Coronavirus

[Stebo]

1 hour ago, mattb65 said:

What he describes is what happened in NYC and to be somewhat fair, their situation is much more under control than most other areas. But the scale of the carnage and cost of letting it run out of control were so extreme in NYC that I don't see how anyone can come in and say that we should have all let it rip until hospitals were overwhelmed. Sure, people would not be debating how serious it is like they currently do but the cost in human life and suffering would be unconscionable to choose that path.

Problem with his terrible post is that yes NYC is like that, but how many died and how many got COVID with unknown long term ramifications. They were completely overwhelmed there.

[Hoosier]

I really hope we aren't looking at like 400,000 dead by the end of winter, but I fear that is an outcome that is within reach.

Let's be optimistic and say we get a good, relatively effective vaccine(s) that come out by the end of the year.  Even with the effort to mass produce, it's still going to be prioritized for certain groups/occupations right when it comes out.  The dent that it would be able to put in the outbreak will be somewhat limited at first.  We really need a better, widely available treatment than what we have now.  The monoclonal antibodies  (sp?) sounds promising but again, how widely available will that be over the next several months?

A little scary to think where we would be right now if we had left everything open all over the country and everyone went about life as usual with NO masks or social distancing.  imo we would already have over a half million deaths.

[dta1984]

1 hour ago, Hoosier said:

I really hope we aren't looking at like 400,000 dead by the end of winter, but I fear that is an outcome that is within reach.

Let's be optimistic and say we get a good, relatively effective vaccine(s) that come out by the end of the year.  Even with the effort to mass produce, it's still going to be prioritized for certain groups/occupations right when it comes out.  The dent that it would be able to put in the outbreak will be somewhat limited at first.  We really need a better, widely available treatment than what we have now.  The monoclonal antibodies  (sp?) sounds promising but again, how widely available will that be over the next several months?

A little scary to think where we would be right now if we had left everything open all over the country and everyone went about life as usual with NO masks or social distancing.  imo we would already have over a half million deaths.

Sounds like hydroxychloroquine.

https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study

[UMB WX]

^  The Keywords are IN THE HOSPITAL use of  hydroxychloroquine.. We been known it helps used under medical staff watch due to the effects that can kill you.

[Inverted_Trough]

10 minutes ago, dta1984 said:

Sounds like hydroxychloroquine.

https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study

This study was thoroughly debunked when it came out.  They also gave the HCQ patients steroids 

[Hoosier]

39 minutes ago, Inverted_Trough said:

This study was thoroughly debunked when it came out.  They also gave the HCQ patients steroids 

Yeah, it is sort of buried in one of the links embedded at the original link, but it mentions that 68% were also receiving methylprednisolone/prednisone.

The FDA ended the emergency use authorization for HCQ, so regardless of whether anyone thinks it works or not, it is not going to be widely prescribed in the US for covid anymore.

[Jonger]

I'm still waiting to see a single municipality on planet earth that had a sustained spike in April-May that actually has had a resurgence.

I mean seriously, this is a science forum with people who view data as paramount. Are we really not going to talk about why this is?

Lol

[Hoosier]

5 minutes ago, Jonger said:

I'm still waiting to see a single municipality on planet earth that had a sustained spike in April-May that actually has had a resurgence.

I mean seriously, this is a science forum with people who view data as paramount. Are we really not going to talk about why this is?

Lol

Depends on how you define "resurgence."  There are places that have gone back up but not to the previous levels.

[Jonger]

6 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

Depends on how you define "resurgence."  There are places that have gone back up but not to the previous levels.

There's talk about moving Michigan back to phase 3 and that would kill face to face school opening. One peek at the data shows this to be a total overstep. 

 

[NEOH]

15 hours ago, dta1984 said:

Sounds like hydroxychloroquine.

https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study

Emergency room doc I know said that remdesivir has been very helpful. Chances of dying down greatly with its use. He also said the most common chronic condition of those that become seriously ill is obesity... much more than hypertension. It would be interesting to know if they are tracking which chronic conditions the patients have that die. The sad part is that most people have controllable chronic conditions such as obesity, but have ignored the warnings for years... then COVID comes along. 

[RobertSul]

2 hours ago, Jonger said:

There's talk about moving Michigan back to phase 3 and that would kill face to face school opening. One peek at the data shows this to be a total overstep. 

