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January Banter 2020


George BM
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2 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

Don't disagree with your points... and I would also recommend anyone who gets emotionally invested (a lot of people) in day 10 forecasts should take a break... but for me personally I can look at long range...knowing full well how low probability things are, analyze the permutations of where the pattern could be going based on the limited NWP clues and seasonal tendencies, without it driving me crazy when particular results I want do not happen.  But for most who cannot do that...avoiding long range is probably a good idea.  

well yeah, you are an exception. you can look at LR and know whats up without getting overly emotional about it. its the others (cough, Ji) that throw fits because a 10 day pattern didn't work out. its why i dont follow it. i get too invested in 5day threats, couldn't imagine chasing 10 day pattern changes. 

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2 minutes ago, Ralph Wiggum said:

Facts.  But sit back and enjoy the -NAO start to build in the extended. You can actually see it on the LR data. Fits with Tom and a few others' thinking ie blocky Feb and backloaded. 

Maybe...but what you are seeing on the 300 hour guidance is not really a true -NAO or NAM state flip.  It's the ridge under the TPV getting caught in a sqeeze play between the shifting AK vortex and the TPV over and north of Greenland.  I do not see the wave breaking necessary to really force a permanent NAM state change from that...as of yet.  The feature you are seeing isnt bad...and if the AK vortex does drop into central North America that is good... but I am not as hopeful that what your seeing day 15 is the permanent NAM state flip we need.

I do think there is a chance that does happen, but its likely later in Feb or March if at all.  We kind of have a mix of signals...we talked about in the fall how there are so many conflicting signals...but the combinations isnt going our way.  We wondered how it would play out...and we did get a mix of some nino and nina like pattern features.  Problem is the ones that ended up dominant were the worse of both worlds.  We got the ridge near Hawaii and +NAM associated with a nina, and we got some central Canada ridging associated with a nino, but that combination isnt really going to cut it.  

Often in a nina base state winter we do see a more favorable NAM state phase change towards the end.  My feeling is that the shortening wavelengths aid in heat transport and wave breaks attacking and disrupting the stable PV and make it more possible to get some blocking later.  Shorter wavelengths can also make it more possible to get a fluke storm without help up top.  So there is some support to the idea that the current mess we are in could change but that typically doesn't happen until later in Feb or even more common in March.  

 

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4 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

Maybe...but what you are seeing on the 300 hour guidance is not really a true -NAO or NAM state flip.  It's the ridge under the TPV getting caught in a sqeeze play between the shifting AK vortex and the TPV over and north of Greenland.  I do not see the wave breaking necessary to really force a permanent NAM state change from that...as of yet.  The feature you are seeing isnt bad...and if the AK vortex does drop into central North America that is good... but I am not as hopeful that what your seeing day 15 is the permanent NAM state flip we need.

I do think there is a chance that does happen, but its likely later in Feb or March if at all.  We kind of have a mix of signals...we talked about in the fall how there are so many conflicting signals...but the combinations isnt going our way.  We wondered how it would play out...and we did get a mix of some nino and nina like pattern features.  Problem is the ones that ended up dominant were the worse of both worlds.  We got the ridge near Hawaii and +NAM associated with a nina, and we got some central Canada ridging associated with a nino, but that combination isnt really going to cut it.  

Often in a nina base state winter we do see a more favorable NAM state phase change towards the end.  My feeling is that the shortening wavelengths aid in heat transport and wave breaks attacking and disrupting the stable PV and make it more possible to get some blocking later.  Shorter wavelengths can also make it more possible to get a fluke storm without help up top.  So there is some support to the idea that the current mess we are in could change but that typically doesn't happen until later in Feb or even more common in March.  

 

Just a heads up I never said this would be a permanent feature. Brief window for now where my thinking is Feb 7-14 roughly. Maybe as u said later on we can lock it in for a period but its something.

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23 minutes ago, Ji said:

JB cant ever admit defeat...he is taking credit from some of cold now that the southeast is seeing

He has become a total joke.  He was always a hype machine and biased cold/snowy but his discussions and videos used to at least be an interesting and often educational experience. He would discuss different looks and options.  Now all he does is release propaganda where he cherry picks one run that supports his predictions or rants about his anti climate change agenda.  And he has become even more ridiculous in the lengths he will go to support his forecast.  For example using a year like 1978 when we got a cold period during a warm mjo rotation to justify his ideas.  He is either crazy if he really doesn't see the difference between a season with a cold base state, canonical nino, weak PV...and what we have now.   Using weak warm MJO waves in very cold winters is NOT a comp to seeing a super charged warm phase MJO wave in an already warm background state.  So he has either lost it...or he is flat out lying to everyone to support a forecast he knows is going to bust.  

