Coronavirus

[Powerball]

Given the "strong" reactions in this thread, I feel it's prudent to post this. I said exactly this myself earlier, BTW:

Pausing use of J&J Covid vaccine will not affect timeline of getting U.S. vaccinated, says doctor

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/13/pausing-use-of-jj-covid-vaccine-will-not-affect-timeline-of-getting-us-vaccinated-says-doctor.html

 

Quote

America’s temporary pause in the use of Johnson & Johnson’s single-dose Covid-19 vaccine will not interfere with President Joe Biden’s goal of getting the nation to some semblance of normalcy by Independence Day, the dean of Brown University’s School of Public Health said Tuesday.

“I think this is going to be a blip on the calendar in terms of getting Americans vaccinated,” said Dr. Ashish Jha. “I don’t think it’s going to affect the timeline at all.” 

 

Federal health agencies advised Tuesday that the U.S. should temporarily pause the use of J&J’s single-dose vaccine after six women out of the roughly 6.9 million people who received the shot reported getting severe blood clots. The blood clots occurred in women between the ages of 18 and 48. One woman died and another is in critical condition. They all developed symptoms 6 to 13 days after getting the shot, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and Food and Drug Administration.  

Jha told CNBC’s “The News with Shepard Smith” that the cautionary measures were proof that “the system is working,” and that the government’s swift action may counter vaccine hesitancy. 

“My hope is that it will actually build confidence in people that we don’t take adverse events lightly, and that we investigate them, and that we really are making sure these vaccines are very, very safe.”

 

[OSUmetstud]

3 minutes ago, fujiwara79 said:

just wait until the cruise lines require vaccinations.  the anti-vaxxers are going to be in quite a conundrum.  they love those cheap $500 all-you-can-eat carribean cruises.

Isn't this already a thing?

[Stebo]

Just now, OSUmetstud said:

Isn't this already a thing?

That post stinks of DavidK, just saying.

[dan11295]

Lockdowns have had varying degrees of success depending on the country. In reality they were never going to be a viable solution for the U.S. due to the size of the country, nature of our governmental system, differences in political beliefs, and number of entry points.

They were most effective in countries which were smaller, more isolated, limited entry points, had a strong central government to enforce strict national measures and/or movement control orders. Additionally, they acted when case numbers were very small AND were able to provide support for the population while stuff was shut down. Examples: NZ, Australia, Malaysia.

Other countries, particularly in Latin American (e.g. Argentina, Peru) also attempted this but failed miserably (Peru has the highest excess mortality or any country for which we have data). In these cases, often not enough planning was done and too much of their economies were "informal" and dependent on frequent person-to-person interaction. (e.g. many people don't have refrigerators so needed to visit markets daily).

Bottom line is there is not one plan fits all for all countries. A place like Australia IMHO has done really well with strict lock downs. In a country with a poor, very young population (e.g. many African countries they would probably do more harm then good.

[fujiwara79]

suicides and drug abuse were going up for years before the pandemic.  extreme wealth inequality and social media are the leading causes.

[OSUmetstud]

1 minute ago, fujiwara79 said:

suicides and drug abuse were going up for years before the pandemic.  extreme wealth inequality and social media are the leading causes.

There was a 19% increase in accidental death due mainly due to overdose last year. The increase was far higher than the background trend. 

We can argue why those happened. But mental health has gotten considerably worse during the pandemic. Maybe it's the fear of the virus...maybe it's the negative media...maybe it's the lockdowns. But either way the other ways people suffer during this thing can't be cast aside. 

[StormfanaticInd]

21 minutes ago, BuffaloWeather said:

A personal story I just got from my wife in regards to the J&J vaccine. My wifes friends friend from church got the J&J on Friday. She was dizzy over the weekend. She passed out and went to the ER. She had a blood clot in her brain, the clot is now draining and is in stable condition. Pretty scary stuff...I'd stick with Moderna/Pfizer.

This may be a bigger problem than they are leading us to believe then. Interesting 

[Malacka11]

I think that cruise ships are a different story though, because the period of exposure between people is much longer. Theoretically, if you have covid but tested negative because you JUST got it, then you can attend a football game safely. But if you go on a cruise ship waving a negative test in your hand and then develop symptoms 36 hours later, that's an issue.

