Coronavirus

[OSUmetstud]

Just now, winterwx21 said:

The Astrazeneca vaccine is the same type of vaccine as the Johnson vaccine, and there have been a couple hundred cases and a number of deaths over there. Britain's health regulator has recommended that people under the age of 30 get a different Covid vaccine, and now we're seeing a pause of the Johnson vaccine in the US. Obviously there have been enough cases that this type of vaccine is a concern for healthy young people that are already at very low Covid risk.

Yes, but even the AZN vaccine has about a 1 in 100000 risk of these rare blood cots discussed. The only time it might not make sense for someone to get that vaccine is if they are under 30, and if they live in an area with low covid prevalence, so that your absolute risk from the vaccine would be even or maybe slightly higher. Anywhere where there's a lot of covid, it makes sense to get the vaccine, at any age, from a risk standpoint. In places where there's more than one option, I would definitely opt for the mRNA vaccines, but if AZN was only available, I would take it at 35. 

[winterwx21]

3 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

Yes, but even the AZN vaccine has about a 1 in 100000 risk of these rare blood cots discussed. The only time it might not make sense for someone to get that vaccine is if they are under 30, and if they live in an area with low covid prevalence, so that your absolute risk from the vaccine would be even or maybe slightly higher. Anywhere where there's a lot of covid, it makes sense to get the vaccine, at any age, from a risk standpoint. In places where there's more than one option, I would definitely opt for the mRNA vaccines, but if AZN was only available, I would take it at 35. 

 Wise for young people to look at the infection level in their area and their own risk level, and make an informed decision. Not every young person is at low risk. Many are at higher risk due to obesity and other factors. An extremely healthy athlete might not want to take any risk at all with this type of vaccine, while it's worth the tiny blood clot risk for someone that's obese since they're at much higher Covid risk.

[OSUmetstud]

Just now, winterwx21 said:

 Wise for young people to look at the infection level in their area and their own risk level, and make an informed decision. Not every young person is at low risk. Many are at higher risk due to obesity and other factors. An extremely healthy athlete might not want to take any risk at all with this type of vaccine, while it's worth the tiny blood clot risk for someone that's obese since they're at much higher Covid risk.

A younger athletic persons risk of dying of covid is far higher than 1 in 7 million. 

[StormfanaticInd]

The benefits far outweigh the risks. Get vaccinated 

[schoeppeya]

I get both sides. There’s a lot of younger healthy people that aren’t concerned about covid for themselves, and also aren’t scared of vaccines (myself included). To me, statistically, there isn’t a whole lot of reasons to be concerned for YOURSELF from either. 

[Malacka11]

I said it before months ago, and I'll say it again now:

I am a semi-elite runner. I know of at least two running buddies (both of whom are way, way, fitter than you think you are), both my age, who had Covid. The first is an idiot who got it at a party and was sick as hell for a week, and had lingering weakness for over a month. The other was also extremely sick for about two weeks and ended up with fears about heart problems, going back and forth to the hospital for various tests. He is just now, five months later, back to about the same fitness level he was at before. 

I don't care who the hell you think you are, or what you think your statistical chances are of getting sick; if you're not afraid of contracting this disease, you're a certified, grade-A dumbass. If you're scared of the vaccine but not the disease itself, then you're even dumber. 

[CheeselandSkies]

15 minutes ago, Malacka11 said:

I said it before months ago, and I'll say it again now:

I am a semi-elite runner. I know of at least two running buddies (both of whom are way, way, fitter than you think you are), both my age, who had Covid. The first is an idiot who got it at a party and was sick as hell for a week, and had lingering weakness for over a month. The other was also extremely sick for about two weeks and ended up with fears about heart problems, going back and forth to the hospital for various tests. He is just now, five months later, back to about the same fitness level he was at before. 

I don't care who the hell you think you are, or what you think your statistical chances are of getting sick; if you're not afraid of contracting this disease, you're a certified, grade-A dumbass. If you're scared of the vaccine but not the disease itself, then you're even dumber. 

I'm 35 (was 34 when I got COVID last August). It barely touched me, other than a nearly two-week long total loss of taste and smell. I've had bouts with the flu, even colds where I felt way worse, and for longer. Only really noticed the cough at night for about a week.

