Coronavirus

[Hoosier]

40 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

Unsurprisingly, another record case day in IN.  Also starting to get some days of 30+ deaths, which was happening more often in spring.

Rural areas can get lost in the shuffle since the numbers aren't big, but something jumped out at me today.  Warren county, which is just about the most rural county in Indiana, had an increase of 7 cases since yesterday.  Doesn't sound like much, but it sticks out when the total number of cases in the county goes from 65 to 72 in a pandemic that has been around for over 6 months.

[StormfanaticInd]

Hopefully America starts taking this seriously 

[StormfanaticInd]

We are already at 32k which is high for a Saturday 

[ikcarsky]

At the risk of being "inhumane": it's time to accept defeat.  The virus is now endemic, not just in the US but the West as a whole.  It has won, and we've socially exhausted our ability to tolerate further lockdowns.  We had our chance to make lockdowns work and we failed.  Time to embrace that fact and restore overall quality of life by making all public health measures voluntary. If the State still wanted to do something useful, engage in mass distribution of Vitamin D and zinc supplements.  Media messaging and narratives should change to encourage prophylaxis and overall fitness (e.g. outdoor activity, weight loss) should be emphasized.  But ultimately let individuals take charge of their own health and act as they deem fit.  And open up everything.  (But I know this isn't going to happen.)

[StormfanaticInd]

6 minutes ago, ikcarsky said:

At the risk of being "inhumane": it's time to accept defeat.  The virus is now endemic, not just in the US but the West as a whole.  It has won, and we've socially exhausted our ability to tolerate further lockdowns.  We had our chance to make lockdowns work and we failed.  Time to embrace that fact and restore overall quality of life by making all public health measures voluntary. If the State still wanted to do something useful, engage in mass distribution of Vitamin D and zinc supplements.  Media messaging and narratives should change to encourage prophylaxis and overall fitness (e.g. outdoor activity, weight loss) should be emphasized.  But ultimately let individuals take charge of their own health and act as they deem fit.  And open up everything.  (But I know this isn't going to happen.)

The only problem with that is you overwhelm the hospitals creating an even bigger problem because now no one can get any medical treatment 

[Malacka11]

How about we improve quality of life by permanently implementing mask wearing? If it helps prevent all viruses, then let's go. 

[Hoosier]

The Wisconsin hospitalization numbers are striking... way worse there than it was back in spring.

Courtesy of Covid Tracking

 

 

[RyanDe680]

12 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

The Wisconsin hospitalization numbers are striking... way worse there than it was back in spring.

Courtesy of Covid Tracking

 

 

Sounds like the perfect time to hold a non social distancing rally with no mask requirements 

[dta1984]

1 hour ago, ikcarsky said:

At the risk of being "inhumane": it's time to accept defeat.  The virus is now endemic, not just in the US but the West as a whole.  It has won, and we've socially exhausted our ability to tolerate further lockdowns.  We had our chance to make lockdowns work and we failed.  Time to embrace that fact and restore overall quality of life by making all public health measures voluntary. If the State still wanted to do something useful, engage in mass distribution of Vitamin D and zinc supplements.  Media messaging and narratives should change to encourage prophylaxis and overall fitness (e.g. outdoor activity, weight loss) should be emphasized.  But ultimately let individuals take charge of their own health and act as they deem fit.  And open up everything.  (But I know this isn't going to happen.)

Well said 

[Hoosier]

Sone stats for math nerds.  The 9 state area of MN, IA, MO, WI, MI, IL, IN, OH, KY accounts for 20% of the US population.  As of today, just over 25% of hospitalized covid-19 patients in the country are from those states.  

[Maestrobjwa]

1 hour ago, Malacka11 said:

How about we improve quality of life by permanently implementing mask wearing? If it helps prevent all viruses, then let's go. 

And that's something you can do without doing full-on March 2020 lockdowns...See, explain this to me: If mask wearing is the thing that could help diminish the spread and help to prevent the very lockdowns that people don't want...why in the world are folks up here saying "Eh, don't make people wear masks" yet they say "We can't lock everything down!" 

[Hoosier]

No doubt that people are tired of all the precautions and what not.  This may sound silly, but for motivation, I sort of play a mind trick and think of the virus as an opponent.  It helps me to maintain vigilance and keep up with the safety measures.  Even if you are young and healthy, most of us here have parents or grandparents to think about.  We don't want to be the one to unknowingly pass it on to them, and all it takes is one face to face encounter.  

