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35 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

The CDC never had the ability to make up for the test failure early on because the administration wouldn't let them to take the lead on the pandemic. Public health is what they do, they are supposed to be in charge in all of this. The HHS put political pressure on them often and did political review of scientific literature. 

Fauci has been serving this country for 50 freaking years. The right hates him. They have done everything to make it political. He's said to wear mask 1000s of times after the initial stuff in March. The anti-mask rhetoric is not about what fauci said in March. It's just another political tool to justify being anti-mask. 

This sounds a lot like the "scientists are the problem" that couldn't be father from the truth. 

I've no idea whether the CDC was prohibited from allowing other countries or industry tests, but they failed to provide a working test themselves because their material was contaminated.

That is a failure which the CDC owns, not the White House or others. Likewise, the Fauci flip flops on masks did not serve the country well.

I recognize Dr Fauci's long service, but in this case, I think he and his organization failed abysmally. He had lots of access to the microphone, if he felt pressured, he had the power to push back, but he never did.

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Just now, etudiant said:

I've no idea whether the CDC was prohibited from allowing other countries or industry tests, but they failed to provide a working test themselves because their material was contaminated.

That is a failure which the CDC owns, not the White House or others. Likewise, the Fauci flip flops on masks did not serve the country well.

I recognize Dr Fauci's long service, but in this case, I think he and his organization failed abysmally. He had lots of access to the microphone, if he felt pressured, he had the power to push back, but he never did.

Agreed on the test itself. I'm making a larger point their role as the preeminent public health organization in the county. They were neutered in that role since March by the administration. 

It is my opinion that Fauci said no masks early on because we didn't understand how much asymptomatic transmission there was at the time and that the data on the effectiveness of public masking was quite flimsy at the time. That it isn't exactly a flip flop since what we didn't understand at the time that public masking was effective. Since, there have been some, albeit not perfect studies, that have shown some effectiveness. They aren't the golden goose, but they should be warn and used as part of an overall public health strategy. 

I just don't think what Fauci said in March matters that much about what is going on now. The anti-masking stuff is political theater. It's not genuine scientific confusion. 

 

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4 minutes ago, etudiant said:

I've no idea whether the CDC was prohibited from allowing other countries or industry tests, but they failed to provide a working test themselves because their material was contaminated.

That is a failure which the CDC owns, not the White House or others. Likewise, the Fauci flip flops on masks did not serve the country well.

I recognize Dr Fauci's long service, but in this case, I think he and his organization failed abysmally. He had lots of access to the microphone, if he felt pressured, he had the power to push back, but he never did.

This is water under the bridge. Pointing fingers now is a waste of time, but the CDC and Fauci were throttled by the White House. I watched several of the briefings, and after Fauci spoke strongly on multiple occasions, the President would blow him off, attempt to minimize what he said, and in fact got pissed with him.

Anyway, like I said, too late now. I would love to see the CDC be released to do their job the way it should have been done in the first place.

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Deaths are tragically trending back up too. We’ll be back over 1000 daily average next week most likely. If hospitals start getting overwhelmed I’m sure it’ll trend upward significantly faster. Seeing the death trend in Europe spike, unfortunately that’ll be us in 1-2 weeks. Understandably the election is top news but this is the other huge story. 

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WH Chief of Staff Mark Meadows is now positive for Covid. Bad week for the White House getting worse. Wasn’t Covid suppose to go away after the election?

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3 hours ago, OSUmetstud said:

Agreed on the test itself. I'm making a larger point their role as the preeminent public health organization in the county. They were neutered in that role since March by the administration. 

It is my opinion that Fauci said no masks early on because we didn't understand how much asymptomatic transmission there was at the time and that the data on the effectiveness of public masking was quite flimsy at the time. That it isn't exactly a flip flop since what we didn't understand at the time that public masking was effective. Since, there have been some, albeit not perfect studies, that have shown some effectiveness. They aren't the golden goose, but they should be warn and used as part of an overall public health strategy. 

I just don't think what Fauci said in March matters that much about what is going on now. The anti-masking stuff is political theater. It's not genuine scientific confusion. 

 

The fault I would assign Fauci and the CDC would be their reluctance to accept mask wearing initially. Asia has been wearing masks since the original SARS and MERS outbreaks.  

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What I do not understand is the incoherent nature of the approach in the US and elsewhere in Europe.

What is the purpose of testing people other than to allow people who are infected to isolate themselves. Yet it still takes days to get a result, so a good spread to those around the person can be confidently expected and contact tracing is hopeless. Bill Gates, who is no dummy, has called our testing useless, perhaps for that reason, but it continues unchanged.