It put my fiancee, also 34 at the time (she's 4 months older than me) into the hospital for 4 days, although she never had any severe breathing problems she had extreme weakness/lethargy and wild blood pressure fluctuations. It also sent her into kidney failure and she is now on dialysis (granted, she had some preexisting conditions that predisposed her to kidney issues, but her function levels were holding their own before COVID).

My friend Dan, a year older and a heavier guy, was in a coma on a ventilator for almost two weeks, nearly died, and still deals with lingering shortness of breath and weakness. He got it early in the pandemic (late March of 2020) when hardly anything was known about COVID-19, let alone how to treat severe cases, so he was lucky to survive.

[schoeppeya]

21 minutes ago, Malacka11 said:

I said it before months ago, and I'll say it again now:

I am a semi-elite runner. I know of at least two running buddies (both of whom are way, way, fitter than you think you are), both my age, who had Covid. The first is an idiot who got it at a party and was sick as hell for a week, and had lingering weakness for over a month. The other was also extremely sick for about two weeks and ended up with fears about heart problems, going back and forth to the hospital for various tests. He is just now, five months later, back to about the same fitness level he was at before. 

I don't care who the hell you think you are, or what you think your statistical chances are of getting sick; if you're not afraid of contracting this disease, you're a certified, grade-A dumbass. If you're scared of the vaccine but not the disease itself, then you're even dumber. 

Statistics don’t lie my man. I can give you probably three dozen anecdotal accounts of people I know my age or older, in worse shape, who had basically zero symptoms. 
 

I was an EOD tech in the Army. My personal risk tolerance is incredibly far away from wherever Covid ranks. 
 

ETA- if the stats don’t matter and worse case scenarios do, surely you can understand why people are scared of vaccines 

[Malacka11]

13 minutes ago, schoeppeya said:

Statistics don’t lie my man. I can give you probably three dozen anecdotal accounts of people I know my age or older, in worse shape, who had basically zero symptoms. 
 

I was an EOD tech in the Army. My personal risk tolerance is incredibly far away from wherever Covid ranks. 

That's fair, but I just can't grasp how you wouldn't be at least somewhat concerned about contracting the disease. 

If anything, I would expect that a job like that would make you more concerned about the risk associated with Covid. I know my father, who almost died several times in Iraq, takes Covid more seriously than practically anyone I know. 

[Hoosier]

I wonder if the decision to not send additional vaccine to Michigan would have been made anyway or if one of the reasons is because they knew this pause of J&J was coming.  Hopefully there's enough supply of the other 2 to accommodate everybody who already had an appointment scheduled.

[winterwx21]

48 minutes ago, Malacka11 said:

I said it before months ago, and I'll say it again now:

I am a semi-elite runner. I know of at least two running buddies (both of whom are way, way, fitter than you think you are), both my age, who had Covid. The first is an idiot who got it at a party and was sick as hell for a week, and had lingering weakness for over a month. The other was also extremely sick for about two weeks and ended up with fears about heart problems, going back and forth to the hospital for various tests. He is just now, five months later, back to about the same fitness level he was at before. 

I don't care who the hell you think you are, or what you think your statistical chances are of getting sick; if you're not afraid of contracting this disease, you're a certified, grade-A dumbass. If you're scared of the vaccine but not the disease itself, then you're even dumber. 

I'm not afraid of contracting the disease because I already had it and it had almost no impact on me. All I had was a scratchy throat, a slight headache and a little congestion. So I'm not a dumbass ... I already know how my body reacted to the virus. Both my cardiologist and primary care doctor told me my chance of getting severely ill from Covid is almost zero because my heart/lungs and immune system are much stronger than average people. My resting heart rate is 36, which is very rare, and my cardiologist told me that my heart and lungs are stronger than most 18 year old athletes even though I'm in my 40s. Different runners have different fitness levels. Not all runners are extremely fit. Some have lower to moderate moderate fitness levels. Don't act as if you know what everyone's risk level is.