[Stebo]

13 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

No doubt that people are tired of all the precautions and what not.  This may sound silly, but for motivation, I sort of play a mind trick and think of the virus as an opponent.  It helps me to maintain vigilance and keep up with the safety measures.  Even if you are young and healthy, most of us here have parents or grandparents to think about.  We don't want to be the one to unknowingly pass it on to them, and all it takes is one face to face encounter.  

Exactly and coming from someone who has had go wear a mask the entire time going back to March, it sucks but I do it because safety matters and I have grandparents who are in their 80s and a mother who has had a heart attack before. I don't want anything to happen the any of them on the account of my carelessness.

[UMB WX]

lol at the fine print on bottom. Wholesale prices of gloves used in our food truck went from 7 bucks a box to 14.99.

[Malacka11]

56 minutes ago, Maestrobjwa said:

And that's something you can do without doing full-on March 2020 lockdowns...See, explain this to me: If mask wearing is the thing that could help diminish the spread and help to prevent the very lockdowns that people don't want...why in the world are folks up here saying "Eh, don't make people wear masks" yet they say "We can't lock everything down!" 

Because sadly, like ALEK pointed out yesterday, there is an appalling number of sociopaths in our society who couldn't be Fucked to wear a piece of fabric. 

[ikcarsky]

2 hours ago, StormfanaticInd said:

The only problem with that is you overwhelm the hospitals creating an even bigger problem because now no one can get any medical treatment 

Data suggests this is a transient problem as the virus makes its first pass through the more susceptible population.  This seems to be happening in states like WI now (and my state), where the spring surge was attenuated.  But once the virus passes completely through the susceptible population the rate of hospitalizations drop.  This may have happened in NYC, and I think that as autumn drags on we'll see their new cases go up while their hospitalizations will only rise slowly.  Also we're getting better at treatment (those who remember my first rants in this thread know that I think we could be doing much better though).

Still I do not disagree that making public health measures voluntary would be pretty rough for about 1% of the population.  We know who they are mostly likely to be (elders with comorbidities), and they should voluntarily adopt their own protective measures.

 

[Malacka11]

People seem to be forgetting that all of the data we have available to us thus far was generated during a legitimate quarantine. What I'm trying to say is, if everyone but the 1% who are at greatest risk of dropping dead (not being severely ill, which could be anyone, but dropping dead) suddenly stops taking the virus seriously, then you can be DAMN well sure that those hospitals are going to be extremely overwhelmed. And in this case, transiency - or a lack thereof - is entirely irrelevant, because the second that there are people in this country who are  unable to obtain adequate medical attention because of a lack of space, we'll know that we have failed as a nation. 

[StormfanaticInd]

Let's forget the regular flu season will be taking off soon to further overwhelming the hospitals 

[Hoosier]

Roller coaster ride in hospitalizations in Indiana.  I would say we are on a trajectory to surpass the hospitalization numbers from spring unless something changes like right now.

 

[Guest ovweather]

I still don't understand the big deal about having to wear a mask. To bring up the the fact yet again that shorts and shoes are required to enter businesses, and we aren't allowed to run around in public completely naked. So why aren't the anti-maskers crying about this? After all, isn't being told you must wear a shirt, shoes, and be properly clothed in public violating your constitutional rights as an American? Being told to wear a mask is the exact same thing as the other clothing rules of society. So what in the world is the big deal about wearing a freaking mask during a pandemic???

[StormfanaticInd]

Mentally this pandemic is wearing me out

I need a drink

[RyanDe680]

More proof that this isn’t a joke 

 

https://popculture.com/trending/news/fitness-influencer-dmitriy-stuzhuk-dead-33-due-coronavirus-insisting-hoax/

[dta1984]

49 minutes ago, StormfanaticInd said:

Let's forget the regular flu season will be taking off soon to further overwhelming the hospitals

Most likely will be a low flu season with all the precautions already in place 

[mississaugasnow]

5 hours ago, ikcarsky said:

At the risk of being "inhumane": it's time to accept defeat.  The virus is now endemic, not just in the US but the West as a whole.  It has won, and we've socially exhausted our ability to tolerate further lockdowns.  We had our chance to make lockdowns work and we failed.  Time to embrace that fact and restore overall quality of life by making all public health measures voluntary. If the State still wanted to do something useful, engage in mass distribution of Vitamin D and zinc supplements.  Media messaging and narratives should change to encourage prophylaxis and overall fitness (e.g. outdoor activity, weight loss) should be emphasized.  But ultimately let individuals take charge of their own health and act as they deem fit.  And open up everything.  (But I know this isn't going to happen.)

