Coronavirus

[nwohweather]

Was reading the Detroit Free Press and see that good ole Gov. Whitmer is mandating masks for organized sports? I'm convinced this woman is insane lol. This is why I don't put much stock in what DC has done with the response to this pandemic, these governors can do whatever they want. Feel bad for all the Michiganders at this point, while being wide open sure has its downside, so does being incredibly restrictive. At some point I hope these Midwest states realize their plans are like painkillers, sure it'll help one thing, but it's going to have tons of side effects.

Heck my one buddy who works at Ford R&D has been telling me that he plays golf 5 days a week and takes a vacation every two months just to get out of the state and be able to do regular things. It seems to be a common theme with friends and family in Michigan & Ohio, hardcore cabin fever over the restrictions

[Stebo]

It is not all sports that are mandated only the ones with close contact. To be honest those sports shouldn't even be played at a state level right now. There is way too much risk for kids to pass on the virus that can't be controlled or checked like at a professional level. 

And there are very few things restricted right now. Gyms opened up this week but people have to wear a mask, anyone complaining at this point is only complaining because they have to wear a mask for certain things. Mind you there are plenty of outdoor activities where you don't need to wear a mask at all.

[Stebo]

This clarifies the misnomers above

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/michigan/2020/09/10/whitmer-clarifies-order-masks-not-required-for-all-sports-in-michigan/

[BuffaloWeather]

4 minutes ago, Stebo said:

It is not all sports that are mandated only the ones with close contact. To be honest those sports shouldn't even be played at a state level right now. There is way too much risk for kids to pass on the virus that can't be controlled or checked like at a professional level. 

And there are very few things restricted right now. Gyms opened up this week but people have to wear a mask, anyone complaining at this point is only complaining because they have to wear a mask for certain things. Mind you there are plenty of outdoor activities where you don't need to wear a mask at all.

I've been at the gym a bunch of times already. The mask isn't too big of a deal for lifting weights but doing anything high intensity and it is extremely difficult. So I've been doing my cardio outside/home and weight lifting at the gym.

[Hoosier]

Cardio work is more fun outside of the gym anyway.  At least in my opinion.

[Stebo]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloWeather said:

I've been at the gym a bunch of times already. The mask isn't too big of a deal for lifting weights but doing anything high intensity and it is extremely difficult. So I've been doing my cardio outside/home and weight lifting at the gym.

Which is fine, it is not perfect but a place where there is a lot of heavy breathing and close contact you kind of want that mask on.

[NEOH]

1 hour ago, Stebo said:

Which is fine, it is not perfect but a place where there is a lot of heavy breathing and close contact you kind of want that mask on.

Crossfit gyms are open in Ohio... lots of heavy breathing but everyone is spaced apart. Even with the spacing everyone tends to congregate together. There are several doctors and surgeons at the gym every morning -- who never wear masks. It has been open since May and not one positive case. I tend to use the doctors/surgeons as a barometer for my concern level. Not one of them is overly concerned about COVID. 

[Jonger]

2 hours ago, BuffaloWeather said:

I've been at the gym a bunch of times already. The mask isn't too big of a deal for lifting weights but doing anything high intensity and it is extremely difficult. So I've been doing my cardio outside/home and weight lifting at the gym.

I tried doing the bench press at home with a mask on this past evening just to see what I could expect. My face was hot as f-ck, but it's doable.

The only reason the gym matters at this point has more to do with the lack of equipment for sale. You're limited to Facebook marketplace and people are gouging because they can.

A 45 lb. plate is $120. 

[the ghost of leroy]

Just now, Jonger said:

I tried doing the bench press at home with a mask on this past evening just to see what I could expect. My face was hot as f-ck, but it's doable.

The only reason the gym matters at this point has more to do with the lack of equipment for sale. You're limited to Facebook marketplace and people are gouging because they can.

A 45 lb. plate is $120. 

Ive always thought your face is hot af. Definitely your best feature after your height.

[Jonger]

4 minutes ago, the ghost of leroy said:

Ive always thought your face is hot af. Definitely your best feature after your height.

Dude, I'm pretty ripped now days...been lifting for 2 years now.

Thanks for the compliment, you should sub my OnlyFans page*. 

*joking.

[nwohweather]

On 9/10/2020 at 12:45 PM, Stebo said:

It is not all sports that are mandated only the ones with close contact. To be honest those sports shouldn't even be played at a state level right now. There is way too much risk for kids to pass on the virus that can't be controlled or checked like at a professional level. 

And there are very few things restricted right now. Gyms opened up this week but people have to wear a mask, anyone complaining at this point is only complaining because they have to wear a mask for certain things. Mind you there are plenty of outdoor activities where you don't need to wear a mask at all.

