Coronavirus

[winterwx21]

25 minutes ago, BuffaloWeather said:

I mean unless you're more in shape than this guy is...? This guy is a workout warrior and got slammed by covid. I'll take the vaccine over getting sick like this. 

https://www.is.fi/nhl/art-2000007814144.html

Ristolainen has been suffering from a bad case of COVID-19

- Says he has gone through every possible symptom. He has asked around the league and no one else has had it this bad.

- His oxygen levels had dropped significantly and doing anything at all made him extremely tired

-After a couple of days his symptoms got better only to come back in a different form, chest pains for an example.

-When he had his chest pains, he felt like his heart is going to rip in two when walking up the stairs. Says couple of nights he felt like he wasn't sure if he's going to wake up.

-"I got healthy papers from the doctors but physically I am in such a bad shape that i have a long road ahead of me until I'm fit to play." (Despite this he also says that he can maybe see himself coming back some time next week, but not certain)

He sarcastically remarks that of course if he's going to get it, he'd get it when he's playing the best hockey of his career.

That's a very rare case. There are tons of in great shape athletes all across sports that have gotten Covid and had mild or no symptoms. Who knows why he reacted to it so badly, but it's extremely rare for that to happen to an athlete.

[TimB]

1 minute ago, winterwx21 said:

That's a very rare case. There are tons of in great shape athletes all across sports that have gotten Covid and had mild or no symptoms. Who knows why he reacted to it so badly, but it's extremely rare for that to happen to an athlete.

What percentage of our population consists of professional athletes? 0.01%, if that? You can’t compare the general population to a professional athlete who survived covid with no lasting effects.

[Santa Clause]

15 hours ago, Hoosier said:

I strongly believe we should try to get as many people vaccinated as possible.  But as far as those who are not jumping to get a covid vaccine, I'm not going to lump them all in one basket and look at them as the enemy.  For me, it depends on their reasoning.  If it's the generic "vaccines bad", I'm not sympathetic to that.  However, if somebody recently had covid and wants to hold off a bit and maybe allow someone more in need to get ahead in line, I'm cool.  Or if somebody wants to wait until it gets out of EUA territory, ok.  Personally, it makes no difference to me whether it is EUA or full approval, but I respect those who view it differently.  Or maybe someone just doesn't want to put up with the possibility of side effects.  If you're young and healthy, particularly in your teens/20s, there's a real possibility that you will feel worse from the vaccine side effects than you would from covid.  But that could also be a miscalculation and you'd end up feeling worse with covid.  Point is, I don't look at it as black and white.

We are still losing almost 1000 people per day.  I think most reasonable folks would agree that is unacceptably high.  But there comes a point where we're going to just have to live with this in some form, because 0 cases/0 deaths ain't walking through the door anytime soon.  I don't mean to sound cold, but it is what it is.  I lost a family member to covid so I'm aware of how much it sucks.  

Well said.

[Hoosier]

53 minutes ago, dta1984 said:

Fwiw this story mentions it would be hard to determine a vaccine related cause of death.  Still, there are many of these stories, coincidental or not.

"Dr. Erik Christensen, Utah's chief Medical Examiner, said proving vaccine injury as a cause of death almost never happens."

https://kutv.com/news/local/utah-woman-39-dies-4-days-after-2nd-does-of-covid-19-vaccine-autopsy-ordered

 

This particular one is more curious than most.  The odds of a 39 year old person dying are not particularly high to begin with, but when you look at the timeline of when that woman experienced symptoms and then died, it is natural to wonder if the vaccine triggered something. 

As was said, use VAERS with extreme caution.  Very easy to twist data from there.

[schoeppeya]

3 minutes ago, TimB84 said:

I’ll try to spend my afternoon working and not sitting on Twitter making a montage of all of the people with views on your side of the political aisle being keyboard warriors themselves, but it’s going to be tough. Keyboard warriors are prevalent on both sides of the aisle, and in no greater numbers on one side than the other.