 

Explain your reasoning. There were 1,167 new cases yesterday. 

[Hoosier]

I think the recommendation is that places with over 5% positivity rate shouldn't have in person school.  That would be a significant part of the country and its obviously not being followed everywhere.  

[Jonger]

9 minutes ago, RobertSul said:

Explain your reasoning. There were 1,167 new cases yesterday. 

Lol @ cases 

In a state of 9.5M.

Let's rob kids of a childhood and ruin livelihoods over that.

[Jonger]

Wake me up when people in a low risk situation are dying. Until then, let's mask up and get back to business and school.

[dta1984]

48 minutes ago, NEOH said:

Emergency room doc I know said that remdesivir has been very helpful. Chances of dying down greatly with its use. He also said the most common chronic condition of those that become seriously ill is obesity... much more than hypertension. It would be interesting to know if they are tracking which chronic conditions the patients have that die. The sad part is that most people have controllable chronic conditions such as obesity, but have ignored the warnings for years... then COVID comes along. 

Good info. 

Ya, i have said it before, but there needs to be more said about the importance of lifestyle changes with eating, exercising etc.   This is a huge reason why America is having such a tough time with this   The media should be pushing that more than they are (almost none).

[RobertSul]

34 minutes ago, Jonger said:

Lol @ cases 

In a state of 9.5M.

Let's rob kids of a childhood and ruin livelihoods over that.

What kind of childhood would you have if you knew you spread a disease to your at-risk parents (or guardian grandparents), which either directly killed them or severely affected their health for years to come?

Do you think cases just hit a wall at that number and stop spreading? If a thousand people are infected, that can easily infect tens of thousands more in just a month. 

By TEMPORARILY limiting interactions, you’re greatly lowering the spread, and then normal to semi-normal operations can resume again. No one is saying keep kids learning remotely for the whole school year. This isn’t as linear and one-note as you seem to think it is. 

 

[NEOH]

36 minutes ago, dta1984 said:

Good info. 

Ya, i have said it before, but there needs to be more said about the importance of lifestyle changes with eating, exercising etc.   This is a huge reason why America is having such a tough time with this   The media should be pushing that more than they are (almost none).

Exactly... you hear so much about preventing the spread, but nothing about lifestyle changes you can make to improve your health and reduce your risk. America is just told to make sure you wear a mask to McDonalds or xyz fast food place. I think 300k or so people die in the US each year from obesity, and roughly 40% of the population are obese.  

[RobertSul]

37 minutes ago, dta1984 said:

Good info. 

Ya, i have said it before, but there needs to be more said about the importance of lifestyle changes with eating, exercising etc.   This is a huge reason why America is having such a tough time with this   The media should be pushing that more than they are (almost none).

People naturally respond to acute problems more than chronic. The MSM has covered plenty on the obesity crisis over the years, and I hate to trigger you, but the former administration even had an initiative that improved nutritional values in school lunches that has since been scrapped for cheaper, unhealthier replacements. 

https://www.fns.usda.gov/pressrelease/002312

[Jonger]

2 hours ago, NEOH said:

Exactly... you hear so much about preventing the spread, but nothing about lifestyle changes you can make to improve your health and reduce your risk. America is just told to make sure you wear a mask to McDonalds or xyz fast food place. I think 300k or so people die in the US each year from obesity, and roughly 40% of the population are obese.  

Without obesity, this would probably have never been a thing to begin with. It's a small minority of non-obese people dying... a very small minority. 

As much as I believe Sweden handled it correctly, we probably couldn't take that same path without a higher death per million count. We would flood hospitals with the older, obese population.

[Hoosier]

11 minutes ago, Jonger said:

Without obesity, this would probably have never been a thing to begin with. It's a small minority of non-obese people dying... a very small minority. 

As much as I believe Sweden handled it correctly, we probably couldn't take that same path without a higher death per million count. We would flood hospitals with the older, obese population.

I don't know about that.  I can't find good numbers on it but I think the risk of dying from this is pretty significant for people in their 80s or older, regardless of whether they are obese.  But for someone in that age group who is also obese, that is a really bad combination.