So yes, I am more worried about the vaccine than I am of Covid. And I'd rather die from being struck by lightning than a blood clot from a vaccine. When you take a vaccine you're doing something that's supposed to protect you, so imagine dying from it instead. To me that's the worst type of tragedy there is, except for being murdered. So I am not ok with even the tiniest chance of something happening from the vaccine. I do all this work (exercise) to keep myself in top shape, so I'd much rather rely on the natural protection. If I wasn't at extremely low Covid risk, I'm sure I would feel differently and get the vaccine. These vaccines are a great thing. I just think the very small percentage of people that are at super low Covid risk due to being athletes can not get the vaccine and it can be considered a reasonable decision. A lot of baseball teams right now are having a hard time getting to 85% vaccination which would take away restrictions. That's because there are plenty of athletes like me that don't want the vaccine. The decision should be respected.

[TimB]

14 minutes ago, winterwx21 said:

I'm not afraid of contracting the disease because I already had it and it had almost no impact on me. All I had was a scratchy throat, a slight headache and a little congestion. So I'm not a dumbass ... I already know how my body reacted to the virus. Both my cardiologist and primary care doctor told me my chance of getting severely ill from Covid is almost zero because my heart/lungs and immune system are much stronger than average people. My resting heart rate is 36, which is very rare, and my cardiologist told me that my heart and lungs are stronger than most 18 year old athletes even though I'm in my 40s. Different runners have different fitness levels. Not all runners are extremely fit. Some have lower to moderate moderate fitness levels. Don't act as if you know what everyone's risk level is.

So yes, I am more worried about the vaccine than I am of Covid. And I'd rather die from being struck by lightning than a blood clot from a vaccine. When you take a vaccine you're doing something that's supposed to protect you, so imagine dying from it instead. To me that's the worst type of tragedy there is, except for being murdered. So I am not ok with even the tiniest chance of something happening from the vaccine. I do all this work (exercise) to keep myself in top shape, so I'd much rather rely on the natural protection. If I wasn't at extremely low risk, I'm sure I would feel differently and get the vaccine. These vaccines are a great thing. I just think the very small percentage of people that are at super low risk due to being athletes can not get the vaccine and it can be considered a reasonable decision. A lot of baseball teams right now are having a hard time getting to 85% vaccination which would take away restrictions. That's because there are plenty of athletes like me that don't want the vaccine. The decision should be respected.

Baseball has plenty of players who are built like Bartolo Colon or David Wells or Prince Fielder, all of whom would have at least some risk of severe covid. Hell, I’m fairly certain that Babe Ruth would have died of covid if it had been around in his time. I get your point, but baseball might be the wrong sport to choose if we want to talk about extremely healthy people in athlete level shape.

[winterwx21]

4 minutes ago, TimB84 said:

Baseball has plenty of players who are built like Bartolo Colon or David Wells or Prince Fielder, all of whom would have at least some risk of severe covid. I get your point, but baseball might be the wrong sport to choose if we want to talk about extremely healthy people in athlete level shape.

No question about that. There are plenty of baseball players that are not in great shape. But, I think the majority are in great shape and I heard that quite a few were refusing the vaccine. I know several in great shape players that are on the NY Mets (my team) that were saying that they might not get the vaccine, and obviously some followed through since the team didn't get to 85%. So I just decided to use that to make a point. I think when you're an athlete and in great shape, severe Covid risk is so low that not getting the vaccine isn't a big deal. But for people that are not in great shape, getting the vaccine is critical. I'm sure I would be desperate for the vaccine if I had any condition that put me at higher risk. But since I'm at extremely low risk and already had the virus, I have no fear of it at all and would rather rely on natural protection. Probably my biggest fear in life is having a reaction to a medication or anything unnatural that I put into my body. I can't even remember the last time I took any kind of medication, even something like tylenol or an antibiotic. I think it has been more than 10 years. So you can understand why I would be worried about a vaccine too. I'm a health nut that likes to rely on the natural protection of diet/exercise to stay healthy. So far that approach has worked well for me, so I don't want to make changes.

[Malacka11]

7 minutes ago, winterwx21 said:

I'm not afraid of contracting the disease because I already had it and it had almost no impact on me. All I had was a scratchy throat, a slight headache and a little congestion. So I'm not a dumbass ... I already know how my body reacted to the virus. Both my cardiologist and primary care doctor told me my chance of getting severely ill from Covid is almost zero because my heart/lungs and immune system are much stronger than average people. My resting heart rate is 36, which is very rare, and my cardiologist told me that my heart and lungs are stronger than most 18 year old athletes even though I'm in my 40s. Different runners have different fitness levels. Not all runners are extremely fit. Some have lower to moderate moderate fitness levels. Don't act as if you know what everyone's risk level is.

