Coronavirus

[nwohweather]

I understand this is a highly liberal forum and that's what makes this a somewhat enjoyable conversation, but would you guys want a European/Canadian system ran by Donald Trump & Mike Pence? Or George Bush & Dick Cheney? In the last 40 years we've had Republican control of the Executive Branch for 24 of those. Our country loves the center-right with a relatively weak central government, that's why Trump won. Obama was fairly liberal and Trump winning was a reaction to that. Likewise Trump has some far-right beliefs that are going to cause a jump back to the left with a Biden win in November.

Would you guys rather live in a world where we debate the coronavirus rules or a world where it doesn't matter because DC does whatever it wants? I personally believe Gov. Whitmer has gone too far, and likewise Gov. McMaster here has not gone far enough. Regardless I am glad we live in a country where this debate can be taken to Columbia or Lansing. 

[OSUmetstud]

28 minutes ago, nwohweather said:

I understand this is a highly liberal forum and that's what makes this a somewhat enjoyable conversation, but would you guys want a European/Canadian system ran by Donald Trump & Mike Pence? Or George Bush & Dick Cheney? In the last 40 years we've had Republican control of the Executive Branch for 24 of those. Our country loves the center-right with a relatively weak central government, that's why Trump won. Obama was fairly liberal and Trump winning was a reaction to that. Likewise Trump has some far-right beliefs that are going to cause a jump back to the left with a Biden win in November.

Would you guys rather live in a world where we debate the coronavirus rules or a world where it doesn't matter because DC does whatever it wants? I personally believe Gov. Whitmer has gone too far, and likewise Gov. McMaster here has not gone far enough. Regardless I am glad we live in a country where this debate can be taken to Columbia or Lansing. 

I live in Canada, there's plenty of debate going on here. If you think that the US is the only place where there is healthy political debate or disagreement, i don't know what to tell you. Your view of Canada and Europe is cartoonish. Trump is not for relatively weak central government, he has authoritarian tendencies and admires dictators. 

[nwohweather]

Just now, OSUmetstud said:

I live in Canada, there's plenty of debate going on here. If you think that the US is the only place where there is healthy political debate or disagreement, i don't know what to tell you. Your view of Canada and Europe is cartoonish. Trump is not for relatively weak central government, he has authoritarian tendencies and admires dictators. 

I didn't say there was not debate, I said it can be taken to Columbia & Lansing. Provinces do not have near the authority that states do, so most things need to be taken to Ottawa.

Also I said our country loves the center-right with a relatively weak central government, not our President. I agree, he has some disconcerting tendencies and I think most of the country agrees with that. 

It would help if you accurately read my post and then offered rebuttal.

[OSUmetstud]

Just now, nwohweather said:

I didn't say there was not debate, I said it can be taken to Columbia & Lansing. Provinces do not have near the authority that states do, so most things need to be taken to Ottawa.

Also I said our country loves the center-right with a relatively weak central government, not our President. I agree, he has some disconcerting tendencies and I think most of the country agrees with that. 

It would help if you accurately read my post and then offered rebuttal.

That might be right in the grand scheme of things, but in the current paradigm, provinces do have different covid restrictions. Quebec, for example, had/has more lax rules, and likewise, has had far more disease and death than the other provinces thus far. 

The Atlantic Canada provinces got together and decided to bubble together and not allow other Canadians who don't have residency or anyone else for that matter come here to prevent spread. The rest of Canada has not done that. 

I'm alright with state's rights, but in the same vein, that doesn't mean that there's no place for leadership on the national level. We don't have that right now. Leadership doesn't have to mean legislation.

Countries like Germany have navigated the pandemic relatively well, why do Americans accept that similar couldn't have been or couldn't be done here? So much talk about American greatness, but where's the beef? 

[Stebo]

1 minute ago, nwohweather said:

I didn't say there was not debate, I said it can be taken to Columbia & Lansing. Provinces do not have near the authority that states do, so most things need to be taken to Ottawa.

Also I said our country loves the center-right with a relatively weak central government, not our President. I agree, he has some disconcerting tendencies and I think most of the country agrees with that. 

It would help if you accurately read my post and then offered rebuttal.

That is why the country as a whole votes liberally and has more times than not since 2000. There are political reasons why the right has power but by all means it isn't because of the country's love for a center-right weak central government which the votes prove the exact opposite. Also I find it ironic that you have a complaint of Whitmer doing too much as an outsider when this state she has 60% approval rating of how she has handled the pandemic.

[nwohweather]

6 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

That might be right in the grand scheme of things, but in the current paradigm, provinces do have different covid restrictions. Quebec, for example, had/has more lax rules, and likewise, has had far more disease and death than the other provinces thus far. 