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I was a big JB fan in the 2003-2004 days. I even met him at one of his little get togethers in December 2003. He asked me what school I went to and I said "Rutgers" but I paused because I was nervous and he gave me a look like he didn't believe me. But I got my photo with him which everyone at wright weather made fun of. I can't believe that was 17 years ago. How the heck did that happen? Accuweather went premium and I signed up a few times, but never felt like it was worth the price and then my interest faded off. I remember Jamie O talking about accuweathers true thoughts on all the JB bashing that went on at Easternwx, he reveled that at a GTG but I won't repeat.

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Looking back at previous year NOHRSC Snowfall season maps to this date, we really aren't that far behind our typical climo for most years.  Maybe everyone already knows this, but the data show the vast majority of our snow falls after today's date.  Maybe others can fill in whether in previous years, by this time we could see a near term workable pattern or not, but at least its a small reason to still be optimistic this 'early'.  

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1 minute ago, Maestrobjwa said:

The heck is that from? Lolol

euro ensembles... thing is...the 1-3" of snow it has in our NW regions is not from a lot of small hits...its from a couple massive ones but with the vast majority showing nothing.  So basically there is a very slim chance that if everything went exactly right...they do that by having a perfect H5 track and then bombing a slow moving coastal and deforming the hell out of us...how often does that actually happen here? then maybe we get a big storm...but the high probability is just a rainstorm pretty much everywhere except the highest elevations or north of our region.  

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24 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

euro ensembles... thing is...the 1-3" of snow it has in our NW regions is not from a lot of small hits...its from a couple massive ones but with the vast majority showing nothing.  So basically there is a very slim chance that if everything went exactly right...they do that by having a perfect H5 track and then bombing a slow moving coastal and deforming the hell out of us...how often does that actually happen here? then maybe we get a big storm...but the high probability is just a rainstorm pretty much everywhere except the highest elevations or north of our region.  

And as slim as the chance is, (and I'm kicking myself for still keeping a tiny drop of hope for this thing, lol), I'm wondering if we wouldn't see that the models pickup on that until like...late tomorrow (or Thursday) at the earliest?

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At least in my recent travels, I have seen some "shallow" winter. Dec 17-20th out in the high spots near Boonsboro then up into the Catoctins. A crusty inch with plenty of ice on top. My trip to Lancaster and points north featured plenty of cold, some light sleet/snow coverings and lots of small glaciated piles and icy patches. I stopped at Terrapin on my way home today and did a brisk walk, and the creeks/inland waters were iced over. Nothing on the bay ofc. You take what you can get in a crap winter. Still enjoyable being out in the cold, even if it is fleeting.

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2 hours ago, psuhoffman said:

euro ensembles... thing is...the 1-3" of snow it has in our NW regions is not from a lot of small hits...its from a couple massive ones but with the vast majority showing nothing.  So basically there is a very slim chance that if everything went exactly right...they do that by having a perfect H5 track and then bombing a slow moving coastal and deforming the hell out of us...how often does that actually happen here? then maybe we get a big storm...but the high probability is just a rainstorm pretty much everywhere except the highest elevations or north of our region.  

And that’s why the snowfall mean maps are useless.

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41 minutes ago, losetoa6 said:

Just a thought but I wonder if the other several 3-6 inch plus hits that are literally 40 to 75 miles due north of us have us in the deform band ...but the ensemble member has us a degree or so too warm at  the surface thus...its rain depicted but in reality it coulddddd be fat pasties falling because its heavy rates and dynamics :weenie:

Maybe it looks close for our area but honestly I’m not invested enough to dig that deep. 

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9 minutes ago, Westendsnowguy said:

Your posts are full of useful info, what is your region at 10"+ this season.......

Not trying to be mean dude, and Psu's response pretty much nailed it.

"Over the top" analysis is not intended to, and cannot possibly, yield anything. You don't make many posts. Try harder when you do.

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30 minutes ago, C.A.P.E. said:

Not trying to be mean dude, and Psu's response pretty much nailed it.

"Over the top" analysis is not intended to, and cannot possibly, yield anything. You don't make many posts. Try harder when you do.

When there is something to post about I will.........

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