So yes, I am more worried about the vaccine than I am of Covid. And I'd rather die from being struck by lightning than a blood clot from a vaccine. When you take a vaccine you're doing something that's supposed to protect you, so imagine dying from it instead. To me that's the worst type of tragedy there is, except for being murdered. So I am not ok with even the tiniest chance of something happening from the vaccine. I do all this work (exercise) to keep myself in top shape, so I'd much rather rely on the natural protection. If I wasn't at extremely low Covid risk, I'm sure I would feel differently and get the vaccine. These vaccines are a great thing. I just think the very small percentage of people that are at super low Covid risk due to being athletes can not get the vaccine and it can be considered a reasonable decision. A lot of baseball teams right now are having a hard time getting to 85% vaccination which would take away restrictions. That's because there are plenty of athletes like me that don't want the vaccine. The decision should be respected.

Okay Captain America...

I don't want to read between the lines too hard, but I'm not sure how any of these people would be able to confirm that your immune system is so god-like unless you had specific tests done to show so. Having a strong cardiovascular system is great, but I'm really not sure how much it helps against Covid. 

I'm not acting like I know what everyone's risk level is, but I'd wager that few people are more fit than my friends and I with our sub 9:30 3200 times, and if they were very ill with the disease, then I think everyone else should be concerned too- or at least be willing to drop the whole linear healthy = less severe case argument. 

You're still wrong for worrying more about the vaccine than Covid, even if you are a superhuman because literally not a single person on Earth has died of the vaccine. If your heart is that superbly strong, then I highly doubt you have to worry about any kind of clotting. It's too early to tell, but I can guarantee you that all of these vaccine reaction cases have some sort of secondary factor in common that we don't know about yet (like pregnancy, mentioned above). 

I know I bake other people for trash talking scientists, but if your doctors actually told you that you don't need to worry about Covid because you're so healthy, verbatim, then they are morons. Being healthy helps, but it does not guarantee that you won't be severely ill. There were a lot of other factors involved with determining the severity of your case, so don't pat yourself on the back too hard. 

[Malacka11]

Diet and exercise do very little against infectious diseases. Fine, I'll buy in that your immune system is excellent, and that's great! But even the best immune system in the world will get shat upon by a virus like Ebola or smallpox. The reason you've remained healthy for so long is because as a species, we've invented technology and practices that limit disease spread. 

[BuffaloWeather]

28 minutes ago, winterwx21 said:

I'm not afraid of contracting the disease because I already had it and it had almost no impact on me. All I had was a scratchy throat, a slight headache and a little congestion. So I'm not a dumbass ... I already know how my body reacted to the virus. Both my cardiologist and primary care doctor told me my chance of getting severely ill from Covid is almost zero because my heart/lungs and immune system are much stronger than average people. My resting heart rate is 36, which is very rare, and my cardiologist told me that my heart and lungs are stronger than most 18 year old athletes even though I'm in my 40s. Different runners have different fitness levels. Not all runners are extremely fit. Some have lower to moderate moderate fitness levels. Don't act as if you know what everyone's risk level is.

So yes, I am more worried about the vaccine than I am of Covid. And I'd rather die from being struck by lightning than a blood clot from a vaccine. When you take a vaccine you're doing something that's supposed to protect you, so imagine dying from it instead. To me that's the worst type of tragedy there is, except for being murdered. So I am not ok with even the tiniest chance of something happening from the vaccine. I do all this work (exercise) to keep myself in top shape, so I'd much rather rely on the natural protection. If I wasn't at extremely low Covid risk, I'm sure I would feel differently and get the vaccine. These vaccines are a great thing. I just think the very small percentage of people that are at super low Covid risk due to being athletes can not get the vaccine and it can be considered a reasonable decision. A lot of baseball teams right now are having a hard time getting to 85% vaccination which would take away restrictions. That's because there are plenty of athletes like me that don't want the vaccine. The decision should be respected.

Would you not take Chemo or radiation if you got cancer with this type of reasoning? 

[winterwx21]

10 minutes ago, Malacka11 said:

Okay Captain America...