To say that you have to play "football, basketball, soccer, lacrosse, hockey, wrestling, field hockey, boxing and martial arts with opponents" with a mask on is absurd. You'd decrease the oxygen levels by limiting the CO2 that is exhaled during sports. That sounds as dangerous as breathing in COVID.

Also depriving teenagers of extra curricular activities they've done for years invites a lot of opportunity for drug and alcohol abuse as well as affects college prospects for the better athletes. Again too often reason continues to stray away in this crisis.

[fluoronium]

Wearing a mask while playing contact sports isn't going to be nearly as dangerous and the virus or even the sports themselves.  However, I doubt cloth face coverings are going to do much to prevent transmission during contact sports anyway due to the heavy breathing involved.

I was a martial arts instructor before the pandemic, but I think it's silly to be doing contact sports right now. I wish mask compliance at places like the grocery store was higher so it would be a lower risk to others by keeping gyms open. I can't blame my friends/family for being willing to accept the risk by going to the gym, but when I make the mistake of logging on to social media and seeing them fight for their life to not wear a mask, or even deny that the virus exists, I can't help but think we deserve this mess that we're in.

[mattb65]

2 hours ago, nwohweather said:

To say that you have to play "football, basketball, soccer, lacrosse, hockey, wrestling, field hockey, boxing and martial arts with opponents" with a mask on is absurd. You'd decrease the oxygen levels by limiting the CO2 that is exhaled during sports. That sounds as dangerous as breathing in COVID.

Also depriving teenagers of extra curricular activities they've done for years invites a lot of opportunity for drug and alcohol abuse as well as affects college prospects for the better athletes. Again too often reason continues to stray away in this crisis.

What kind of mask are you wearing? A plastic bag over your head?

Normal masks that are widespread do not affect oxygen levels and do not cause CO2 retention. Do you know how tiny these molecules are? They can freely move between the fibers of a normal mask.

Here's an ICU doc that ran 35k with a mask on, no effect whatsoever to oxygenation.

https://www.menshealth.com/fitness/a33521706/face-mask-oxygen-levels-running-myth-coronavirus-doctor-fact-check/

[WestMichigan]

This is an interesting take on what is happening.  https://reason.com/2020/09/11/the-covid-19-pandemic-keeps-proving-deadly-to-liberty/

[Stebo]

1 hour ago, WestMichigan said:

This is an interesting take on what is happening.  https://reason.com/2020/09/11/the-covid-19-pandemic-keeps-proving-deadly-to-liberty/

No, it is proving deadly to about 1000 people a day and with no known vaccine that number will continue because people are choosing their liberties over safety.

[Stebo]

5 hours ago, nwohweather said:

To say that you have to play "football, basketball, soccer, lacrosse, hockey, wrestling, field hockey, boxing and martial arts with opponents" with a mask on is absurd. You'd decrease the oxygen levels by limiting the CO2 that is exhaled during sports. That sounds as dangerous as breathing in COVID.

Also depriving teenagers of extra curricular activities they've done for years invites a lot of opportunity for drug and alcohol abuse as well as affects college prospects for the better athletes. Again too often reason continues to stray away in this crisis.

Hyperbole much? How about this, you worry about the lack of action in SC and let us who live up here worry about Michigan and what is happening here. 

[madwx]

Spain, France and a few other European countries are having a rough time again.  They really took the foot off the gas for social distancing measures and are now paying the price.

[Stebo]

1 minute ago, madwx said:

Spain, France and a few other European countries are having a rough time again.  They really took the foot off the gas for social distancing measures and are now paying the price.

Yep which is just proving that we can't become complacent especially going into winter.

[Malacka11]

Anyone who actually believes that generic face masks increase CO2 levels in the human body probably has a hard time wearing one due to their massive, protruding brow ridge. How does that even make sense? It's practically first grade knowledge that literal molecules are smaller in size than even viruses. How on earth do you look at a disposable mask and go "hurr durr, no way a CO2 molecule can fit through this".

I apologize for my condescending tone, but for Christ's sake I'm a college distance runner, and if I can wear a mask at practice, running seventy miles a week, then so can someone running around back and forth on a field. Or someone rolling around on a wrestling mat. 

Oh, by the way, athletic scholarships aren't worth much if your athletic capabilities cease to be because of a severe respiratory infection. 

[Hoosier]

Already over 1200 cases at Indiana University Bloomington.

[mattb65]

This is from a colleague who is an Army ICU doctor who has been deployed to a hard hit region of Texas. Pretty powerful perspective on why it's important for everyone to keep doing their part. It feels like we are near the finish line hopefully.