[fujiwara79]

14 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

There was a 19% increase in accidental death due mainly due to overdose last year. The increase was far higher than the background trend. 

We can argue why those happened. But mental health has gotten considerably worse during the pandemic. Maybe it's the fear of the virus...maybe it's the negative media...maybe it's the lockdowns. But either way the other ways people suffer during this thing can't be cast aside. 

i think the pandemic exacerbated it, but drug overdoses have been going up for 20 years.  they've quadrupled since 1999.  suicides have likewise been increasing since 2000.  the pandemic is not a root cause of these things, but rather an exacerbating factor.  the same people who bring up mental health now, didn't bring them up before the pandemic.  it's an argument of convenience for them.

[mattb65]

1 hour ago, BuffaloWeather said:

A personal story I just got from my wife in regards to the J&J vaccine. My wifes friends friend from church got the J&J on Friday. She was dizzy over the weekend. She passed out and went to the ER. She had a blood clot in her brain, the clot is now draining and is in stable condition. Pretty scary stuff...I'd stick with Moderna/Pfizer.

As a Neurologist, I'm very familiar with cerebral venous thrombosis and can affirm that they are very scary, can be difficult to treat and can be deadly or very disabling.  It's one of the reasons why I support them doing due diligence to define and mitigate this risk as much as possible.

I'll never forget the woman I saw as a medical student who was teaching a class as a professor and went down and was found to have a massive CVT and became brain dead 48 hrs later even with maximal treatment.  I've had plenty that were identified and got anti coagulation and did fine too.

I agree with those that note since we have alternative and safer vaccines,  maybe we should restrict J&J if we identify that young women are the ones getting this complication.

[BuffaloWeather]

12 minutes ago, mattb65 said:

As a Neurologist, I'm very familiar with cerebral venous thrombosis and can affirm that they are very scary, can be difficult to treat and can cause be deadly or very disabling.  It's one of the reasons why I support them doing due diligence to define and mitigate this risk as much as possible.

I'll never forget the woman I saw as a medical student who was teaching a class as a professor and went down and was found to have a massive CVT and became brain dead 48 hrs later even with maximal treatment.  I've had plenty that were identified and got anti coagulation and did find.

I agree with those that note since we have alternative and safer vaccines,  maybe we should restrict J&J if we identify that young women are the ones getting this complication.

3 years ago my wife and I were at a wedding in Perry New York. At 8 pm we were eating dessert with my good friend who was 27 at the time, at 9 pm be passed out on the ground and after an hour of trying to bring him back he was dead at 10 pm. There was a doctor and several nurses at the wedding. Brain aneurysm at 27. I'll never forget that night.

[Hoosier]

Deleted over 50 posts in here. 

A friendly reminder... please try to stay on topic as much as possible and keep it civil.  

[winterwx21]

2 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

Deleted over 50 posts in here. 

A friendly reminder... please try to stay on topic as much as possible and keep it civil.  

Exactly. Several days ago I talked about how every other Covid thread on Americanwx eventually got taken down because people were not being civil. There are a couple people here that get very nasty with people that they disagree with. They really need to calm down and try to keep it civil, or else this thread will go too and there will be no place to talk about Covid on this site. Most people here are great and are respectful no matter how much they disagree. It's just a select few that are putting this thread in jeopardy. I don't understand why some people feel the need to get nasty just because they disagree. Everyone has different opinions and there's nothing wrong with that. I hope the few people that are putting this thread in jeopardy will try to be more civil.

[outflow]

On 4/8/2021 at 9:07 PM, outflow said:

Got my j and j vaccine this morning. About a hr ago I started to feel the standard achey and fatigue that seems to be associated with it. The nurse who did mine said they have dozen of open spots for the next two days with little interest it would seem for more to get the shot.

Ended up with about 18 hs of symptoms including a bad headache and nausea.  I guess if I get a blood clot my opinion will change but right now I'm glad I got the shot. 