I don't want to read between the lines too hard, but I'm not sure how any of these people would be able to confirm that your immune system is so god-like unless you had specific tests done to show so. Having a strong cardiovascular system is great, but I'm really not sure how much it helps against Covid. 

I'm not acting like I know what everyone's risk level is, but I'd wager that few people are more fit than my friends and I with our sub 9:30 3200 times, and if they were very ill with the disease, then I think everyone else should be concerned too- or at least be willing to drop the whole linear healthy = less severe case argument. 

You're still wrong for worrying more about the vaccine than Covid, even if you are a superhuman because literally not a single person on Earth has died of the vaccine. If your heart is that superbly strong, then I highly doubt you have to worry about any kind of clotting. It's too early to tell, but I can guarantee you that all of these vaccine reaction cases have some sort of secondary factor in common that we don't know about yet (like pregnancy, mentioned above). 

I know I bake other people for trash talking scientists, but if your doctors actually told you that you don't need to worry about Covid because you're so healthy, verbatim, then they are morons. Being healthy helps, but it does not guarantee that you won't be severely ill. There were a lot of other factors involved with determining the severity of your case, so don't pat yourself on the back too hard. 

A strong cardiovascular system helps tremendously against Covid. Studies have shown that. Covid brings inflammation to the heart/arteries, so if they are very strong they are much more likely to be able to stand Covid. Any doctor will tell you that. And you can't say that no person has died from the vaccine. There have been people that have died from the blood clots. That's why the Britain health regulator has told people under 30 that they should get a different vaccine. People have died. And there have been many deaths after vaccines in this country. Someone posted the story of the 39 year old healthy Utah woman that got extremely sick right after the vaccine and died of liver failure. It's impossible to PROVE that the vaccine did it, as a medical examiner explained. But it's very possible that the vaccine caused it.  I'm sorry but I'm not ok with any vaccine death risk at all. I already had Covid and it had very little impact on me. I will keep doing what I'm doing to give myself natural protection.

[mattb65]

3 hours ago, Powerball said:

Posting a graph for others to interpret the data themselves is one thing.

Editorializing the numbers on a graph with conclusions not based on scientific evidence, such as...

"Once 60 - 70% of people are vaccinated, we'll reach herd immunity" 

or 

"80% of people are vaccinated." 

or 

"We'll be at herd immunty by the end of May."

...is misinformation, which is what several people were doing.

There's a difference. But nice try though. 

 

The graph shows a dashed line continuing to 80% in May. It's just a graphical form of what they posted. 

No one said 80% are vaccinated,  they projected current rates out in time just like the graph does. 

60-70% immunized may be a sufficient amount to achieve herd immunity, we don't know. They posted their opinions, why do you have to be thought police by calling it misinformation. 

You're  too much...

[TimB]

1 minute ago, BuffaloWeather said:

Would you not take Chemo or radiation if you got cancer with this type of reasoning? 

He won’t get cancer, I’m sure that’s what he’ll tell you.

[winterwx21]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloWeather said:

Would you not take Chemo or radiation if you got cancer with this type of reasoning? 

I certainly would take something if I had to. But I'm hopeful that the natural protection of diet/exercise will keep me healthy for a long time.

[winterwx21]

1 minute ago, TimB84 said:

He won’t get cancer, I’m sure that’s what he’ll tell you.

I would never say that. I lower risk through diet/exercise, but realize it's still possible to get cancer.

[Malacka11]

I can guarantee you that even the health foods you eat contain more "weird" things than the Covid vaccine. The vaccine is honestly an incredibly simple thing, and it is essentially impossible for it to kill you or harm you in any way.

[BuffaloWeather]

Just now, Malacka11 said:

I can guarantee you that even the health foods you eat contain more "weird" things than the Covid vaccine. The vaccine is honestly an incredibly simple thing, and it is essentially impossible for it to kill you or harm you in any way.

My coworker is a huge anti vaxxer and she went to Mcdonalds yesterday for lunch and smoked a cigarette as she was leaving. 

[mattb65]

2 hours ago, OSUmetstud said:

I could understand the thinking, but it's still misguided at the reported level. The risk is far greater of severe effects/dying of covid in a younger individual than a blood clot from this vaccine. 

People will assume they can avoid covid or assume that even if they get unlucky and catch itthat they'll probably be fine. 

On the other hand they have to actively choose to get a vaccine that they've now heard May cause blood clots.