That is very different from the approach followed in Taiwan and South Korea, where the virus has been reasonably contained. Frequent testing and fast tracking appear to work. But neither Europe nor the US appear interested in that course. Perhaps there is an acceptance that the virus is not containable, much as the Swedish health authorities recognized earlier.

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4 hours ago, etudiant said:

What I do not understand is the incoherent nature of the approach in the US and elsewhere in Europe.

What is the purpose of testing people other than to allow people who are infected to isolate themselves. Yet it still takes days to get a result, so a good spread to those around the person can be confidently expected and contact tracing is hopeless. Bill Gates, who is no dummy, has called our testing useless, perhaps for that reason, but it continues unchanged.

That is very different from the approach followed in Taiwan and South Korea, where the virus has been reasonably contained. Frequent testing and fast tracking appear to work. But neither Europe nor the US appear interested in that course. Perhaps there is an acceptance that the virus is not containable, much as the Swedish health authorities recognized earlier.

Locally, our tests have a 48-72 hour turnaround. I don't think that's bad considering the numbers being tested. Also, in Indiana, I can get tested daily if I so desire. However, I don't know how government can force frequent testing. A percentage of the population won't even wear a mask. Do you think people with that mindset will agree to the government requiring frequent testing?

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We're getting massive community spread. It's already too late for lockdowns. 100-200k new cases a day for foreseeable future? 

And the real number of infections is likely 5 times higher then confirmed cases.

Dr. Scott Gottlieb says actual number of new daily U.S. Covid cases is ‘at least half a million

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/06/dr-scott-gottlieb-daily-us-covid-cases-are-at-least-half-a-million.html?

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We're getting massive community spread. It's already too late for lockdowns. 100-200k new cases a day for foreseeable future? 
And the real number of infections is likely 5 times higher then confirmed cases.
Dr. Scott Gottlieb says actual number of new daily U.S. Covid cases is ‘at least half a million
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/06/dr-scott-gottlieb-daily-us-covid-cases-are-at-least-half-a-million.html?

Honestly that gets us to herd immunity by spring if not sooner. As I’ve said before, we’ve never defeated a pandemic any other way sadly. A vaccine would be awesome but it doesn’t seem like it’s going to be ready in time
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1 hour ago, IWXwx said:

Locally, our tests have a 48-72 hour turnaround. I don't think that's bad considering the numbers being tested. Also, in Indiana, I can get tested daily if I so desire. However, I don't know how government can force frequent testing. A percentage of the population won't even wear a mask. Do you think people with that mindset will agree to the government requiring frequent testing?

You raise a valid concern.

The Asian testing regimes all have as a common basis the ability of the authorities to track all phone carriers, indefinitely. That is quite unacceptable to many Americans, even as they blithely allow Google and others to monitor their location along with every keystroke they make.

Absent the Asian approach, it seems that Sweden has chosen a viable alternative, which is to prevent mass gatherings which would generate huge surges in caseload, but keep business as usual mostly, letting the health services cope with the victims. That minimizes the toll fairly effectively while also limiting the catastrophic economic damage generated by lockdowns.

I just wonder how Dr Fauci reconciles his push for extensive lockdowns with his Hippocratic oathto above all, do no harm. The lockdowns have not really helped, but they have certainly ruined many and made us all much more indebted, with no visible benefit.

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JB (not that one) sounding the alarm. 

I'm sure this would go over well.

 

Gov. Pritzker Says He Can't Rule Out Stay-at-Home Order in Coming Weeks

"I'm not looking at the broader mitigation of stay-at-home as something I would do in the coming days or week, but I can't guarantee you what it looks like two weeks from now or three weeks from now - I just don't know"

 

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/coronavirus/gov-pritzker-says-he-cant-rule-out-stay-at-home-order-in-coming-weeks/2365433/?amp

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JB (not that one) sounding the alarm. 

I'm sure this would go over well.

 

Gov. Pritzker Says He Can't Rule Out Stay-at-Home Order in Coming Weeks

"I'm not looking at the broader mitigation of stay-at-home as something I would do in the coming days or week, but I can't guarantee you what it looks like two weeks from now or three weeks from now - I just don't know"

 

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/coronavirus/gov-pritzker-says-he-cant-rule-out-stay-at-home-order-in-coming-weeks/2365433/?amp

he’s just not happy his fair tax amendment wasn’t passed. ever since it was turned down, he has been in a not so great mood.

 

 

.

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