Coronavirus

[nwohweather]

2 hours ago, dan11295 said:

You are never going to get down to 0 cases and deaths, unrealistic when the virus will almost certainly become endemic, even with vaccines as they do not block all infections (and some will decline to take the vaccine). Ultimately the goal is to get the mortality/health/health care system impacts down to an acceptable seasonal level, similar to influenza. I would think that happens by June-July at the latest.

I see this more inline with TB than Covid. Many people forget that TB is very similar to Covid, just much slower acting. We don't live our lives in fear of tuberculosis anymore. Also as a side note here, there are some VERY strict laws with TB that I'm sure will be enacted for Covid going forward. 

[OSUmetstud]

Just now, nwohweather said:

I see this more inline with TB than Covid. Many people forget that TB is very similar to Covid, just much slower acting. We don't live our lives in fear of tuberculosis anymore. Also as a side note here, there are some VERY strict laws with TB that I'm sure will be enacted for Covid going forward. 

Poor countries do, unfortunately. TB is still a huge problem in the undeveloped world. 

[Santa Clause]

15 hours ago, StormfanaticInd said:

I see nothing wrong with needing proof of vaccination to get into big events. We have to remember we have not seen something like this in over a 100 years

Exactly.

[schoeppeya]

2 hours ago, dta1984 said:

Lol.  Seems to be the new trend.   You don't like the view, attack it, and censor it. 

Its poisonous. The only way for people to find middle ground on issues like this is to be able to talk openly about the way they feel about something. I engage with @Stebo and some of the other guys that share his POV because I legitimately want to know why they feel the way they do... its how dialogue works, how teamwork works, and how finding common ground on an issue works. He is so busy yelling loudly, drowning me out, and calling me an idiot that he doesn't even realize we agree on basically everything except that people shouldn't be forced to put shots in their arms if they are uncomfortable doing so. 

[winterwx21]

14 hours ago, schoeppeya said:

You don’t get to decide whether my statement is anti vaccine two seconds after I just said I’m pro vaccine. Polio, measles, and smallpox didn’t have mild cases in 90 percent of the people who caught it. The seriousness of the disease is what forced everyone to get the vaccine, not mandates or some angry man on the internet yelling “idiot”. There’s a reason not everyone gets the flu vaccine every year, even during really bad flu years, and whether you want to accept it or not, it’s a fact that covid is about as serious for a lot of people as the flu is. Why are people allowed to accept that risk but you get to decide that they can’t accept this one? 

This is a great post. What Stebo doesn't seem to understand is that with this virus some people at are higher risk of getting severely ill and some are at very low risk. The statistics/studies are overwhelming in showing that the overwhelming majority of people that get sick enough to have to go to the hospital are elderly or have overweight/obesity/underlying health conditions. People that have none of those things are at very low risk of getting severely ill. Not zero risk, but low enough that you can live without having to worry about it too much and low enough that not getting vaccinated can be considered a reasonable decision.

 

All of the vulnerable groups have the option of getting vaccinated, and most of those people will do that and will be protected by these excellent vaccines. With that being the case, people that choose to not get vaccinated don't have to worry about spreading it to the more vulnerable people because they will be protected. Case in point, I don't have to worry because both of my parents are fully vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine. I'm at very low risk but I would be worried if they were not vaccinated, and I would get the vaccine if for some reason they decided not to get the vaccine since I do see them a lot. But they are vaccinated so I don't have to worry.

 

I had Covid last spring and my symptoms were so mild. It's very possible that the vaccine would actually make me feel more sick for a day or two than Covid did, and I also have to worry about the slim possibility of having a severe allergic reaction to the vaccine since I have a history of bad allergic reactions. So since I'm at very low Covid risk and don't have to worry about my parents, not getting vaccinated should be considered a reasonable decision.

 

It's obvious that enough people will be getting vaccinated, combined with some people having immunity due to already having had the virus, that herd immunity will be reached a few months from now. Cases and hospitalizations will be so low this summer that people shouldn't care about the 30% of people that have chosen to not get vaccinated. If a small percentage of the more vulnerable people choose to not get vaccinated, well that's on them for making a risky decision. I definitely encourage higher risk people to get vaccinated. For the smaller percentage of people in this country that are at low risk, it's great if they want to get vaccinated anyway. If they don't want to, it's not a big deal because enough people will be vaccinated that we won't have a pandemic anymore. It would be different if this was some extremely deadly virus with very high death and hospitalization rates for all groups. If that was the case, then of course everyone should get vaccinated. But that's not the case.

