Hoosier Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 I strongly believe we should try to get as many people vaccinated as possible. But as far as those who are not jumping to get a covid vaccine, I'm not going to lump them all in one basket and look at them as the enemy. For me, it depends on their reasoning. If it's the generic "vaccines bad", I'm not sympathetic to that. However, if somebody recently had covid and wants to hold off a bit and maybe allow someone more in need to get ahead in line, I'm cool. Or if somebody wants to wait until it gets out of EUA territory, ok. Personally, it makes no difference to me whether it is EUA or full approval, but I respect those who view it differently. Or maybe someone just doesn't want to put up with the possibility of side effects. If you're young and healthy, particularly in your teens/20s, there's a real possibility that you will feel worse from the vaccine side effects than you would from covid. But that could also be a miscalculation and you'd end up feeling worse with covid. Point is, I don't look at it as black and white. We are still losing almost 1000 people per day. I think most reasonable folks would agree that is unacceptably high. But there comes a point where we're going to just have to live with this in some form, because 0 cases/0 deaths ain't walking through the door anytime soon. I don't mean to sound cold, but it is what it is. I lost a family member to covid so I'm aware of how much it sucks. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 Just now, Hoosier said: I strongly believe we should try to get as many people vaccinated as possible. But as far as those who are not jumping to get a covid vaccine, I'm not going to lump them all in one basket and look at them as the enemy. For me, it depends on their reasoning. If it's the generic "vaccines bad", I'm not sympathetic to that. However, if somebody recently had covid and wants to hold off a bit and maybe allow someone more in need to get ahead in line, I'm cool. Or if somebody wants to wait until it gets out of EUA territory, ok. Personally, it makes no difference to me whether it is EUA or full approval, but I respect those who view it differently. Or maybe someone just doesn't want to put up with the possibility of side effects. If you're young and healthy, particularly in your teens/20s, there's a real possibility that you will feel worse from the vaccine side effects than you would from covid. But that could also be a miscalculation and you'd end up feeling worse with covid. Point is, I don't look at it as black and white. We are still losing almost 1000 people per day. I think most reasonable folks would agree that is unacceptably high. But there comes a point where we're going to just have to live with this in some form, because 0 cases/0 deaths ain't walking through the door anytime soon. I don't mean to sound cold, but it is what it is. I lost a family member to covid so I'm aware of how much it sucks. I dont think anyone is jumping on people who recently had covid. It is wholly the ones that are on the vaccines are bad nonsense. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schoeppeya Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, Hoosier said: I strongly believe we should try to get as many people vaccinated as possible. But as far as those who are not jumping to get a covid vaccine, I'm not going to lump them all in one basket and look at them as the enemy. For me, it depends on their reasoning. If it's the generic "vaccines bad", I'm not sympathetic to that. However, if somebody recently had covid and wants to hold off a bit and maybe allow someone more in need to get ahead in line, I'm cool. Or if somebody wants to wait until it gets out of EUA territory, ok. Personally, it makes no difference to me whether it is EUA or full approval, but I respect those who view it differently. Or maybe someone just doesn't want to put up with the possibility of side effects. If you're young and healthy, particularly in your teens/20s, there's a real possibility that you will feel worse from the vaccine side effects than you would from covid. But that could also be a miscalculation and you'd end up feeling worse with covid. Point is, I don't look at it as black and white. We are still losing almost 1000 people per day. I think most reasonable folks would agree that is unacceptably high. But there comes a point where we're going to just have to live with this in some form, because 0 cases/0 deaths ain't walking through the door anytime soon. I don't mean to sound cold, but it is what it is. I lost a family member to covid so I'm aware of how much it sucks. Fun fact, 40% of people experience some type of side effect from the vaccine and 62% of people have asymptomatic cases of covid. Those number inverse with age, meaning you’re more likely to have worse side effects from the vaccine the younger you are and less likely to have covid symptoms. Meaning for a lot of people you’re literally more likely to feel like shit from the vaccine than from covid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 Just now, schoeppeya said: Fun fact, 40% of people experience some type of side effect from the vaccine and 62% of people have asymptomatic cases of covid. Those number inverse with age, meaning you’re more likely to have worse side effects from the vaccine the younger you are and less likely to have covid symptoms. Mean for a lot of people you’re literally more likely to feel like shit from the vaccine than from covid. Funner fact, that still isn't a reason to not be vaccinated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimB Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, Hoosier