I said it in another forum, but im down for doing this but you can bet I want this to be across the board type acceptance. If I have to accept defeat then I want all work from home stopped and all CEOs and mid-high management also crowding into workspaces with the rest of us. There will be no mid-high level manager directing me to work from the comforts of his/her suburban house.

[OSUmetstud]

This report provides preliminary evidence that younger adults contributed to community transmission of COVID-19 to older adults. Across the southern United States in June 2020, the increase in SARS-CoV-2 infection among younger adults preceded the increase among older adults by 4–15 days (or approximately one to three incubation periods). Similar observations have been reported by the World Health Organization.*** Further investigation of community transmission dynamics across age groups to identify factors that might be driving infection among younger adults and subsequent transmission to older adults is warranted.

These findings have important clinical and public health implications. First, occupational and behavioral factors might put younger adults at higher risk for exposure to SARS-CoV-2. Younger adults make up a large proportion of workers in frontline occupations (e.g., retail stores, public transit, child care, and social services) and highly exposed industries (e.g., restaurants/bars, entertainment, and personal services) (4,5), where consistent implementation of prevention strategies might be difficult or not possible. In addition, younger adults might also be less likely to follow community mitigation strategies, such as social distancing and avoiding group gatherings (6,7). Second, younger adults, who are more likely to have mild or no symptoms,^††† can unknowingly contribute to presymptomatic or asymptomatic transmission to others (2), including to persons at higher risk for severe illness. Finally, SARS-CoV-2 infection is not benign in younger adults, especially among those with underlying medical conditions,^§§§ who are at risk for hospitalization, severe illness, and death (8).

Increased prevalence of SARS-CoV-2 infection among younger adults likely contributes to community transmission of COVID-19, including to persons at higher risk for severe illness, such as older adults. Emphasis should be placed on targeted mitigation strategies to reduce infection and transmission among younger adults, including age-appropriate prevention messages (7), restricting in-person gatherings and events,**** recommending mask use and social distancing in settings where persons socialize,^†††† implementing safe practices at on-site eating and drinking venues (9), and enforcing protection measures for essential and service industry workers.^§§§§ Given the role of asymptomatic and presymptomatic transmission (2), all persons, including young adults, should take extra precautions to avoid transmission to family and community members who are older or who have underlying medical conditions. Strict adherence to community mitigation strategies and personal preventive behaviors by younger adults is needed to help reduce their risk for infection and minimize subsequent transmission of SARS-CoV-2 to persons at higher risk for severe COVID-19.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6939e1.htm#F1_down

[ikcarsky]

13 hours ago, Malacka11 said:

People seem to be forgetting that all of the data we have available to us thus far was generated during a legitimate quarantine. What I'm trying to say is, if everyone but the 1% who are at greatest risk of dropping dead (not being severely ill, which could be anyone, but dropping dead) suddenly stops taking the virus seriously, then you can be DAMN well sure that those hospitals are going to be extremely overwhelmed. And in this case, transiency - or a lack thereof - is entirely irrelevant, because the second that there are people in this country who are  unable to obtain adequate medical attention because of a lack of space, we'll know that we have failed as a nation. 

This is a gross exaggeration and unsupported by case and hospitalization data.  Initial "first wave" case growth is exponential and hits the susceptible population hard when left unimpeded.  Once the virus runs through this population and has to work through tougher, fitter organisms, the new infections generally lead to milder cases.  We see this now in Europe where countries that crushed their first wave (Czech Republic) are seeing proportionally more severe cases than countries that were hit hard by their first wave (UK, France, etc.).

12 hours ago, StormfanaticInd said:

Let's forget the regular flu season will be taking off soon to further overwhelming the hospitals 

Flu season is probably canceled, possibly because COVID is blocking it.  Note how 2019 matched 2020 until COVID-19 popped up (log scale).  And that's not for lack of flu testing either.  We'll know for sure in a few weeks.