[dta1984]

1 hour ago, schoeppeya said:

Its poisonous. The only way for people to find middle ground on issues like this is to be able to talk openly about the way they feel about something. I engage with @Stebo and some of the other guys that share his POV because I legitimately want to know why they feel the way they do... its how dialogue works, how teamwork works, and how finding common ground on an issue works. He is so busy yelling loudly, drowning me out, and calling me an idiot that he doesn't even realize we agree on basically everything except that people shouldn't be forced to put shots in their arms if they are uncomfortable doing so. 

Agreed, the way he (and some others) approach this is not how you get anything done.  For example, the reply @mattb65 gave me was a well constructed reply with a few reasons on why you would change your mind on the covid vaccine. This is the message that those on the fence need to see, not a computer tough guy calling people idiots or stupid.  That only inflames tensions. 

I realize most don't agree with my views, but it is interesting that forced vaccinations and vaccine passports seem to be a more common (for the most part) agreement.

[mollydog]

For my understanding, the Black community is also concerned about that vaccine...The Tuskegee experiment isn’t exactly a proud moment. 

This is a problem. That is the city of Detroit inside of Wayne county.


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[mollydog]

I see nothing wrong with needing proof of vaccination to get into big events. We have to remember we have not seen something like this in over a 100 years

I am on the fence with this a bit. I do have some family and friends that have had Covid (back in December) and are now testing with strong antibodies (verified by Quest.) I feel like they can be included at least for 6 months without needing vaccine. Most of them are ok with getting a vaccine eventually but are purposefully waiting so others that are more vulnerable can get it. If a booster becomes available for variants they are more likely to get in that line.


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[BuffaloWeather]

1 hour ago, winterwx21 said:

This is a great post. What Stebo doesn't seem to understand is that with this virus some people at are higher risk of getting severely ill and some are at very low risk. The statistics/studies are overwhelming in showing that the overwhelming majority of people that get sick enough to have to go to the hospital are elderly or have overweight/obesity/underlying health conditions. People that have none of those things are at very low risk of getting severely ill. Not zero risk, but low enough that you can live without having to worry about it too much and low enough that not getting vaccinated can be considered a reasonable decision.

 

All of the vulnerable groups have the option of getting vaccinated, and most of those people will do that and will be protected by these excellent vaccines. With that being the case, people that choose to not get vaccinated don't have to worry about spreading it to the more vulnerable people because they will be protected. Case in point, I don't have to worry because both of my parents are fully vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine. I'm at very low risk but I would be worried if they were not vaccinated, and I would get the vaccine if for some reason they decided not to get the vaccine since I do see them a lot. But they are vaccinated so I don't have to worry.

 

I had Covid last spring and my symptoms were so mild. It's very possible that the vaccine would actually make me feel more sick for a day or two than Covid did, and I also have to worry about the slim possibility of having a severe allergic reaction to the vaccine since I have a history of bad allergic reactions. So since I'm at very low Covid risk and don't have to worry about my parents, not getting vaccinated should be considered a reasonable decision.

 

It's obvious that enough people will be getting vaccinated, combined with some people having immunity due to already having had the virus, that herd immunity will be reached a few months from now. Cases and hospitalizations will be so low this summer that people shouldn't care about the 30% of people that have chosen to not get vaccinated. If a small percentage of the more vulnerable people choose to not get vaccinated, well that's on them for making a risky decision. I definitely encourage higher risk people to get vaccinated. For the smaller percentage of people in this country that are at low risk, it's great if they want to get vaccinated anyway. If they don't want to, it's not a big deal because enough people will be vaccinated that we won't have a pandemic anymore. It would be different if this was some extremely deadly virus with very high death and hospitalization rates for all groups. If that was the case, then of course everyone should get vaccinated. But that's not the case.

The problem with this thinking is that if everyone felt that way, as I am also similar to you. I have gone to gym 5 days a week for 7 years and play sports every weekend is that we won't reach herd immunity and the variants can cause major problems. We are in a time crunch with variants vs vaccinations currently. The variants are more transmissible and more deadly based on recent studies. If they mutate quick enough and evolve enough to counteract the vaccines, we're right back at square one. People who don't get vaccinated will be the cause of another outbreak.

