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Jan 8th, 2020 Coastal - little critter


Baroclinic Zone
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11 minutes ago, dryslot said:

Fast flow don't allow for much if any amplification, I'm hoping as we move along in Jan it starts to get better.

I honestly have my doubts...

I think we're in sort of uncharted CC waters here... The CC stuff and the expanded Hadley Cell is a pan-systemic, Earth-based problem... it's not a matter of reshuffling the rosby numbers and orienations and so forth.  Even if the latter rouletts its way into a better configuration, does it merely situated over the top of and compress the heights?  It's not like 1990 anymore. We have to contend with ...

This is quick/snap search on the web to serve as primer, but there is a Climate report that links to hundreds of scientifically vetted/apprv paper material that goes into it deeper.

but,   https://www.climatesignals.org/climate-signals/hadley-cell-expansion

means winter be f'ed if one than integrates conceptually into actual Meteorological consequences. This expansion didn't start this year...it's been growing in coherency ...particularly since the mega NINO of the late 1990s...It's almost like that even was a Terran-wide climate threshold point and by subtle geometries, we never really ever settled back/recovered to the previous dynamics.  We are in fact, going up still ever since, and this year ? This is the worse I have consequentially observed the speeding up aspect, yet.   Why would anyone wonder why the big Nino from 3-5 years ago didn't register as obviously in the global circuitry - it's because it's getting f'n burried in already an atmospheric surplus of latent heat in the tropics, so it's not triggering an atmospheric response.  yet, those folks out there keep planning on winters doing a-b-c, because of x-y-z ENSO.  ...it's interestingly debatable...

There are no absolutes - some bigger by proportion anomaly can off-set. But, that by definition is rarefied so - Anyway, suppositional, but if we deal with this shit the rest of the way, I wouldn't be surprised. even if we get lucky ( anyway ) and get clocked once or twice and smugly use that to rationalize things as still being fine ... still doesn't change the reality of what's happening. 

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1 hour ago, STILL N OF PIKE said:

The GFS SE bias at 72 hours on coastals actually works great for this upcoming system. The 12z gfs is likely where the UKIE will wind up at if not more progressive in about 24-36 hours as this flow screams progressive

Be aware of the nw trend but not sure with the fast pac.

1 hour ago, Typhoon Tip said:

Too detailed a perspective - though probably correct nonetheless.

Just say the flow is too fast and the waves can't phase.

That should 'bout do it -

2 storms that have went from a big storm to nothing because of the fast flow.

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31 minutes ago, Typhoon Tip said:

I honestly have my doubts...

I think we're in sort of uncharted CC waters here... The CC stuff and the expanded Hadley Cell is a pan-systemic, Earth-based problem... it's not a matter of reshuffling the rosby numbers and orienations and so forth.  Even if the latter rouletts its way into a better configuration, does it merely situated over the top of and compress the heights?  It's not like 1990 anymore. We have to contend with ...

This is quick/snap search on the web to serve as primer, but there is a Climate report that links to hundreds of scientifically vetted/apprv paper material that goes into it deeper.

but,   https://www.climatesignals.org/climate-signals/hadley-cell-expansion

means winter be f'ed if one than integrates conceptually into actual Meteorological consequences. This expansion didn't start this year...it's been growing in coherency ...particularly since the mega NINO of the late 1990s...It's almost like that even was a Terran-wide climate threshold point and by subtle geometries, we never really ever settled back/recovered to the previous dynamics.  We are in fact, going up still ever since, and this year ? This is the worse I have consequentially observed the speeding up aspect, yet.   Why would anyone wonder why the big Nino from 3-5 years ago didn't register as obviously in the global circuitry - it's because it's getting f'n burried in already an atmospheric surplus of latent heat in the tropics, so it's not triggering an atmospheric response.  yet, those folks out there keep planning on winters doing a-b-c, because of x-y-z ENSO.  ...it's interestingly debatable...

There are no absolutes - some bigger by proportion anomaly can off-set. But, that by definition is rarefied so - Anyway, suppositional, but if we deal with this shit the rest of the way, I wouldn't be surprised. even if we get lucky ( anyway ) and get clocked once or twice and smugly use that to rationalize things as still being fine ... still doesn't change the reality of what's happening. 

SNE has gotten smoked for like 15 years in the snow department though. 

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16 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

There's a 960mb low over Nova Scotia. Fast flow isn't preventing amplification, it's just not amplifying where you want it to.

The irony is that the trend we're seeing is a slower northern stream lead shortwave that is hurting this threat. It is moving slower out of our region despite the fast flow pattern overall...so the particular detail that has changed on this threat versus the 00z runs is something that is working as an opposing force to the fast flow. 

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8 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

Doesn't fit the narrative.  

Yeah I don't get this idea that winters are struggling or going to struggle to produce large snowstorms or prolific snow events....the empirical evidence supports the opposite frankly. Maybe someday it will be true way out into the future.

This is despite also there being empirical evidence that the Hadley cell has expanded...it hasn't stopped huge events of all kinds in clocking us...even this year, we got a meandering slow massive cutoff low that assaulted us for 3 days in early December with two distinct pulses. 

