human pathogens, but this is pretty much as dangerous as any seasonal flu.

You have your anecdotes and I have mine.  The good thing is that we have data, and it shows that there have been many hundreds of thousands of covid deaths in the US in just over 1 year of time.  Real covid deaths, not a ton of inappropriately classified deaths.  Who knows how many are dealing with longer term symptoms.  It is wrong to compare it to the flu.  It is worse for just about every age group except young children.

[schoeppeya]

29 minutes ago, TimB84 said:

I certainly don’t wish otherwise. You used to argue in good faith, what changed?

Sorry for the cheap shot, it was wrong of me. Posts edited. 

[OSUmetstud]

1 minute ago, schoeppeya said:

Cool. 

Being overweight increases your chances of mortality for literally every leading cause of death. None of which the Covid vaccine is protectionary for. So yes, it is a bandaid in the sense that it will prevent Covid from killing you, but it will not prevent you from dying from the primary covid co mordbidity.

So full of shit.

 

Order of magnitude less consequential? That's a lie given the risk association with obesity and covid. The biggest risk by far is age. 

Vaccines prevent disease. They are not a band aid. 

[schoeppeya]

2 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

Order of magnitude less consequential? That's a lie given the risk association with obesity and covid. The biggest risk by far is age. 

Vaccines prevent disease. They are not a band aid. 

Obesity is the largest co-morbidity of Covid. Obesity triples your likelihood of being hospitalized from coved. You cant control age, you can control obesity. Vaccines prevent covid, they don't cure fatness. 

[winterwx21]

4 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

The biggest risk of covid is by far age not being overweight. Being overweight is much more important if you're under 50...but given that covid deaths are far higher in the old...it doesn't have a large effect on the total mortality of the disease.

Vaccines are literally the ****ing solution to a once in a 100-year pandemic. It's not band aid. 

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm

The big study done in California where they looked at almost 50,000 people found that physical inactivity was an even bigger risk factor than obesity. People that exercised had very low hospitalization and death rates while people that did not exercise had very high hospitalization and death rates. The study found that only old age and organ transplant were bigger risk factors than physical inactivity. No question old age is the biggest risk factor, but a lot of old people are at high risk because they've developed underlying conditions as a result of a lifetime of not being physically active. There are some old people that have done well with the virus because they exercised their entire lives and are still in great shape. I have a 90 year old neighbor that had only mild symptoms when she got Covid, because she's still in great shape due to exercise.  Physical activity is incredibly important when it comes to Covid risk. The studies are overwhelming on that.

You're right though, vaccines are the most important thing right now. Many lives would have been saved during the pandemic had health authorities gotten the message out that getting into shape greatly reduces Covid risk, but now we have vaccines that are close to 100% at preventing severe illness. So it's very important for most people to get the vaccine. The exceptions are people that are naturally immune due to previous infection, and the small percentage of people that put themselves at very low risk due to being in great shape through exercise. It is definitely still important to get the message out (as Dr. Sallis says in the quotes that I provided) on how severe illness can be prevented through exercise, because there are going to be some people that don't get the vaccine for various reasons (whether valid or not). Getting into shape can save the lives of many of these people.

[OSUmetstud]

4 minutes ago, schoeppeya said:

Obesity is the largest co-morbidity of Covid. Obesity triples your likelihood of being hospitalized from coved. You cant control age, you can control obesity. Vaccines prevent covid, they don't cure fatness. 

We might have prevented like 10s of thousands of deaths if everyone were of normal BMI. Seriously. There was 600k deaths or so far (perhaps more). Maybe you prevent half the 20k deaths or so under 50. I'm all for health. But it's only going to make a dent because obesity is a much smaller issue for death above 65. 

[OSUmetstud]

I meant to post this study earlier.

Body Mass Index and Risk for COVID-19–Related Hospitalization, Intensive Care Unit Admission, Invasive Mechanical Ventilation, and Death — United States, March–December 2020. (2021). 

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7010e4.htm

ARR for death is 2.01 under 65 for BMI > 45 

ARR for death is 1.50 over 65 for BMI > 45

 

[winterwx21]

5 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

I meant to post this study earlier.

Body Mass Index and Risk for COVID-19–Related Hospitalization, Intensive Care Unit Admission, Invasive Mechanical Ventilation, and Death — United States, March–December 2020. (2021). 