[Hoosier]

Some good news and some, well, slightly less good news

Pfizer-BioNTech says Covid vaccine is 100% effective in kids ages 12 to 15

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/31/covid-vaccine-pfizer-says-shot-is-100percent-effective-in-kids-ages-12-to-15.html

 

Over 100 fully vaccinated people contract COVID-19 in Washington state, officials say

Most cases were patients who experienced only mild symptoms, if any, according to a press release from the Washington State Department of Health.

However, at least eight people with breakthrough cases have been hospitalized. The Washington State Department of Health is also investigating two potential breakthrough cases where the individuals died. Both patients were over 80 years old and suffered from underlying health issues.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/100-fully-vaccinated-people-contract-covid-19-washington/story?id=76784838

 

[schoeppeya]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloWeather said:

The problem with this thinking is that if everyone felt that way, as I am also similar to you. I have gone to gym 5 days a week for 7 years and play sports every weekend is that we won't reach herd immunity and the variants can cause major problems. We are in a time crunch with variants vs vaccinations currently. The variants are more transmissible and more deadly based on recent studies. If they mutate quick enough and evolve enough to counteract the vaccines, we're right back at square one. People who don't get vaccinated will be the cause of another outbreak.

That’s an interesting point, but as some other have said, covid is never going away and the risk for a mutation that sidesteps the vaccine will always be there IMO. I also think it’s very likely at some point the vaccine will have to be tweaked like the flu vaccine is every year. Thankfully from what we know so far the vaccine is pretty effective against the current variants. 

[schoeppeya]

3 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

Some good news and some, well, slightly less good news

Pfizer-BioNTech says Covid vaccine is 100% effective in kids ages 12 to 15

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/31/covid-vaccine-pfizer-says-shot-is-100percent-effective-in-kids-ages-12-to-15.html

 

Over 100 fully vaccinated people contract COVID-19 in Washington state, officials say

Most cases were patients who experienced only mild symptoms, if any, according to a press release from the Washington State Department of Health.

However, at least eight people with breakthrough cases have been hospitalized. The Washington State Department of Health is also investigating two potential breakthrough cases where the individuals died. Both patients were over 80 years old and suffered from underlying health issues.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/100-fully-vaccinated-people-contract-covid-19-washington/story?id=76784838

 

At some point do you see deaths start being classified as people “died with covid” vs “died from covid”? Not saying that’s the case here, just curious when we start drawing a line there.

[winterwx21]

10 minutes ago, BuffaloWeather said:

The problem with this thinking is that if everyone felt that way, as I am also similar to you. I have gone to gym 5 days a week for 7 years and play sports every weekend is that we won't reach herd immunity and the variants can cause major problems. We are in a time crunch with variants vs vaccinations currently. The variants are more transmissible and more deadly based on recent studies. If they mutate quick enough and evolve enough to counteract the vaccines, we're right back at square one. People who don't get vaccinated will be the cause of another outbreak.

Right now it appears that the vaccines work well against the variants. I'm not even eligible for the vaccine right now anyway (here in NJ it will be May 1st). If I was eligible and wanted it right now, I wouldn't make an appointment because I wouldn't want to take an appointment away from someone that needs it more. I still know some higher risk people that are very upset because they haven't been able to get vaccinated yet. I'm going to wait a few months and see what happens. I believe that the virus situation will be very good by the time we get to summer. However if the virus situation isn't as good as expected and the variants are causing problems, I will consider getting the Johnson & Johnson vaccine since that one is having a lower rate of severe allergic reactions.

[Santa Clause]

9 minutes ago, schoeppeya said:

At some point do you see deaths start being classified as people “died with covid” vs “died from covid”? Not saying that’s the case here, just curious when we start drawing a line there.

Lol

[BuffaloWeather]

9 minutes ago, winterwx21 said:

Right now it appears that the vaccines work well against the variants. I'm not even eligible for the vaccine right now anyway (here in NJ it will be May 1st). If I was eligible and wanted it right now, I wouldn't make an appointment because I wouldn't want to take an appointment away from someone that needs it more. I still know some higher risk people that are very upset because they haven't been able to get vaccinated yet. I'm going to wait a few months and see what happens. I believe that the virus situation will be very good by the time we get to summer. However if the virus situation isn't as good as expected and the variants are causing problems, I will consider getting the Johnson & Johnson vaccine since that one is having a lower rate of severe allergic reactions.