[TimB]

8 hours ago, winterwx21 said:

Exactly. Several days ago I talked about how every other Covid thread on Americanwx eventually got taken down because people were not being civil. There are a couple people here that get very nasty with people that they disagree with. They really need to calm down and try to keep it civil, or else this thread will go too and there will be no place to talk about Covid on this site. Most people here are great and are respectful no matter how much they disagree. It's just a select few that are putting this thread in jeopardy. I don't understand why some people feel the need to get nasty just because they disagree. Everyone has different opinions and there's nothing wrong with that. I hope the few people that are putting this thread in jeopardy will try to be more civil.

It’s my fault. I should have taken the high road instead of engaging with a bad faith, off topic comment. None of the ensuing flame war would have occurred if I just did that. I’ll do better the next time. Apologies.

[RyanDe680]

Its funny how during the height of the pandemic there weren't as many replies in this thread as there are now with vaccinations....  

[Powerball]

White House says U.S. is working to accelerate doses of Pfizer, Moderna Covid vaccines

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/14/covid-vaccine-white-house-says-us-is-working-to-accelerate-pfizer-moderna-doses.html

Quote

...Jeff Zients, the White House’s Covid-19 coordinator, said the Food and Drug Administration’s recommended pause on J&J’s vaccine would not have a “significant impact” on the administration’s vaccination program. On Tuesday, the FDA asked states to temporarily halt using J&J’s vaccine “out of an abundance of caution” after six women developed a rare, but serious, blood clotting disorder that left one dead and another in critical condition.

Some medical experts and former health officials worried halting the use of the single-shot vaccine would disrupt the nation’s massive vaccine campaign.

Zients said the J&J vaccine only makes up 5% of the recorded shots in arms in the U.S. to date. Still, the U.S. government is “doing everything we can to accelerate the delivery” of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines as officials work to end the pandemic, he told reporters during a White House press briefing Wednesday...

[mattb65]

One thing regarding the J&J vaccine that's missing in the public discussion is a more nuanced view of the blood clot risk.  Everyone is putting out the less than 1 in 1,000,000 rate of this adverse effect.  

What I've read is that it's only affected women under 50 so instead the discussion should be the risk in women under 50 is 1 in x and so far this adverse effect has not been seen in any males or women over 50.

My guess is eventually they will resume vaccinations with J&J except for the high risk population. They should be communicating the specific facts.  Transparency will be the best way to build trust in my opinion. 

 

[RCNYILWX]

One thing regarding the J&J vaccine that's missing in the public discussion is a more nuanced view of the blood clot risk.  Everyone is putting out the less than 1 in 1,000,000 rate of this adverse effect.  
What I've read is that it's only affected women under 50 so instead the discussion should be the risk in women under 50 is 1 in x and so far this adverse effect has not been seen in any males or women over 50.
My guess is eventually they will resume vaccinations with J&J except for the high risk population. They should be communicating the specific facts.  Transparency will be the best way to build trust in my opinion. 
 

Do you think they could have disclosed the information about the possible rare blood clot risk and studied it while allowing people to keep their appointments?

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

[StormfanaticInd]

India coming in hot with nearly 200k cases today. The next epicenter in the making.smh

[mattb65]

51 minutes ago, RCNYILWX said:

Do you think they could have disclosed the information about the possible rare blood clot risk and studied it while allowing people to keep their appointments?

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk
 

Yes, though that probably would have also caused some chaos with people canceling appointments. 

My back of napkin math - looking at the data we have from cdc unfortunately doesn't break down vaccines individually by age or gender but does provide the breakdown of all vaccine doses by age and gender.  If I assume a similar proportion of J&J is given based on age/gender of all vaccines - is 35% of vaccines to those under 50, and 55% to women.  So of the 6.8 million J&J doses administered,  approximately 1.3 million have gone to women under 50.

This gives a cerebral venous sinus thrombosis rate of approximately 1 in 200,000 to 1 in 250,000 for this group.

There my be additional cases identified due to more awareness as well as cases from doses given within the last 14 days that haven't developed or been diagnosed yet. 

For all of these reasons a pause is reasonable from a medical perspective imo. Maybe people will have more confidence in the RNA based vaccines that have been given for a longer time without any big safety problems aside from rare anaphylaxis. As I had mentioned when those first reports came out,  anaphylaxis is not fun but is very treatable. CVST is much more difficult to treat and much more likely to cause potentially permanent disability or death. 