They need a bigger like button for this one. This is literally the reason I’m arguing with Stebo and Co. FYI, my introduction to him in this thread was while primarily red states were spiking during the summer and he was going on and on about how it’s because they were red states where no one was wearing masks. At the time I lived in OKC and hadn’t seen anyone in public without a mask on in months. It was comical. Theres a better way to talk to the other side of the aisle then personally attacking them. People have to start AT LEAST challenging the squeaky wheels and emotionally driven arguments or they keep getting louder. Theres a better way to talk about all of this stuff. 

[schoeppeya]

2 minutes ago, TimB84 said:

What percentage of our population consists of professional athletes? 0.01%, if that? You can’t compare the general population to a professional athlete who survived covid with no lasting effects.

He’s responding to a guy that tried to use professional athletes as a reference, not using that example himself. 

[winterwx21]

2 minutes ago, TimB84 said:

What percentage of our population consists of professional athletes? 0.01%, if that? You can’t compare the general population to a professional athlete who survived covid with no lasting effects.

I agree. I've said over and over again here that athletes are at much lower risk than the general population because they get their hearts and lungs so strong due to the exercise. That's why I feel good about my situation, as I have gotten myself into athlete level shape with all the running that I do. And it's why I encourage everyone to get into great shape with exercise. It is proven to greatly reduce Covid risk.

[TimB]

Just now, winterwx21 said:

I agree. I've said over and over again here that athletes are at much lower risk than the general population because they get their hearts and lungs so strong due to the exercise. That's why I feel good about my situation, as I have gotten myself into athlete level shape with all the running that I do. And it's why I encourage everyone to get into great shape with exercise. It is proven to greatly reduce Covid risk.

I’m too far gone to get into athlete level shape at this point in my life ... I’ll take the vaccine instead.

[winterwx21]

4 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

This particular one is more curious than most.  The odds of a 39 year old person dying are not particularly high to begin with, but when you look at the timeline of when that woman experienced symptoms and then died, it is natural to wonder if the vaccine triggered something. 

As was said, use VAERS with extreme caution.  Very easy to twist data from there.

Yeah. A healthy 39 year old gets extremely sick right after the vaccine, and continues to go downhill and dies. You can't tell me that wasn't the vaccine that killed her. I know vaccine deaths are extremely rare, but it does happen.

[winterwx21]

Just now, TimB84 said:

I’m too far gone to get into athlete level shape at this point in my life ... I’ll take the vaccine instead.

And that's certainly fine. These vaccines offer great protection. For people that are not vaccinated, being in great shape is very important to reduce risk.

[TimB]

Just now, winterwx21 said:

Yeah. A healthy 39 year old gets extremely sick right after the vaccine, and continues to go downhill and dies. You can't tell me that wasn't the vaccine that killed her. I know vaccine deaths are extremely rare, but it does happen.

I’m sure we can find plenty of examples long before COVID of healthy 39 year olds who got some sort of mystery illness, went downhill, and died. No, I can’t tell you it wasn’t the vaccine that killed her. But I certainly can’t tell you it definitively was the vaccine either. And I don’t think it’s any more likely to have been the vaccine than some other reason.

[TimB]

Just now, winterwx21 said:

And that's certainly fine. These vaccines offer great protection. For people that are not vaccinated, being in great shape is very important to reduce risk.

This is America. What percentage of people who choose not to get the vaccine do you think are in great shape? Lol.

[schoeppeya]

2 minutes ago, TimB84 said:

This is America. What percentage of people who choose not to get the vaccine do you think are in great shape? Lol.

Hahaha. A lot less than a year ago and it wasn’t high to start with 

[dta1984]

23 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

This particular one is more curious than most.  The odds of a 39 year old person dying are not particularly high to begin with, but when you look at the timeline of when that woman experienced symptoms and then died, it is natural to wonder if the vaccine triggered something. 

As was said, use VAERS with extreme caution.  Very easy to twist data from there.

Thanks, there are many similar stories.  I posted because of the comment by the medical examiner.  Didn't realize it was that hard to pinpoint a vax as the cause.  Could be why we don't see many related deaths, but instead mysterious ones.  