Even though the risk of blood clots appears to be extremely low,  I can easily see the thought process behind someone saying nope to choosing J&J or AstraZeneca because it is now a known risk that is within their control.  Catching covid and the risks of infection is a much more nebulous risk. 

Tough position for the FDA/CDC if they said nothing it seems like they may be hiding something, if they do what they've done, the media and everyone freaks out.

[OSUmetstud]

1 minute ago, mattb65 said:

People will assume they can avoid covid or assume that even if they get unlucky and catch itthat they'll probably be fine. 

On the other hand they have to actively choose to get a vaccine that they've now heard May cause blood clots.

Even though the risk of blood clots appears to be extremely low,  I can easily see the thought process behind someone saying nope to choosing J&J or AstraZeneca because it is now a known risk that is within their control.  Catching covid and the risks of infection is a much more nebulous risk. 

Tough position for the FDA/CDC if they said nothing it seems like they may be hiding something, if they do what they've done, the media and everyone freaks out.

Yes. Im okay with the pause so they can better to analyze and quantify the risk. 

 

[OSUmetstud]

5 minutes ago, BuffaloWeather said:

My coworker is a huge anti vaxxer and she went to Mcdonalds yesterday for lunch and smoked a cigarette as she was leaving. 

All american meal right there. 

[TimB]

13 minutes ago, BuffaloWeather said:

My coworker is a huge anti vaxxer and she went to Mcdonalds yesterday for lunch and smoked a cigarette as she was leaving. 

By a huge anti vaxxer, do you mean an anti vaxxer who is huge, or someone who is very anti vax? The former would make her very high risk.

[Malacka11]

https://www.statnews.com/2021/04/13/researchers-search-for-answers-in-puzzle-of-blood-clots-and-covid-vaccines-and-see-some-clues/

Here is a really interesting article about what might be the cause of the clotting cases. As we collectively figured, it seems likely that all those people have some sort of very small immune condition that might allow the vaccines made from adenovirus (J&J, Aztra) to interact with PF4.

[winterwx21]

20 minutes ago, Malacka11 said:

I can guarantee you that even the health foods you eat contain more "weird" things than the Covid vaccine. The vaccine is honestly an incredibly simple thing, and it is essentially impossible for it to kill you or harm you in any way.

BTW you were asking about how much having a strong cardiovascular system can protect against Covid. A couple months ago I posted a study that looked at people that did treadmill stress tests and later tested positive for Covid. Each level of better fitness on the treadmill resulted in a lower hospitalization rate. Fitness level really matters when it comes to Covid risk. That's why of all the athletes in college and pro sports that have tested positive, it's incredibly rare that these athletes end up in the hospital.

Look. Other countries stopped the vaccine at times. The Britain health regulator has recommended people under 30 not take this type of vaccine, and now some US health officials are saying pause. This is not just me making stuff up. These are health experts. There is legitimate concern about this type of vaccine. Enough that healthy young people should consider the risk. The other type of vaccines seem much safer, thankfully. I've said enough on this subject. Everyone have a good day.

[Malacka11]

1 minute ago, winterwx21 said:

BTW you were asking about how much having a strong cardiovascular system can protect against Covid. A couple months ago I posted a study that looked at people that did treadmill stress tests and later tested positive for Covid. Each level of better fitness on the treadmill resulted in a lower hospitalization rate. Fitness level really matters when it comes to Covid risk. That's why of all the athletes in college and pro sports that have tested positive, it's incredibly rare that these athletes end up in the hospital.

Look. Other countries stopped the vaccine at times. The Britain health minister has recommended people under 30 not take this type of vaccine, and now some US health officials are saying pause. This is not just me making stuff up. These are health experts. There is legitimate concern about this type of vaccine. Enough that healthy young people should consider the risk. The other type of vaccines seem much safer, thankfully. I've said enough on this subject. Everyone have a good day.

6 people so far out of six million have had this response. Six. One of them has died. All of the public officials who are halting vaccine rollout over this are stooges because there is literally no issue. What I don't understand about your logic, I really don't, is that you're saying you're fine with going on about with your life because what... Covid has a 99.7% survivability rate? Okay, well the J&J vaccine has a survivability rate that is far higher than even that, at 99.99998%. And that's just the J&J vaccine, others are even safer than that.