[chances14]

2 hours ago, RobertSul said:

People naturally respond to acute problems more than chronic. The MSM has covered plenty on the obesity crisis over the years, and I hate to trigger you, but the former administration even had an initiative that improved nutritional values in school lunches that has since been scrapped for cheaper, unhealthier replacements. 

https://www.fns.usda.gov/pressrelease/002312

Americans aren't obese because of crappy school lunches. It's all about lifestyles choices. You want to help your kids avoid being obese and develop good habits, make them go outside, get some exercise and don't let them plop in front of the tv and their smartphones for hours on end. Actually take the time to make home cooked meals instead of eating out every day.

[Jonger]

16 minutes ago, chances14 said:

Americans aren't obese because of crappy school lunches. It's all about lifestyles choices. You want to help your kids avoid being obese and develop good habits, make them go outside, get some exercise and don't let them plop in front of the tv and their smartphones for hours on end. Actually take the time to make home cooked meals instead of eating out every day.

I mean... it couldn't hurt, but 3 square meals eaten daily with a snack before bed probably contributes more than anything. I personally stopped eating lunch and my own situation has improved dramatically.

This whole problem can't be solved by the government. For one thing, obesity really accelerates for people in their 30s. I doubt Obama's school lunch initiatives will matter for most.

[Guest ovweather]

53 minutes ago, chances14 said:

Americans aren't obese because of crappy school lunches. It's all about lifestyles choices. You want to help your kids avoid being obese and develop good habits, make them go outside, get some exercise and don't let them plop in front of the tv and their smartphones for hours on end. Actually take the time to make home cooked meals instead of eating out every day.

Crappy food only makes one fat if they eat too much of it (and don’t exercise). School lunches were crappy when I went to school back in the 70’s and 80’s, but ironically there was not nearly the amount of fat people then as there are today. What has changed over the past 25-30 years? The evolution of the internet and it’s toys, as well as a gazillion TV channels, certainly haven’t helped, but why have Americans gotten so lazy about their health?

How obesity relates to Covid is up for debate, but being fat certainly doesn’t help one’s chances of surviving a serious illness or having long-lasting complications. What percentage of people dying from Covid are obese? Is this data even being kept?

[Stebo]

20 hours ago, dta1984 said:

Sounds like hydroxychloroquine.

https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study

This study only works if you catch it extremely early, I have no idea why Henry Ford hospitals released this data when it is highly unproven.

[Stebo]

3 hours ago, RobertSul said:

What kind of childhood would you have if you knew you spread a disease to your at-risk parents (or guardian grandparents), which either directly killed them or severely affected their health for years to come?

Do you think cases just hit a wall at that number and stop spreading? If a thousand people are infected, that can easily infect tens of thousands more in just a month. 

By TEMPORARILY limiting interactions, you’re greatly lowering the spread, and then normal to semi-normal operations can resume again. No one is saying keep kids learning remotely for the whole school year. This isn’t as linear and one-note as you seem to think it is. 

 

He is fixated on death only, when we don't know any of the long term complications from even people who were asymptomatic let alone those who ended up with pneumonia.

[Jonger]

23 minutes ago, Stebo said:

He is fixated on death only, when we don't know any of the long term complications from even people who were asymptomatic let alone those who ended up with pneumonia.

We know the long term problems associated with a bad economy and kids not going to school. That's proven.

[Stebo]

1 minute ago, Jonger said:

We know the long term problems associated with a bad economy and kids not going to school. That's proven.

The kids still are getting an education just not in school, and compared to long term medical issues kids having a year off of school is far from the worst thing. I am not for a generation of heart attack and stroke victims.

[purduewx80]

5 hours ago, Jonger said:

Wake me up when people in a low risk situation are dying. Until then, let's mask up and get back to business and school.

wake me up when your at-risk kid catches it and you're still downplaying everything.

[Santa Clause]

Nothing will ever make Jonger think this is the least bit worrisome. Another 61k cases and 1200 dead.

[nwohweather]

We know the long term problems associated with a bad economy and kids not going to school. That's proven.

Yeah I’m actually with ya there. Kids have to be in class, this isn’t college where everyone has the resources, this is K-12. Your families with crappy parents and no computers are going to really suffer this year, those kids will get basically no education.

Health is important but with cancelling sports and having remote high school/college, we are raising the chance of serious societal issues on young people. IMO I’d rather risk COVID than missing out on these things. Have to be cautious, can’t be paralyzed by fear