[mattb65]

2 hours ago, WestMichigan said:

Thanks for the information.  I had a co-worker point me to that site and out of curiosity I selected COVID just to see.  I realize some of that data is definitely random people submitting data that hasn't been examined for root cause, however how much of it is real?  Hopefully they follow up and sift through that data to find what is real and what isn't.  Is there another place like this where you can find verified information instead?

CDC is the agency of record for vaccine safety in the US, here's what they have posted regarding deaths that have occurred in close time frame after vaccination.

"Over 145 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through March 29, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 2,509 reports of death (0.0017%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. CDC and FDA physicians review each case report of death as soon as notified and CDC requests medical records to further assess reports. A review of available clinical information including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records revealed no evidence that vaccination contributed to patient deaths."

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

[winterwx21]

1 hour ago, schoeppeya said:

Hahaha. A lot less than a year ago and it wasn’t high to start with 

That's the sad thing. So many health experts have stressed how important it is to reduce weight and get into better shape, to reduce severe Covid risk. Yet so many people did the complete opposite and put on lots of weight during lockdown, because they misunderstood what a stay at home order meant. It didn't mean sit on the couch all day and overeat. There was no rule against going outside and getting some exercise. A small percentage of people used the extra stay at home time to get into better shape through exercise, but sadly the majority did the opposite. Not even realizing that they were putting themselves at higher risk of dying from Covid by getting into worse shape. An ironic twist, as some health experts have put it.

[winterwx21]

16 minutes ago, mattb65 said:

CDC is the agency of record for vaccine safety in the US, here's what they have posted regarding deaths that have occurred in close time frame after vaccination.

"Over 145 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through March 29, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 2,509 reports of death (0.0017%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. CDC and FDA physicians review each case report of death as soon as notified and CDC requests medical records to further assess reports. A review of available clinical information including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records revealed no evidence that vaccination contributed to patient deaths."

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

Obviously it's extremely difficult to prove. But when a completely healthy young person gets extremely sick right after a vaccine and dies, there's obviously at least some chance that the vaccine caused it. When a healthy 39 year old's liver goes into failure right after a vaccine, it's hard to believe that it wasn't the vaccine that caused it. The odds of a healthy 39 year old going into liver failure are incredibly low. We know though that these cases would be extremely rare, and these vaccines are extremely safe overall. Overall the benefits of the vaccines tremendously outweight the risks.

[Hoosier]

I wonder what was ultimately determined in the autopsy of the Utah woman.  It sounds like there was some kind of fatal liver failure... question is why.  I guess it may be up to the family to disclose anything.  The father himself got the vaccine afterwards so not like he is out there with an agenda to undermine the vaccine.

[TimB]

19 minutes ago, winterwx21 said:

That's the sad thing. So many health experts have stressed how important it is to reduce weight and get into better shape, to reduce severe Covid risk. Yet so many people did the complete opposite and put on lots of weight during lockdown, because they misunderstood what a stay at home order meant. It didn't mean sit on the couch all day and overeat. There was no rule against going outside and getting some exercise. A small percentage of people used the extra stay at home time to get into better shape through exercise, but sadly the majority did the opposite. Not even realizing that they were putting themselves at higher risk of dying from Covid by getting into worse shape. An ironic twist, as some health experts have put it.

I’m not entirely sure it has much to do with people misunderstanding the stay at home orders as much as it has to do with anxiety, depression, boredom, etc. that was compounded by everything pandemic-related.

That said, I’m slightly overweight but by no means fat. I’ve stress eaten a lot during this pandemic, but I’ve managed not to gain or lose any weight because I’m not out of the house where fast food is readily available nearly as much.

10 minutes ago, winterwx21 said:

Obviously it's extremely difficult to prove. But when a completely healthy young person gets extremely sick right after a vaccine and dies, there's obviously at least some chance that the vaccine caused it. When a healthy 39 year old's liver goes into failure right after a vaccine, it's hard to believe that it wasn't the vaccine that caused it. The odds of a healthy 39 year old going into liver failure are incredibly low. We know though that these cases would be extremely rare, and these vaccines are extremely safe overall. Overall the benefits of the vaccines tremendously outweight the risks.