[nwohweather]

http:// https://www.newsweek.com/michigans-top-health-official-vacations-alabama-after-whitmer-tells-residents-not-travel-1583686?amp=1

Cant make this stuff up guys. Michigan’s health director took a vacation in Alabama after telling people the state needs to lock down.

[StormfanaticInd]

This virus has been several steps ahead of us since this pandemic began. We have to be proactive not reactive. By the time we react to the surge its usually too late to do anything. Right now we see Michigan and Florida surging. The proactive thing to do would be for America to go back on restrictions now to get ahead of this next surge. That will never happen though unfortunately because most Americans are tired of this understandably.

[Powerball]

CDC panel postpones decision on J&J vaccine while it investigates rare, but serious, blood-clot issue

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/14/cdc-panel-postpones-decision-on-jj-vaccine-while-it-investigates-rare-but-serious-blood-clot-issue.html

A Centers for Disease Control and Prevention panel on Wednesday decided to postpone a decision on Johnson & Johnson’s Covid-19 vaccine after six women developed a rare, but potentially life-threatening, blood-clotting disorder that left one dead and critical condition.

The CDC’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices met a day after the Food and Drug Administration asked states to temporarily halt using J&J’s vaccine “out of an abundance of caution.” The panel voted unanimously to reconvene in a week where it will decide what it will recommend to the CDC on J&J’s vaccine. The postponement means the pause on J&J’s vaccine will remain in effect.

The committee debated whether to and how long they wanted to continue the pause on J&J’s vaccine while the CDC investigates the cause of the blood clotting. One committee member recommended a month-long hold on restarting immunizations, while other members recommended a few weeks. Some members asked whether they could hold off on voting until they had more time to digest the data...

[Powerball]

18 minutes ago, StormfanaticInd said:

This virus has been several steps ahead of us since this pandemic began. We have to be proactive not reactive. By the time we react to the surge its usually too late to do anything. Right now we see Michigan and Florida surging. The proactive thing to do would be for America to go back on restrictions now to get ahead of this next surge. That will never happen though unfortunately because most Americans are tired of this understandably.

Also, any restrictions would require a national strategy in order to be effective, since throughout the pandemic every individual state has proven they'd rather do their own thing (sometimes against CDC recommendations). 

[Powerball]

42 minutes ago, nwohweather said:

http:// https://www.newsweek.com/michigans-top-health-official-vacations-alabama-after-whitmer-tells-residents-not-travel-1583686?amp=1

Cant make this stuff up guys. Michigan’s health director took a vacation in Alabama after telling people the state needs to lock down.

Just to provide some context and corrections to this misleading and agenda-driven post:

1. The State of Michigan confirmed the director has been fully vaccinated.

2. The CDC's guidelines say it's ok for fully vaccinated people to travel.

3. We don't know what activities the director partaked in while on vacation. 

4. Michigan's current health director has not ordered or even recommended to Governor Whitmer (at least not on record) that the state lock down

[schoeppeya]

13 minutes ago, Powerball said:

Just to provide some context to this misleading and agenda-driven post:

1. The State of Michigan confirmed the director has been fully vaccinated.

2. The CDC's guidelines say it's ok for fully vaccinated people to travel.

3. We don't know what activities the director partaked in while on vacation. 

4. Michigan's current health director has not ordered or even recommended to Governor Whitmer (at least not on record) that the state lock down

Overblown for sure but still at its best a bad look. 

[Powerball]

4 minutes ago, schoeppeya said:

Overblown for sure but still at its best a bad look. 

Yeah, I can agree the optics are poor.

Still, let some people tell it given the reactions, she just murdered Baby Jesus. In reality, she didn't do anything against scientific recommendations based on the information we have, and we don't have all of the details. 

[StormfanaticInd]

1 hour ago, Powerball said:

Also, any restrictions would require a national strategy in order to be effective, since throughout the pandemic every individual state has proven they'd rather do their own thing (sometimes against CDC recommendations). 

America was just a sitting duck for this pandemic to strike. Uses all of b our strengths against us

[StormfanaticInd]

Pretty reporting day