said: I strongly believe we should try to get as many people vaccinated as possible. But as far as those who are not jumping to get a covid vaccine, I'm not going to lump them all in one basket and look at them as the enemy. For me, it depends on their reasoning. If it's the generic "vaccines bad", I'm not sympathetic to that. However, if somebody recently had covid and wants to hold off a bit and maybe allow someone more in need to get ahead in line, I'm cool. Or if somebody wants to wait until it gets out of EUA territory, ok. Personally, it makes no difference to me whether it is EUA or full approval, but I respect those who view it differently. Or maybe someone just doesn't want to put up with the possibility of side effects. If you're young and healthy, particularly in your teens/20s, there's a real possibility that you will feel worse from the vaccine side effects than you would from covid. But that could also be a miscalculation and you'd end up feeling worse with covid. Point is, I don't look at it as black and white. We are still losing almost 1000 people per day. I think most reasonable folks would agree that is unacceptably high. But there comes a point where we're going to just have to live with this in some form, because 0 cases/0 deaths ain't walking through the door anytime soon. I don't mean to sound cold, but it is what it is. I lost a family member to covid so I'm aware of how much it sucks. I would venture to guess that the vast majority of people who “want to wait for it to go from EUA to full approval” have no idea what the salient differences are between EUA and full approval. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schoeppeya Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, Stebo said: Funner fact, that still isn't a reason to not be vaccinated. Why? Seriously, use numbers and data to tell me why. Like... what will happen if only 60% of the people under 40 get vaccinated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 Just now, schoeppeya said: Why? Seriously, use numbers and data to tell me why. Like... what will happen if only 60% of the people under 40 get vaccinated. The virus still will run rampant over the other 40% and it can be deadly to people under that age especially with variants. I mean if you don't understand this I don't know what to tell you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malacka11 Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 I just don't get it. What's so hard about this? It's never been about *you*, it's about the people you interact with. It's highly likely that I'd be worse off with the vaccine than with Covid but shit, I'd still get the vaccine because guess what? The vaccine hasn't killed anyone. It's literally that cut-and-dry. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUmetstud Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 19 minutes ago, schoeppeya said: Fun fact, 40% of people experience some type of side effect from the vaccine and 62% of people have asymptomatic cases of covid. Those number inverse with age, meaning you’re more likely to have worse side effects from the vaccine the younger you are and less likely to have covid symptoms. Meaning for a lot of people you’re literally more likely to feel like shit from the vaccine than from covid. I think that 62% is inflated. The more recent estimates seem much lower. This particular report by the CDC only estimates 12% asymptomatic. The "side effects" are literally your immune system working. I wish people would just be cool with that lol. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schoeppeya Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 4 minutes ago, Malacka11 said: I just don't get it. What's so hard about this? It's never been about *you*, it's about the people you interact with. It's highly likely that I'd be worse off with the vaccine than with Covid but shit, I'd still get the vaccine because guess what? The vaccine hasn't killed anyone. It's literally that cut-and-dry. Again. If the person you’ve interacted with has gotten the vaccine or willingly passed it up why’s it matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimB Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 59 minutes ago, schoeppeya said: You keep saying that. I’ve been a member since 2013 and lurked for years before that. I’ve spent a lot of time on this forum. There’s also plenty of people who’ve told you you’re out of line, including a mod yesterday. You literally refuse to answer any question I ask you that involves providing data. I don’t think you are stupid, I don’t think you’re an idiot, but I think the way you talk about covid in general is exactly the type of language that stops people from getting the vaccine and further divides the “team” you claim you want to be on. There’s literally five other people yesterday who said exactly the same thing as me so I’m not sure what dynamic you are getting at. @TimB84 Ill ask you the sane question I asked him yesterday. The vaccines so far have shown to be extremely effective at preventing serious cases of covid. If you and everyone else who is comfortable getting it has had the chance to get the vaccine, what’s the point in shaming somebody who wants to wait 6 months or a year until they feel more comfortable getting it? At some point there has to be an acceptable risk tolerance-we do this with basically everything in life. Why are we acting like it has to be zero with covid? ETA-I think this idea that you can “shame” people into getting the vaccine is utter bullshit. I think that’s a guaranteed way to ensure those people will not get it and those of you who do think it’s a good idea have never actually been