Everything below are my colleagues words:

I was lucky enough to spend the last seven weeks augmenting a civilian hospital in South Texas that was overwhelmed by COVID-19 cases. I traveled and practiced with an outstanding team of Army physicians, nurses, respiratory therapists, medics, and other medical staff. Here are a few things I learned that I believe are worth sharing:

 

1. COVID-19 makes people sicker, in more bizarre ways, for longer, and is more challenging to treat, than any other medical condition I have encountered in a decade of critical care. Our most effective therapies have a moderate effect in some patients but no effect at all in others. The best supportive care we can offer is extraordinarily labor-intensive. 

 

2. It doesn’t matter how statistically unlikely a bad outcome is for a person in your demographic; if you happen to be the 1 in 1000, you wind up just as dead. Cavalier dismissal of the problem makes my blood boil even more than it did before. 

 

3. The human cost of this crisis is far worse than the statistics, which are bad enough themselves. Every death has a ripple effect in a close knit community. Every success story of a patient surviving to hospital discharge comes with a caveat: they still have a long road to return to normal, if they are fortunate enough to ever get there.

 

4. Our fractured healthcare system is failing whole communities. From employer “sponsored” for-profit health insurance that disappears with an economic downturn; to the systematic neglect of primary and preventive care that yields an obese and unhealthy population at great risk for severe disease; to rapacious for-profit hospital systems that somehow beat EPS estimates last fiscal quarter; to bloated administrative staffs who continue to push unsafe staffing ratios even with an incredibly complex disease — COVID-19 is exposing the fundamental truth of American healthcare: that even with the best minds, best hands, and best tools, a system primarily designed to generate profit is profoundly unfit to provide healthcare.

 

5. The only thing holding the system together and offering any hope of good outcomes to hospitalized patients is the heroic work and sacrifice of a legion of healthcare workers. I saw people from every medical profession working longer hours, for more consecutive days, than should ever be considered safe; and though most carried the burden of this difficult work with grace, all will feel the emotional aftershocks for months or years to come. 

 

6. Simple preventive public health measures like wearing a mask and limiting gatherings make a much bigger difference than the elaborate and expensive things I can do in an ICU. The exponential growth of cases in this community did not stop when we added more ICU beds; it stopped when the local population started wearing masks and reduced the size and frequency of gatherings.

 

7. “Getting to herd immunity” is a ridiculous and frankly criminal policy proposal. This community was so devastated, and the local healthcare system so overwhelmed, that they needed extensive federal support for two months to get back on track; even after 30,000 cases and 1,400 deaths, they are far below the threshold for achieving meaningful herd immunity.

 

None of this is breaking news. You have heard it all before. But clearly, for reasons beyond my comprehension, many people still do not seem to get it. We need to come together as a community at every level - from neighborhood to nation - and do the uncomfortable, unpopular, but undeniably necessary things to safeguard ourselves and our neighbors. We can start by wearing masks, and once the short term problem is under control we can work on fixing our fundamentally flawed institutions. 

 

This is not someone else’s problem. It is my problem, and your problem. 

 

It’s time to stop pointing fingers and waiting around for a magical solution. It’s time to link arms (but not literally) and be the solution.

[CheeselandSkies]

1 hour ago, mattb65 said:

This is from a colleague who is an Army ICU doctor who has been deployed to a hard hit region of Texas. Pretty powerful perspective on why it's important for everyone to keep doing their part. It feels like we are near the finish line hopefully.

Everything below are my colleagues words:

I was lucky enough to spend the last seven weeks augmenting a civilian hospital in South Texas that was overwhelmed by COVID-19 cases. I traveled and practiced with an outstanding team of Army physicians, nurses, respiratory therapists, medics, and other medical staff. Here are a few things I learned that I believe are worth sharing:

 

1. COVID-19 makes people sicker, in more bizarre ways, for longer, and is more challenging to treat, than any other medical condition I have encountered in a decade of critical care. Our most effective therapies have a moderate effect in some patients but no effect at all in others. The best supportive care we can offer is extraordinarily labor-intensive. 

 

2. It doesn’t matter how statistically unlikely a bad outcome is for a person in your demographic; if you happen to be the 1 in 1000, you wind up just as dead. Cavalier dismissal of the problem makes my blood boil even more than it did before. 

 

3. The human cost of this crisis is far worse than the statistics, which are bad enough themselves. Every death has a ripple effect in a close knit community. Every success story of a patient surviving to hospital discharge comes with a caveat: they still have a long road to return to normal, if they are fortunate enough to ever get there.

 

4. Our fractured healthcare system is failing whole communities. From employer “sponsored” for-profit health insurance that disappears with an economic downturn; to the systematic neglect of primary and preventive care that yields an obese and unhealthy population at great risk for severe disease; to rapacious for-profit hospital systems that somehow beat EPS estimates last fiscal quarter; to bloated administrative staffs who continue to push unsafe staffing ratios even with an incredibly complex disease — COVID-19 is exposing the fundamental truth of American healthcare: that even with the best minds, best hands, and best tools, a system primarily designed to generate profit is profoundly unfit to provide healthcare.

