Coronavirus

[nwohweather]

Yeah it’s probably time to rip the band-aid off and reopen. We’ve stopped it from destroying our health system which is terrific. But economically this is becoming devastating quickly, hell the entire city of Las Vegas is probably going to be unemployed in a month.

I think I really didn’t expect it all to wind up being this horrifying. I figured it’d be tough, but we’re staring at thousands dead and an economic depression. Just think it’s time to expect there is no win in this battle

[Stebo]

1 hour ago, nwohweather said:

Yeah it’s probably time to rip the band-aid off and reopen. We’ve stopped it from destroying our health system which is terrific. But economically this is becoming devastating quickly, hell the entire city of Las Vegas is probably going to be unemployed in a month.

I think I really didn’t expect it all to wind up being this horrifying. I figured it’d be tough, but we’re staring at thousands dead and an economic depression. Just think it’s time to expect there is no win in this battle

Yeah gotta save the money, wont someone please think of the money!!!!

Also what you are seeing is a product of staying at home and social distancing working. If none of that was put in place what you're seeing in New York would have been every major city in this country.

[Jackstraw]

10 hours ago, Hoosier said:

Also concerned about the multi-week period of significant differences in restrictions between Illinois and Indiana (since the Illinois stay at home goes until the end of May), especially for areas up and down the IL/IN border and in particular for Lake county Indiana since we have Cook county next door.  Granted we already get a lot of Illinois people coming across the border for gas and other things (there have been times when I have seen more Illinois plates than Indiana plates at gas stations just inside the Indiana border lol) but now we will have a situation where stores and malls that have been closed for several weeks will be open in Indiana but not in Illinois.  

I'll tell ya one thing.  Have done take out and drive through while all this has been going on, but you couldn't pay me to dine inside at a restaurant for the foreseeable future.  No thanks. 

  Yeah, you won't see me in a restaurant until 2021 and I'm still an active member in the NRA (no not that one).  It was interesting that Holcomb said he had a call with the governors of KY and OH earlier in the day but not with IL or MI (although he did say they notified the latter states of IN's intentions early Fri.)

  So unless I'm missing something, I have not seen a new executive order on the IN corona page.  In the past when the existing orders were extended there was a new executive order that superseded the current one.  All I'm seeing is references to the backontrack.in.gov webpage.  Such a reversal in direction I would assume would require a new executive order.  I was hoping to be able to read that to see the finer points of how we move forward instead of a PP presentation.  The current executive order expired at midnight Thurs. 

  Some might think I'm nit picking but without a new executive order IN has now entered the foggy world of guidelines.  Not like we weren't there already. Technically, the IDOH was entrusted with enforcement of the restrictions from day one, and only with investigative power.  None of these restrictions were technically law except for some of the business restrictions (which fell underneath the INDOH.  They basically changed the rules that health inspectors use when they inspect your business).  People could congregate in groups in someones back yard (and they did) without fear of law enforcement dispersing or throwing them in jail (which really makes me wonder about these extremely small numbers of protestors, against what?). 

  I digress, easy to find rabbit holes in all of this lol.  I guess my point is, technically the previous executive order and all that was in it has been allowed to expire.  The current stage 2 guidelines don't kick in until Monday.  Is there technically a free for all this weekend?  I mean "technically" without official public notification every restaurant in the state could open up this weekend.  If I'm missing the legal document please point me to it.  I thought IN was being a little smart about this but  my state just took me for a walk and now all I have is a leash and no hand and I want to chase a rabbit

[Hoosier]

51 minutes ago, Jackstraw said:

  Yeah, you won't see me in a restaurant until 2021 and I'm still an active member in the NRA (no not that one).  It was interesting that Holcomb said he had a call with the governors of KY and OH earlier in the day but not with IL or MI (although he did say they notified the latter states of IN's intentions early Fri.)

  So unless I'm missing something, I have not seen a new executive order on the IN corona page.  In the past when the existing orders were extended there was a new executive order that superseded the current one.  All I'm seeing is references to the backontrack.in.gov webpage.  Such a reversal in direction I would assume would require a new executive order.  I was hoping to be able to read that to see the finer points of how we move forward instead of a PP presentation.  The current executive order expired at midnight Thurs. 