The Atlantic Canada provinces got together and decided to bubble together and not allow other Canadians who don't have residency or anyone else for that matter come here to prevent spread. The rest of Canada has not done that. 

I'm alright with state's rights, but in the same vein, that doesn't mean that there's no place for leadership on the national level. We don't have that right now. Leadership doesn't have to mean legislation.

Countries like Germany have navigated the pandemic relatively well, why do Americans accept that similar couldn't have been or couldn't be done here? So much talk about American greatness, but where's the beef? 

I agree, it's a tough balancing act. I think you hit the nail on the head with that last part, why did Americans not accept those types of restrictions? Lets face it, this is less on our government and more on our citizens. I've been wearing a mask in public places since March and quite frankly that is a rarity down here. 

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/08/27/more-americans-say-they-are-regularly-wearing-masks-in-stores-and-other-businesses/

We can go back and forth but the reality is this country for whatever reason really didn't get into mask wearing until August. I have no clue why Americans are so adamant against this.

 

Also in reply to Stebo most Governors have an approval of their handling of this quite high. In fact this article shows her 28th in the country in overall approval at 63%. It's pretty wild how well the governors are favored, and Congress is not.

https://stacker.com/stories/4227/approval-ratings-how-every-governor-handling-covid-19?page=3

[Stebo]

1 hour ago, nwohweather said:

I agree, it's a tough balancing act. I think you hit the nail on the head with that last part, why did Americans not accept those types of restrictions? Lets face it, this is less on our government and more on our citizens. I've been wearing a mask in public places since March and quite frankly that is a rarity down here. 

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/08/27/more-americans-say-they-are-regularly-wearing-masks-in-stores-and-other-businesses/

We can go back and forth but the reality is this country for whatever reason really didn't get into mask wearing until August. I have no clue why Americans are so adamant against this.

 

Also in reply to Stebo most Governors have an approval of their handling of this quite high. In fact this article shows her 28th in the country in overall approval at 63%. It's pretty wild how well the governors are favored, and Congress is not.

https://stacker.com/stories/4227/approval-ratings-how-every-governor-handling-covid-19?page=3

It isn't remotely weird, the governors are doing shit to keep people alive, the congress namely the Senate isn't. People like living as safely as possible.

[dta1984]

Speaking of the MI governor....

https://www.yahoo.com/news/feds-charge-six-militia-members-160654002.html

 

[Hoosier]

7 minutes ago, dta1984 said:

Speaking of the MI governor....

https://www.yahoo.com/news/feds-charge-six-militia-members-160654002.html

 

Scary stuff

Not stated explicitly in the story, but not unreasonable to think this is coming from her handling of the pandemic.  Arguably she has gotten more attention about it than 45+ other governors.

Not the place to discuss it, but we are likely in for some crazy times imo, as if 2020 hasn't been wild enough already.

[Cary67]

2 hours ago, nwohweather said:

I agree, it's a tough balancing act. I think you hit the nail on the head with that last part, why did Americans not accept those types of restrictions? Lets face it, this is less on our government and more on our citizens. I've been wearing a mask in public places since March and quite frankly that is a rarity down here. 

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/08/27/more-americans-say-they-are-regularly-wearing-masks-in-stores-and-other-businesses/

We can go back and forth but the reality is this country for whatever reason really didn't get into mask wearing until August. I have no clue why Americans are so adamant against this.

 

Also in reply to Stebo most Governors have an approval of their handling of this quite high. In fact this article shows her 28th in the country in overall approval at 63%. It's pretty wild how well the governors are favored, and Congress is not.

https://stacker.com/stories/4227/approval-ratings-how-every-governor-handling-covid-19?page=3

A harsh reality is that a significant percentage of Americans don't want to sacrifice what they consider their entitled to.  They put up with strict lock downs for 4-6 weeks then had enough. Whether it is indoor dining, heading to bars(hello Wisconsin), or catching a movie. Or perhaps like in IL screaming to play high school sports or receive in person sc hooling. Or in my case your kids would need to travel to another state to play soccer. Some of the most hated governors are the ones with stricter covid policies(hello Pritzker and Whitmer). The ugly truth is this disease's  infection mortality rate is around .35%-.65% give or take. So too many people have milder versions or don't know the possible long term effects of having it. Thus even though .35% of 320 million would kill about 1.12 million people if allowed to run its course, most people figure it won't be them. They look at the deaths as numbers on a page and figure if your vulnerable hide in your basement till a vaccine comes out. But don't make me sacrifice what I want to do. Trump has some blame for this but alot of people have been given choices with enough info at hand and have made them. And this doesn't mean you have more lockdowns it just means Americans need to wear masks and not engage in activities where you hang out with people not wearing them. As for restaurants and bars order take out and demand the govt give these types of businesses a huge bailout into the spring to keep them afloat till a vaccine does arrive. Also believe in person education can be done or at least given the chance with the right safety protocols in place.

