Coronavirus

[BuffaloWeather]

 

[BuffaloWeather]

4 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

Interesting. Russia has the second highest (tracked) excess deaths in the world at 355 per 100000 

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker

I feel like that metric is the only real one we can go by in terms of overall covid impact. What is the excess death since covid started for the entire globe? Are those statistics even available? Worldometers has us at 2.8 million globally. I was thinking the real death toll is 4-5 million so far? This would put us at by far the worst pandemic in a century

[CorePunch]

1 minute ago, StormfanaticInd said:

I just hope we don't politicize taking the vaccine too much. This needs to be a nonpartisan effort 

Good luck with that. Friendly reminder.

Its is 2021. 

[StormfanaticInd]

8 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

We may be sitting here a few months from now with Brazil having passed the US death toll if they don't get their **** together quickly.

What worries me about them is they don't have nearly the means as the US to tackle this virus 

[TimB]

9 minutes ago, StormfanaticInd said:

I just hope we don't politicize taking the vaccine too much. This needs to be a nonpartisan effort 

Of course it’ll be politicized, everything is. But yes, there needs to be societal pressure. I don’t have a lot of issue with businesses, particularly in the travel and hospitality industry, imposing restrictions on people who choose not to get the vaccine. I do have some qualms about the idea of vaccinated/non-vaccinated sections of restaurants like we did with smokers back in the day, simply because it would probably allow the virus to spread faster among non-vaccinated people if we herd them all into one section like that. (See, I’m not a monster.)

[StormfanaticInd]

7 minutes ago, BuffaloWeather said:

I feel like that metric is the only real one we can go by in terms of overall covid impact. What is the excess death since covid started for the entire globe? Are those statistics even available? Worldometers has us at 2.8 million globally. I was thinking the real death toll is 4-5 million so far? This would put us at by far the worst pandemic in a century

I believe the real number of deaths is much higher also.

[CorePunch]

1 minute ago, TimB84 said:

Of course it’ll be politicized, everything is. But yes, there needs to be societal pressure. I don’t have a lot of issue with businesses, particularly in the travel and hospitality industry, imposing restrictions on people who choose not to get the vaccine. I do have some qualms about the idea of vaccinated/non-vaccinated sections of restaurants like we did with smokers back in the day, simply because it would probably allow the virus to spread faster among non-vaccinated people if we herd them all into one section like that. (See, I’m not a monster.)

There will definitely be legal challenges. Challenging for and against health segregation and denial of services. Will clog the courts for years. 

[TimB]

4 minutes ago, CorePunch said:

There will definitely be legal challenges. Challenging for and against health segregation and denial of services. Will clog the courts for years. 

It depends on if such things are done by the government or if businesses or industries preemptively do these things (perhaps under pressure). There’s nothing saying that if I own a business, or a restaurant, or an airline, that I can’t refuse service to unvaccinated people or put them in their own special section of my business or restaurant or airplane. Problem is, it would be stupid from a business perspective given the percentage of the population we’re talking about.

[schoeppeya]

7 minutes ago, TimB84 said:

Of course it’ll be politicized, everything is. But yes, there needs to be societal pressure. I don’t have a lot of issue with businesses, particularly in the travel and hospitality industry, imposing restrictions on people who choose not to get the vaccine. I do have some qualms about the idea of vaccinated/non-vaccinated sections of restaurants like we did with smokers back in the day, simply because it would probably allow the virus to spread faster among non-vaccinated people if we herd them all into one section like that. (See, I’m not a monster.)

Somebody mentioned it yesterday but there is also a precedent for this. Attending schools, colleges, going to some countries, being in the military, etc. 

[TimB]

Just now, schoeppeya said:

Somebody mentioned it yesterday but there is also a precedent for this. Attending schools, colleges, going to some countries, being in the military, etc. 

Make no mistake about it, I’m perfectly okay with COVID being added to the list of things that certain schools, colleges, countries, military, etc. require you to be vaccinated against.

[CorePunch]

Just now, TimB84 said:

It depends on if such things are done by the government or if businesses or industries preemptively do these things (perhaps under pressure). There’s nothing saying that if I own a business, or a restaurant, or an airline, that I can’t refuse service to unvaccinated people or put them in their own special section of my business or restaurant or airline. Problem is, it would be stupid from a business perspective given the percentage of the population we’re talking about.

There is not much legal immunity for private businesses anymore. Discrimination cases are extremely broad scooped and far reaching. You’d be hard pressed to find a lawyer that wouldn’t jump at an opportunity to win a discrimination case. 