part of building a team. I think the way to encourage more people to get it is to continue to show it works, it’s safe, and it’s easy to get. And, I’m admittedly pulling this number out of my ass, but I’d guess MAYBE ten percent of people think shunning people who don’t get vacc’d is a good idea. So yes, I would consider that an extreme viewpoint. I’ll start with this statement, and I guarantee that percentage is a lot higher than you think. Beyond that, it’s not about shaming at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schoeppeya Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 7 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said: I think that 62% is inflated. The more recent estimates seem much lower. This particular report by the CDC only estimates 12% asymptomatic. The "side effects" are literally your immune system working. I wish people would just be cool with that lol. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7608887/ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971220306342 You could say the same thing about many covid symptoms, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUmetstud Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 Just now, schoeppeya said: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7608887/ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971220306342 You could say the same thing about many covid symptoms, no? Yeah you could for sure. I don't think there's a definitive answer here but I've just noticed the estimates of asymptomatics have fallen through the pandemic. I believe the UK only estimated 20% and CDC prepandemic planning scenario had 40%. I dont think we have data on covid symptoms vs vaccine side effects for different age cohorts but I am absolutely sure that the relative risk of covid death and complications is far greater at any age than the US approved vaccines. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schoeppeya Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 42 minutes ago, Stebo said: The virus still will run rampant over the other 40% and it can be deadly to people under that age especially with variants. I mean if you don't understand this I don't know what to tell you. https://www.umms.org/coronavirus/covid-vaccine/facts/immunity That 60% combined with the percentage of people with natural immunity from already having it would get that age group pretty darn close to herd immunity. I have a hard time imagining it would “run rampant”. Keep trying to explain what I don’t understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dta1984 Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 30 minutes ago, schoeppeya said: Again. If the person you’ve interacted with has gotten the vaccine or willingly passed it up why’s it matter. Pretty sure the answer to this is because a vaccinated person can still get covid. Their vaccine doesn't work unless you have one too..like the masks.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schoeppeya Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 16 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said: Yeah you could for sure. I don't think there's a definitive answer here but I've just noticed the estimates of asymptomatics have fallen through the pandemic. I believe the UK only estimated 20% and CDC prepandemic planning scenario had 40%. I dont think we have data on covid symptoms vs vaccine side effects for different age cohorts but I am absolutely sure that the relative risk of covid death and complications is far greater at any age than the US approved vaccines. No arguments there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 1 minute ago, schoeppeya said: https://www.umms.org/coronavirus/covid-vaccine/facts/immunity That 60% combined with the percentage of people with natural immunity from already having it would get that age group pretty darn close to herd immunity. I have a hard time imagining it would “run rampant”. Keep trying to explain what I don’t understand. Herd immunity isn't a reason to not be vaccinated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schoeppeya Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 1 minute ago, Stebo said: Herd immunity isn't a reason to not be vaccinated. Why? Facts and numbers (keep reminding you because you still haven’t done it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 Just now, schoeppeya said: Why? Facts and numbers (keep reminding you because you still haven’t done it). What facts and numbers do you need to explain that getting vaccinated only helps you and others around you, no matter what. I mean Christ how many times does this need to be explained. Herd immunity isn't perfection, it isn't even great if this is an annual virus, in which case there may never be heard immunity. Its like what someone else said, people are using herd immunity as a crutch to do nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUmetstud Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 Just now, schoeppeya said: Why? Facts and numbers (keep reminding you because you still haven’t done it). Theres definitely value in being over herd immunity. Herd immunity initially will not be particularly stable if there is open international travel. We could be looking at 2023 or 2024 until vaccines get around to the poorer areas of the world. There could be still pockets where there's more vaccine hesitancy so there's more outbreaks. Getting the most vaccinated as possible should be the goal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormfanaticInd Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 Brazil with almost 4k deaths today. Heart really goes out to them.Worldwide as whole today was