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7010e4.htm

ARR for death is 2.01 under 65 for BMI > 45 

ARR for death is 1.50 over 65 for BMI > 45

 

This recent study found that severe Covid risk starts increasing with a BMI just above of 23, which is in the normal range but on the higher end of it. Each point higher than 23 resulted in a 10% increase in ICU admission...

https://www.rt.com/news/522682-obesity-coronavirus-young-study/

[OSUmetstud]

2 minutes ago, winterwx21 said:

This recent study found that severe Covid risk starts increasing with a BMI just above of 23, which is in the normal range but on the higher end of it. Each point higher than 23 resulted in a 10% increase in ICU admission...

https://www.rt.com/news/522682-obesity-coronavirus-young-study/

Do you have a link to the study? 

[schoeppeya]

21 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

I meant to post this study earlier.

Body Mass Index and Risk for COVID-19–Related Hospitalization, Intensive Care Unit Admission, Invasive Mechanical Ventilation, and Death — United States, March–December 2020. (2021). 

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7010e4.htm

ARR for death is 2.01 under 65 for BMI > 45 

ARR for death is 1.50 over 65 for BMI > 45

 

"Among 71,491 patients hospitalized with COVID-19 (48.1% of all COVID-19 patients), 34,896 (48.8%) required ICU admission, 9,525 (13.3%) required invasive mechanical ventilation, and 8,348 (11.7%) died. Approximately 1.8% of patients had underweight, 28.3% had overweight, and 50.8% had obesity."

So 79% of hospital patients were overweight. And the ARR you provided just reflects severely obese patient mortality. Its significantly higher for higher BMI's in every category, include nearly doubling the risk of being put on a ventilator. 

And, to your 65 and older comments-also from the study you posted:

"Consistent with previous studies, the dose-response relationship between risk for hospitalization or death and higher BMI was particularly pronounced among patients aged <65 years (1,2). However, in contrast to previous studies that demonstrated little or no association between obesity and COVID-19 severity among older patients (1,2), the results in this report indicate that overweight and obesity are risk factors for invasive mechanical ventilation and that obesity or severe obesity are risk factors for hospitalization, ICU admission, and death among patients aged ≥65 years. A sensitivity analysis adjusting for other underlying medical conditions found weaker associations between BMI and severe COVID-19–associated illness, which might be partially attributable to indirect effects of obesity on COVID-19 or overadjustment by including intermediate variables on the causal pathway from exposure (i.e., BMI) to outcome."

And finally:

"These findings highlight the clinical and public health implications of higher BMIs, including the need for intensive COVID-19 illness management as obesity severity increases, promotion of COVID-19 prevention strategies including continued vaccine prioritization (6) and masking, and policies to ensure community access to nutrition and physical activities that promote and support a healthy BMI."

 

[winterwx21]

1 minute ago, OSUmetstud said:

Do you have a link to the study? 

I post the rt.com link where they talk about the study. If you do a google search you see lots of articles on this recent large study.

[schoeppeya]

1 minute ago, winterwx21 said:

I post the rt.com link where they talk about the study. If you do a google search you see lots of articles on this recent large study.

"“Excess weight is a modifiable risk factor, and investment in the treatment of overweight and obesity and long-term preventive strategies could help reduce the severity of Covid-19 disease,” they wrote. "

"The research adds to a growing list of scientific literature pointing to a correlation between weight and likelihood of severe Covid-19. A study published last year in Nature found that obesity significantly increased the risk of coronavirus-linked death. People with a BMI over 40 were at 92% higher risk of dying from the virus compared with people with a healthy BMI between 18.5-25."

A few more highlights.

[OSUmetstud]

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/landia/article/PIIS2213-8587(21)00089-9/fulltext

This is the study RT was referencing. 

[mattb65]

2 hours ago, Jonger said:

That's essentially all it is.

Anyhow....vaccines are legit ways to irradiate human pathogens, but this is pretty much as dangerous as any seasonal flu.

Just like the flu except 3-4x more transmissible and 10x more lethal.  Otherwise,  same same. Good point Jonger.

[Hoosier]

8 minutes ago, mattb65 said:

Just like the flu except 3-4x more transmissible and 10x more lethal.  Otherwise,  same same. Good point Jonger.

I feel like Jonger is at least partly going off of experiences of people he knows.  It's good that he doesn't know anybody who has gotten seriously ill.  A lot of people do know someone who has gotten seriously ill or died.

It would be nice to get the mortality rate to flu levels.  Maybe it will happen in the coming years, but at this point it's just not the same.

 

[StormfanaticInd]

Covid19 is far worse than the flu. I know of several people that became severely ill or even died. Thankfully we have a vaccine now and this pandemic is almost over... Hopefully 

[StormfanaticInd]