It’s no more unreasonable to believe the vaccine didn’t cause it than it is to believe the vaccine did cause it, until it’s proven to be one or the other.

[winterwx21]

1 minute ago, TimB84 said:

I’m not entirely sure it has much to do with people misunderstanding the stay at home orders as much as it has to do with anxiety, depression, boredom, etc. that was compounded by everything pandemic-related.

It’s no more unreasonable to believe the vaccine didn’t cause it than it is to believe the vaccine did cause it, until it’s proven to be one or the other.

It certainly could be either. Maybe the vaccine caused it and maybe it didn't. But when a healthy 39  year old gets extremely sick hours after the vaccine and goes into liver failure, there's at least some chance that the vaccine caused it. And there are enough of these stories that it's very likely that the vaccine causes some deaths. We've seen a medical examiner comment that it's pretty much impossible to prove even if the vaccine does cause it, so that's why we don't see official vaccine deaths. Obviously the amount is extremely low though, and low enough that the vaccine benefits outweight the risks by a tremendous amount.

[TimB]

5 minutes ago, winterwx21 said:

It certainly could be either. Maybe the vaccine caused it and maybe it didn't. But when a healthy 39  year old gets extremely sick hours after the vaccine and goes into liver failure, there's at least some chance that the vaccine caused it. And there are enough of these stories that it's very likely that the vaccine causes some deaths. We've seen a medical examiner comment that it's pretty much impossible to prove even if the vaccine does cause it, so that's why we don't see official vaccine deaths. Obviously the amount is extremely low though, and low enough that the vaccine benefits outweight the risks by a tremendous amount.

I guess the upshot of that, to me, is that if we assume the vaccine did cause those deaths, your chances of dying from the vaccine are similar to your chances that the flight you booked will crash, and that doesn’t stop most people from flying.

[OSUmetstud]

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2778234?guestAccessKey=0b94e087-4b87-458d-b869-a1aa164eb8a6&utm_source=silverchair&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=article_alert-jama&utm_content=olf&utm_term=033121

 

[BuffaloWeather]

1 minute ago, OSUmetstud said:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2778234?guestAccessKey=0b94e087-4b87-458d-b869-a1aa164eb8a6&utm_source=silverchair&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=article_alert-jama&utm_content=olf&utm_term=033121

 

That is quite the high number for unintentional injuries. Are the majority of those traffic deaths? 

[TimB]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloWeather said:

That is quite the high number for unintentional injuries. Are the majority of those traffic deaths? 

The estimate seems to be around 42k for traffic deaths.

[OSUmetstud]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloWeather said:

That is quite the high number for unintentional injuries. Are the majority of those traffic deaths? 

Driven by overdose. It mentions it in the paper.  

[Hoosier]

30 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2778234?guestAccessKey=0b94e087-4b87-458d-b869-a1aa164eb8a6&utm_source=silverchair&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=article_alert-jama&utm_content=olf&utm_term=033121

 

That is something.  There were virtually no documented covid deaths in Jan/Feb so almost all of that 345k occurred in 9-10 months.  I know there were times when covid was the #1 cause of death since cancer and heart disease tend to have more consistent levels throughout the year without the big peaks and valleys.

I think I saw a report that more people died in the United States in 2020 than any other year on record.  Of course population growth plays a role in that.  

[WestMichigan]

1 hour ago, mattb65 said:

CDC is the agency of record for vaccine safety in the US, here's what they have posted regarding deaths that have occurred in close time frame after vaccination.

"Over 145 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through March 29, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 2,509 reports of death (0.0017%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. CDC and FDA physicians review each case report of death as soon as notified and CDC requests medical records to further assess reports. A review of available clinical information including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records revealed no evidence that vaccination contributed to patient deaths."

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

Thanks.  I hadn't seen that link.

[StormfanaticInd]

Probably explains the surge?

[nwohweather]

Arm is sore as can be from vaccination. Still glad to have it

[StormfanaticInd]

Michigan with another 6k+ day. Hospitalizations are surging also. We know where this leads folks