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January 18th Event


stormtracker
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Just now, Bob Chill said:

Warm front snow struggles to get 10:1 no matter what. High ratio stuff is with ULLs or CCBs. 8:1 is usually a good ratio to set expectations with warm fronts. The beginning can be high ratio but everything starts riming and clumping before pellets. 

People also seem to have thought process that surface temps are the only thing that determines ratios. It is entirely possible (which I know you know) to have poor ratio snow and have the surface be 18 degrees. 

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Warm front snow struggles to get 10:1 no matter what. High ratio stuff is with ULLs or CCBs. 8:1 is usually a good ratio to set expectations with warm fronts. The beginning can be high ratio but everything starts riming and clumping before pellets. 
Are we getting that late feb west track snowstorm we had a few years ago. That was nuts lol
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Just now, Ji said:
4 minutes ago, Bob Chill said:
Warm front snow struggles to get 10:1 no matter what. High ratio stuff is with ULLs or CCBs. 8:1 is usually a good ratio to set expectations with warm fronts. The beginning can be high ratio but everything starts riming and clumping before pellets. 

Are we getting that late feb west track snowstorm we had a few years ago. That was nuts lol

I need to be reminded of which storm that was. I have vague memories of it

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Just now, Ji said:
4 minutes ago, Bob Chill said:
Warm front snow struggles to get 10:1 no matter what. High ratio stuff is with ULLs or CCBs. 8:1 is usually a good ratio to set expectations with warm fronts. The beginning can be high ratio but everything starts riming and clumping before pellets. 

Are we getting that late feb west track snowstorm we had a few years ago. That was nuts lol

That was one for the books. May never happen again. Most of the snow fell in the teens and it never got above freezing. I can't think of a single other west track storm that had temps like that. 

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3 minutes ago, Ji said:
7 minutes ago, Bob Chill said:
Warm front snow struggles to get 10:1 no matter what. High ratio stuff is with ULLs or CCBs. 8:1 is usually a good ratio to set expectations with warm fronts. The beginning can be high ratio but everything starts riming and clumping before pellets. 

Are we getting that late feb west track snowstorm we had a few years ago. That was nuts lol

JB pulled out the 1982 storm which might actually be a good analog other than that was a colder airmass although this one this weekend is pretty decent airmass too. Capital Weather Gang did an article on that storm a while back.

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17 minutes ago, stormtracker said:

Yeah, it is a bit lighter, but for now, I’m more concerned with the cad. 

See that’s where I’m looking at the other ... the cad doesn’t worry me. It’s the depth of that trough in the center of the country. It was deeper this time and the low went north a bit, hence the lighter early precip. Been around long enough to know to not worry about op runs at 5 days, but just being honest the 18z wasn’t the look I had hoped to get.

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3 minutes ago, Bob Chill said:

That was one for the books. May never happen again. Most of the snow fell in the teens and it never got above freezing. I can't think of a single other west track storm that had temps like that. 

Was that the one?  I remember a storm around Feb 20-21, 2015, where the CAD held on longer than expected and we got around 8” before flip to snizzle.  

I think there was a separate storm where snow fell in the teens but we were disappointed because rates were poor (bad snow growth?). 

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That was one for the books. May never happen again. Most of the snow fell in the teens and it never got above freezing. I can't think of a single other west track storm that had temps like that. 
Snow was as heavy at times as the jan 16 blizzard!
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22 minutes ago, Kmlwx said:

People also seem to have thought process that surface temps are the only thing that determines ratios. It is entirely possible (which I know you know) to have poor ratio snow and have the surface be 18 degrees. 

Exaclty. 800mb temps increase throughout the precip during WAA events. As those temps rise snowgrowth changes for the worse. Best dendrites/ratios happen at the beginning and deteriorate. 

Unlike our last warmfront... surface won't be torched and nothing will be lost to rain/melt. Love when snow sticks from the first flake. Less than half of our events are like that 

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2 minutes ago, Bob Chill said:

Exaclty. 800mb temps increase throughout the precip during WAA events. As those temps rise snowgrowth changes for the worse. Best dendrites/ratios happen at the beginning and deteriorate. 

Unlike our last warmfront... surface won't be torched and nothing will be lost to rain/melt. Love when snow sticks from the first flake. Less than half of our events are like that 

Seems like the rare times we do have 18 degree snow, the flake size sucks and it's basically pixie dust, so I agree people have the wrong impression about this. We almost always overestimate ratios here. They seem to usually end up 10:1 or below on average. Only things more overhyped are ice storms and inches-per-hour expectations.

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1 minute ago, PhineasC said:

Seems like the rare times we do have 18 degree snow, the flake size sucks and it's basically pixie dust, so I agree people have the wrong impression about this. We almost always overestimate ratios here. They seem to usually end up 10:1 or below on average. Only things more overhyped are ice storms and inches-per-hour expectations.

Truth. We usually have a long period of "sand" during our legit cold events that don't have strong upper level dynamics. Pretty much my least favorite kind of snow. 

The only time we get really nice 12-15:1 snow is with a classic track miller A and/or solid upper levels. I remember the Feb 14 storm. "Part 1" was full of crappy snow growth and low ratio snow before the sleet show. Later in the day when the ULL passed there was colorado rockies conditions and the surface temps weren't even that cold. Close to freezing iirc. 

Clippers usually have high ratio snowfall but they are also often moisture starved so not very memorable. 

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54 minutes ago, Bob Chill said:

That was one for the books. May never happen again. Most of the snow fell in the teens and it never got above freezing. I can't think of a single other west track storm that had temps like that. 

That was sometime later in Feb. 2015, right?  Extremely cold at the start, we got like 6-8" snow then ice and some rain/drizzle.  But that was only toward late day and at night after many hours of snow.  Yeah, that was quite an unusual setup, not something you get here that often.  Thing is, we weren't done with winter after that event, either (the early March ice then a final moderate snow event was icing...literally!...on the cake of a 4 week period!).

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