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19 minutes ago, Angrysummons said:

If you don't like it, don't read it. Corporate executives made corporate decisions. Big Government is a myth. Big Capitalism and its globalist system is reality. $$$$$$ is all that matters.

Fwiw, I am not a scientists but deal with Scientists weekly.

90 new infections in the placebo side of the study, 5 in the vaccine side. 11 severe illnesses in the placebo side, none in the vaccine side.

No serious adverse events in placebo or vaccine but limited follow up data. This is in their press release.

Which part is fabricated?

Saying you "deal with scientists weekly" means what exactly?

Do you have some vested interest in there not being an effective vaccine against this virus.

If the data holds, this will be an incredible tool and proof of concept to use against this pandemic or future novel viruses. It could also be used as a platform in cancer treatments. The profit is certainly there for the company but it's not like there's no cost to fabricating data. If they roll out the vaccine and it's not nearly as effective as advertised, it would be pretty obvious really quickly. Same with adverse effects, if there's major safety problems that'll be pretty obvious quickly with millions getting vaccinated.

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I am not an anti vaxer but I can't fault people for questioning the effectiveness of the current covid vaccines being touted. Most vaccines take years to develop and this one is going to be done in less than a year.  Whichever companies can get their vaccines to the masses first is gonna cash in big time so there is definitely reason for these companies to fudge their numbers. Whether that is actually happening right now I don't know but it's something to consider

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12 minutes ago, mattb65 said:

90 new infections in the placebo side of the study, 5 in the vaccine side. 11 severe illnesses in the placebo side, none in the vaccine side.

This is an important aspect of the vaccine... how effective will it be at preventing serious/hospital level illness?  We are dealing with pretty small numbers of infections on the placebo and vax sides (11 severe out of 90 infections for the placebo and 0 severe out of 5 infections for the vaccine) so the jury is still out on that one.  

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4 minutes ago, chances14 said:

I am not an anti vaxer but I can't fault people for questioning the effectiveness of the current covid vaccines being touted. Most vaccines take years to develop and this one is going to be done in less than a year.  Whichever companies can get their vaccines to the masses first is gonna cash in big time so there is definitely reason for these companies to fudge their numbers. Whether that is actually happening right now I don't know but it's something to consider

Theres a whole panel of independent scientists that will review all the study data and will be recommending to the FDA whether the vaccine should get an emergency use authorization. Approval is not given based on the required company press release. 

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4 minutes ago, chances14 said:

I am not an anti vaxer but I can't fault people for questioning the effectiveness of the current covid vaccines being touted. Most vaccines take years to develop and this one is going to be done in less than a year.  Whichever companies can get their vaccines to the masses first is gonna cash in big time so there is definitely reason for these companies to fudge their numbers. Whether that is actually happening right now I don't know but it's something to consider

"I'm not an anti vaxer but"... The classic anti-vax statement. 

The money, time, effort, etc being poured into the vaccine research is astronomical. I don't think it is unreasonable to think a vaccine can be developed much quicker than they have been in the past when substantially more resources are being thrown at it. 

Granted I want to see the studies. I want to see the data empirically peer reviewed to ensure it is legitimate and we don't have any Andrew Wakefield shenanigans. But no one has produced anything as of yet that represents any sort of evidence of data manipulation. 

This argument is along the same lines as the equally ridiculous "we don't cure cancer because there is more profit in treating it". 

 

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2 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

This is an important aspect of the vaccine... how effective will it be at preventing serious/hospital level illness?  We are dealing with pretty small numbers of infections on the placebo and vax sides (11 severe out of 90 infections for the placebo and 0 severe out of 5 infections for the vaccine) so the jury is still out on that one.  

Not an expert on significance but 11 vs zero seems like it would be statistically significant. I appreciated that this press release was a bit more thorough than the Pfizer one...perhaps because the NIH is partially funding it. 