That is not the case for all the variants discovered so far, and who is to say they don't evolve further away from the original covid-19 variant. I believe Pfizer and Moderna only have 35-40% efficacy vs the south african variant. The quicker everyone gets vaccinated the quicker this thing is over. If the virus has no host to spread to its impossible to mutate.

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210309/s-african-variant-challenges-pfizer-moderna-vaccines

The key finding: The percentage of positive antibodies that neutralized the South African variant was 12.4 fold lower for the Moderna vaccine than against the original coronavirus and 10.3 fold lower for the Pfizer vaccine, the study says.

[schoeppeya]

8 minutes ago, Wmsptwx said:

Lol

Care to expand? You think someone with late stage cancer or who suffers a severe stroke or heart attack should be considered a covid death?

[dan11295]

Have been reading discussion re: ability to further mutate. Clearly there is some preferential selection for the existing spike mutations, as they have evolved independents of each other. But there is likely a limit as to how much it can mutate without the virus weakening itself.

 

[OSUmetstud]

20 minutes ago, schoeppeya said:

At some point do you see deaths start being classified as people “died with covid” vs “died from covid”? Not saying that’s the case here, just curious when we start drawing a line there.

The US standard is already that covid contributed to death.

535k covid deaths

575k excess deaths

726k deaths of a combo of covid, pneumonia, and influenza since the pandemic began (the normal is 50k pneumonia/influenza)

It's really hard to believe that 13 months in anyone is still discussing "covid with" in good faith. 

[Hoosier]

3 minutes ago, schoeppeya said:

Care to expand? You think someone with late stage cancer or who suffers a severe stroke or heart attack should be considered a covid death?

The vast majority of cases are fairly obvious as to whether covid caused the death, but in instances like what you described, I would hope that an honest best judgement is being used.

[schoeppeya]

3 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

The US standard is already that covid contributed to death.

535k covid deaths

575k excess deaths

726k deaths of a combo of covid, pneumonia, and influenza since the pandemic began (the normal is 50k pneumonia/influenza)

It's really hard to believe that 13 months in anyone is still discussing "covid with" in good faith. 

I am specifically asking in reference to the vaccinated cases because as far as I know there are no other examples of deaths attributed to covid post vaccine. 

[dta1984]

37 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

Some good news and some, well, slightly less good news

Pfizer-BioNTech says Covid vaccine is 100% effective in kids ages 12 to 15

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/31/covid-vaccine-pfizer-says-shot-is-100percent-effective-in-kids-ages-12-to-15.html

 

Over 100 fully vaccinated people contract COVID-19 in Washington state, officials say

Most cases were patients who experienced only mild symptoms, if any, according to a press release from the Washington State Department of Health.

However, at least eight people with breakthrough cases have been hospitalized. The Washington State Department of Health is also investigating two potential breakthrough cases where the individuals died. Both patients were over 80 years old and suffered from underlying health issues.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/100-fully-vaccinated-people-contract-covid-19-washington/story?id=76784838

 

Do they ever release any more details on the trial groups?   Did they pick the most healthy kids or was asthma, obesity, mixed ethnicity etc mixed in too (most vulnerable)?   The 100% would mean more if we know more about the group.  

[OSUmetstud]

Just now, dta1984 said:

Do they ever release any more details on the trial groups?   Did they pick the most healthy kids or was asthma, obesity, mixed ethnicity etc mixed in too (most vulnerable)?   The 100% would mean more if we know more about the group.  

All these vaccine trial populations have attempted to represent the larger population as a whole in terms of demographics and comorbidity. We don't have anything specific on this trial since this was just a press release not the full paper.

[OSUmetstud]

6 minutes ago, schoeppeya said:

I am specifically asking in reference to the vaccinated cases because as far as I know there are no other examples of deaths attributed to covid post vaccine. 

Give that vaccines aren't 100% effective I'd be shocked if there weren't some covid deaths post vaccine generally. We are talking about millions of people here. 

[Santa Clause]

20 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

The vast majority of cases are fairly obvious as to whether covid caused the death, but in instances like what you described, I would hope that an honest best judgement is being used.