another really bad day. The risk of more serious variants is actually quite high. Thankfully America is doing much better with vaccinations but again variants will have to be monitored very closely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schoeppeya Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 20 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said: Theres definitely value in being over herd immunity. Herd immunity initially will not be particularly stable if there is open international travel. We could be looking at 2023 or 2024 until vaccines get around to the poorer areas of the world. There could be still pockets where there's more vaccine hesitancy so there's more outbreaks. Getting the most vaccinated as possible should be the goal. Again, agreed. But the bolded statement is what makes me critical about a lot of the viewpoints in here in relation to the big picture. In a few months we are going to be 40-60% vaccinated as a country and the rest of the world is what... 5-10% total? People don’t think there’s not going to be variants emerging in those countries even if we make it to 100%? EVEN if we make it to 100% vaccination in this country, we are going to be dealing with Covid for likely our lifetime in some form or another and at some point we are just going to have to accept that risk unless we become an isolationists country in a globalists world. Whether and extra ten to twenty percent of people get vaccinated next week or six months from now, that reality doesn’t change. And, it really doesn’t bother me that there’s people who’ve accepted that risk now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schoeppeya Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 19 minutes ago, Stebo said: What facts and numbers do you need to explain that getting vaccinated only helps you and others around you, no matter what. I mean Christ how many times does this need to be explained. Herd immunity isn't perfection, it isn't even great if this is an annual virus, in which case there may never be heard immunity. Its like what someone else said, people are using herd immunity as a crutch to do nothing. Got it, because you say so. And no, most people aren’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 5 minutes ago, StormfanaticInd said: Brazil with almost 4k deaths today. Heart really goes out to them.Worldwide as whole today was another really bad day. The risk of more serious variants is actually quite high. Thankfully America is doing much better with vaccinations but again variants will have to be monitored very closely We may be sitting here a few months from now with Brazil having passed the US death toll if they don't get their **** together quickly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormfanaticInd Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 23 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said: Theres definitely value in being over herd immunity. Herd immunity initially will not be particularly stable if there is open international travel. We could be looking at 2023 or 2024 until vaccines get around to the poorer areas of the world. There could be still pockets where there's more vaccine hesitancy so there's more outbreaks. Getting the most vaccinated as possible should be the goal. Yeah it's starting to sink in that this could take years to eradicate on a global scale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUmetstud Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 Just now, StormfanaticInd said: Yeah it's starting to sink in that this could take years to eradicate on a global scale I dont think it will be eradicated. Theres too many animal reservoirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorePunch Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 The WSJ recently had an article about the US hitting a plateau in vaccinations later this spring. That will shed some light on overall vaccination rates. There will most definitely be a large segment of the population that will forego the vaccine for a period of time or completely all together. That alone opens the doors for increased social pressure against the unvaccinated. Goes without saying we could have a contentious summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 1 minute ago, OSUmetstud said: I dont think it will be eradicated. Theres too many animal reservoirs. Speaking of which, our old friend Russia is out with an animal vaccine. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/03/31/europe/russia-covid-vaccine-animals-intl/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormfanaticInd Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, CorePunch said: The WSJ recently had an article about the US hitting a plateau in vaccinations later this spring. That will shed some light on overall vaccination rates. There will most definitely be a large segment of the population that will forego the vaccine for a period of time or completely all together. That alone opens the doors for increased social pressure against the unvaccinated. Goes without saying we could have a contentious summer. I just hope we don't politicize taking the vaccine too much. This needs to be a nonpartisan effort 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUmetstud Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 Just now, Hoosier said: Speaking of which, our old friend Russia is out with an animal vaccine. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/03/31/europe/russia-covid-vaccine-animals-intl/index.html Interesting. Russia has the second highest (tracked) excess deaths in the world at 355 per 100000 https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts