February Banter 2020

[psuhoffman]

8 hours ago, RDM said:

Interesting thread about the altitude and folks getting sick.  How is the difficulty of the runs at JH?  I've heard JH vies with Whistler Blackcomb BC for having the most vertical in North America - around 4000' or so, yes?  The snow looks great.  The runs appear fairly flat cruiser type runs for a large part.  Like the part in the trees - a past favorite of mine.  

JH is actually quite steep. Hard to convey on video because the camera is also angled downhill giving the illusion that it’s flat.  Corbett’s was closed while I was there. Some of the chutes that we’re open we’re plenty steep enough for me. If you take a line down rendevous bowl then the hobacks you get 4000 feet of consistent perfect steep pitch with just a small flat area in the middle.  JH has plenty of nice tree stashed. If you like trees Revelstoke is the place. I’m a tree skier myself. Nothing compares to their glade terrain.  Revelstoke actually has the most vertical at over 5000 but the bottom 1000 or so is low elevation and useless. Most don’t even ski it and use the gondola connection to get down. So if you remove that JH and Revelstoke are similar wrt real vertical. 

One difference is the terrain layout. Revy is one massive mountain with more consistent lines down. JH is a ridge line with more gullies and ridges and horizontal traversing to get to one area or another. Both have plenty of advanced epic terrain. 

[Bob Chill]

10 hours ago, jaydreb said:

We took a trip to Beaver Creek a few years ago and I’ll admit that I didn’t feel great for the first 24 hours or so, even at the base of the lifts.  This was at about 8100 feet.  I was fine after a day or so.  I know Breck is even higher.  

I think everyone deals with some sort of effect. I def did when I moved there. The problem with tourists is they are running on fumes from travel and excitement and do ill advised things like start drinking immediately. 

One of the things that was really cool when travelling back east after spending a year up high was your alcohol tolerance is beast mode and so is your cardio system. Blood is loaded up to deal with low oxygen living and when you hit sea level it feels a little superhuman. 

[The Dude]

9 hours ago, yoda said:

Seems that shine on Samsonov is slowly wearing off

He was very strong last night.  Unless you were expecting him to score as well.

[dallen7908]

I'm heading to Colorado next week for a meeting followed by my third snow chase of the winter.  My first two were North Conway, NH and Davis, WV.  Any suggestions as to a good place to XC ski in the mountains west of the Denver/Boulder area?

[wxdude64]

34 minutes ago, Bob Chill said:

I think everyone deals with some sort of effect. I def did when I moved there. The problem with tourists is they are running on fumes from travel and excitement and do ill advised things like start drinking immediately. 

One of the things that was really cool when travelling back east after spending a year up high was your alcohol tolerance is beast mode and so is your cardio system. Blood is loaded up to deal with low oxygen living and when you hit sea level it feels a little superhuman. 

Truth!! I am out seeing son 25-35 days a year since he moved out there. I can tell a small difference after 10-14 days up that high to coming back east. Only time I ever 'felt bad' from the elevation was the year we climbed Quandary (14000+) on the 2nd day after I arrived. Made it but had to take several breaks last 500-800 of vertical.

[wxdude64]

34 minutes ago, dallen7908 said:

I'm heading to Colorado next week for a meeting followed by my third snow chase of the winter.  My first two were North Conway, NH and Davis, WV.  Any suggestions as to a good place to XC ski in the mountains west of the Denver/Boulder area?

I'd definitely pick an actual XC place as opposed to just taking off for the mountains. Summit county and surrounding areas have had 6-9 FEET of snow this month, I am sure the avalanche danger is quite high. On plus side to that Arapohoe is already talking about a closing AFTER July 4th again.

[Chris78]

1 hour ago, The Dude said:

He was very strong last night.  Unless you were expecting him to score as well.

Hard to win when our team scores 0 goals lol.

[showmethesnow]

Saw a strange white substance falling out of the sky an hour or so ago and am not sure what to make of it.. Tried to report it to the authorities and find out if I was in any danger but they hung up on me. Can't understand why the called me a whacko before they hung up though.

[RDM]

1 hour ago, psuhoffman said:

JH is actually quite steep. Hard to convey on video because the camera is also angled downhill giving the illusion that it’s flat.  Corbett’s was closed while I was there. Some of the chutes that we’re open we’re plenty steep enough for me. If you take a line down rendevous bowl then the hobacks you get 4000 feet of consistent perfect steep pitch with just a small flat area in the middle.  JH has plenty of nice tree stashed. If you like trees Revelstoke is the place. I’m a tree skier myself. Nothing compares to their glade terrain.  Revelstoke actually has the most vertical at over 5000 but the bottom 1000 or so is low elevation and useless. Most don’t even ski it and use the gondola connection to get down. So if you remove that JH and Revelstoke are similar wrt real vertical. 

One difference is the terrain layout. Revy is one massive mountain with more consistent lines down. JH is a ridge line with more gullies and ridges and horizontal traversing to get to one area or another. Both have plenty of advanced epic terrain. 

Sounds great.  I've heard of Corbett's in ski magazines.  Sounds something like the run from the backside of Zermatt, Switzerland down to Cervina, Italy.  Hands down THE best run I've ever been on, anyplace, ever.  (although some of the heli-ski runs in NZ were comparable).  The run to Cervina is several thousand feet of vertical on a somewhat consistent slope about 100-150 yds wide.  It's wide enough it doesn't get carved up.  I love long wide runs with about a 20 degree slope.  Often tele-ski w/o poles and get down low almost like a snowboarder.  Use hard shell kneepads to protect from hard impact.  My tele-boards are old skinny boards - 205's.  They look way out of place with today's short-wide carving skis.  Can't use wide carving skis because I still use leather tele boots - can strap ice crampons on them and/or tele cleats to climb steep slopes where skins alone are not enough.

Making me get the itch to get back out again, but at nearly 60, not sure my knees will take it...   

[RDM]

26 minutes ago, WxWatcher007 said:

I earned some chaser points with this drive.

 

I'm schizophrenic in how to respond.  One part of me says "Awesome!" and the other part is jealous as hell and has nothing but contempt for how awful this year has been...  So close, but so far away.   

The mere fact the LES machine is in high gear the end of Feb, due to the lack of anything frozen on Erie and Ontario, is more testimony to this year's lack of cold.  Normally the LES machine dies down in Dec or early Jan as the lakes freeze over or at least the water temp cools.  Water temps in Erie are several degrees warmer than normal which is helping fuel the fetch.  My relatives back Dayton, Ohio even got some LES squalls yesterday off of lake Michigan.  Very rare for this time of year.

Enjoy the spectacle up there and please keep the videos coming....  

[Bob Chill]

2 hours ago, wxdude64 said:

Truth!! I am out seeing son 25-35 days a year since he moved out there. I can tell a small difference after 10-14 days up that high to coming back east. Only time I ever 'felt bad' from the elevation was the year we climbed Quandary (14000+) on the 2nd day after I arrived. Made it but had to take several breaks last 500-800 of vertical.

Hiking high elevations can be shocking. Getting up to 12k feet is pretty easy. Even lowlanders can do it with little issue. The climb from 12k-13k' takes on a totally new personality. You start having to pace your steps depending on heart rate and steepness. It took me 2 full seasons of "earning turns" to get really fast between 12-13k. Then comes 13k-14k... Completely different experience than the previous 1k'. Especially >35 degree slope angle.

I climbed Torres with a group of 6 just once in the spring of 96 (mid may) to ski Dead Dog Couloir and we took a very direct route. My heart was literally a bass drum in my ears running between 180-200bpm for over an hour straight. 10 steps pause - 10 steps pause. I'd be scared to do it now that I'm much older. Kids can have that S now. 

There are 2 ways up Dead Dog. The red line can be easier with steepness but very difficult depending on snow conditions. We went straight up where you can see the boot pack and group climbing in the pic below. You can do the much easier ridge hike in the summer. During the spring there can be big cornice crossings that I want no part of. Not trying to fall down a giant face with a small building sized cornice chasing me. LOL

 

I only have old school crappy film pictures so these pics are just for reference. These are not mine. If you can do Qaundary you can do Torres no problem at all. IIRC it's just about 8 miles out and back from the I70 trailhead with 3400' elev gain. Been a long time though... When we skied it we got snowmobile rides up a gulch for much faster/easier access. During the summer the gulch requires a pretty strong 4x4 with good clearance to take the shortcut. Again, all this is off old memories. 

 

[psuhoffman]

58 minutes ago, RDM said:

Sounds great.  I've heard of Corbett's in ski magazines.  Sounds something like the run from the backside of Zermatt, Switzerland down to Cervina, Italy.  Hands down THE best run I've ever been on, anyplace, ever.  (although some of the heli-ski runs in NZ were comparable).  The run to Cervina is several thousand feet of vertical on a somewhat consistent slope about 100-150 yds wide.  It's wide enough it doesn't get carved up.  I love long wide runs with about a 20 degree slope.  Often tele-ski w/o poles and get down low almost like a snowboarder.  Use hard shell kneepads to protect from hard impact.  My tele-boards are old skinny boards - 205's.  They look way out of place with today's short-wide carving skis.  Can't use wide carving skis because I still use leather tele boots - can strap ice crampons on them and/or tele cleats to climb steep slopes where skins alone are not enough.

Making me get the itch to get back out again, but at nearly 60, not sure my knees will take it...   

When I was in Revelstoke years ago I met a local riding the lift who was in his 60s and was looking for someone to go into the backcountry with.  He showed me some pretty awesome terrain and he was still carving it up at his age.  We did 3 awesome runs down the backside of the resort and then we had a few beers while he waxed our skis for the next day.  The locals in that part of BC have always been friendly.    One trip the credit card system was having issues and cards wouldn't work and the people behind me in line took care of my lunch.   

[Bob Chill]

2 hours ago, wxdude64 said:

Truth!! I am out seeing son 25-35 days a year since he moved out there. I can tell a small difference after 10-14 days up that high to coming back east. Only time I ever 'felt bad' from the elevation was the year we climbed Quandary (14000+) on the 2nd day after I arrived. Made it but had to take several breaks last 500-800 of vertical.

one more thing... The fact that you are knocking down fourteeners at this point in your life is very impressive and inspiring. I did Old Rag a few weeks back and was quickly reminded that I need more exercise. LOL

[nw baltimore wx]

20 minutes ago, Bob Chill said:

one more thing... The fact that you are knocking down fourteeners at this point in your life is very impressive and inspiring. I did Old Rag a few weeks back and was quickly reminded that I need more exercise. LOL

Did you hit up Copper Fox?  Good reward for a good hike.

[Bob Chill]

34 minutes ago, nw baltimore wx said:

Did you hit up Copper Fox?  Good reward for a good hike.

After many years of imbibing I needed to get myself into shape so I haven't had a drink in almost 3 years. Last time I went to Copper Fox I bought a bottle of their Rye and drank half shortly after. lol. Good stuff!

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

3 hours ago, WxWatcher007 said:

Watertown delivers again 

 

Awesome stuff, @WxWatcher007!!  Great photos and videos, it's really cool you were able to "chase" that remarkable event.  Thanks for sharing!!  But dayum, does that ever make me miss lake effect snows!!  Grew up with that in northeast Ohio, lots of fun and some of the most amazing snow rates I've seen.

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

2 hours ago, RDM said:

I'm schizophrenic in how to respond.  One part of me says "Awesome!" and the other part is jealous as hell and has nothing but contempt for how awful this year has been...  So close, but so far away.   

The mere fact the LES machine is in high gear the end of Feb, due to the lack of anything frozen on Erie and Ontario, is more testimony to this year's lack of cold.  Normally the LES machine dies down in Dec or early Jan as the lakes freeze over or at least the water temp cools.  Water temps in Erie are several degrees warmer than normal which is helping fuel the fetch.  My relatives back Dayton, Ohio even got some LES squalls yesterday off of lake Michigan.  Very rare for this time of year.

Enjoy the spectacle up there and please keep the videos coming....  

Yup, the relative warmth this year certainly has kept the lake effect machine running more than usual.  Lake Erie nearly always gets decent ice cover at some point, I think this year was very little if any?  Growing up, I distinctly remember a "lull" in lake effect snows in the Cleveland area from about the 2nd week of January through most or all of February, due to ice on Lake Erie.  Then it would start back up again in March during cold outbreaks when the ice began to let up (November-December were also good for that!).

[RDM]

1 hour ago, Always in Zugzwang said:

Yup, the relative warmth this year certainly has kept the lake effect machine running more than usual.  Lake Erie nearly always gets decent ice cover at some point, I think this year was very little if any?  Growing up, I distinctly remember a "lull" in lake effect snows in the Cleveland area from about the 2nd week of January through most or all of February, due to ice on Lake Erie.  Then it would start back up again in March during cold outbreaks when the ice began to let up (November-December were also good for that!).

That's about the annual LES schedule I remember too growing up.  Michigan would freeze over earlier than Erie, which would shut off our options for getting squalls where I lived.  Even down by Dayton we'd sometimes pickup some decent LES qualms that could accumulate over a day or two, even given the distance from the GLs.   Not sure, but I don't think Erie froze over solid this year.  

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

33 minutes ago, RDM said:

That's about the annual LES schedule I remember too growing up.  Michigan would freeze over earlier than Erie, which would shut off our options for getting squalls where I lived.  Even down by Dayton we'd sometimes pickup some decent LES qualms that could accumulate over a day or two, even given the distance from the GLs.   Not sure, but I don't think Erie froze over solid this year.  

Yeah, with the right wind, those Lake Michigan streamers can get all the way to southwest and central Ohio!  Cool to see on radar when it happens.

I would doubt Lake Erie froze over this year, and would not be surprised if it had far less ice than usual.  I don't recall the stats, but it doesn't always freeze completely even most years, but a good percentage of it typically does (it's the shallowest of all the Lakes!).  Of course, I remember back during the record cold January 1977, a couple bozos decided to "walk across the lake" from Ohio to Canada, as it was definitely frozen over that year.  What they didn't realize is that even frozen over and record cold, the ice is still thin in the middle part of the lake and they got trapped.  I think an ice cutter had to go in there to rescue them, maybe they were the wiser for it afterward!  Oh, and then there's the annual Polar Bear Club that picks what normally is one of the coldest days of the year...and these guys jump into Lake Erie with only swim trunks on.  I'm sure tons of alcohol beforehand kept them warm enough, hahaha!  Those crazy Ohioans!!!

[RDM]

5 minutes ago, Always in Zugzwang said:

Yeah, with the right wind, those Lake Michigan streamers can get all the way to southwest and central Ohio!  Cool to see on radar when it happens.

I would doubt Lake Erie froze over this year, and would not be surprised if it had far less ice than usual.  I don't recall the stats, but it doesn't always freeze completely even most years, but a good percentage of it typically does (it's the shallowest of all the Lakes!).  Of course, I remember back during the record cold January 1977, a couple bozos decided to "walk across the lake" from Ohio to Canada, as it was definitely frozen over that year.  What they didn't realize is that even frozen over and record cold, the ice is still thin in the middle part of the lake and they got trapped.  I think an ice cutter had to go in there to rescue them, maybe they were the wiser for it afterward!  Oh, and then there's the annual Polar Bear Club that picks what normally is one of the coldest days of the year...and these guys jump into Lake Erie with only swim trunks on.  I'm sure tons of alcohol beforehand kept them warm enough, hahaha!  Those crazy Ohioans!!!

Haha - believe it or not, I remember that story in 77.  Remember the cutter having to go out after them when the ice they were on broke off and stranded them.  I think we had around -28F IVO Dayton.  We never got above freezing nearly the entire month of Jan.  I

The cold in 77 raised havoc with municipal infrastructure too.  In Ohio building code for water lines and building footers is 4 feet below grade to help avoid frost heave, vice 2 feet below grade around here.  That year the frost line got down way below 4 feet, which cracked foundations and burst water mains.  Remember the facilities guys in our little town had constant issues repairing busted mains, and the flooding that occurred.  The elevated water tower in town froze over too, which had never happened before (according to the really old timers).  The overflow nearly destroyed a couple nearby homes.  The impact of extreme temps as you approach or exceed -30F can be surprising.  Then the year after 77 we had the grand ole blizzard of 78....  

[JakkelWx]

I usually drink Blue Moon once in a while.

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

13 minutes ago, RDM said:

Haha - believe it or not, I remember that story in 77.  Remember the cutter having to go out after them when the ice they were on broke off and stranded them.  I think we had around -28F IVO Dayton.  We never got above freezing nearly the entire month of Jan.  I

The cold in 77 raised havoc with municipal infrastructure too.  In Ohio building code for water lines and building footers is 4 feet below grade to help avoid frost heave, vice 2 feet below grade around here.  That year the frost line got down way below 4 feet, which cracked foundations and burst water mains.  Remember the facilities guys in our little town had constant issues repairing busted mains, and the flooding that occurred.  The elevated water tower in town froze over too, which had never happened before (according to the really old timers).  The overflow nearly destroyed a couple nearby homes.  The impact of extreme temps as you approach or exceed -30F can be surprising.  Then the year after 77 we had the grand ole blizzard of 78....  

Yeah, Jan '77 was absolutely brutal state-wide (hell, for a wide region outside there too!).  Even for someone who likes cold and snow, it was a bit much!  I recall Cleveland did not go above freezing from about the last week of December through the first week of February.  I think that was true for the entire state pretty much.  And several below zero days/nights through that time for sure.  We didn't get an excessive amount of snow, but whatever fell collected and stuck around for a good, long time.  Average temperature at KCLE for that January was 11 degrees!  That's still their coldest January and coldest month on record.  Lots of days off from school too, I remember.  They were putting sand and crushed coal on the roads simply because it was too cold for regular salt to do any good, and at least that gave you some traction.

[MillvilleWx]

10 minutes ago, WxWatcher007 said:

So tired, but what an awesome day.

 

Unreal. I would LOVE to catch a LES event up there during a major setup. I'd be in heaven. Drove through Watertown before. Beautiful area and people are very friendly and resilient given the conditions up there during the winter. 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Very cool, @WxWatcher007!  And like I said before, great photos/videos...what an event to experience!  Now...get back home safely!

(ETA:  I particularly liked the "Park Farther Walk More" sign, buried in snow!!  Just seems a bit ironic somehow, haha!)

[rclab]

37 minutes ago, WxWatcher007 said:

So tired, but what an awesome day.

 

Every photo a potential Christmas card. Magnificent. Be well and safe, as always .....

[George BM]

@WxWatcher007 What is your guesstimate of the maximum snowfall rates that you've encountered up their over the past few days?

Have you heard any thunder or seen any lightning?

[CAPE]

I need to move so bad.

This area really is pathetic for a snow lover. Once every few years we get a decent winter.

[Stormpc]

7 minutes ago, C.A.P.E. said:

I need to move so bad.

This area really is pathetic for a snow lover. Once every few years we get a decent winter.

I lived in Oswego County for seven years. I am an avid snow lover. I got tired of it. Saw more snow than I ever needed. Was up there during the 1992-1993 season where we had over 300 inches in my area. I decided I couldn't take it anymore and moved down to Arlington the following year. So snow does have a shelf life for sure to some people. Especially when you get too much of it.

[WxUSAF]

JB2 and Tony Pann have basically been snow flurry truthers today 

 

[snownut]

35 minutes ago, Stormpc said:

I lived in Oswego County for seven years. I am an avid snow lover. I got tired of it. Saw more snow than I ever needed. Was up there during the 1992-1993 season where we had over 300 inches in my area. I decided I couldn't take it anymore and moved down to Arlington the following year. So snow does have a shelf life for sure to some people. Especially when you get too much of it.

I totally agree, crazy amounts of snow can totally F-UP productivity and routines. That is why I love having moved close to the Cascades. Crazy amounts of snow a very short drive away.  Love spring time, I can ski in the morning, drive 10 miles to golf at Widgi Creek and drive 10 more miles and mow my grass in shorts and a t-shirt.  Got all the climates here without the damn humidity and bugs.