  Some might think I'm nit picking but without a new executive order IN has now entered the foggy world of guidelines.  Not like we weren't there already. Technically, the IDOH was entrusted with enforcement of the restrictions from day one, and only with investigative power.  None of these restrictions were technically law except for some of the business restrictions (which fell underneath the INDOH.  They basically changed the rules that health inspectors use when they inspect your business).  People could congregate in groups in someones back yard (and they did) without fear of law enforcement dispersing or throwing them in jail (which really makes me wonder about these extremely small numbers of protestors, against what?). 

  I digress, easy to find rabbit holes in all of this lol.  I guess my point is, technically the previous executive order and all that was in it has been allowed to expire.  The current stage 2 guidelines don't kick in until Monday.  Is there technically a free for all this weekend?  I mean "technically" without official public notification every restaurant in the state could open up this weekend.  If I'm missing the legal document please point me to it.  I thought IN was being a little smart about this but  my state just took me for a walk and now all I have is a leash and no hand and I want to chase a rabbit

Yeah I was wondering the same thing about this weekend.  If the reopening starts May 4, might as well have just backed it up to May 2.

[Baum]

Than there is this idiot:

https://youtu.be/28I5WyLp15o

[Snownado]

6 hours ago, Jackstraw said:

  Yeah, you won't see me in a restaurant until 2021 and I'm still an active member in the NRA (no not that one).  It was interesting that Holcomb said he had a call with the governors of KY and OH earlier in the day but not with IL or MI (although he did say they notified the latter states of IN's intentions early Fri.)

  So unless I'm missing something, I have not seen a new executive order on the IN corona page.  In the past when the existing orders were extended there was a new executive order that superseded the current one.  All I'm seeing is references to the backontrack.in.gov webpage.  Such a reversal in direction I would assume would require a new executive order.  I was hoping to be able to read that to see the finer points of how we move forward instead of a PP presentation.  The current executive order expired at midnight Thurs. 

  Some might think I'm nit picking but without a new executive order IN has now entered the foggy world of guidelines.  Not like we weren't there already. Technically, the IDOH was entrusted with enforcement of the restrictions from day one, and only with investigative power.  None of these restrictions were technically law except for some of the business restrictions (which fell underneath the INDOH.  They basically changed the rules that health inspectors use when they inspect your business).  People could congregate in groups in someones back yard (and they did) without fear of law enforcement dispersing or throwing them in jail (which really makes me wonder about these extremely small numbers of protestors, against what?). 

  I digress, easy to find rabbit holes in all of this lol.  I guess my point is, technically the previous executive order and all that was in it has been allowed to expire.  The current stage 2 guidelines don't kick in until Monday.  Is there technically a free for all this weekend?  I mean "technically" without official public notification every restaurant in the state could open up this weekend.  If I'm missing the legal document please point me to it.  I thought IN was being a little smart about this but  my state just took me for a walk and now all I have is a leash and no hand and I want to chase a rabbit

You seriously wont go inside a restaurant until next year ? Wow.

[nwohweather]

Yeah gotta save the money, wont someone please think of the money!!!!
Also what you are seeing is a product of staying at home and social distancing working. If none of that was put in place what you're seeing in New York would have been every major city in this country.

Oh I agree with social distancing working! But all of precautions we have currently I think will limit exponential growth until we have a vaccine. Also our therapy options have improved via Resmidvir and hospital capacity remains quite safe.

But yes you do have to think of the money as well. We have 30 MILLION people unemployed right now and many businesses shuttered. Our economy is not able to manufacture and sell goods well at all currently, and we’re about to see a foreclosure wave that will shock the country.

[Hoosier]

3 hours ago, Snownado said:

You seriously wont go inside a restaurant until next year ? Wow.

I don't blame him at all.  Too much potential to catch it, especially once the rules on restaurant capacity reach 50% and then 75%.

I'd feel better about dining outdoors.  

[nwohweather]

I don't blame him at all.  Too much potential to catch it, especially once the rules on restaurant capacity reach 50% and then 75%.
I'd feel better about dining outdoors.  

That’s what SC is allowing. Outdoor dining only which I think is the right move

[Snownado]

52 minutes ago, nwohweather said:

That’s what SC is allowing. Outdoor dining only which I think is the right move

Yeah it's the right move for now. Obviously i think indoor dining will become more widespread as time goes on.