[TimB]

9 hours ago, CorePunch said:

There is not much legal immunity for private businesses anymore. Discrimination cases are extremely broad scooped and far reaching. You’d be hard pressed to find a lawyer that wouldn’t jump at an opportunity to win a discrimination case. 

Even if “people who aren’t vaccinated against COVID” isn’t a protected class? I don’t think this would be an easy type of discrimination case to win, mostly on those grounds.

Edit: on second thought, I imagine “religion” would probably be used as the loophole to get around that. It always is.

Edit 2: I’m not bashing religion at all, I have no issue with believers. I do, however, have an issue with people who use religion as a tool to manipulate people and get what they want. The line of reasoning here would be “I can’t get vaccinated because my religion doesn’t allow it” (blatantly false for most, at least for Christians, but not disputable). “This business won’t serve me because I’m not vaccinated, so they’re discriminating against me on the basis of religion.” So we’ll have a world where businesses can refuse to serve customers because of the owner’s religious beliefs, but other businesses have to serve other customers because of the customer’s “religious beliefs”. 

[schoeppeya]

1 minute ago, TimB84 said:

Make no mistake about it, I’m perfectly okay with COVID being added to the list of things that certain schools, colleges, countries, military, etc. require you to be vaccinated against.

As am I, and Im sure it will be at some point.

[Stebo]

56 minutes ago, BuffaloWeather said:

I feel like that metric is the only real one we can go by in terms of overall covid impact. What is the excess death since covid started for the entire globe? Are those statistics even available? Worldometers has us at 2.8 million globally. I was thinking the real death toll is 4-5 million so far? This would put us at by far the worst pandemic in a century

I would also put it at 4-5 mill at least.

[BuffaloWeather]

12 minutes ago, Stebo said:

I would also put it at 4-5 mill at least.

Thats despite all the medical advancements we've made in the last 100 years. Can you imagine what the death toll would be with the same virus back in the early 19th century?

[Stebo]

1 minute ago, BuffaloWeather said:

Thats despite all the medical advancements we've made in the last 100 years. Can you imagine what the death toll would be with the same virus back in the early 19th century?

I can, it would mirror the Spanish Flu, if not worse.

[RyanDe680]

9 hours ago, schoeppeya said:

Why? Facts and numbers (keep reminding you because you still haven’t done it). 

[luckyweather]

Got my first dose of the Pfizer vaccine yesterday. No side effects, now to wait 3 weeks for my second dose. Very impressively efficient operation managed by the National Guard here in Winnebago County, IL.

 

I didn’t think I’d get an appointment until into April since I’m just a regular old healthy adult but I got the email from the health department Monday and jumped on it.

[BuffaloWeather]

Pretty huge news this morning. Pfizer 91% effectiveness vs south african variant. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/pfizer-says-trials-suggest-covid-vaccine-works-against-south-african-n1262710

[StormfanaticInd]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloWeather said:

Pretty huge news this morning. Pfizer 91% effectiveness vs south african variant. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/pfizer-says-trials-suggest-covid-vaccine-works-against-south-african-n1262710

That's really good to hear. 

[winterwx21]

17 hours ago, Stebo said:

Thank you, this individualism that people keep expressing is what will cause this to never get down to reasonable rates. The longer it is around the better then chances of new variants too. This has to be a team effort, and if it means shunning those who don't want to be part of the team so be it. I don't need their selfish behavior to cause someone I love to die.

The person you love won't die because they will be vaccinated. Anyone that's more vulnerable to severe illness has the option to be protected by vaccination, and they should use that option to protect themselves. These vaccines are extremely effective even against variants. A new study just came out that showed that the Pfizer vaccine is 91% effective even against the South African variant. So the logic that the smaller percentage of lower risk people that choose to not get vaccinated will be putting higher risk people at risk makes no sense, because the higher risk people will be protected by vaccination. If a higher risk person chooses to not get vaccinated, that's on them for taking a big chance.

[StormfanaticInd]

1 minute ago, winterwx21 said:

The person you love won't die because they will be vaccinated. Anyone that's more vulnerable to severe illness has the option to be protected by vaccination, and they should use that option to protect themselves. These vaccines are extremely effective even against variants. A new study just came out that showed that the Pfizer vaccine is 91% effective even against the South African variant. So the logic that the smaller percentage of lower risk people that choose to not get vaccinated will be putting higher risk people at risk makes no sense, because the higher risk people will be protected by vaccination. If a higher risk person chooses to not get vaccinated, that's on them for taking a big chance.

Yall keep saying "high risk"  I know of several healthy individuals who got covid and became severely ill or died. Everyone is at risk period 

[WestMichigan]

Disclaimer - I am not anti vax nor am I saying I won't get the shot.  I am taking a more wait and see approach.  To those who say there are no deaths from the vaccine, The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) Request Form (cdc.gov).  Unless I am misinterpreting the numbers, it appears there have been a number of deaths (1600+) from the COVID vaccines along with a whole host of other side effects.  Most side effects are not much more than a nuisance, but this is not a 100% safe vaccine as many have stated.  There are risks to getting the shot and risks to not getting it.  The risks may not be equal, but they exist in both cases.

[BuffaloWeather]

7 minutes ago, winterwx21 said:

The person you love won't die because they will be vaccinated. Anyone that's more vulnerable to severe illness has the option to be protected by vaccination, and they should use that option to protect themselves. These vaccines are extremely effective even against variants. A new study just came out that showed that the Pfizer vaccine is 91% effective even against the South African variant. So the logic that the smaller percentage of lower risk people that choose to not get vaccinated will be putting higher risk people at risk makes no sense, because the higher risk people will be protected by vaccination. If a higher risk person chooses to not get vaccinated, that's on them for taking a big chance.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/03/few-pro-athletes-had-inflammatory-heart-disease-after-covid

https://www.news-medical.net/health/Long-term-Effects-of-COVID-19-in-Athletes.aspx

[BuffaloWeather]

Just now, WestMichigan said:

Disclaimer - I am not anti vax nor am I saying I won't get the shot.  I am taking a more wait and see approach.  To those who say there are no deaths from the vaccine, The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) Request Form (cdc.gov).  Unless I am misinterpreting the numbers, it appears there have been a number of deaths (1600+) from the COVID vaccines along with a whole host of other side effects.  Most side effects are not much more than a nuisance, but this is not a 100% safe vaccine as many have stated.  There are risks to getting the shot and risks to not getting it.  The risks may not be equal, but they exist in both cases.

Are any vaccines 100% safe? Every time you drive your car out of the driveway you're at the greatest daily risk you'll get until you're elderly. 

[winterwx21]

19 minutes ago, StormfanaticInd said:

Yall keep saying "high risk"  I know of several healthy individuals who got covid and became severely ill or died. Everyone is at risk period 

No one is at zero risk of course, but there are people that are at higher risk and people that are at low risk. The statistics overwhelmingly show that the majority of people that get sick enough to be hospitalized have overweight/obesity/underlying health conditions. If you're completely healthy the risk is very low. Not zero, but very low.

[winterwx21]

12 minutes ago, BuffaloWeather said:

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/03/few-pro-athletes-had-inflammatory-heart-disease-after-covid

https://www.news-medical.net/health/Long-term-Effects-of-COVID-19-in-Athletes.aspx

Definitely good to know that the risk of heart problems for athletes is very low. 0.6% is a very low number, and when it does happen they tend to be mild cases that are easily treatable.

[OSUmetstud]

11 minutes ago, WestMichigan said:

Disclaimer - I am not anti vax nor am I saying I won't get the shot.  I am taking a more wait and see approach.  To those who say there are no deaths from the vaccine, The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) Request Form (cdc.gov).  Unless I am misinterpreting the numbers, it appears there have been a number of deaths (1600+) from the COVID vaccines along with a whole host of other side effects.  Most side effects are not much more than a nuisance, but this is not a 100% safe vaccine as many have stated.  There are risks to getting the shot and risks to not getting it.  The risks may not be equal, but they exist in both cases.

Anyone can report anything in those forms. If there was actually 1600 vaccine related deaths it would be pulled immediately.

This system exists so that scientists can examine data and see if there's a causal link between adverse events and or death and the vaccine. 

3 million or so people die in the US per year. Some of these people would have gotten the vaccine.

These vaccines only have an effect on covid, they don't prevent any other conditions people suffer from or die from. 

[WestMichigan]

14 minutes ago, BuffaloWeather said:

Are any vaccines 100% safe? Every time you drive your car out of the driveway you're at the greatest daily risk you'll get until you're elderly. 

I never said any were.  I posted that because earlier it was said no one had died from COVID vaccines but this database would seem to say otherwise.

[winterwx21]

Just now, OSUmetstud said:

Anyone can report anything in those forms. If there was actually 1600 vaccine related deaths it would be pulled immediately.

This system exists so that scientists can examine data and see if there's a causal link between adverse events and or death and the vaccine. 

3 million or so people die in the US per year. Some of these people would have gotten the vaccine.

These vaccines only have an effect on covid, they don't prevent any other conditions people suffer from or die from. 

Yeah it's impossible to tell how many of those people died from the vaccine and how many were just going to die anyway.