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6 minutes ago, chances14 said:

I am not an anti vaxer but I can't fault people for questioning the effectiveness of the current covid vaccines being touted. Most vaccines take years to develop and this one is going to be done in less than a year.  Whichever companies can get their vaccines to the masses first is gonna cash in big time so there is definitely reason for these companies to fudge their numbers. Whether that is actually happening right now I don't know but it's something to consider

It is one thing to question, as in "I wonder about this" and another to just spout nonsense with no evidence whatsoever that "Vaccine X is dangerous and will mutate your genes!!!" and all. I think everyone would like more info and many may have some skepticism but that is a long way from what some of these posters have been spouting.  There is healthy skepticism and then there is unsubstantiated wackiness.

 

 

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1 minute ago, OSUmetstud said:

Not an expert on significance but 11 vs zero seems like it would be statistically significant. I appreciated that this press release was a bit more thorough than the Pfizer one...perhaps because the NIH is partially funding it. 

I would agree. Depends on the sample size as well, but those are encouraging numbers. 

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I don't think people realize exactly how well-monitored vaccine development is. I know trust in the government is as low as ever but this is one of those areas that should largely be free of shadiness, one would hope. 

Also, did you guys know that at 94-95% effectivity, the Moderna vaccine is actually more effective than the measles vaccine, which hovers around 93%? Just something to think about. 

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3 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

Not an expert on significance but 11 vs zero seems like it would be statistically significant. I appreciated that this press release was a bit more thorough than the Pfizer one...perhaps because the NIH is partially funding it. 

I was looking at it a different way.  About 12%, or roughly 1 in 8 who received the placebo and got infected developed severe covid.  We don't even have 8 total infections in the group who received the vaccine.  

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12 minutes ago, SchaumburgStormer said:

"I'm not an anti vaxer but"... The classic anti-vax statement. 

The money, time, effort, etc being poured into the vaccine research is astronomical. I don't think it is unreasonable to think a vaccine can be developed much quicker than they have been in the past when substantially more resources are being thrown at it. 

Granted I want to see the studies. I want to see the data empirically peer reviewed to ensure it is legitimate and we don't have any Andrew Wakefield shenanigans. But no one has produced anything as of yet that represents any sort of evidence of data manipulation. 

This argument is along the same lines as the equally ridiculous "we don't cure cancer because there is more profit in treating it". 

 

I have never objected to vaccines that I know work. So again, I am not anti vaxer but go ahead with your assumptions. I never said that the vaccine won't be effective. Just that I understand why people might be skeptical right now

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6 minutes ago, Angrysummons said:

They don't have a clue how "effective" it is. Nor are they that well monitored. They are uncontrolled in environments to boost underlying profits. If the FDA actually did a real study, my guess it wouldn't look so hot.

You don't have a clue about how effective it is so why not just miss us with your guesses? Your "guess" is not worth anything-if they don't have a clue, you certainly don't either and yet you continue to post your completely unsupported "guess". Maybe I can contact a seer or call a psychic hotline to see what they say-it would have as much validity as your "guess".

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22 minutes ago, Angrysummons said:

They don't have a clue how "effective" it is. Nor are they that well monitored. They are uncontrolled in environments to boost underlying profits. If the FDA actually did a real study, my guess it wouldn't look so hot.

I'm sure the FDA will do a real study before this vaccine becomes widely available, right? 

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Was looking at the ICU data for Indiana, and the number of people in ICU with covid is starting to get closer to the number in ICU for all other causes.  Not very close yet (749 in ICU with covid and 842 in ICU for something else) but it may only be a matter of time.  At no point in the pandemic have there been more covid patients in ICU than non-covid patients, but it got very close back in April.

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43 minutes ago, Angrysummons said:

They don't have a clue how "effective" it is. Nor are they that well monitored. They are uncontrolled in environments to boost underlying profits. If the FDA actually did a real study, my guess it wouldn't look so hot.

Nor do you have a clue how effective it is. Show the data to back up all your claims. We are tired of all the conspiracy theories. At this point, you’re just being a troll.

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23 minutes ago, StormfanaticInd said:

Hospitals are on the brink of being completely overwhelmed. If this happens this death rate will skyrocket 

My cousin says her hospital is on bypass, which basically means that they are out of room and not accepting more patients.

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