[RobertSul]

1 hour ago, nwohweather said:

That’s what SC is allowing. Outdoor dining only which I think is the right move

Especially as temperatures are warming up, this will be a great alternative. Hopefully they’ll also provide covering for rain. 

[Guest ovweather]

According to the White House’s “Operation Warp Speed,” a vaccine will be ready this fall with 100 million doses in November, 200 million in December, and 300 million in January, so a year from now this will all be a distant memory.  

[Hoosier]

27 minutes ago, ovweather said:

According to the White House’s “Operation Warp Speed,” a vaccine will be ready this fall with 100 million doses in November, 200 million in December, and 300 million in January, so a year from now this will all be a distant memory.  

That is so ridiculously fast compared to how long it normally takes.  I am not anti-vaxx but I'd be leery about lining up for THIS one right away if it really comes out that soon.  Takes quite a while to properly establish safety and efficacy.

[Stebo]

18 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

That is so ridiculously fast compared to how long it normally takes.  I am not anti-vaxx but I'd be leery about lining up for THIS one right away if it really comes out that soon.  Takes quite a while to properly establish safety and efficacy.

Based upon every other promise they have given I would be completely skeptical of any timeline they are projecting.

[madwx]

5 hours ago, Stebo said:

Based upon every other promise they have given I would be completely skeptical of any timeline they are projecting.

Yeah I remember when everyone could get a test in March.  And 60 million antibody tests would be available by the end of April.  Lots of people make lots of promises that are rarely fulfilled 

[Guest ovweather]

2 hours ago, Hoosier said:

That is so ridiculously fast compared to how long it normally takes.  I am not anti-vaxx but I'd be leery about lining up for THIS one right away if it really comes out that soon.  Takes quite a while to properly establish safety and efficacy.

It’s simply a re-election campaign ploy by the current administration. 100 million vaccines ready by November just in time for the election... hmmm.

Scientific logic says that going from no vaccine for a new virus to vaccinating basically the entire US population against said new virus in less than a year is impossible, not to mention probably not safe.

[nwohweather]

Based upon every other promise they have given I would be completely skeptical of any timeline they are projecting.

Based on every project ever lol. I can’t name one work project ever that came in perfectly on time

[Stebo]

35 minutes ago, nwohweather said:

Based on every project ever lol. I can’t name one work project ever that came in perfectly on time

It isn't about perfection... they haven't been close to any projection in testing. How can they project millions of vaccines when there isn't even a vaccine found yet? It's one thing to be optimistic but this is just unfounded guessing by them at best and at worst lying.

[Jackstraw]

They don't have one for SARS or MERS yet, at least not a proven one.  And thats damn near 20 and 10 years respectively.  There are some iffy treatments, but containment was the key to both of them.

[Jackstraw]

These coronaviruses aren't smallpox or polio.  They are mRNA viruses, you can't just shoot dead or semi dead virus in someone to build immunity.  People really need to understand, this is the most contagious coronavirus we've ever seen, and THAT is the problem in the long run.

[Hoosier]

58 minutes ago, Jackstraw said:

They don't have one for SARS or MERS yet, at least not a proven one.  And thats damn near 20 and 10 years respectively.  There are some iffy treatments, but containment was the key to both of them.

I was under the impression that they basically stopped trying for a SARS and MERS vaccine since they were contained.  No?

[Jackstraw]

1 hour ago, Hoosier said:

I was under the impression that they basically stopped trying for a SARS and MERS vaccine since they were contained.  No?

Partly true.  There were definitely funding issues for continued research into vaccines for both due to the complexities of developing a vaccine against this kind of virus and of course profitability..  While flu viruses are similar to coronaviruses, the reason there's a flu vaccine every year is we have decades of vaccines to work off of and of course one can make a ton of money.  Vaccines for SARS and MERS were being researched, with some success in animal trials, but not without some severe side effects.  The research hasn't stopped.  Funding may be part of it, but it's also the nature of these viruses that make it so difficult.  I guess one could say it would be difficult to do human trials on a virus that's been "contained" because of the danger involved and probably couldn't make a buck on it (until now).  MERS was thought to have been contained until 2015 when it reared it's head in South Korea so we've known these are lurking.  Just as the argument we're having right now in this country about exposure and death vs the economy, I find it very ironic that a limiting factor in development of some sort of vaccine for Cov2 was due to the fact that SARS and MERS didn't kill a lot of folks therefore wasn't economically profitable.  It's a dark comedic tragedy.

https://www.bcm.edu/departments/molecular-virology-and-microbiology/emerging-infections-and-biodefense/sars-virus

[Sciascia]

Over the past 7 days, Illinois has tested 98,279 people, with 16,728 positive cases (17%). Total current rate of positive cases is at 19.5%.