It is, our local coroner basically had to explain the whole process bc of these rumors that they write everything down as covid for all deaths.

[StormfanaticInd]

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LIVING

Michigan coronavirus surge impacting younger demographic

By Alexandra Hein , Fox News

March 31, 2021 | 4:13pm

Shutterstock

A surge of new coronavirus cases in Michigan is hitting a younger demographic than previous spikes which officials said is likely due to high vaccination rates among those ages 70 and above. At Spectrum Health hospitals, the average age of hospitalized COVID-19 patients is now 60, whereas last fall the average was 73, officials said during a press conference on Tuesday, according to MLive.com.

“In this latest surge we are seeing, it shows the benefits of the COVID-19 vaccine,” Tina Freese, Spectrum Health president and CEO, said, according to WOODTV.com. “People showing up in our hospitals with COVID-19 are significantly younger on average than during the fall surge, and we have yet to care for someone who has been fully vaccinated.”

Last week, health officials in the state noted an “alarming” rise in COVID-19-related hospitalizations among unvaccinated individuals. The first three weeks of March saw a 633% increase in hospitalizations among adults ages 30-39, and an increase of 800% among those ages 40-49.

[StormfanaticInd]

Just now, StormfanaticInd said:

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•  
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LIVING

Michigan coronavirus surge impacting younger demographic

By Alexandra Hein , Fox News

March 31, 2021 | 4:13pm

Shutterstock

A surge of new coronavirus cases in Michigan is hitting a younger demographic than previous spikes which officials said is likely due to high vaccination rates among those ages 70 and above. At Spectrum Health hospitals, the average age of hospitalized COVID-19 patients is now 60, whereas last fall the average was 73, officials said during a press conference on Tuesday, according to MLive.com.

“In this latest surge we are seeing, it shows the benefits of the COVID-19 vaccine,” Tina Freese, Spectrum Health president and CEO, said, according to WOODTV.com. “People showing up in our hospitals with COVID-19 are significantly younger on average than during the fall surge, and we have yet to care for someone who has been fully vaccinated.”

Last week, health officials in the state noted an “alarming” rise in COVID-19-related hospitalizations among unvaccinated individuals. The first three weeks of March saw a 633% increase in hospitalizations among adults ages 30-39, and an increase of 800% among those ages 40-49.

Sounds like the Brazilian variant.

[dan11295]

I am sure a major part of the drop in average age of hospitalized patients is a significant portion of the older demographic is now vaccinated. That stat isn't indicative of anything other than that unless a higher % of cases in that age range are being admitted. I have yet to read anything specific to that effect in regards to Michigan

[Stebo]

4 hours ago, BuffaloWeather said:

The problem with this thinking is that if everyone felt that way, as I am also similar to you. I have gone to gym 5 days a week for 7 years and play sports every weekend is that we won't reach herd immunity and the variants can cause major problems. We are in a time crunch with variants vs vaccinations currently. The variants are more transmissible and more deadly based on recent studies. If they mutate quick enough and evolve enough to counteract the vaccines, we're right back at square one. People who don't get vaccinated will be the cause of another outbreak.

Thank you, this individualism that people keep expressing is what will cause this to never get down to reasonable rates. The longer it is around the better then chances of new variants too. This has to be a team effort, and if it means shunning those who don't want to be part of the team so be it. I don't need their selfish behavior to cause someone I love to die.

[Stebo]

3 hours ago, Hoosier said:

The vast majority of cases are fairly obvious as to whether covid caused the death, but in instances like what you described, I would hope that an honest best judgement is being used.

It is a covid death though because while yes they may have been sick, covid is the reason they died. Its like someone with AIDS dying of pneumonia, AIDS is the sickness but pneumonia is the killer.

[roardog]

21 hours ago, Stebo said:

Let me tell you how hard up I am to get vaccinated, right now have a standing appointment in Lima Ohio to get vaccinated on Saturday. If I find something closer I will take it but at this point I am willing to drive 150 miles one way to get the shot and be done with it.

So get this. I've been signed up with the county health department for quite awhile now. I've been eligible since January. I haven't heard anything from them. Today, a co-worker called the "immunization manager" phone number at the health department and was given an appointment tomorrow. She said they told her that there were several appointments available tomorrow. So I guess that's the key to getting an appointment in this county.