[luckyweather]

stories of selfish people

That’s where the “I’m moving to Canada” is rooted in. This has been eye opening for me, I didn’t know how many self centered and myopic people were all around me, and how pervasive such mindsets are all across the country. As Hoosier said, buckle up as I don’t know where this goes but I don’t think it goes there quietly and peacefully.

[Hoosier]

Illinois cases topped 3000 today for the first time in a while.  They are trying to figure out a plan to reopen Chicago Public Schools so this news won't make things easier.

[Maestrobjwa]

2 hours ago, Hoosier said:

Scary stuff

Not stated explicitly in the story, but not unreasonable to think this is coming from her handling of the pandemic.  Arguably she has gotten more attention about it than 45+ other governors.

Not the place to discuss it, but we are likely in for some crazy times imo, as if 2020 hasn't been wild enough already.

Yeah that is scary...I thank God they caught them. What saddens me is that there could be a portion of people that would've heartily agreed with what they wanted to do...is this where we are? Smh But as you said, the pandemic drove some of this, I'm sure...

Don't be surprised if 2020 saves it's best crazy for the last three months (I mean, look where we are already!)

[Hoosier]

The way our upcoming holidays fall on the calendar is bad timing for something like this.  They are only spaced about 4 weeks apart (for the most part), so you don't really get to observe and digest the full impact of one before the next one is already coming.

Would like to be wrong but imo, things will get worse with each successive holiday.  Would expect a bump after halloween, then a more significant increase after thanksgiving.  The thanksgiving to mid-December period or so is interesting because so many college kids will be returning home, potentially bringing the virus with them.  Then you get to late December and New Year's.  

[Inverted_Trough]

+2200 hospitalizations today in the US.  It appears this is the start of the third wave.

[mattb65]

1 hour ago, Hoosier said:

The way our upcoming holidays fall on the calendar is bad timing for something like this.  They are only spaced about 4 weeks apart (for the most part), so you don't really get to observe and digest the full impact of one before the next one is already coming.

Would like to be wrong but imo, things will get worse with each successive holiday.  Would expect a bump after halloween, then a more significant increase after thanksgiving.  The thanksgiving to mid-December period or so is interesting because so many college kids will be returning home, potentially bringing the virus with them.  Then you get to late December and New Year's.  

These are all unfortunately joyous times in normal circumstances that you rightly point out will almost certainly drive increased spread of this virus. 

I made a post a little over a week ago predicting over 100k new cases a day by the end of this month and unfortunately feel this is likely to become reality. And this is before the holidays that you mention.

I do think there will need to be some sort of policy response to the worst areas affected. I know the covid fatigue is strong at this point especially in some areas.

Here in Hawaii, our county went back to stay at home type restrictions about a month ago due to a big spike in cases/hospitalizations and it bent back the outbreak significantly and have put forward a tiered opening plan with gates based on per capita daily infection and on % positive rate.

The building outbreaks especially across the Midwest are going to be a big challenge because the message from the leadership in the federal government is still essentially anti restriction and let people do what they want. The task force and CDC have other recommendations but those are not being amplified by the president or VP

Tough times ahead.

[Guest ovweather]

It’s telling that Mitch McConnell hasn’t been to the White House in over two months because their protocols are different than his - mainly wearing a mask is frowned upon at the WH and McConnell is a big mask wearer / supporter. Mitch is a hypocrite about a lot of things, but at least he gets the seriousness of the virus.

[mississaugasnow]

7 hours ago, luckyweather said:

 

That’s where the “I’m moving to Canada” is rooted in. This has been eye opening for me, I didn’t know how many self centered and myopic people were all around me, and how pervasive such mindsets are all across the country. As Hoosier said, buckle up as I don’t know where this goes but I don’t think it goes there quietly and peacefully.

 

As a Canadian it does get a bit tiring hearing conservatives say "move to Canada" and liberals say "im moving to Canada" 

I get that its mostly used as a talking point but as Stebo pointed out we actually control our border and immigration and no just showing up to the Canadian border saying you want to live here doesn't work. A guy I work with is from Louisiana and he married a Canadian and still had boatloads of paper work to do and money spent to accomplish it. 

Also Ottawa doesn't run the entire country. British Columbia and Alberta are about as politically similar as Alabama and California. We literally have 1 province Quebec who had a referendum to leave Canada in the mid 1990s. If Ottawa ruled with an iron first as the guy from SC makes it sound like, I doubt Quebec would be given that choice. 

End Rant haha 

[StormfanaticInd]

22 States with over a thousand cases yesterday. I hate to say it but we need to brace ourselves for tough times ahead until they can get a vaccine 

[mississaugasnow]

CBC has learned that the new daily cases for Ontario will be between 900-1000K in the last 24 hours. The province has scheduled an emergency meeting for 11:30am to see what can be done 

Yesterday was the most ever recorded at 797

[Hoosier]

Today's reported case number in Indiana is the highest since the pandemic began.  Positivity rates have also been creeping up and up, and are now closing in on 9% on new individuals (so excluding people getting tested multiple times) over the past week.  This situation is probably not sustainable in the long run and I suspect places like bars/restaurants may ultimately need to return to some level of restriction.

[Stebo]

3 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

Today's reported case number in Indiana is the highest since the pandemic began.  Positivity rates have also been creeping up and up, and are now closing in on 9% on new individuals (so excluding people getting tested multiple times) over the past week.  This situation is probably not sustainable in the long run and I suspect places like bars/restaurants may ultimately need to return to some level of restriction.

It was idiotic to open everything up no restriction, this is just proving how idiotic it is.

[Snowstorms]

4 hours ago, mississaugasnow said:

CBC has learned that the new daily cases for Ontario will be between 900-1000K in the last 24 hours. The province has scheduled an emergency meeting for 11:30am to see what can be done 

Yesterday was the most ever recorded at 797

939 cases today. Highest yet. Doug Ford just announced all gyms and indoor dining will be temporarily closed for 28 days effective as early as tomorrow. Casinos and convention centers could also close. Practically stage 2 lockdown again. 44% of recent outbreaks in Toronto have been tied to restaurants and other entertainment venues. We’ve been on a steady increase since late August, so this was inevitable.

[Hoosier]

4 minutes ago, Stebo said:

It was idiotic to open everything up no restriction, this is just proving how idiotic it is.

The full opening of bars/restaurants was just a couple weeks ago, so there's a correlation.  Could be seasonal influence too.

I think there are political considerations with the governor being up for reelection this November, so I'm not sure what the timing will be.  If I'm only grading against other Republican governors, I think Holcomb has done better than average with this most of the way.  But, the data didn't really support going to 100% opening on those higher risk places. 

[Stebo]

1 minute ago, Hoosier said:

The full opening of bars/restaurants was just a couple weeks ago, so there's a correlation.  Could be seasonal influence too.

I think there are political considerations with the governor being up for reelection this November, so I'm not sure what the timing will be.  If I'm only grading against other Republican governors, I think Holcomb has done better than average with this most of the way.  But, the data didn't really support going to 100% opening on those higher risk places. 

Probably a combo there but definitely a contribution comes from the reopening.

[BuffaloWeather]

It's Oct 9th. Wait until we hit Jan/Feb. 100k+ cases a day? Everyone that gets the flu are going to think they have covid. 

[Hoosier]

19 minutes ago, Stebo said:

Probably a combo there but definitely a contribution comes from the reopening.

I remember questioning it at the time.  Bars/restaurants went to 100% on September 26, and it's not like we had been in a sustained decline prior to that.  It was oscillating.

Today's number of over 1800 is not on here yet 

 

[nwohweather]

52 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

I remember questioning it at the time.  Bars/restaurants went to 100% on September 26, and it's not like we had been in a sustained decline prior to that.  It was oscillating.

Today's number of over 1800 is not on here yet 

 

The massive upticks can all be related to numerous spread at state universities. It's absolute bologna that these state governments sit here and complain about numbers/threaten more restrictions, and yet sanction the housing of thousands of young adults in close proximity in order to earn tuition money. 

[Hoosier]

24 minutes ago, nwohweather said:

The massive upticks can all be related to numerous spread at state universities. It's absolute bologna that these state governments sit here and complain about numbers/threaten more restrictions, and yet sanction the housing of thousands of young adults in close proximity in order to earn tuition money. 

No doubt that is a factor, but there is increasing spread in some rural counties without a college/university, at least in Indiana.  

A relative of mine attends Indiana University, and last I heard he is only in the classroom 1 day per week with the rest being virtual.  Obviously it's going to vary student by student and college by college though.

[Stebo]

43 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

No doubt that is a factor, but there is increasing spread in some rural counties without a college/university, at least in Indiana.  

A relative of mine attends Indiana University, and last I heard he is only in the classroom 1 day per week with the rest being virtual.  Obviously it's going to vary student by student and college by college though.

Schools been open since mid to late August, it wasn't until the last 10 days that things are skyrocketing. I'd say schools contributed to not allowing things to go down but more shit opening was a much bigger contribution.