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1 hour ago, Typhoon Tip said:

I honestly have my doubts...

I think we're in sort of uncharted CC waters here... The CC stuff and the expanded Hadley Cell is a pan-systemic, Earth-based problem... it's not a matter of reshuffling the rosby numbers and orienations and so forth.  Even if the latter rouletts its way into a better configuration, does it merely situated over the top of and compress the heights?  It's not like 1990 anymore. We have to contend with ...

This is quick/snap search on the web to serve as primer, but there is a Climate report that links to hundreds of scientifically vetted/apprv paper material that goes into it deeper.

but,   https://www.climatesignals.org/climate-signals/hadley-cell-expansion

means winter be f'ed if one than integrates conceptually into actual Meteorological consequences. This expansion didn't start this year...it's been growing in coherency ...particularly since the mega NINO of the late 1990s...It's almost like that even was a Terran-wide climate threshold point and by subtle geometries, we never really ever settled back/recovered to the previous dynamics.  We are in fact, going up still ever since, and this year ? This is the worse I have consequentially observed the speeding up aspect, yet.   Why would anyone wonder why the big Nino from 3-5 years ago didn't register as obviously in the global circuitry - it's because it's getting f'n burried in already an atmospheric surplus of latent heat in the tropics, so it's not triggering an atmospheric response.  yet, those folks out there keep planning on winters doing a-b-c, because of x-y-z ENSO.  ...it's interestingly debatable...

There are no absolutes - some bigger by proportion anomaly can off-set. But, that by definition is rarefied so - Anyway, suppositional, but if we deal with this shit the rest of the way, I wouldn't be surprised. even if we get lucky ( anyway ) and get clocked once or twice and smugly use that to rationalize things as still being fine ... still doesn't change the reality of what's happening. 

This post is a good example of a relevant inclusion of climate change in a pattern conversation.  Not a scientist but I’ve been wondering about what Tip is saying here

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1 hour ago, OSUmetstud said:

SNE has gotten smoked for like 15 years in the snow department though. 

SNE doesn't mean shit.... You have to take hemisphere's apart in quadrature.

Firstly..  come on

Secondly, the climate models and theoretical physics state we increase PWAT potential in a warming atmosphere such that when sufficiently cold enough, more snow "in the last 15 years" absolutely fits that both science and the narrative ( Steve ) ...

 

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Just now, Typhoon Tip said:

SNE doesn't mean shit.... You have to take hemisphere's apart in quadrature.

Firstly..  come on

Secondly, the climate models and theoretical physics state we increase PWAT potential in a warming atmosphere such that when sufficiently cold enough, more snow "in the last 15 years" absolutely fits that both science and the narrative ( Steve ) ...

 

I know the hadley cell expansion is real. I'm just saying it hasn't detrimentally affected SNE snowfall in any way, yet. 

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1 hour ago, OSUmetstud said:

There's a 960mb low over Nova Scotia. Fast flow isn't preventing amplification, it's just not amplifying where you want it to.

The wave length are unusually long - that is because of the fast flow...

I don't have personal wants where this things take place... but the 960 low, typically is farther west in a "normal " r-wave distribution.

I'm not going to argue what is correct. You guys just don't like the climate implication - that is what is not liked here

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Just now, Typhoon Tip said:

The wave length are unusually long - that is because of the fast flow...

I don't have personal wants where this things take place... but the 960 low, typically is farther west in a "normal " r-wave distribution.

I'm not going to argue what is correct. You guys just don't like the climate implication - that is what is not like here

You are insufferable. I'm not a denier. 

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1 minute ago, OSUmetstud said:

I know the hadley cell expansion is real. I'm just saying it hasn't detrimentally affected SNE snowfall in any way, yet. 

I think it has ...it's helping to snow more hahaha... Probably talking past one another. 

I just got back trying to catch up -

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anyway ... at some point the the increased PWAT probably would mean more rain vs snow, here... but that's who knows how long off.  The conversation I was having with Dryslot wasn't snow specific - we were talking around the fast flow stuff. The stuff about snow is recent and another aspect.

Theoretically ...expanding the HC into winter months should speed up the flow and it's being noted... That's an open shut case.  And, is a climate change implication that Steve hates ... wah wah waah

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Again, ... you guys, we were talking about the speeding up of the flow stuff. 

You guys are exposing your fears and insecurities deviating that into snow so far..just a little here.  ha.  

I couldn't give a shit less about snow. I'm worried about the evidences of CC in HC expansion and objectively attempting to speculate what it means for the future.

Like I said, increasing heat increased PWAT in Earth's geo-physical interplay, so provided there is sufficient cold, ... duh -

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My hope is the people here who are very concerned about man made climate change are doing their part to reduce the carbon they say is the cause. Like not taking planes,  cruises, using all alternative energy, making sure everything they do reduces their carbon footprint. Preach the gospel and act accordingly,  otherwise you are a hypocrite.  I don't deny the earth has warmed.  I just can't explain it away to man made and I am more concerned with air and water pollution as well as gangs, opioids, wars and the sundry more pressing issues. Call me a denier to shut me down, whatever.  You want to raise pseudo science to make a point I will call you out every time. 

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