I don’t know if some people realize that those are 16,728 *currently* contagious/sick people. That amount of people is 40% of the capacity at Wrigley Field. And yeah, the majority of them will recover and be fine; but things are still a bit tricky right now to trust re-opening. I think it’s too easy to just pass off the daily numbers as being statistics instead of actual contagious people that could walk into a crowd & make things worse.

I feel for those that want some sense of normalcy; I want it too. I feel so bad for my Greek wife who lost her big family birthday trip to Greece. And good Lord, do I miss baseball. But we need some more time distanced. Just my 2 cents.

[Hoosier]

On 4/23/2020 at 11:31 PM, Hoosier said:

Another thing that stands out is the very low number of cases in Tippecanoe county/Lafayette area.  Even with clearing out Purdue, there is still a pretty sizable population there.  And the testing rate per 10000 people there (blue map below) has been better than many other counties in the state.

I have noticed that cases seem to be growing pretty quickly around LAF now (total number still relatively modest though).  Perhaps it is the tentacles reaching out from Cass county or perhaps not, but it is hard to keep this thing down.  It is almost like when someone being chased by bees goes into the water and the bees wait for them to come up for air.  You can't keep yourself under water forever. 

[Hoosier]

Has anyone been checking into getting the antibody test?  I am thinking about getting one but may wait a bit.  I know some of them haven't been very reliable.  

As mentioned a while back, I was sick in March with a number of the symptoms and am curious to see if that's what it was.  Thing is that I was prescribed Azithromycin and saw a pretty rapid improvement after starting it, except for some shortness of breath which lingered longer.  To me that would point to it being something other than covid unless I was on the verge of getting over it anyway.  

[CoachLB]

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

[Guest ovweather]

373 employees at Triumph Foods (pork processing) in Missouri have tested positive but none are exhibiting any symptoms. You would think at least a few would be exhibiting some symptoms, no? The million dollar question continues to be just how many people in the US and worldwide have already been exposed to Covid and would have tested positive at some point over the past few months despite being asymptomatic? There's some serious holes in the data that need to be filled in order to truly understand the extent of the virus. Again, if testing was more readily available, in other words if every single person could get tested or get an accurate antibody test, only then can we fill these holes and not guess or rely on computer models.

[Hoosier]

5 minutes ago, ovweather said:

373 employees at Triumph Foods (pork processing) in Missouri have tested positive but none are exhibiting any symptoms. You would think at least a few would be exhibiting some symptoms, no? The million dollar question continues to be just how many people in the US and worldwide have already been exposed to Covid and would have tested positive at some point over the past few months despite being asymptomatic? There's some serious holes in the data that need to be filled in order to truly understand the extent of the virus. Again, if testing was more readily available, in other words if every single person could get tested or get an accurate antibody test, only then can we fill these holes and not guess or rely on computer models.

Was there a sick employee there that prompted the other employees to get tested?  Seems very unlikely that it will remain 0 for 373 on having symptoms. 

[Guest ovweather]

1 hour ago, Hoosier said:

Was there a sick employee there that prompted the other employees to get tested?  Seems very unlikely that it will remain 0 for 373 on having symptoms. 

According to the article on CNN.com, all 2000 employees at the plant were offered testing after it was made available to them by a partnership between the state health department and the local health department. There are obvious gaps in the news story as it never does mention if anyone was ever sick early on.

[RogueWaves]

On 5/2/2020 at 7:54 AM, Baum said:

Than there is this idiot:

https://youtu.be/28I5WyLp15o

He may be an idiot but on this his stance is shared by many who understand how the human immune system functions. Those compromised, or too scared should remain in their bubbles. Everyone else that can should be back to business. Strengthening one's immune defense against disease is another side of the coin getting very little air time. Just like the rest of western medicine..we wait for a pill from big pharma.