[OSUmetstud]

46 minutes ago, ikcarsky said:

This is a gross exaggeration and unsupported by case and hospitalization data.  Initial "first wave" case growth is exponential and hits the susceptible population hard when left unimpeded.  Once the virus runs through this population and has to work through tougher, fitter organisms, the new infections generally lead to milder cases.  We see this now in Europe where countries that crushed their first wave (Czech Republic) are seeing proportionally more severe cases than countries that were hit hard by their first wave (UK, France, etc.).

Flu season is probably canceled, possibly because COVID is blocking it.  Note how 2019 matched 2020 until COVID-19 popped up (log scale).  And that's not for lack of flu testing either.  We'll know for sure in a few weeks.

Agreed on the flu, it's more likely to be mild given what the southern hemisphere observed.

Eh. Not sure about this. We missed a ton of infections in the very beginning of the pandemic, so much so that there were maybe like 500K infections per day at the peak in early April in the US. We are catching a way higher proportion of infections now, so the ratio of cases-hospitalizations-deaths appears much higher. Most people are being fairly careful, especially so when they see an outbreak in their community and then take further action, which can drive the Rt back to near or under 1.  

[JoMo]

14 hours ago, ovweather said:

I still don't understand the big deal about having to wear a mask. To bring up the the fact yet again that shorts and shoes are required to enter businesses, and we aren't allowed to run around in public completely naked. So why aren't the anti-maskers crying about this? After all, isn't being told you must wear a shirt, shoes, and be properly clothed in public violating your constitutional rights as an American? Being told to wear a mask is the exact same thing as the other clothing rules of society. So what in the world is the big deal about wearing a freaking mask during a pandemic???

It's the "tone" in which people have when it comes to asking others to wear a mask. There's a certain condescending attitude prevalent when telling others to wear a mask. Being lectured and told you will "kill grandma" and that you're "selfish" if you don't wear a mask only makes people who don't wear masks dig in on not wearing a mask. I also think that for some people, it's a macho thing, to show that you aren't afraid of the virus and that you aren't going to allow it to stop you from living your life.

I personally hate wearing a mask, it's hot, uncomfortable, and just downright unpleasant, but I also have several people in my life that would probably die if they were to become infected so I have to be extra careful.  

EDIT: My belief is that if you want to wear a mask, then wear a mask, if you don't want to wear a mask, then don't wear a mask. If you want to get someone to wear a mask, then don't be a-hole about it, try to find out why they don't want to wear a mask and go from there. 

[Hoosier]

I'm ok with people not wearing a mask as long as they never leave the house and go out in public.  Otherwise, wear one when you are out and about.  The available info suggests that by wearing a mask, you are blocking more outbound than what is coming inbound.  Hence, a masked person going into a place where people aren't wearing them can still be at a fairly substantial risk of contracting the virus depending on the situation.

[Guest ovweather]

51 minutes ago, JoMo said:

It's the "tone" in which people have when it comes to asking others to wear a mask. There's a certain condescending attitude prevalent when telling others to wear a mask. Being lectured and told you will "kill grandma" and that you're "selfish" if you don't wear a mask only makes people who don't wear masks dig in on not wearing a mask. I also think that for some people, it's a macho thing, to show that you aren't afraid of the virus and that you aren't going to allow it to stop you from living your life.

I personally hate wearing a mask, it's hot, uncomfortable, and just downright unpleasant, but I also have several people in my life that would probably die if they were to become infected so I have to be extra careful.  

EDIT: My belief is that if you want to wear a mask, then wear a mask, if you don't want to wear a mask, then don't wear a mask. If you want to get someone to wear a mask, then don't be a-hole about it, try to find out why they don't want to wear a mask and go from there. 

I hate wearing a mask, too. I think most people do. It’s a pain in the butt. And I find myself frequently touching the mask to readjust it. Ironically, I’m probably touching my face a lot more while wearing a mask than I do when not wearing one. But, I will wear it and continue to wear it as long as need be if it helps fight the spread of the virus and sets a proper example.

I do agree with you that some people will just dig their heels in deeper when told they must wear a mask. Maybe it’s a pride thing or just a stupidity thing. Regardless, it’s a selfish behavior that shows no regard for anyone else but one’s self. That’s a mindset evident in society that this pandemic has really exposed. Everyone can do better; be more nice and empathetic. It really isn’t that hard.