 

5. The only thing holding the system together and offering any hope of good outcomes to hospitalized patients is the heroic work and sacrifice of a legion of healthcare workers. I saw people from every medical profession working longer hours, for more consecutive days, than should ever be considered safe; and though most carried the burden of this difficult work with grace, all will feel the emotional aftershocks for months or years to come. 

 

6. Simple preventive public health measures like wearing a mask and limiting gatherings make a much bigger difference than the elaborate and expensive things I can do in an ICU. The exponential growth of cases in this community did not stop when we added more ICU beds; it stopped when the local population started wearing masks and reduced the size and frequency of gatherings.

 

7. “Getting to herd immunity” is a ridiculous and frankly criminal policy proposal. This community was so devastated, and the local healthcare system so overwhelmed, that they needed extensive federal support for two months to get back on track; even after 30,000 cases and 1,400 deaths, they are far below the threshold for achieving meaningful herd immunity.

 

None of this is breaking news. You have heard it all before. But clearly, for reasons beyond my comprehension, many people still do not seem to get it. We need to come together as a community at every level - from neighborhood to nation - and do the uncomfortable, unpopular, but undeniably necessary things to safeguard ourselves and our neighbors. We can start by wearing masks, and once the short term problem is under control we can work on fixing our fundamentally flawed institutions. 

 

This is not someone else’s problem. It is my problem, and your problem. 

 

It’s time to stop pointing fingers and waiting around for a magical solution. It’s time to link arms (but not literally) and be the solution.

[Inverted_Trough]

I would expect that our plateau will continue through September and most of October.  November and December become problematic for obvious reasons.  Hopefully the outbreaks at universities stay confined there and doesn't move to older folks.

[dta1984]

On 9/10/2020 at 2:19 PM, NEOH said:

Crossfit gyms are open in Ohio... lots of heavy breathing but everyone is spaced apart. Even with the spacing everyone tends to congregate together. There are several doctors and surgeons at the gym every morning -- who never wear masks. It has been open since May and not one positive case. I tend to use the doctors/surgeons as a barometer for my concern level. Not one of them is overly concerned about COVID. 

It really is amazing how the levels of concern vary so much.  We've traveled a bit lately, and been to places where it seems covid doesn't exist (and their numbers show), and then others where it's full on panic.   

[NEOH]

50 minutes ago, dta1984 said:

It really is amazing how the levels of concern vary so much.  We've traveled a bit lately, and been to places where it seems covid doesn't exist (and their numbers show), and then others where it's full on panic.   

Yep, there is a disparity in concern levels for sure. Seems like those most concerned have chronic conditions themselves, or close relatives with them. Those with "healthy" households it seems like business as usual. I haven't traveled much and don't have plans to. My life basically revolves around a 10 mile radius. What I find funny is all of the instacart shoppers coming to this area from urban areas -- I was talking with one who said they like coming "out here" because its cleaner and nicer than the urban stores. Seems like a recipe for spreading the virus. Especially when the bring their kids, boyfriends, girlfriends to shop with them. 

[nwohweather]

It really is amazing how the levels of concern vary so much.  We've traveled a bit lately, and been to places where it seems covid doesn't exist (and their numbers show), and then others where it's full on panic.   

It’s what draws me to this forum. I’ve lived in SC for the duration of this so it’s hard for me to relate to the fear seen in a lot of the posts.

There’s caution here, but everyone is going about their lives, just with a mask

[Hoosier]

Death toll hit 200,000 on worldometers today.  To think nobody knew what the hell covid was a year ago.

[Stebo]

I am very pleasantly surprised about the mask usage in the UP. I would put it at 99% indoors and about 75% outdoors. And those who aren't wearing outside are definitely social distancing. Also nearly everything here is open except those places that have closed for the season. 

[NEOH]

Received this from the Cleveland Clinic in their monthly eNewsletter -- The flu/COVID combo doesn't sound very good. 

With the coronavirus occupying most of our thoughts these days, you might not be thinking about the flu. But it’s more important than ever to get your flu shot.

 Why? The flu is a serious respiratory illness, which kills about 40,000 people each year. And it hasn’t disappeared because of the pandemic. With the coronavirus pandemic overlapping with the start of flu season, there could be a surge of sick patients as we head into winter. In rare cases, some patients might get both flu and COVID-19 and become severely ill.

 

[CheeselandSkies]

There were some isolated reports early on of people with severe symptoms testing positive for both the flu and COVID-19. Could have been an issue with the early tests or they could genuinely have been infected with both viruses at the same time.